if you dont use addon, you are either a super casual player or a noob. Does it still matter if anyone has "any" advantage over you? Any half serious mmo player will be better than you even without mods.
How does this make sense? im a Casual player in all of my game's FPS,Sports i still end up in the top tier. Elders Scrolls was not built on just MMO players , On a leveled playing field i'm sure an Elder Scrolls Series Vet will be competitive in this game.
Sounds like you are saying the same as the quote you are replying to.....
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
if you dont use addon, you are either a super casual player or a noob. Does it still matter if anyone has "any" advantage over you? Any half serious mmo player will be better than you even without mods.
How does this make sense? im a Casual player in all of my game's FPS,Sports i still end up in the top tier. Elders Scrolls was not built on just MMO players , On a leveled playing field i'm sure an Elder Scrolls Series Vet will be competitive in this game.
Sounds like you are saying the same as the quote you are replying to.....
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
I guess it's in that word he used..."serious". You may be casual, but can still be a serious MMO gamer.
I'm only half way paying attention tonight....but I see your point
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
A good UI will always be better at bubbling up important information. Look at the heads up displays used by the military, and it doesn't get much more real time than that. Plain and simple the more information you have at your fingertips in an easy to digest way, the more power you have to act intelligently. Seeing how the default UI doesn't relay much information, there will probably be a couple replacement UIs that are commonly used right from the get go. Most players using standard will likely not be performing well compared to those with a custom interface, and players interested in optimizing performance will feel like they need to use an addon.
This will have a huge impact on whether or not people feel like they are playing a TES game or just another MMO. The thing is even people that are playing for the TES experience, a large number of them likely are also concerned with their performance compared to other players and are left having to choose between the TES experience or performance.
if you dont use addon, you are either a super casual player or a noob. Does it still matter if anyone has "any" advantage over you? Any half serious mmo player will be better than you even without mods.
How does this make sense? im a Casual player in all of my game's FPS,Sports i still end up in the top tier. Elders Scrolls was not built on just MMO players , On a leveled playing field i'm sure an Elder Scrolls Series Vet will be competitive in this game.
Sounds like you are saying the same as the quote you are replying to.....
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
Years from fighting ai (elder scrolls vet) vs years of fighting ai and other players (most mmo players)?
if you dont use addon, you are either a super casual player or a noob. Does it still matter if anyone has "any" advantage over you? Any half serious mmo player will be better than you even without mods.
How does this make sense? im a Casual player in all of my game's FPS,Sports i still end up in the top tier. Elders Scrolls was not built on just MMO players , On a leveled playing field i'm sure an Elder Scrolls Series Vet will be competitive in this game.
Sounds like you are saying the same as the quote you are replying to.....
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
Years from fighting ai (elder scrolls vet) vs years of fighting ai and other players (most mmo players)?
That^
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
if you dont use addon, you are either a super casual player or a noob. Does it still matter if anyone has "any" advantage over you? Any half serious mmo player will be better than you even without mods.
How does this make sense? im a Casual player in all of my game's FPS,Sports i still end up in the top tier. Elders Scrolls was not built on just MMO players , On a leveled playing field i'm sure an Elder Scrolls Series Vet will be competitive in this game.
Sounds like you are saying the same as the quote you are replying to.....
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
Years from fighting ai (elder scrolls vet) vs years of fighting ai and other players (most mmo players)?
Yes that is what I'm saying, It is a learning curve i know from the beta but don't think an elder scrolls Vet cant get with the program if it's fair for them and not just a big card game of who got the best numbers, we live in a time when everything is online just because a person doesn't play MMORPG's, doesn't mean they haven't been facing humans in other game genre's online in a competitive fashion, i for one chose not to play mmo's cause i only like M rated RPG's like elders scrolls,
What the writer is talking about is using ui mods for PVP as an issue.
If there were no PVP, there would not be an article to read on this subject.
Mods are cheating, "IF" you are looking for stats that no one else sees, while in a game that is measured by watching an opponents body language. Do you not have the merit and or the skills to do so without stat bars and icon cues?
You call mods skills? No.
Looking up to research on the wiki is not cheating because you are not looking at opponents live stats.
"Whats That Mr. Death Knocking At Your Door, Who's Gonna Die Tonight?"
Very well written Mike, it exactly describes my worries about the UI modding..
And i think the developers are definately watching this and recognise that there needs to be a ballance between the standard Ui and the modded UIs in PvP.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
A good article, and one of the critical topics with the game.
A couple of individual points:
"designing a minimalistic UI that is distinctively Elder Scrolls". - whilst they've intentionally gone down this route there is another player base in this game apart from ES fans. Whilst most mmo players can appreciate ZOS leaning toward an ES look, something as basic as the removal of a mini-map is possibly a step too far. Just make this an option in the game.
"and the recent trend towards a smaller amount of abilities being available at any given time" - slightly disingenuous here I have to say. This is forced onto traditional pc players by the limitations of controller play. The obvious user unfriendly example is the Q wheel. Even the press this button, that allows you to then press other buttons on a second set of skills can be seen as the developers fighting against the limited number of commands available with a controller.
The question then is why should traditional pc players suffer because of this? It's a changing world could be the answer, and a reasonable one.
However no matter how good this reasoning, the outcome can feel too limiting for players who have traditionally had easier access to skills/potions etc. Consequently I suggest that any add-ons appearing that make the UI more pc friendly would be become popular very quickly.
I am in full agreement that the game should not get to a stage where you either have all seeing add-ons, or are severely disadvantaged in pvp. But I do feel that ZOS have gone too far down this minimalist route, especially for pc players and consequently add-ons are needed, even required to make up for this.
A good article, and one of the critical topics with the game.
A couple of individual points:
"designing a minimalistic UI that is distinctively Elder Scrolls". - whilst they've intentionally gone down this route there is another player base in this game apart from ES fans. Whilst most mmo players can appreciate ZOS leaning toward an ES look, something as basic as the removal of a mini-map is possibly a step too far. Just make this an option in the game.
"and the recent trend towards a smaller amount of abilities being available at any given time" - slightly disingenuous here I have to say. This is forced onto traditional pc players by the limitations of controller play. The obvious user unfriendly example is the Q wheel. Even the press this button, that allows you to then press other buttons on a second set of skills can be seen as the developers fighting against the limited number of commands available with a controller.
The question then is why should traditional pc players suffer because of this? It's a changing world could be the answer, and a reasonable one.
However no matter how good this reasoning, the outcome can feel too limiting for players who have traditionally had easier access to skills/potions etc. Consequently I suggest that any add-ons appearing that make the UI more pc friendly would be become popular very quickly.
I am in full agreement that the game should not get to a stage where you either have all seeing add-ons, or are severely disadvantaged in pvp. But I do feel that ZOS have gone too far down this minimalist route, especially for pc players and consequently add-ons are needed, even required to make up for this.
You're going to have addons. You just might not have one that tells you things about other players. Other than what you see from the standard UI.
This sort of thing is why as time goes on I tend to stay away from PVP-focused games. In the end, all the wonders get shoe-horned into number-crunching and using the UI to scratch out an edge. Tactics are boiled down to one thing only - get on voice comm and use it to call targets/focus fire.
Space game, pirate game, WW2 game, fantasy game, swords, guns, lasers - none of it matters. Get on comms and and spam your key-bound skills in focus fire.
Part of the problem:
- MMO have never handled collision detection well. As a result "front line" becomes meaningless as player toons race into and through each other. Formations are meaningless and you get a blob of dots
- few PVP games handle friendly fire well, instead letting mages blast fireballs into groups of their own and the other side and only affect the other side; or people shooting arrows or swinging swords that magically only seem to hit enemies and go right through friendlies
- very few PVP games handle physical exertion well; in reality fighters husband their strength instead of running manically around hitting the jump key and spamming skills as soon as the CD are down; getting "tired" or "winded" is rarely if ever a concern so why not run around like a cartoon rabbit?
- very few PVP games handle terrain well; elevation is largely meaningless since people run up and down hills at the same speed; swim rivers upstream and downstream at the same speed; fall dozens of yards in full armor with no real injury
Those who remember the old Shadowbane (RIP) MMO will recall they addressed some of these issues. You had limited stamina that regenned. There was friendly fire.
But in the end the lack of collision detection was an achilles heel - one valid tactic was to "stack" everyone on the same spot to make targeting difficult.
Maybe ESO addresses some of these issues. But from what I have read so far, it sounds like PVP will be just like every other game out there - two blobs spamming, with the blob that has the most people on comms focus firing winning. Melee combat will be two bunny rabbits hopping the jump key as they spam and circle, passing right through each other.
Ugh...I wish they would evolve and give us better PVP. PVP that doesn't depend on UI-bind spams and blob focus fire.
That may seal it for me. Every game I have played that has extreme modding makes the mods required in group activity by either you're side or to stay competitive with the other side. This makes it too mathy for my tastes. You're not paying the game you're playing a set of sub math games. The realism it's punctured
I am really a not a fan of this direction where if i want even the most basic in-game info, i have to resort to using some kind of add-on.
I really wish companies would spend more time in making their own UIs actually good instead of doing what ZOS did and basically saying "We're just going to give you a blank screen, if you want antyhing else, make it yourself".
We're talking about very basic things that have been provided by pretty much every MMORPG in existence - ability to find out how much your skill or attack hit for, stuff like that.
In my eyes, the onus is on the game developer to provide the players with the "even playing field". To say, "well, you have all this info via API, but only those of you that know how to make or download an add-on can take advantage of it" just calls out for drama and bickering.
We already have one side calling those that do what zenimax intended (use the info provided via API) "elitist cheaters" and the other side calling those that do the other thing that zenimax intended (play with a clear UI) "ignorant noobs". It really shoudln't be the people that decide what information they get from the game, it should be the developer. To throw it out to the masses and hope for the best is lazy as best and cowardly at worst.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
With so much of the game about pvp, the mod should not be giving advantages. It should be you skill with your build not the strength of your mod that is the difference maker. In my opinion, ZOS should lean towards less rather then more. The hard core pvp guys are not what will make or break this game. If they got half the Skyrim crowd only to buy and subscribe it would still be a huge success.
Many players don't want their screen to look like a F22 Raptor HUD when playing a fantasy MMO. We especially don't want to consistently get face rolled in PVP who are advantaged by an add on.
I left WoW because raid leaders were requiring special mods to get in the raids in addition to gear ratings. I sure hope they do not allow player Inspections.
Better nip this in the bud early rather then later. The ZOS statement gives me hope that player skill will rule in pvp not who has the best add on.
make the molders submit their mod to ZOS for approval or the game will not accept it.
To all intents and purposes, the "ES experience" will end when you step inside Cyrodiil.
That will be the domain of min/maxing and extensive and sophisticated add-ons. You can choose not to use the add-ons of course, but don't complain if you end up paying the price for your stubbornes.
Precisely why they should offer a Cyrodil campaign that disables all add-ons.
It would be great if modders were only creating QoL add-ons, but unfortunately, humans are greedy and will try to cheat any game they can in their favor if they can get away with it. Thus we have the drama we have today. Remove all add-ons, they have been more of a bane than a boon for the MMORPG genre.
How about instead of telling us we can't have a mini-map, they just give us the option to turn it on or off.
Why do you feel you need a mini-map? All it does it turn on easymode. In my day we didn't even have a compass! Just a stupid Sense Direction skill to level up. I still have no idea which way I'm facing! But seriously, it required you to actually learn the land rather than stare at a mini-map. Shoot...I got LOST for the first time in years in a MMO in ESO beta. Felt GREAT!
Another issue is that of shifting baselines. Kids today have grown up with all these MMO conveniences, like mini-maps and auction houses, that they don't know any better and have nothing to compare against. It's a travesty, really, because in the studios' bids to cater to a more casual gamer for more profits they have bred a generation of lazy gamers who would rather be spoonfed information than L2P.
Why do you feel you need a mini-map? All it does it turn on easymode.
The question is not about whether or not the game should provide a map or not. The game DOES provide a map - it's quite excellent and detailed - every bit as "easymode" as you're afraid of. The question is whether or not you need to stop running every 3 seconds and press "M" in order to look at it. This doesn't make the game harder, just inconvenient and annoying.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I didn't know how much I wanted a sparse UI until I played my first beta weekend. I'll only be really happy if they restrict the API to allow mods which only show information any player using the default could know. If they allow anything else, I'll be among those who feel they need the same mods to keep up and I'll feel sad for my now-cluttered UI.
Originally posted by sketocafe I didn't know how much I wanted a sparse UI until I played my first beta weekend. I'll only be really happy if they restrict the API to allow mods which only show information any player using the default could know. If they allow anything else, I'll be among those who feel they need the same mods to keep up and I'll feel sad for my now-cluttered UI.
There is a huge difference between having a sparse and well-designed UI and having NO access to any information whatsoever. Just because i don't want to have giant numbers (or ANY numbers) flying across my screen while i'm fighting, doesn't mean that i don't want there to be a way to find out what my abilities are doing or how i performed in combat.
All kinds of optional information can be added to "on-demand" screens rather than to what you see as you're out in the world. Take the character stats screen, that's in the default game, yet i don't have to look at it when i'm fighting a mob. zomg, brilliant!
sigh.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by sketocafe I didn't know how much I wanted a sparse UI until I played my first beta weekend. I'll only be really happy if they restrict the API to allow mods which only show information any player using the default could know. If they allow anything else, I'll be among those who feel they need the same mods to keep up and I'll feel sad for my now-cluttered UI.
There is a huge difference between having a sparse and well-designed UI and having NO access to any information whatsoever. Just because i don't want to have giant numbers (or ANY numbers) flying across my screen while i'm fighting, doesn't mean that i don't want there to be a way to find out what my abilities are doing or how i performed in combat.
All kinds of optional information can be added to "on-demand" screens rather than to what you see as you're out in the world. Take the character stats screen, that's in the default game, yet i don't have to look at it when i'm fighting a mob. zomg, brilliant!
sigh.
Could you try that part with the stats screen again but make sense this time?
To me, one of the biggest selling points of ESO is the ability to modify your UI. As it stands, the UI is TOO minimal for me.
My two main beefs are that there is no way to know if you have a buff running and there is no feedback as to what you have looted if you have autoloot running. Also I also want to move my unit frames I can more easily compare my health with that of hte enemy. I want to be able to display more than one quest objective at at time. THANK GOD these can be fixed with mods.
Does that make my UI cluttered? Maybe. But that's my choice.
One of the great strengths of WoW has been the ability to modify your UI. I would posit that it would not have lasted as long as it has without the creativity of the modding community. Most game that allow modding have at least doubled their lifespan because people enjoy the creativity and ability to contribute ... and to a degree the ego boost of having your addons being really popular. With apologies the Full Metal Jacket ... "This is my UI. There are many like it, but this one is mine".
Yes the WoW API went too far in the early days, but Blizzard and consequently other developers (including ZOS) have learned from that experience. You can't automate combat. You can't automate movement. You can't automate using potions. And while it is possible to exploit it using 3rd party software, that's the quickest way to be beaten with the BANHAMMER ... and I hope they do hit them hard and hit them fast.
Without addons, I think ESO would just be relegated to another generic flash-in-the-pan MMO. With the addon community behind it, I reckon it will be much more successful.
Originally posted by sketocafe I didn't know how much I wanted a sparse UI until I played my first beta weekend. I'll only be really happy if they restrict the API to allow mods which only show information any player using the default could know. If they allow anything else, I'll be among those who feel they need the same mods to keep up and I'll feel sad for my now-cluttered UI.
There is a huge difference between having a sparse and well-designed UI and having NO access to any information whatsoever. Just because i don't want to have giant numbers (or ANY numbers) flying across my screen while i'm fighting, doesn't mean that i don't want there to be a way to find out what my abilities are doing or how i performed in combat.
I'll tell you a secret - if the player you are fighting dies, you and your "abilities" did just fine. If you died, well then, back to training chap.
How about instead of telling us we can't have a mini-map, they just give us the option to turn it on or off.
Sense Direction skill to level up.
Man have mmo's gone backwards or what lol, sense heading brings back many an EQ memory. You also had the option of dropping items on the ground just like TES.
Comments
No he is trying to imply that any half serious MMO Player has an advatage over me. ESO Combat is about Timing as well as stats, it's real time action, with human input numbers don't always win, this isn't a card game as long as the playing field is fair.
I guess it's in that word he used..."serious". You may be casual, but can still be a serious MMO gamer.
I'm only half way paying attention tonight....but I see your point
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
A good UI will always be better at bubbling up important information. Look at the heads up displays used by the military, and it doesn't get much more real time than that. Plain and simple the more information you have at your fingertips in an easy to digest way, the more power you have to act intelligently. Seeing how the default UI doesn't relay much information, there will probably be a couple replacement UIs that are commonly used right from the get go. Most players using standard will likely not be performing well compared to those with a custom interface, and players interested in optimizing performance will feel like they need to use an addon.
This will have a huge impact on whether or not people feel like they are playing a TES game or just another MMO. The thing is even people that are playing for the TES experience, a large number of them likely are also concerned with their performance compared to other players and are left having to choose between the TES experience or performance.
Years from fighting ai (elder scrolls vet) vs years of fighting ai and other players (most mmo players)?
That^
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
So you're saying you think the information should be easily accessible in the base UI? I agree.
Yes that is what I'm saying, It is a learning curve i know from the beta but don't think an elder scrolls Vet cant get with the program if it's fair for them and not just a big card game of who got the best numbers, we live in a time when everything is online just because a person doesn't play MMORPG's, doesn't mean they haven't been facing humans in other game genre's online in a competitive fashion, i for one chose not to play mmo's cause i only like M rated RPG's like elders scrolls,
"Whats That Mr. Death Knocking At Your Door, Who's Gonna Die Tonight?"
What the writer is talking about is using ui mods for PVP as an issue.
If there were no PVP, there would not be an article to read on this subject.
Mods are cheating, "IF" you are looking for stats that no one else sees, while in a game that is measured by watching an opponents body language. Do you not have the merit and or the skills to do so without stat bars and icon cues?
You call mods skills? No.
Looking up to research on the wiki is not cheating because you are not looking at opponents live stats.
"Whats That Mr. Death Knocking At Your Door, Who's Gonna Die Tonight?"
Very well written Mike, it exactly describes my worries about the UI modding..
And i think the developers are definately watching this and recognise that there needs to be a ballance between the standard Ui and the modded UIs in PvP.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
A good article, and one of the critical topics with the game.
A couple of individual points:
"designing a minimalistic UI that is distinctively Elder Scrolls". - whilst they've intentionally gone down this route there is another player base in this game apart from ES fans. Whilst most mmo players can appreciate ZOS leaning toward an ES look, something as basic as the removal of a mini-map is possibly a step too far. Just make this an option in the game.
"and the recent trend towards a smaller amount of abilities being available at any given time" - slightly disingenuous here I have to say. This is forced onto traditional pc players by the limitations of controller play. The obvious user unfriendly example is the Q wheel. Even the press this button, that allows you to then press other buttons on a second set of skills can be seen as the developers fighting against the limited number of commands available with a controller.
The question then is why should traditional pc players suffer because of this? It's a changing world could be the answer, and a reasonable one.
However no matter how good this reasoning, the outcome can feel too limiting for players who have traditionally had easier access to skills/potions etc. Consequently I suggest that any add-ons appearing that make the UI more pc friendly would be become popular very quickly.
I am in full agreement that the game should not get to a stage where you either have all seeing add-ons, or are severely disadvantaged in pvp. But I do feel that ZOS have gone too far down this minimalist route, especially for pc players and consequently add-ons are needed, even required to make up for this.
You're going to have addons. You just might not have one that tells you things about other players. Other than what you see from the standard UI.
This sort of thing is why as time goes on I tend to stay away from PVP-focused games. In the end, all the wonders get shoe-horned into number-crunching and using the UI to scratch out an edge. Tactics are boiled down to one thing only - get on voice comm and use it to call targets/focus fire.
Space game, pirate game, WW2 game, fantasy game, swords, guns, lasers - none of it matters. Get on comms and and spam your key-bound skills in focus fire.
Part of the problem:
- MMO have never handled collision detection well. As a result "front line" becomes meaningless as player toons race into and through each other. Formations are meaningless and you get a blob of dots
- few PVP games handle friendly fire well, instead letting mages blast fireballs into groups of their own and the other side and only affect the other side; or people shooting arrows or swinging swords that magically only seem to hit enemies and go right through friendlies
- very few PVP games handle physical exertion well; in reality fighters husband their strength instead of running manically around hitting the jump key and spamming skills as soon as the CD are down; getting "tired" or "winded" is rarely if ever a concern so why not run around like a cartoon rabbit?
- very few PVP games handle terrain well; elevation is largely meaningless since people run up and down hills at the same speed; swim rivers upstream and downstream at the same speed; fall dozens of yards in full armor with no real injury
Those who remember the old Shadowbane (RIP) MMO will recall they addressed some of these issues. You had limited stamina that regenned. There was friendly fire.
But in the end the lack of collision detection was an achilles heel - one valid tactic was to "stack" everyone on the same spot to make targeting difficult.
Maybe ESO addresses some of these issues. But from what I have read so far, it sounds like PVP will be just like every other game out there - two blobs spamming, with the blob that has the most people on comms focus firing winning. Melee combat will be two bunny rabbits hopping the jump key as they spam and circle, passing right through each other.
Ugh...I wish they would evolve and give us better PVP. PVP that doesn't depend on UI-bind spams and blob focus fire.
I am really a not a fan of this direction where if i want even the most basic in-game info, i have to resort to using some kind of add-on.
I really wish companies would spend more time in making their own UIs actually good instead of doing what ZOS did and basically saying "We're just going to give you a blank screen, if you want antyhing else, make it yourself".
We're talking about very basic things that have been provided by pretty much every MMORPG in existence - ability to find out how much your skill or attack hit for, stuff like that.
In my eyes, the onus is on the game developer to provide the players with the "even playing field". To say, "well, you have all this info via API, but only those of you that know how to make or download an add-on can take advantage of it" just calls out for drama and bickering.
We already have one side calling those that do what zenimax intended (use the info provided via API) "elitist cheaters" and the other side calling those that do the other thing that zenimax intended (play with a clear UI) "ignorant noobs". It really shoudln't be the people that decide what information they get from the game, it should be the developer. To throw it out to the masses and hope for the best is lazy as best and cowardly at worst.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
With so much of the game about pvp, the mod should not be giving advantages. It should be you skill with your build not the strength of your mod that is the difference maker. In my opinion, ZOS should lean towards less rather then more. The hard core pvp guys are not what will make or break this game. If they got half the Skyrim crowd only to buy and subscribe it would still be a huge success.
Many players don't want their screen to look like a F22 Raptor HUD when playing a fantasy MMO. We especially don't want to consistently get face rolled in PVP who are advantaged by an add on.
I left WoW because raid leaders were requiring special mods to get in the raids in addition to gear ratings. I sure hope they do not allow player Inspections.
Better nip this in the bud early rather then later. The ZOS statement gives me hope that player skill will rule in pvp not who has the best add on.
make the molders submit their mod to ZOS for approval or the game will not accept it.
Precisely why they should offer a Cyrodil campaign that disables all add-ons.
It would be great if modders were only creating QoL add-ons, but unfortunately, humans are greedy and will try to cheat any game they can in their favor if they can get away with it. Thus we have the drama we have today. Remove all add-ons, they have been more of a bane than a boon for the MMORPG genre.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Why do you feel you need a mini-map? All it does it turn on easymode. In my day we didn't even have a compass! Just a stupid Sense Direction skill to level up. I still have no idea which way I'm facing! But seriously, it required you to actually learn the land rather than stare at a mini-map. Shoot...I got LOST for the first time in years in a MMO in ESO beta. Felt GREAT!
Another issue is that of shifting baselines. Kids today have grown up with all these MMO conveniences, like mini-maps and auction houses, that they don't know any better and have nothing to compare against. It's a travesty, really, because in the studios' bids to cater to a more casual gamer for more profits they have bred a generation of lazy gamers who would rather be spoonfed information than L2P.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
The question is not about whether or not the game should provide a map or not. The game DOES provide a map - it's quite excellent and detailed - every bit as "easymode" as you're afraid of. The question is whether or not you need to stop running every 3 seconds and press "M" in order to look at it. This doesn't make the game harder, just inconvenient and annoying.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
There is a huge difference between having a sparse and well-designed UI and having NO access to any information whatsoever. Just because i don't want to have giant numbers (or ANY numbers) flying across my screen while i'm fighting, doesn't mean that i don't want there to be a way to find out what my abilities are doing or how i performed in combat.
All kinds of optional information can be added to "on-demand" screens rather than to what you see as you're out in the world. Take the character stats screen, that's in the default game, yet i don't have to look at it when i'm fighting a mob. zomg, brilliant!
sigh.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Could you try that part with the stats screen again but make sense this time?
To me, one of the biggest selling points of ESO is the ability to modify your UI. As it stands, the UI is TOO minimal for me.
My two main beefs are that there is no way to know if you have a buff running and there is no feedback as to what you have looted if you have autoloot running. Also I also want to move my unit frames I can more easily compare my health with that of hte enemy. I want to be able to display more than one quest objective at at time. THANK GOD these can be fixed with mods.
Does that make my UI cluttered? Maybe. But that's my choice.
One of the great strengths of WoW has been the ability to modify your UI. I would posit that it would not have lasted as long as it has without the creativity of the modding community. Most game that allow modding have at least doubled their lifespan because people enjoy the creativity and ability to contribute ... and to a degree the ego boost of having your addons being really popular. With apologies the Full Metal Jacket ... "This is my UI. There are many like it, but this one is mine".
Yes the WoW API went too far in the early days, but Blizzard and consequently other developers (including ZOS) have learned from that experience. You can't automate combat. You can't automate movement. You can't automate using potions. And while it is possible to exploit it using 3rd party software, that's the quickest way to be beaten with the BANHAMMER ... and I hope they do hit them hard and hit them fast.
Without addons, I think ESO would just be relegated to another generic flash-in-the-pan MMO. With the addon community behind it, I reckon it will be much more successful.
I'll tell you a secret - if the player you are fighting dies, you and your "abilities" did just fine. If you died, well then, back to training chap.
Man have mmo's gone backwards or what lol, sense heading brings back many an EQ memory. You also had the option of dropping items on the ground just like TES.