What exactly was changed on the crafting that made it suck all of a sudden?
I'll try to explain it a little more clearly since the previous explanation was a bit convoluted:
Crafted items are identical to dropped items, EXCEPT for two things: crafted items can be given any trait you have learned, and the set bonuses differ in effect. The logic behind the crafted items still being good, despite being worse on the set bonuses was that you could choose what traits to place, while a dropped item only comes with one trait for a given item set. So say this amazing drop set has a bonus that's incredible, but the trait may stink, while a crafted set could be slotted by you with a trait you wanted instead but with a worse set bonus. However now with traits nerfed so far down, their choice is nearly irrelevant except for one (Impenetrable, which reduces your incoming critical chance to be hit).
I suppose the most pertinent question is whether these recent (?) changes are part of an ongoing balancing cycle or whether they are the "final" status quo ?
But that is not a question anyone but the devs can answer, I'd imagine.
I suppose the most pertinent question is whether these recent (?) changes are part of an ongoing balancing cycle or whether they are the "final" status quo ?
Its an MMO, nothing is ever 'final'. This is something that is easily changed and tweaked over time. Freaking out before the game goes live about endgame gear specs is silly IMO.
I suppose the most pertinent question is whether these recent (?) changes are part of an ongoing balancing cycle or whether they are the "final" status quo ?
Its an MMO, nothing is ever 'final'. This is something that is easily changed and tweaked over time. Freaking out before the game goes live about endgame gear specs is silly IMO.
I'd have to agree with this fellow. If you've played Path of Exile, a patch release for balance regarding Cast when damage taken (CWDT) was made during the game's release (or after open beta). It made a lot of ruckus similar to what is happening on this thread.
SOLA - www.solaguild.com (christian guild. Being christian is not required for membership though)
This is true but would you invest effort and time in crafting as it stands now ?
Yes, if I enjoyed crafting, I would craft. Just like I will play a character I enjoy regardless of current perceptions about overpowered/underpowered because I know that stuff will change many times in the near and distant future. I play what I enjoy and adjust as necessary as the game changes. Doing or not doing something related to the endgame based on how it looks 3 weeks before the game goes live is just plain silly. Its like taking a math calculation result to three decimal points and then making decisions based on that, when the accuracy of the calculation is +/- 10. But if you want to be one of those people who re-roll to be FOTM every month based on the most recent change, well hey its your time and your money.
This is true but would you invest effort and time in crafting as it stands now ?
Because now if you're a high level crafter with lots of traits learned from drops you have something rare to offer people that other crafters don't. If everyone can craft everything, then why do they need you?
By making the best traits from dropped items, crafters will want to snag some good ones to set them apart from the herd.
No I usually craft .In EQ 2 I had crafters on both Freeport and Qeynos and I enjoyed it and it was well worth the effort.Vanguard every crafter except woodworker which actually ended up being my downfall I suffered some tendon problem and stopped playing the game altogether. However crafting can take a toll especially when going in it seems dodgy as it is now. I actually craft mainly to gear myself not big on making money so that is my concern when I talk about effort and time. Honestly crafting can be very time consuming and if the rewards are just not there I will probably wait and see how they change before investing.
Researching traits, even with passives will take 2400 hours per item type if you want all the possible traits. Hoping that whatever this current bruhaha isn't something that is going to take the wind out of the sails of crafters planning on (basically) crafting only.
This is true but would you invest effort and time in crafting as it stands now ?
Without a single doubt !
It's a very good way to keep your character (characters, in my case) supplied with level-appropriate gear. You don't stroll out of town and assemble a kick-ass set of dropped loot in 5 mins. You need to cover your ass with something until you do.
And the ability to upgrade a piece of loot is a fantastic trick.
Being able to mess around with different racial styles is great as well.
I enjoyed crafting in the last 2 beta weekends, and I didn't get within 100 miles of any of the features that have apparently been "nerfed" in the last balance pass. So I'll still enjoy crafting the next time I play. When I stop enjoying it, I'll stop doing it.
@ Golden Tiger 2, welcome to the discussion, perhaps you can bring us closer to what you mean by all your statements.Theres three things I see you point out and touch on. I see you said that the only two things that make dropped more powerful then crafted is the "Traits, and the Set Bonus's".
Set bonuses come from crafting at craft stations. There is crafted gear that can be made for R10 and upraged to legendary also, and enchanted with crafted legendary enchants. Have you ever compared the differances between the Regular R10 gear with the Set bonus crafted gear to see if the Regular R10 gear is as powerful or more powerful then the Set bonus gear as whole?
You also state that you liked one of the set bonsus on crafted gear, but the others suck, is that because your build actually does not fit the styles of the other set bonus gear sets, or are there serious issues with the other set bonus gear that other players playing a build geared towards that set might not want them?
1. ENCHANTMENTS
Crafters put Legendary Enchants onto crafted Legendary armor. While Dropped Gear already has Enchants on them that upgrade to Legendary Quality Raiting as they are upgraded to Legendary Quality Raiting. Thanks for confirming this. So we are in agreement that both a Crafted Legendary Enchant put on an upgraded Legendary Crafted item, is equal to a enchantment embeded on a Legendary upgraded Dropped piece of gear are of equal Quality Raiting?
2. TRAITS
You note that traits is your biggest issue am I correct in assuming that traits is the biggest issue for you and is one of the factors in which you claim crafted is worse then dropped?I noticed that you Liked one of the "Nerfed Traits" that is on crafted gear, and compare it to having the same Quality Raiting or "Powerfulness" of a Dropped items Trait. Is it not safe to assume that other traits on the crafted gear is also one of the most favorite to be liked by other builds other then yours and holds a value for other players to use those traits for thier builds?
3. SET BONUSES
First let me ask you a question to understand which type of set bonuses we are talking about here. We have Set Crafted Stations around the world that are so drasticly different then each other to fit more then just one build, are you comparing the set bonuses of these types of crafted gear with dropped gear, or are you taking a Regular R10 piece of gear thats been fully upgraded to legendary and has a legendary enchant on it, and comparing that to dropped gear?
Everytime you say set bonuses, i cant help but to think you are comparing Crafting Set Station gear to dropped gear. Rather then comparing Regular Rank 10 Crafted gear that has been upgraded to legendary and has a crafted legendary enchant placed on it, with a trait from the regular crafting stations.
Where are these crafted set bonuses coming from, and do you view these crafting set stations as more poweful then regular created gear thats legendary with legendary enchants on them. We'll have to clarify this first before we can go futher with any questions on this.
Extra:
One last thing I wanted to know, you said these two things in this thread here, and I am having a hard time sorting them out, what did you mean by both of these statements reguarding traits...
GoldenTiger2: The balance problem has nothing to do between crafted traits and drop traits: they are identical. It's the set bonuses that differ significantly
and
GoldenTiger2: However now with traits nerfed so far down, their choice is nearly irrelevant except for one (Impenetrable, which reduces your incoming critical chance to be hit).
Can you expound on these two statements by you futher..
Well I'm glad I didn't pre-order. This is huge to a crafter like me. Make best gear dropped and upgraded with crafting atleast, but they can't even do that.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
Originally posted by rockin_ufo Well I'm glad I didn't pre-order. This is huge to a crafter like me. Make best gear dropped and upgraded with crafting atleast, but they can't even do that.
Didn't you read anything? Crafter still upgrade the best dropped stuff
Originally posted by free2play I wonder how many Crafters pre ordered compliments of this bait and switch?
It's not a bait and switch, the game isn't released yet.
People need to stop treating Beta like a demo and remember that it's a time meant for testing and adjustments.
I agree, people jump to conclusions without seeing the vision and goal of what they are doing in beta.
I think a lot of people are looking at beta as if its fully finished and that one day crafting is powerful, one day its not in beta, so that must be how it is going to be period..
ESO has stated its vision with crafting to be able to make the best gear in game... That is one vision I feel they are trying to live up to because both the dropped and crafted are of Legendary Quality Raiting, which speaks a lot to their vision and goal of crafting.
Originally posted by rockin_ufo Well I'm glad I didn't pre-order. This is huge to a crafter like me. Make best gear dropped and upgraded with crafting atleast, but they can't even do that.
Originally posted by rockin_ufo Well I'm glad I didn't pre-order. This is huge to a crafter like me. Make best gear dropped and upgraded with crafting atleast, but they can't even do that.
Didn't you read anything? Crafter still upgrade the best dropped stuff
Yes, exactly. Crafters will always be able to upgrade the best drops in game to Legendary Quality Raiting, which takes 20 tempers (crafting items) which are "exclusive" to only Crafters in game through "Hierlings, Extractions, and Refinements".
Which means crafters will always get a piece of the pie.
This whole tread is mainly about weather the upgraded Legendary drop gear, is as good as crafted Legendary crafted gear, which is just silly in my opinion because both are of Legendary Quality and we are fighting over peanuts here. All based on beta overpower/underpower adjustments that they are doing to get the gear perfected.
I really dont see where the problem is... This isnt WoW or EQ or ARR or Rift. ESO is definitely a unique game all in its own. Crafting still is very valuable since you can only craft legendaries. It wont be great from the start but your hard work will show iteself in the end.
Originally posted by Drew90000 I really dont see where the problem is... This isnt WoW or EQ or ARR or Rift. ESO is definitely a unique game all in its own. Crafting still is very valuable since you can only craft legendaries. It wont be great from the start but your hard work will show iteself in the end.
No it won't, if it stays like it currently is at least.
Dropped items can be upgraded to legendaries. It only takes a level 1 crafter to upgrade (you can spec to spend fewer temps but even a low level can do it, it just cost more).
Currently most end-game dropped gear is better then the crafted legendaries that crafters can do aside from a couple.
So crafters for the most part are left out of the loop at end game aside from improving a dropped item (which doesn't take nearly as much time/investment to be able to do as a full fledged die hard crafter who masters his skill.
Comments
I suppose the most pertinent question is whether these recent (?) changes are part of an ongoing balancing cycle or whether they are the "final" status quo ?
But that is not a question anyone but the devs can answer, I'd imagine.
Its an MMO, nothing is ever 'final'. This is something that is easily changed and tweaked over time. Freaking out before the game goes live about endgame gear specs is silly IMO.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
I'd have to agree with this fellow. If you've played Path of Exile, a patch release for balance regarding Cast when damage taken (CWDT) was made during the game's release (or after open beta). It made a lot of ruckus similar to what is happening on this thread.
SOLA - www.solaguild.com
(christian guild. Being christian is not required for membership though)
This is true but would you invest effort and time in crafting as it stands now ?
Yes, if I enjoyed crafting, I would craft. Just like I will play a character I enjoy regardless of current perceptions about overpowered/underpowered because I know that stuff will change many times in the near and distant future. I play what I enjoy and adjust as necessary as the game changes. Doing or not doing something related to the endgame based on how it looks 3 weeks before the game goes live is just plain silly. Its like taking a math calculation result to three decimal points and then making decisions based on that, when the accuracy of the calculation is +/- 10. But if you want to be one of those people who re-roll to be FOTM every month based on the most recent change, well hey its your time and your money.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Because now if you're a high level crafter with lots of traits learned from drops you have something rare to offer people that other crafters don't. If everyone can craft everything, then why do they need you?
By making the best traits from dropped items, crafters will want to snag some good ones to set them apart from the herd.
No I usually craft .In EQ 2 I had crafters on both Freeport and Qeynos and I enjoyed it and it was well worth the effort.Vanguard every crafter except woodworker which actually ended up being my downfall I suffered some tendon problem and stopped playing the game altogether. However crafting can take a toll especially when going in it seems dodgy as it is now. I actually craft mainly to gear myself not big on making money so that is my concern when I talk about effort and time. Honestly crafting can be very time consuming and if the rewards are just not there I will probably wait and see how they change before investing.
Researching traits, even with passives will take 2400 hours per item type if you want all the possible traits. Hoping that whatever this current bruhaha isn't something that is going to take the wind out of the sails of crafters planning on (basically) crafting only.
(Which I plan on for my 1st character at least)
Without a single doubt !
It's a very good way to keep your character (characters, in my case) supplied with level-appropriate gear. You don't stroll out of town and assemble a kick-ass set of dropped loot in 5 mins. You need to cover your ass with something until you do.
And the ability to upgrade a piece of loot is a fantastic trick.
Being able to mess around with different racial styles is great as well.
I enjoyed crafting in the last 2 beta weekends, and I didn't get within 100 miles of any of the features that have apparently been "nerfed" in the last balance pass. So I'll still enjoy crafting the next time I play. When I stop enjoying it, I'll stop doing it.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
@ Golden Tiger 2, welcome to the discussion, perhaps you can bring us closer to what you mean by all your statements.Theres three things I see you point out and touch on. I see you said that the only two things that make dropped more powerful then crafted is the "Traits, and the Set Bonus's".
Set bonuses come from crafting at craft stations. There is crafted gear that can be made for R10 and upraged to legendary also, and enchanted with crafted legendary enchants. Have you ever compared the differances between the Regular R10 gear with the Set bonus crafted gear to see if the Regular R10 gear is as powerful or more powerful then the Set bonus gear as whole?
You also state that you liked one of the set bonsus on crafted gear, but the others suck, is that because your build actually does not fit the styles of the other set bonus gear sets, or are there serious issues with the other set bonus gear that other players playing a build geared towards that set might not want them?
1. ENCHANTMENTS
Crafters put Legendary Enchants onto crafted Legendary armor. While Dropped Gear already has Enchants on them that upgrade to Legendary Quality Raiting as they are upgraded to Legendary Quality Raiting. Thanks for confirming this. So we are in agreement that both a Crafted Legendary Enchant put on an upgraded Legendary Crafted item, is equal to a enchantment embeded on a Legendary upgraded Dropped piece of gear are of equal Quality Raiting?
2. TRAITS
You note that traits is your biggest issue am I correct in assuming that traits is the biggest issue for you and is one of the factors in which you claim crafted is worse then dropped?I noticed that you Liked one of the "Nerfed Traits" that is on crafted gear, and compare it to having the same Quality Raiting or "Powerfulness" of a Dropped items Trait. Is it not safe to assume that other traits on the crafted gear is also one of the most favorite to be liked by other builds other then yours and holds a value for other players to use those traits for thier builds?
3. SET BONUSES
First let me ask you a question to understand which type of set bonuses we are talking about here. We have Set Crafted Stations around the world that are so drasticly different then each other to fit more then just one build, are you comparing the set bonuses of these types of crafted gear with dropped gear, or are you taking a Regular R10 piece of gear thats been fully upgraded to legendary and has a legendary enchant on it, and comparing that to dropped gear?
Everytime you say set bonuses, i cant help but to think you are comparing Crafting Set Station gear to dropped gear. Rather then comparing Regular Rank 10 Crafted gear that has been upgraded to legendary and has a crafted legendary enchant placed on it, with a trait from the regular crafting stations.
Where are these crafted set bonuses coming from, and do you view these crafting set stations as more poweful then regular created gear thats legendary with legendary enchants on them. We'll have to clarify this first before we can go futher with any questions on this.
Extra:
One last thing I wanted to know, you said these two things in this thread here, and I am having a hard time sorting them out, what did you mean by both of these statements reguarding traits...
GoldenTiger2:
The balance problem has nothing to do between crafted traits and drop traits: they are identical. It's the set bonuses that differ significantly
and
GoldenTiger2:
However now with traits nerfed so far down, their choice is nearly irrelevant except for one (Impenetrable, which reduces your incoming critical chance to be hit).
Can you expound on these two statements by you futher..
It's not a bait and switch, the game isn't released yet.
People need to stop treating Beta like a demo and remember that it's a time meant for testing and adjustments.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
Didn't you read anything? Crafter still upgrade the best dropped stuff
SOLA - www.solaguild.com
(christian guild. Being christian is not required for membership though)
I agree, people jump to conclusions without seeing the vision and goal of what they are doing in beta.
I think a lot of people are looking at beta as if its fully finished and that one day crafting is powerful, one day its not in beta, so that must be how it is going to be period..
ESO has stated its vision with crafting to be able to make the best gear in game... That is one vision I feel they are trying to live up to because both the dropped and crafted are of Legendary Quality Raiting, which speaks a lot to their vision and goal of crafting.
Have you read up on the game at all?
Yes, exactly. Crafters will always be able to upgrade the best drops in game to Legendary Quality Raiting, which takes 20 tempers (crafting items) which are "exclusive" to only Crafters in game through "Hierlings, Extractions, and Refinements".
Which means crafters will always get a piece of the pie.
This whole tread is mainly about weather the upgraded Legendary drop gear, is as good as crafted Legendary crafted gear, which is just silly in my opinion because both are of Legendary Quality and we are fighting over peanuts here. All based on beta overpower/underpower adjustments that they are doing to get the gear perfected.
No it won't, if it stays like it currently is at least.
Dropped items can be upgraded to legendaries. It only takes a level 1 crafter to upgrade (you can spec to spend fewer temps but even a low level can do it, it just cost more).
Currently most end-game dropped gear is better then the crafted legendaries that crafters can do aside from a couple.
So crafters for the most part are left out of the loop at end game aside from improving a dropped item (which doesn't take nearly as much time/investment to be able to do as a full fledged die hard crafter who masters his skill.