Funcom simply alienated much to many Players with AoC - Gamers do not forgive easy, if ever. TSW has good PvE, very good ihmo, but it is no real MMOrpg, the combat is pretty clunky (the Skill-Wheel is not really in Invention with choices of freedom), Crafting pointless, momentum lost, competition huge, success is low therefore. Shady Business accusations on top.
I stopped playing Funcom games...and stopped playing MMOrpgs also (a few weeks or months in TESO aside but i have low expectations for that one, Archeage slipped the Window of Oportunity).
If Funcom closes Business i dont care, i should sell the stuff i still have i guess b4 its to late.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
This is what happens when you do not not make proper PvP in 2014.
TSW has some of the best PvE in the business.
Let this be a lesson.
The PvP crowd is niche. Always has been, always will be. Period. So unless you actually have some kind of proof to back up your ridiculous assertion, kindly go back to your little badly translated kung fu game that almost nobody has heard of or cares about (despite the fact it's FFA PvP). Thanks.
Here is a proof PvP is not niche as seem to think:
Now, I am waiting for an apology to the poster you quoted as not only were you were rude to him/her but also you spread misinformation.
What's worse, *you* haven't brought any proof that PvP is a niche activity - just your own "authority" and "beliefs". Not only were you wrong, but also didn't even apply your own advice to yourself.
F2P is going to come crashing down in the near future. Sub Games like Eso are going to show developers that players dont mind paying a monthly for a solid game.
This would have nothing to do with the fact that FunCom is an awful company, with an awful track record, with awful management who can only figure out how to add content to games when it means more monetization of what is already a dwindling loyal customer base.
TSW could have the same combat as AoC. It would be great! Both AoC and TSW have dangerous worlds with a high mob concentration - that's great, by the way -, so if the combat is tiresome, anoying and gives you hand cramps it can really be a pain - literally - to play the game.
I'm a Grand Master in TSW and I have a 1,5 year running sub in AoC, because I think Funcom takes risks to deliever something different and trys to build good and mature virtual worlds.
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Funcom has released its Q4 2013 financial statements. The numbers are down sharply from a year ago. According to the report, Age of Conan and The Secret World are still viable properties that make money but the revenue gain is leaner due to an increasingly crowded free to play MMO market. Funcom reported revenue of $23.6M in Q4 2012 as opposed to $21.4M in Q4 2013.
$21.4M is for the ENTIRE 2013 year, not 4Q 2013, like $23.5M is for the entire 2012 year.
I've read $21.4M in Q4 2013 and was like "WTH that is more than CCP does in a quarter".
More problematic is the decline from 3Q13 to 4Q13 - 2012 after all saw the release of TSW.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I must be crazy , but I never liked the combat system in either games.
In conan , idea with combos was good on paper, but implementation was just terrible, and pointless.
In TSW , the combat was so un-imaginative and terrible. I just couldnt play the game. You are supposed to be these great magic casters , supernatural and hidden. But you go around with mallets and AK-s. And no move not even the "magic" ones look good. And thats just visual side. Not to mention on practical side its just clumsy and bad.
The games are both highly instanced and set in small areas separated by loooong loading screens.
Both of them games with great potential, some valid ideas, and good writing.
But ultimately and in practice - boring, badly designed.
TSW servers are populated and players are around everywhere,but it is B2P game without new content for spend money .Issue 8 is crap,no worth spending money or time for scenarios/augments grind.
It is one by best mmorpg's on market,great fun game but funcom doing something wrong with business.
you guys are so funny only focusing on TSW n AOC...when clearly they have other games. in mobile etc...
lets not forget TSW brought them most of last years revenue.
cleary one- if not the best mmo out there!- they should of stayed with sub base imo. i would of supported it 100%!!!!
I also was in the "don't switch to b2p" camp myself, but in the long run maybe that was a good decision - most members stayed subbed anyways, so with loosing some monthly fee FC won a box sale boost, and an optional crowd who might use the shop for some additional purchases.
This report is just the usual, AoC and AO maintaining their positions and bringing in some profits like they do since years, TSW is profitable as well, and FC is focusing onto Lego and mobile / tablet for 2014. I guess we'll see soon the voices of 2008-2009 returning, with "use our profits to upgrade our games and not pouring it into making a new one". I didn't agree with them by then, but I agree them now. Lego sucks.
As for the saturated market, it's a fact. Everyone has only 24h per day... I know I'm not a good example (since proudly hopping since the '80s ) but personally I've played TSW only once in February, and AoC zero times, and I love both games. I cite February since there were no events that month. I also haven't played STO since January. Simply there are way too many games on the market...
(for the record, my last month was mainly LotRO, with a few days of Aura Kingdom (I know...) on the side, a bit Vanguard, and Rift. And if I just had 20-30 mins, I've played a few rounds in FM, it's better than Hearthstone I think.)
Ressubed around new year. With a lot of problems was able to have my credit card charged. At the end by deleting all my payment options and recreating. When there was time to automatically resub, got error which support in 10 emails were unable to solve, from response every single time I had impression nobody has actually read what is problem, like always some automated response. Terrible support. Gived up, resubbed to Wow and I'm happy all this time.
For me the problem with the game is that they've done the combat so utterly sloppy, unoriginal and boring it ruins the whole experience. This is a prime example of even though a game has a nice look and excellent questing, but it doesn't matter how nice car you got if the engine don't work.
Funcom are trying desperately to provide their existing fans with an almost "Cash Shop free" play experience, but it's going to kill them.
F2P only works for AAA MMO's if those games launched as sub-only and had a year or two of subscription income on top of the initial box sales. That covers the cost recovery and repayment of investors nicely, so the earnings from the later "F2P phase" are not under such huge pressure.
Trion will most probably be the next studio "on the ropes"...
Now, I am waiting for an apology to the poster you quoted as not only were you were rude to him/her but also you spread misinformation.
What's worse, *you* haven't brought any proof that PvP is a niche activity - just your own "authority" and "beliefs". Not only were you wrong, but also didn't even apply your own advice to yourself.
What a ridiculous forum poster you are.
670k pvp instances..if you figure at least 2 or 3 per player minimum that's only 300 thousand or so players out of,what? 11 mill or so.. i think he was right calling it a niche.
F2P is going to come crashing down in the near future. Sub Games like Eso are going to show developers that players dont mind paying a monthly for a solid game.
free to play conversion announcement in 8 months.. or they'll drag it out longer due to pride.
Funcom are trying desperately to provide their existing fans with an almost "Cash Shop free" play experience, but it's going to kill them.
F2P only works for AAA MMO's if those games launched as sub-only and had a year or two of subscription income on top of the initial box sales. That covers the cost recovery and repayment of investors nicely, so the earnings from the later "F2P phase" are not under such huge pressure.
Trion will most probably be the next studio "on the ropes"...
what funcom is cash grabby as all hell.. i mean in AoC they lock out half the races and classes or something crazy unless you sub or cash shop purchase them.
at least with trion, they give you access to ALL the game and dont force you into the cash shop at all.
Originally posted by nilden Market saturation makes for a great scapegoat when you can't admit the obvious reason. The lack of quality.
there is nothing wrong with TSW..its all a matter of choice.Just because it doesn't cater to your taste it does not make it a bad game.In fact its a great game with some of the best dungeons you will ever see in an mmo.this type of game caters for the minority not the majority.And they do have a point.the market is saturated.TSW may not be the greatest mmo but its extremely well done.It lacks in a few things i'll grant you that ,but if you put it up against that abortion that is SWTOR this game wins hands down.
Funcom are trying desperately to provide their existing fans with an almost "Cash Shop free" play experience, but it's going to kill them.
F2P only works for AAA MMO's if those games launched as sub-only and had a year or two of subscription income on top of the initial box sales. That covers the cost recovery and repayment of investors nicely, so the earnings from the later "F2P phase" are not under such huge pressure.
Trion will most probably be the next studio "on the ropes"...
what funcom is cash grabby as all hell.. i mean in AoC they lock out half the races and classes or something crazy unless you sub or cash shop purchase them.
at least with trion, they give you access to ALL the game and dont force you into the cash shop at all.
I have three maxed toons in AoC I bought ROTGS at release guess what I can't even t get into Khatia and do daily grinds without purchasing a pass. Really? I paid for the expansion but they want me to pay again to access it? That's not a cash grab?
i dunno if you misquoted me, but i was actually saying the poster i quoted is crazy because funcom cash grabs the hell out of people they arent trying to provide a "cash shop free experience" at all.
Originally posted by nilden Market saturation makes for a great scapegoat when you can't admit the obvious reason. The lack of quality.
there is nothing wrong with TSW..its all a matter of choice.Just because it doesn't cater to your taste it does not make it a bad game.In fact its a great game with some of the best dungeons you will ever see in an mmo.this type of game caters for the minority not the majority.And they do have a point.the market is saturated.TSW may not be the greatest mmo but its extremely well done.It lacks in a few things i'll grant you that ,but if you put it up against that abortion that is SWTOR this game wins hands down.
i think thats a bit rough... i was playing swtor late last year / early this year after not playing it since it's launch and it's come a long way and galactic starfighter is pretty fun for a bit... pitching games against each other is pointless. taste is subjective and opinions are objective and thats fine... but going as low as... MY GAME IS BETTER THEN YOUR GAME, starting to get a bit petty
Now, I am waiting for an apology to the poster you quoted as not only were you were rude to him/her but also you spread misinformation.
What's worse, *you* haven't brought any proof that PvP is a niche activity - just your own "authority" and "beliefs". Not only were you wrong, but also didn't even apply your own advice to yourself.
What a ridiculous forum poster you are.
670k pvp instances..if you figure at least 2 or 3 per player minimum that's only 300 thousand or so players out of,what? 11 mill or so.. i think he was right calling it a niche.
The problem for TSW is that they didn't even recover the inicial developemt costs like most mmos, the other one being SWTOR. This caused Funcom to lose a ton of money. That's why they went B2P instead of F2P directly. They need it, which is a shame because TSW is, to me atleast, one of the best themeparks right now along with GW2. Alot of problems clearly, by still.
IMO, Funcom is too focused on the MMORPG market. If they can pull the money somehow, i think they shouls make a single player spin-off of TSW like TSW: Another story.
Really, just keep the lore, story, investigation missions, crafting, improve the graphics, combats, etc for SP and advertise using ARPG and normal methods. With an already existing mmo, and standing out as a "real world/dark magic/puzzle" RPG, i believe they could build up interest in the IP, followed by more SP stories. I know i'd buy it. Maybe then even realize TSW a realm rebo... erh i mean TSW 2.
Having been a post-launch AoC player I loved the game. The graphics, the real maturity aspect, and combat were fantastic compared to the general tab-targeting systems everyone else was doing at the time. I've returned to the game several times over the years, unfortunately the lack of a population for pvp is what prevented me from staying last time around.
TSW, on the other hand, I had no interest in ever trying and based on what I've heard post-launch I didn't miss much.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Comments
Funcom simply alienated much to many Players with AoC - Gamers do not forgive easy, if ever.
TSW has good PvE, very good ihmo, but it is no real MMOrpg, the combat is pretty clunky (the Skill-Wheel is not really in Invention with choices of freedom), Crafting pointless, momentum lost, competition huge, success is low therefore.
Shady Business accusations on top.
I stopped playing Funcom games...and stopped playing MMOrpgs also (a few weeks or months in TESO aside but i have low expectations for that one, Archeage slipped the Window of Oportunity).
If Funcom closes Business i dont care, i should sell the stuff i still have i guess b4 its to late.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
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Here is a proof PvP is not niche as seem to think:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12346804/world-of-warcraft-azeroth-by-the-numbers-1-28-2014
According to this infographics (dated 28/01/2014):
Every day in Azeroth, there are:
900k pve instances (dungeons, raids, scenarios)
670k pvp instances (battlegrounds, arenas, rated BGs)
Now, I am waiting for an apology to the poster you quoted as not only were you were rude to him/her but also you spread misinformation.
What's worse, *you* haven't brought any proof that PvP is a niche activity - just your own "authority" and "beliefs". Not only were you wrong, but also didn't even apply your own advice to yourself.
What a ridiculous forum poster you are.
Don't think so
This would have nothing to do with the fact that FunCom is an awful company, with an awful track record, with awful management who can only figure out how to add content to games when it means more monetization of what is already a dwindling loyal customer base.
Nope, not at all.
TSW could have the same combat as AoC. It would be great! Both AoC and TSW have dangerous worlds with a high mob concentration - that's great, by the way -, so if the combat is tiresome, anoying and gives you hand cramps it can really be a pain - literally - to play the game.
I'm a Grand Master in TSW and I have a 1,5 year running sub in AoC, because I think Funcom takes risks to deliever something different and trys to build good and mature virtual worlds.
My FFXIV ARR referral code for new EU accounts: 5JPF7ZQ3
Step into the amazing world of Eorzea! Use this reference code on a new account and we'll both get goodies for it!
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/$21.4M is for the ENTIRE 2013 year, not 4Q 2013, like $23.5M is for the entire 2012 year.
I've read $21.4M in Q4 2013 and was like "WTH that is more than CCP does in a quarter".
More problematic is the decline from 3Q13 to 4Q13 - 2012 after all saw the release of TSW.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I must be crazy , but I never liked the combat system in either games.
In conan , idea with combos was good on paper, but implementation was just terrible, and pointless.
In TSW , the combat was so un-imaginative and terrible. I just couldnt play the game. You are supposed to be these great magic casters , supernatural and hidden. But you go around with mallets and AK-s. And no move not even the "magic" ones look good. And thats just visual side. Not to mention on practical side its just clumsy and bad.
The games are both highly instanced and set in small areas separated by loooong loading screens.
Both of them games with great potential, some valid ideas, and good writing.
But ultimately and in practice - boring, badly designed.
So please dont blame other games...
Well if the other games were worse, things would have been better.
It is a shame because the story bits and the investigations are quite fun.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
TSW servers are populated and players are around everywhere,but it is B2P game without new content for spend money .Issue 8 is crap,no worth spending money or time for scenarios/augments grind.
It is one by best mmorpg's on market,great fun game but funcom doing something wrong with business.
I also was in the "don't switch to b2p" camp myself, but in the long run maybe that was a good decision - most members stayed subbed anyways, so with loosing some monthly fee FC won a box sale boost, and an optional crowd who might use the shop for some additional purchases.
This report is just the usual, AoC and AO maintaining their positions and bringing in some profits like they do since years, TSW is profitable as well, and FC is focusing onto Lego and mobile / tablet for 2014. I guess we'll see soon the voices of 2008-2009 returning, with "use our profits to upgrade our games and not pouring it into making a new one". I didn't agree with them by then, but I agree them now. Lego sucks.
As for the saturated market, it's a fact. Everyone has only 24h per day... I know I'm not a good example (since proudly hopping since the '80s
) but personally I've played TSW only once in February, and AoC zero times, and I love both games. I cite February since there were no events that month. I also haven't played STO since January. Simply there are way too many games on the market...
(for the record, my last month was mainly LotRO, with a few days of Aura Kingdom (I know...) on the side, a bit Vanguard, and Rift. And if I just had 20-30 mins, I've played a few rounds in FM, it's better than Hearthstone I think.)
Funcom are trying desperately to provide their existing fans with an almost "Cash Shop free" play experience, but it's going to kill them.
F2P only works for AAA MMO's if those games launched as sub-only and had a year or two of subscription income on top of the initial box sales. That covers the cost recovery and repayment of investors nicely, so the earnings from the later "F2P phase" are not under such huge pressure.
Trion will most probably be the next studio "on the ropes"...
Originally posted by askdaboss
Here is a proof PvP is not niche as seem to think:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/12346804/world-of-warcraft-azeroth-by-the-numbers-1-28-2014
According to this infographics (dated 28/01/2014):
Every day in Azeroth, there are:
900k pve instances (dungeons, raids, scenarios)
670k pvp instances (battlegrounds, arenas, rated BGs)
Now, I am waiting for an apology to the poster you quoted as not only were you were rude to him/her but also you spread misinformation.
What's worse, *you* haven't brought any proof that PvP is a niche activity - just your own "authority" and "beliefs". Not only were you wrong, but also didn't even apply your own advice to yourself.
What a ridiculous forum poster you are.
670k pvp instances..if you figure at least 2 or 3 per player minimum that's only 300 thousand or so players out of,what? 11 mill or so.. i think he was right calling it a niche.
free to play conversion announcement in 8 months.. or they'll drag it out longer due to pride.
what funcom is cash grabby as all hell.. i mean in AoC they lock out half the races and classes or something crazy unless you sub or cash shop purchase them.
at least with trion, they give you access to ALL the game and dont force you into the cash shop at all.
there is nothing wrong with TSW..its all a matter of choice.Just because it doesn't cater to your taste it does not make it a bad game.In fact its a great game with some of the best dungeons you will ever see in an mmo.this type of game caters for the minority not the majority.And they do have a point.the market is saturated.TSW may not be the greatest mmo but its extremely well done.It lacks in a few things i'll grant you that ,but if you put it up against that abortion that is SWTOR this game wins hands down.
i dunno if you misquoted me, but i was actually saying the poster i quoted is crazy because funcom cash grabs the hell out of people they arent trying to provide a "cash shop free experience" at all.
i think thats a bit rough... i was playing swtor late last year / early this year after not playing it since it's launch and it's come a long way and galactic starfighter is pretty fun for a bit... pitching games against each other is pointless. taste is subjective and opinions are objective and thats fine... but going as low as... MY GAME IS BETTER THEN YOUR GAME, starting to get a bit petty
GG, bookmarked.
The problem for TSW is that they didn't even recover the inicial developemt costs like most mmos, the other one being SWTOR. This caused Funcom to lose a ton of money. That's why they went B2P instead of F2P directly. They need it, which is a shame because TSW is, to me atleast, one of the best themeparks right now along with GW2. Alot of problems clearly, by still.
IMO, Funcom is too focused on the MMORPG market. If they can pull the money somehow, i think they shouls make a single player spin-off of TSW like TSW: Another story.
Really, just keep the lore, story, investigation missions, crafting, improve the graphics, combats, etc for SP and advertise using ARPG and normal methods. With an already existing mmo, and standing out as a "real world/dark magic/puzzle" RPG, i believe they could build up interest in the IP, followed by more SP stories. I know i'd buy it. Maybe then even realize TSW a realm rebo... erh i mean TSW 2.
Having been a post-launch AoC player I loved the game. The graphics, the real maturity aspect, and combat were fantastic compared to the general tab-targeting systems everyone else was doing at the time. I've returned to the game several times over the years, unfortunately the lack of a population for pvp is what prevented me from staying last time around.
TSW, on the other hand, I had no interest in ever trying and based on what I've heard post-launch I didn't miss much.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
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