I will not pay 15 bucks a month or play ESO at all if they DISALLOW addons in any area (including pvp).
Why? I don't care if they give advantages. I hate the stock UI. I want more Info. Hell at least give me a freaking BUFF TIMER for MYSELF for gods sake. The UI is lacking so many baseline things that i am unwilling to play a game like this without addons. I do like the pvp tho, so ill be a sub paying guy for a while at least (if addons don't change haha).
Stop crying about "advantages". Look at the stock UI and tell me that is fine for a MMO.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Then dont? i honestly do not understand the crying that's been going on about addons?
it's free of use, u dont want to? then dont.
no one is forcing u to download anything it's just that people tend to cry over it because it could give someone a tiny bit better view over things. guess what? using addon's will not improve crappy playskills and the other way around, not using addons will not damage your skill if you're very skillfull person.
a) The UI shipped with the game is completely inadequate. It's one thing to have a UI that looks bad, but an MMO UI that doesn't show buffs/debuffs etc?
b) The addon does things that should not be possible.
"The addon also does it’s best to prompt the user to take the appropriate response to a variety of abilities, whether that involves blocking, dodging, or interrupting their progress." - that is seriously messed up.
Dont get me wrong i agree, the default UI is the most crappiest i've ever seen in any mmo.
but my point is still the same, there is no one out there that forces u to use it, my point is YOU and YOU alone can say " i will use it " or " nah not my thing ".
About the addon that is unusual good etc, yeah it's unfair but still.
My friend has just bought some really expensive football boots that are better than mine. They provide advantages on the pitch that my boots do not in terms of better grip, manouverability and they also have special textures that allow a player wearing them to leverage more spin on the ball when striking it.
By the rationale of a small minority here I am therefore FORCED to go out and buy the same pair of boots as my friend.
Of course, I have chosen not to...
The point being, at no point have I ever been FORCED to buy them just because someone else benefits from using them in a competetive arena whereas I do not. I could choose to buy them and level the playing field.....but no one is FORCING me to do anything its about personal choice.
You have missed one massive point out! Its free. In your analogy your football friend went and picked up his free boots that are better suited to what he is trying to achieve and you were told where and when to get yours but couldn't be bothered. Your imply a discrepancy where none exists.
Ultimately the addon argument has been made. It has been shown that there is enough interest in an addon free area for it to be on the table.
The original post is more about having the ruleset than it is arguing about addons all over again. If you want to do that you should probably be in the existing thread. So you are not repeating yourself again.
Back on the topic of addon free pvp campaigns. The browser for these campaigns appears to have a section on rules and Zenmax themselves have spoken on alternative rulesets in the past.
Also there are already around 26 pvp campaigns - so the argument that is will fragment the player base to much is a tad off base. They already plan to fragment us. They already plan to have some form of rulesets. I will include a screenshot of the browser below and a link to the reddit topic on this.
Ultimately the argument for addons does not need to be made or justified.
Addon support via a comprehensive API and .LUA scripting has always been in the plan. It has been a stated design goal from the outset and (the remarkably poor default UI aside) the devs have certainly delivered on this commitment.
Those demanding that addons are removed or have some form of "Opt in" mechanism are actually the ones who need to make an argument for thier personal desires as it is those that run in contradiction to that devs original vision for the game.
/justsayin
The argument already has been made. By countless individuals. On Facebook, Reddit, on MMORPG.com, on Massively, even on the forums of the addon creator. There is no longer any need or any point to run in circles. Many of the TC community, including some of the very addon creators like this idea. A few have even spoken up about the API.
Ultimately we don't need to talk to you about it at all. You have already made up your mind. You are solitary individual who has cemented their opinion. While Zenimax is a collective of individuals who answers to higher powers within their organization. If this keeps more players around, appeases said players and if they deem it to have little impact in other areas of the game, then they will pursue it.
Originally posted by gonewild Yeah i agree that addons must be dissabled by zenimax
Considering there is a 'mod' button on the UI ready to go for launch, and that ZOS has said they are aware at how important a modding community is to an online game...
b) The addon does things that should not be possible.
"The addon also does it’s best to prompt the user to take the appropriate response to a variety of abilities, whether that involves blocking, dodging, or interrupting their progress." - that is seriously messed up.
Does what you describe, it's been in WoW since Burning crusade... this isn't news. It doesn't make you a better player unless you are actually in need of training wheels.
Many games have exactly this sort of feature already.
Heck fable had a guild master that kept saying 'Hero, your health is low, do you have any potions or food?'
Originally posted by gonewild Yeah i agree that addons must be dissabled by zenimax
Considering there is a 'mod' button on the UI ready to go for launch, and that ZOS has said they are aware at how important a modding community is to an online game...
Never gunna happen.
Yeah there is pretty much zero chance of them going away entirely. That is why people started thinking outside of the box and coming up with ideas that compromise.
The problem is many still do not know that these things were allowed by Zenimax in the first place. Now they are being educated on the fly as to what is possible and is not possible.
So, basically...since a few of you don't want add-ons the vast majority who always use them should be screwed over to please you...that would be stupid in the extreme....
Originally posted by tmann50 So, basically...since a few of you don't want add-ons the vast majority who always use them should be screwed over to please you...that would be stupid in the extreme....
Statistically speaking with the sample sizes we are getting it is far more than a few currently.
However, what has been proposed does not screw addon users over in any way. Ultimately it would likely cut down on people attacking addons in the first place. Addons would be allowed in pve and they would be allowed on the majority of the pvp campaigns. People are simply asking for a selection of the pvp campaigns to be addon free.
This meets the goals of both groups.
The addon makers and addon users get to have what they desire and use it as they and Zenimax see fit.
The people not interested in addons can ignore them in pve and play the pvp campaign with the special ruleset.
Edit -
This idea was brought up on the TC forums and the creator of Tamriel Foundry Combat (the addon being attacked the most) was on board with the idea.
We just do not know what Zenimax thought. Hell there are enough inventors who regret theior inventions in retrospective, because they were misused in their eyes. Also we do not know who is the majority of players, now who is the vocal minority. But the heat of discussion shows the sides wont be so far away in numbers...
This is why nothing gets done in government. Half the people here are not reading the thread or the post in the thread. They are just immediately going to their default argument and their default argument doesn't help any of us.
Originally posted by tmann50 So, basically...since a few of you don't want add-ons the vast majority who always use them should be screwed over to please you...that would be stupid in the extreme....
Statistically speaking with the sample sizes we are getting it is far more than a few currently.
However, what has been proposed does not screw addon users over in any way. Ultimately it would likely cut down on people attacking addons in the first place. Addons would be allowed in pve and they would be allowed on the majority of the pvp campaigns. People are simply asking for a selection of the pvp campaigns to be addon free.
This meets the goals of both groups.
The addon makers and addon users get to have what they desire and use it as they and Zenimax see fit.
The people not interested in addons can ignore them in pve and play the pvp campaign with the special ruleset.
Edit -
This idea was brought up on the TC forums and the creator of Tamriel Foundry Combat (the addon being attacked the most) was on board with the idea.
Sounds like a fine solution I would be more than happy with that even though I would only be using a small amount of addons anyway
I do not think it will placate the anti addon crowd though. The only outcome they will seem to accept is the officially permitted use of a privacy addon that hides all API information relating to your character from everyone. This addon is apparently currently being tested and apparently works very well.
Coming from someone with a little bit of background in these things. I think that are pulling a fast one and that particular addon is just a bluff, it doesn't exist.
Originally posted by tmann50 So, basically...since a few of you don't want add-ons the vast majority who always use them should be screwed over to please you...that would be stupid in the extreme....
Statistically speaking with the sample sizes we are getting it is far more than a few currently.
However, what has been proposed does not screw addon users over in any way. Ultimately it would likely cut down on people attacking addons in the first place. Addons would be allowed in pve and they would be allowed on the majority of the pvp campaigns. People are simply asking for a selection of the pvp campaigns to be addon free.
This meets the goals of both groups.
The addon makers and addon users get to have what they desire and use it as they and Zenimax see fit.
The people not interested in addons can ignore them in pve and play the pvp campaign with the special ruleset.
Edit -
This idea was brought up on the TC forums and the creator of Tamriel Foundry Combat (the addon being attacked the most) was on board with the idea.
Sounds like a fine solution I would be more than happy with that even though I would only be using a small amount of addons anyway
I do not think it will placate the anti addon crowd though. The only outcome they will seem to accept is the officially permitted use of a privacy addon that hides all API information relating to your character from everyone. This addon is apparently currently being tested and apparently works very well.
Coming from someone with a little bit of background in these things. I think that are pulling a fast one and that particular addon is just a bluff, it doesn't exist.
i have to agree, especially since there is no hook to block information... it would actually be a hack and that would be against TOS
i'm glad massive9 and averum get it though.. that addons wont break or kill the game and no one is being forced to use them, i spend hours arguing in the will addons kill this game thread... with one of the posters whom has popped up in here with his opinion and then tried to get me an infraction on the site, saying i was being "trolling and other things" to which after review from mmorpg.com they removed the warning, as they could see that he was being just as condescending and dismissive of my argument while trying to tell me i was being one sided and unopen to suggestion.
which is what i find funny, the anti-addon crowd is so narrow minded, but quick to judge and label peple who arent again addons.
Originally posted by Mpfive Well since Zen couldn't be bothered to put in dots and debuffs on screen, these addons are highly needed for pvp and pve
The root problem is that the game doesn't give you the option to readily see some basic information. The addon is a band-aid, we should be asking Zen to put in all stuff that should of been there in the first place. And then give players that want a more immersive experience the option to disable whatever they want.
Dot and Debuff on yourself is a must, on others it's debatable.
I should also have the option in-game to make myself anonymous if I want to so my actions aren't available in the api. I shouldn't need to install an addon to do so.
The problem is that those mods will escalate to the point where you will need em to complete some of the content.
When your mod blocks and drink potions for you or when your addon heal and cure you, it is obvious that you will get ''better'' and content will become trivial. Then harder stuff will be asked because it is made too easy by the addition of all those mods. To be able to do that ''harder'' content, people that never bothered with addons will be forced to install em to be able to pass the entry level of that new content.
I am not against addons myself, but in an Elder scroll game I would like it to stay at a minimum.
If Zen doesn't feel like they should give us an option to see some more information, then I don't see a problem with adding a couple mod free campaigns. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Make only 1 and increase the number if there is more demand for it.
i have to agree, especially since there is no hook to block information... it would actually be a hack and that would be against TOS
i'm glad massive9 and averum get it though.. that addons wont break or kill the game and no one is being forced to use them, i spend hours arguing in the will addons kill this game thread... with one of the posters whom has popped up in here with his opinion and then tried to get me an infraction on the site, saying i was being "trolling and other things" to which after review from mmorpg.com they removed the warning, as they could see that he was being just as condescending and dismissive of my argument while trying to tell me i was being one sided and unopen to suggestion.
which is what i find funny, the anti-addon crowd is so narrow minded, but quick to judge and label peple who arent again addons.
I can say some of the same things about a portion of the pro-addon crowd as well.
i have to agree, especially since there is no hook to block information... it would actually be a hack and that would be against TOS
i'm glad massive9 and averum get it though.. that addons wont break or kill the game and no one is being forced to use them, i spend hours arguing in the will addons kill this game thread... with one of the posters whom has popped up in here with his opinion and then tried to get me an infraction on the site, saying i was being "trolling and other things" to which after review from mmorpg.com they removed the warning, as they could see that he was being just as condescending and dismissive of my argument while trying to tell me i was being one sided and unopen to suggestion.
which is what i find funny, the anti-addon crowd is so narrow minded, but quick to judge and label peple who arent again addons.
I can say some of the same things about a portion of the pro-addon crowd as well.
of course, i guess my main point was that zenimax made an API available for the creation of addons.. so regardless on how people feel about it, it's there.
Originally posted by tmann50 So, basically...since a few of you don't want add-ons the vast majority who always use them should be screwed over to please you...that would be stupid in the extreme....
Statistically speaking with the sample sizes we are getting it is far more than a few currently.
However, what has been proposed does not screw addon users over in any way. Ultimately it would likely cut down on people attacking addons in the first place. Addons would be allowed in pve and they would be allowed on the majority of the pvp campaigns. People are simply asking for a selection of the pvp campaigns to be addon free.
This meets the goals of both groups.
The addon makers and addon users get to have what they desire and use it as they and Zenimax see fit.
The people not interested in addons can ignore them in pve and play the pvp campaign with the special ruleset.
Edit -
This idea was brought up on the TC forums and the creator of Tamriel Foundry Combat (the addon being attacked the most) was on board with the idea.
Sounds like a fine solution I would be more than happy with that even though I would only be using a small amount of addons anyway
I do not think it will placate the anti addon crowd though. The only outcome they will seem to accept is the officially permitted use of a privacy addon that hides all API information relating to your character from everyone. This addon is apparently currently being tested and apparently works very well.
Coming from someone with a little bit of background in these things. I think that are pulling a fast one and that particular addon is just a bluff, it doesn't exist.
i have to agree, especially since there is no hook to block information... it would actually be a hack and that would be against TOS
i'm glad massive9 and averum get it though.. that addons wont break or kill the game and no one is being forced to use them, i spend hours arguing in the will addons kill this game thread... with one of the posters whom has popped up in here with his opinion and then tried to get me an infraction on the site, saying i was being "trolling and other things" to which after review from mmorpg.com they removed the warning, as they could see that he was being just as condescending and dismissive of my argument while trying to tell me i was being one sided and unopen to suggestion.
which is what i find funny, the anti-addon crowd is so narrow minded, but quick to judge and label peple who arent again addons.
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock Play the Ps4 version, chances are it's going to feel more polished on the ps4 anyhow.
Going to be both hilarious and sad if that turns out to be the case. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the console versions end up being the dominate market in the end. Since (for example) only 19% of the Skyrim copies were sold on PC.
That's the thing, if no one uses addons, you are going head to head. You all have the same interface to interact with. It's when you add the uses of addons that it becomes not ''head to head''. The one using the most complete set of addons will have an edge.
That's like using a spotter in baseball game to know what the pitcher is going to throw. So you can have all the information. Unless everyone uses the same addons, it becomes and advantage for someone.
I don't think anyone is against getting the information you are asking for, people are against the fact that not everyone will have it readily accessible in-game.
Comments
I will not pay 15 bucks a month or play ESO at all if they DISALLOW addons in any area (including pvp).
Why? I don't care if they give advantages. I hate the stock UI. I want more Info. Hell at least give me a freaking BUFF TIMER for MYSELF for gods sake. The UI is lacking so many baseline things that i am unwilling to play a game like this without addons. I do like the pvp tho, so ill be a sub paying guy for a while at least (if addons don't change haha).
Stop crying about "advantages". Look at the stock UI and tell me that is fine for a MMO.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Dont get me wrong i agree, the default UI is the most crappiest i've ever seen in any mmo.
but my point is still the same, there is no one out there that forces u to use it, my point is YOU and YOU alone can say " i will use it " or " nah not my thing ".
About the addon that is unusual good etc, yeah it's unfair but still.
You have missed one massive point out! Its free. In your analogy your football friend went and picked up his free boots that are better suited to what he is trying to achieve and you were told where and when to get yours but couldn't be bothered. Your imply a discrepancy where none exists.
Ultimately the addon argument has been made. It has been shown that there is enough interest in an addon free area for it to be on the table.
The original post is more about having the ruleset than it is arguing about addons all over again. If you want to do that you should probably be in the existing thread. So you are not repeating yourself again.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/405809/Will-ADDONS-kill-this-game-.html
Back on the topic of addon free pvp campaigns. The browser for these campaigns appears to have a section on rules and Zenmax themselves have spoken on alternative rulesets in the past.
Also there are already around 26 pvp campaigns - so the argument that is will fragment the player base to much is a tad off base. They already plan to fragment us. They already plan to have some form of rulesets. I will include a screenshot of the browser below and a link to the reddit topic on this.
http://redd.it/1zkgde (70% like)
The argument already has been made. By countless individuals. On Facebook, Reddit, on MMORPG.com, on Massively, even on the forums of the addon creator. There is no longer any need or any point to run in circles. Many of the TC community, including some of the very addon creators like this idea. A few have even spoken up about the API.
Ultimately we don't need to talk to you about it at all. You have already made up your mind. You are solitary individual who has cemented their opinion. While Zenimax is a collective of individuals who answers to higher powers within their organization. If this keeps more players around, appeases said players and if they deem it to have little impact in other areas of the game, then they will pursue it.
Considering there is a 'mod' button on the UI ready to go for launch, and that ZOS has said they are aware at how important a modding community is to an online game...
Never gunna happen.
This b part doesn't make sense to me.
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/clcret
Does what you describe, it's been in WoW since Burning crusade... this isn't news. It doesn't make you a better player unless you are actually in need of training wheels.
Many games have exactly this sort of feature already.
Heck fable had a guild master that kept saying 'Hero, your health is low, do you have any potions or food?'
Yeah there is pretty much zero chance of them going away entirely. That is why people started thinking outside of the box and coming up with ideas that compromise.
The problem is many still do not know that these things were allowed by Zenimax in the first place. Now they are being educated on the fly as to what is possible and is not possible.
Statistically speaking with the sample sizes we are getting it is far more than a few currently.
However, what has been proposed does not screw addon users over in any way. Ultimately it would likely cut down on people attacking addons in the first place. Addons would be allowed in pve and they would be allowed on the majority of the pvp campaigns. People are simply asking for a selection of the pvp campaigns to be addon free.
This meets the goals of both groups.
The addon makers and addon users get to have what they desire and use it as they and Zenimax see fit.
The people not interested in addons can ignore them in pve and play the pvp campaign with the special ruleset.
Edit -
This idea was brought up on the TC forums and the creator of Tamriel Foundry Combat (the addon being attacked the most) was on board with the idea.
Keep Add-Ons for PVE
Disable them for PVP
Sounds fine to me.
No that is not fine and that is not what this thread is even about. Stop going in circles. This can not be a for and against argument.
Coming from someone with a little bit of background in these things. I think that are pulling a fast one and that particular addon is just a bluff, it doesn't exist.
i have to agree, especially since there is no hook to block information... it would actually be a hack and that would be against TOS
i'm glad massive9 and averum get it though.. that addons wont break or kill the game and no one is being forced to use them, i spend hours arguing in the will addons kill this game thread... with one of the posters whom has popped up in here with his opinion and then tried to get me an infraction on the site, saying i was being "trolling and other things" to which after review from mmorpg.com they removed the warning, as they could see that he was being just as condescending and dismissive of my argument while trying to tell me i was being one sided and unopen to suggestion.
which is what i find funny, the anti-addon crowd is so narrow minded, but quick to judge and label peple who arent again addons.
The root problem is that the game doesn't give you the option to readily see some basic information. The addon is a band-aid, we should be asking Zen to put in all stuff that should of been there in the first place. And then give players that want a more immersive experience the option to disable whatever they want.
Dot and Debuff on yourself is a must, on others it's debatable.
I should also have the option in-game to make myself anonymous if I want to so my actions aren't available in the api. I shouldn't need to install an addon to do so.
The problem is that those mods will escalate to the point where you will need em to complete some of the content.
When your mod blocks and drink potions for you or when your addon heal and cure you, it is obvious that you will get ''better'' and content will become trivial. Then harder stuff will be asked because it is made too easy by the addition of all those mods. To be able to do that ''harder'' content, people that never bothered with addons will be forced to install em to be able to pass the entry level of that new content.
I am not against addons myself, but in an Elder scroll game I would like it to stay at a minimum.
If Zen doesn't feel like they should give us an option to see some more information, then I don't see a problem with adding a couple mod free campaigns. Shouldn't be hard to implement. Make only 1 and increase the number if there is more demand for it.
I can say some of the same things about a portion of the pro-addon crowd as well.
of course, i guess my main point was that zenimax made an API available for the creation of addons.. so regardless on how people feel about it, it's there.
the irony...
Going to be both hilarious and sad if that turns out to be the case. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the console versions end up being the dominate market in the end. Since (for example) only 19% of the Skyrim copies were sold on PC.
That's the thing, if no one uses addons, you are going head to head. You all have the same interface to interact with. It's when you add the uses of addons that it becomes not ''head to head''. The one using the most complete set of addons will have an edge.
That's like using a spotter in baseball game to know what the pitcher is going to throw. So you can have all the information. Unless everyone uses the same addons, it becomes and advantage for someone.
I don't think anyone is against getting the information you are asking for, people are against the fact that not everyone will have it readily accessible in-game.