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No Underwater Swimming Or Combat? Ya...Definitely Not Buying This

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  • seacow1gseacow1g Member UncommonPosts: 266
    Originally posted by Arataki

    It's just a different expectation. 

    Some developers want to sell you a game. Some want to sell you a world. Some want to sell you a story. Some want to sell you activities.

    The OP sounds like he wants a 'world' while ESO is a 'game.' Which is legit. However, what is not is assuming that developers that are selling a game are somehow 'doing you wrong' by making a game, and not what you personally want, a world. Feel free to not buy it, your reasons are your own. And their reasons are theirs.

    But you are not telling them 'you won't get away with this!' or 'I won't pay for cut corners!' or anything else by not buying. All you are saying is 'I am not your intended audience.' And if their market projections were any good, they already knew that.

    Good luck finding your world, OP.

    I agree, I am not the intended audience. Yours is probably the most logical "against" argument I've heard. If it sounds like I'm saying they are "doing me wrong" it's because of the franchise. TES is a franchise that was literally built upon and succeeded by letting you "do more" . And that's exactly the kind of player I am, the kind that wants to "do more". I know that this is Zenimax and not Bethesda but this is why I am disappointed, because I expected more out of this franchise and out of this genre. That is the only reason I'm upset about it. I have no problem waiting and paying for games that cater to me though, I just felt obligated to give my opinion about this subject because of the franchise that this game is based upon.

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  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance Member Posts: 1,223

    I can see exactly where you are coming from in your OP. You have the old idea of MMORPGs being virtual worlds and therefore being worthy of a subscription every month because they are perpetual, much like I do. There is a disconnect between TESO and the single player ES games wherein the latter are virtual worlds that you explore and interact with but TESO asks for a monthly subscription on top of it and provides more game but less world.

    I know a lot of people bash WoW, but it has many of the basic immersive elements you mentioned and one of my favorite things to do is to enteract with that world. It is still such a beautifully crafted virtual world despite the fact that some other aspects of the (recent) game might let it down.

    I think Zenimax should seriously consider putting water in as a large strategic entity even if they never allow true underwater combat (which has its downsides). It could become an interesting element to RvR for example, like in the case of a marine invasion being organized, setting up ambushes, scouting from unexpected places, etc.

     

    Edit - we should definitely ask devs to add more to the games as far as interactiveness goes. It seems we are seeing less from some AAA devs in comparison to games that released a while ago, like WoW, with those things in.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • IGaveUpIGaveUp Member Posts: 273
    Originally posted by Deathenger
    Underwater combat and such has always just annoyed me. I couldnt wait to end any required quests or venturing into the deeps. Sounds like a plus to me.

     

    Same.  Lack of under water content for me is a non-issue.

     

  • ZeroPointNRGZeroPointNRG Member Posts: 70

    I hope they don't waste money and time instituting underwater content in ESO. Underwater combat is usually a pretty abysmal experience in MMOs, Vashj'ir was one of the most loathed WoW zones for a reason.

     

    It's just like on land, except now you're 300% slower, yay!

  • Jagwar_FangJagwar_Fang Member UncommonPosts: 264
    Originally posted by Randallt3mp
    Originally posted by time007

    This is a joke post.  Please people stop posting and replying.  OMG don't feed this guys joke.  He's completely jerking everyone's chain. hahahah. 

     

    I can't believe you guys think that the OP is serious. hahaha.  Wow, people will believe anything they read.  He's clearly kidding and taking the joke as far as people will allow him to. 

    Wanna know whats even funnier.  People attacking the OP and rabidly defending this game like its their baby.  Now THAT is funny. 

    For me personally a game lacking these features is not gamebreaking, and ESO has many more significant flaws than that.  However many people come into an mmo not just for a 'game' experience, but for an immersive virtual world.  Skyrim had diving underwater, and several other mmos do too.  But I bet you the rabid defenders are gonna say "its not possible in mmos" anyway....

    Basically, you don't have to agree with the OP, but to try and belittle him and other posters to make you feel better about "your baby" is just sad.

    Although some are belittling the OP because they are fanbois, this situation occurs in every single game on this website.  I personally feel that the OP is hypercritical  and doesn't understand software development period or is trolling.  He wants an immersive virtual world ok, no problem.  I have a few ideas that should be added as well in the name of creating an immersive virtual world:

    1.  Eating and drinking should be vital to your character remaining alive vice giving buffs?  I mean, I always get more agility when I eat fish and more stamina when I eat beef. That's so realistic but he isn't complaining about that now is he.

    2.  Why not implement a permadeath if you don't drink water in a 72 hour period? 

    3.  If we must eat and drink, we need to add a honeypot to the inventory so you can take care of business after we eat. 

    4.  Why not make sleep mandatory as well or you have a debuff that gets worse the longer you go without sleep. 

    5.  Why not require an average of 8 hours of sleep out of 24?  What fun that would be.  Log in and tell your guildies,"Sorry guys, can't group for another 6 hours and 37 minutes.  I'm sleeping and need my beauty rest."

    All of those are out there of course and a bit sarcastic but they were to make a point.  Where do the devs draw the line?  These companies do not have limitless budgets and no deadlines either.  It all comes down to money, time and priorities.  If the OP can't understand that then maybe video games aren't for him.    If the devs had diverted the resources necessary to implement these two minor features (swimming underwater and sitting in chairs), how many more would be here freaking out because the game was missing more important features? 

    If he doesn't want to play fine.  But by constantly defending his stance here he is proving that he is doesn't understand S/W development, trolling, or both.

  • MordithMordith Member UncommonPosts: 210
    My favorite zone in EQ was Kedge Keep so I somewhat agree with the OP.  It's not game breaking for me but I still think that a subscription-based game should include such a basic concept that has been around for ages.
  • HellbabeHellbabe Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Do you can underwater swimming in Skyrim or Oblivion? No. And if you have no Lore to do that, why for hell it has been in that game??? Sry but really lame and boaring post^^
  • seacow1gseacow1g Member UncommonPosts: 266
    Originally posted by Bannuk
    Originally posted by Randallt3mp
    Originally posted by time007

    This is a joke post.  Please people stop posting and replying.  OMG don't feed this guys joke.  He's completely jerking everyone's chain. hahahah. 

     

    I can't believe you guys think that the OP is serious. hahaha.  Wow, people will believe anything they read.  He's clearly kidding and taking the joke as far as people will allow him to. 

    Wanna know whats even funnier.  People attacking the OP and rabidly defending this game like its their baby.  Now THAT is funny. 

    For me personally a game lacking these features is not gamebreaking, and ESO has many more significant flaws than that.  However many people come into an mmo not just for a 'game' experience, but for an immersive virtual world.  Skyrim had diving underwater, and several other mmos do too.  But I bet you the rabid defenders are gonna say "its not possible in mmos" anyway....

    Basically, you don't have to agree with the OP, but to try and belittle him and other posters to make you feel better about "your baby" is just sad.

    Although some are belittling the OP because they are fanbois, this situation occurs in every single game on this website.  I personally feel that the OP is hypercritical  and doesn't understand software development period or is trolling.  He wants an immersive virtual world ok, no problem.  I have a few ideas that should be added as well in the name of creating an immersive virtual world:

    1.  Eating and drinking should be vital to your character remaining alive vice giving buffs?  I mean, I always get more agility when I eat fish and more stamina when I eat beef. That's so realistic but he isn't complaining about that now is he.

    2.  Why not implement a permadeath if you don't drink water in a 72 hour period? 

    3.  If we must eat and drink, we need to add a honeypot to the inventory so you can take care of business after we eat. 

    4.  Why not make sleep mandatory as well or you have a debuff that gets worse the longer you go without sleep. 

    5.  Why not require an average of 8 hours of sleep out of 24?  What fun that would be.  Log in and tell your guildies,"Sorry guys, can't group for another 6 hours and 37 minutes.  I'm sleeping and need my beauty rest."

    All of those are out there of course and a bit sarcastic but they were to make a point.  Where do the devs draw the line?  These companies do not have limitless budgets and no deadlines either.  It all comes down to money, time and priorities.  If the OP can't understand that then maybe video games aren't for him.    If the devs had diverted the resources necessary to implement these two minor features (swimming underwater and sitting in chairs), how many more would be here freaking out because the game was missing more important features? 

    If he doesn't want to play fine.  But by constantly defending his stance here he is proving that he is doesn't understand S/W development, trolling, or both.

    I do understand development, and I assure you I'm not trolling either; this genuinely bothers me. Why? Because it's a game from THE franchise that formed my view on how to do a single player virtual world in a genre that used to be represent the epitome of virtual worlds (MMORPGs). I am disappointed because things so small as swimming underwater and sitting in chairs (things that they included in their single player games) that would not pose any kind of difficulty of implementing in an online game were seen as unnecessary and left out. 

     

    Player housing and stealing from said houses obviously pose a number of design problems in a massive multiplayer environment and thus I could forgive them not being there. But why leave out proper swimming and sitting in chairs? We'll never be able to find an entrance/exit to/from a dungeon at the bottom of a lake now and we'll never be able to pretend we're sitting and drinking beers in a bar now. I'm defending my stance because these things matter to me and players like me, and we expected better from a franchise like TES.

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  • Lord_AthonLord_Athon Member UncommonPosts: 165
    Originally posted by seacow1g

    I gave the beta a try this weekend and let me tell you: I actually found that they did a lot of things right in this game. Props to the devs for all the work they put in. I'm especially impressed how successful they've been in their implementation of mass pvp.  I would go into more detail of all the little things I found that were well designed in this game except I found that they took out one often ignored feature that  made me decide that this is NOT a world that I want to settle in: the inability to dive underwater.

     

    I'm sorry but this is gamebreaking for me. Do I spend a lot of time underwater in games? No. Do I care much for underwater combat? No.  Do I think you should be able to hold your breath alot and swim underwater forever? No (I actually like how it works in Skyrim and Oblivion). But it's just something you "do" in virtual worlds. It's a little interaction with the world that has existed for a long time now and I see no reason to take it out (especially when your gameworld has so much water). It's just as important to me as jumping or emotes; I don't spend much time doing either of those things but take it out and the gameworld just doesn't feel "right". There's so many kinds of adventures and exploration that a player can never have now because they chose to not allow underwater swimming in any form; very disappointing.

     

    Now before this devolves into an argument about whether or not they intend to keep diving out of the game, I just want to point out that there have been numerous forums posts about this and there has been no indication that they intend to change this. On the contrary they actually use your inability to dive and fight underwater as a wall mechanic to zones i.e. you get eaten by slaughterfish that you can't fight back against if you try to swim too far out to sea. I'm assuming for all intents and purposes that this design decision is here to stay, and I cannot abide it.

    First i thought OP was joking. image

    Ok im sorry, everyone has the right to have their own opinion, and give importance to minor details (minor for me, major for the OP and probably others), that can shut off the amusing experience in a game. But i think it's getting a bit boring all of these posts about «I Won't buy ESO because...»

    Maybe it's just me.

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  • seacow1gseacow1g Member UncommonPosts: 266
    Originally posted by Hellbabe
    Do you can underwater swimming in Skyrim or Oblivion? No. And if you have no Lore to do that, why for hell it has been in that game??? Sry but really lame and boaring post^^

    You CAN swim and even fight underwater in Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact there's even some very interesting things to be found underwater in those games. The represent how underwater SHOULD be used in a game: Dangerous, often uneventful, used sparingly but sometimes very exciting and with things to discover.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by seacow1g
    Originally posted by Hellbabe
    Do you can underwater swimming in Skyrim or Oblivion? No. And if you have no Lore to do that, why for hell it has been in that game??? Sry but really lame and boaring post^^

    You CAN swim and even fight underwater in Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact there's even some very interesting things to be found underwater in those games. The represent how underwater SHOULD be used in a game: Dangerous, often uneventful, used sparingly but sometimes very exciting and with things to discover.

    Actually, and not to be picayune, you can't fight under water in skyrim.

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  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Guis halp a feature that I admit to not caring about is absent from the game, so for that reason I'm "Definitely not buying this." Really? Really? Please reach a little bit harder for an excuse to not play.
  • CalkrowCalkrow Member UncommonPosts: 92

    This is at least the third thread, there may have been more I've missed, about this fact.

     

    In Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn, one of the top voted games here on MMORPG.COM, you can't even swim let alone swim underwater.

     

    GET OVER IT!

    Forum Post count does not = Game Intelligence or Knowledge  it just shows how often people like to talk.
  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 Member Posts: 2,735
    The OP never had any intention of buying the game.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Underwater skills is one reason I play GW2, and why I was a Druid in WOW.  I also do underwater quests in Skyrim. It's strange that a game that has an underwater race doesn't have underwater content for that race.  Perhaps they will add it later.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855

    I voted no. I can live without it. GW2 probably has the most developed underwater combat system, and even in that game, people only fight underwater when they must.

  • ColdrenColdren Member UncommonPosts: 495
    Originally posted by seacow1g

    You CAN swim and even fight underwater in Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact there's even some very interesting things to be found underwater in those games. The represent how underwater SHOULD be used in a game: Dangerous, often uneventful, used sparingly but sometimes very exciting and with things to discover.

     

    Hmmm.. Don't recall being able to even draw my weapon under water in Skyrim.. Swim, of course, but not fight.

    Incidentally, I wouldn't worry about it. They will likely do what they did with DAoC (Since most of them come from there). They didn't have under water combat either until the third expansion. But they did it right, and it was worth the wait.

    IF it's needed, I'm sure they'll get around to it. But there's so much for me to do on land, not concerned about the ability to swim or fight from water just yet.

  • seacow1gseacow1g Member UncommonPosts: 266
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by seacow1g
    Originally posted by Hellbabe
    Do you can underwater swimming in Skyrim or Oblivion? No. And if you have no Lore to do that, why for hell it has been in that game??? Sry but really lame and boaring post^^

    You CAN swim and even fight underwater in Skyrim and Oblivion. In fact there's even some very interesting things to be found underwater in those games. The represent how underwater SHOULD be used in a game: Dangerous, often uneventful, used sparingly but sometimes very exciting and with things to discover.

    Actually, and not to be picayune, you can't fight under water in skyrim.

    Ya you're right. It was typed wrong, I meant in Oblivion you could fight underwater but in both you can swim underwater and find interesting stuff there sometimes....which at the end of the day is what matters to me most.

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  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,191
    Originally posted by johnisme
    Can't climb trees in the game,that's way to important to leave out.

    You can't? I didn't know that. Now I'm not playing!!!!!!! lol.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Honestly this is the lamest thing I have ever read...

     Agreed, all to there own but this is indeed the lamest reason I've ever heard for someone not to play a game that otherwise they seem to like. Especially when the OP basically states combat and time underwater isn't that important to him. Really sounds like the OP is just trying to make up a reason in his own mind why not to buy and play the game.

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Ask yourself this, how would skyrim feel if you couldn't swim in water, or in wow you either skidded over water or bounced over an invisible boundary. There's a reason mmorgs evolved underwater - immersion.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,960

    "I don't particularly like a certain feature, but because a game doesn't have it I'm not going to buy it!"

    Did you make this post while drunk or something? Because this is definitely in the top 5 most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site... or any MMO site, for that matter.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    YoU realise your attacking the op for an opinion about a feature that has been debated for many years and identified universally as a good thing (not talking about any particular game here)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,191
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

    "I don't particularly like a certain feature, but because a game doesn't have it I'm not going to buy it!"

    Did you make this post while drunk or something? Because this is definitely in the top 5 most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site... or any MMO site, for that matter.

    I don't think I could prioritize the top 5 in these forums. Too many. That would stress me out lol.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Ask yourself this, how would skyrim feel if you couldn't swim in water, or in wow you either skidded over water or bounced over an invisible boundary. There's a reason mmorgs evolved underwater - immersion.

    SWG was the most immersive experience I've had in a game, did you ever see the water in that game? Anyway you can swim in water in ESO, you can actually use it as a short cut if you don't get eaten, I did multiple times. It even has some nice physics in place in regard to weight and sounds. You just can't swim under the water you swim across it.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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