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"Dynamic Difficulty" so what's the point of playing now? Enemy Level Scaling LOFL

VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Erie, PAPosts: 735Member Uncommon

So I downloaded the game again to check out 2.0 and I thought

"HOLY SHIT!  Look at all these difficulty levels!  This is going to be awesome!"

 

haha, NOPE!  "Dynamic Difficulty".   In other words....  All sound and fury but no rain baby.  Your numbers don't mean A THING.  Enjoy those higher drop rates?  Well why does it even matter!? lol

 

Now am I missing something?  Does the system mean anything once you start cranking up the Torment levels?  Does gear decide the level of the enemy you face?

 

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Comments

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    I am wondering, did you even play? I would assume that is the best way to figure these things out. Totally not getting that vibe from this post... Maybe it's just me...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Erie, PAPosts: 735Member Uncommon

    Yeah I've been playing and it looks like I can just level up indefinitely by playing the very first map outside of Tristam without paying much attention to anything including my stats.

     

    So I got on the forum here to ask the question of whether or not this changes at some point.  

     

    I don't feel like playing this game if enemies are just going to be nonchalantly scaled to my level no matter what difficulty I pick.  That's what console action games are for.

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    Yeah I've been playing and it looks like I can just level up indefinitely by playing the very first map outside of Tristam without paying much attention to anything including my stats.

     

    So I got on the forum here to ask the question of whether or not this changes at some point.  

     

    I don't feel like playing this game if enemies are just going to be nonchalantly scaled to my level no matter what difficulty I pick.  That's what console action games are for.

     

    The main idea is that when you find a level of challenge you like (expert/master/torment/etc) then you can stay at that setting with increasingly harder mobs as your character is increasingly better suited to handle them. You don't need to go back and forth via the different difficulty settings to try and find that sweet spot every time you level or upgrade gear. The trial and error of the previous system was stupid and wasted time trying to find what felt right and fun, so now you find the level of challenge you want and can stay there, or bump it up if the game feels too easy on a whole.

     

    So basically the torment level equals the challenge you want against your skill with a chosen build, while the dynamic difficulty accounts for your character's gear and level constantly changing (occuring a hell of a lot after loot 2.0).

     

    Edit: You added the 3rd paragraph after I posted, so two things... First of all, this is a console action rpg now lol. You missed the memo. Secondly, it's scaled because it should retain the level of fun challenge you want vs. everything suddenly getting stupidly easy after one good upgrade or every few levels.

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Another way to look at it is how you would have previously started a new character compared to now. You would want to start off in master or torment now because you know how to play the game regardless of making a low level character and want a decent challenge. Obviously the way it was before, you would have to trudge through the boring settings of normal, nightmare, hell, etc. to gear up and unlock a more entertaining challenge.
  • SonofSethSonofSeth ZagrebPosts: 1,884Member
    Well, I went in to check out how it works, made a HC Wizard... 13 hours, 40 minutes later I killed Diablo. I guess it works fine.

    image

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Erie, PAPosts: 735Member Uncommon

    Do stats mean anything though?

     

    I've been playing on expert.  Will I ever feel like my levels mean anything, or my my gear is overpowering the monsters?  Or will it just feel like I'm playing wack a mole forever and ever?

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    Do stats mean anything though?

     

    I've been playing on expert.  Will I ever feel like my levels mean anything, or my my gear is overpowering the monsters?  Or will it just feel like I'm playing wack a mole forever and ever?

    But....diablo IS wack a mole forever...

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    Do stats mean anything though?

     

    I've been playing on expert.  Will I ever feel like my levels mean anything, or my my gear is overpowering the monsters?  Or will it just feel like I'm playing wack a mole forever and ever?

    You must be new to the genre...

     

    Anyway.  Here's what you do:  play the game, and if you don't enjoy it, then stop playing it.  If you do enjoy it, then continue playing.

    You make me like charity

  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    Do stats mean anything though?

     

    I've been playing on expert.  Will I ever feel like my levels mean anything, or my my gear is overpowering the monsters?  Or will it just feel like I'm playing wack a mole forever and ever?

    I dont recall levels ever meaning anything in the Diablo series. It was all about finding that next piece of gear and "whack a mole" onward (it is Diablo afterall the grandfather of hack and slash). The only reason levels mattered was so you could equip that next piece of gear.

    Here levels only matter for gear and what skills you get and runes you get to equip with said abilities and spells. So technically they do matter, but it's not make or break. 

    I hated D3 when it was released and haven't played in a LONG time. I'm finding 2.0 really hits the spot for me and I've been playing the past couple of days. This is what the game should have been on release. 

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    Do stats mean anything though?

     

    I've been playing on expert.  Will I ever feel like my levels mean anything, or my my gear is overpowering the monsters?  Or will it just feel like I'm playing wack a mole forever and ever?

     

    From what I've seen, the mobs get increasingly chaotic and take longer to kill as you progress especially when fighting a couple packs of elites with a lot of affixes. Dynamic difficulty doesn't erase the learning curve now more directly associated with the whole game's difficulty instead of mob difficulty. You need to improve to face the higher difficulty levels or master, torment, torment+, etc. The dynamic part only accounts for the two factors that change so often (level/stats/gear) that you'd be constantly exiting and readjusting the difficulty setting to find any decent challenge.

     

    I think it only feels like whack a mole if the difficulty is too easy so I'd suggest trying master or torment. If a player wants to overpower the mobs, then they play on normal. The mobs will still grow in strength and learn new skills (affixes) as time goes on with better gear, but you will always have the edge to overpower them.

     

    Edit: Then again, I almost always play a healer on MMOs which is whack-a-mole centric lol So maybe it's just not for you like others have said.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    uh? have you actually tried?

    Difficulty is controlled by an option. Enemy level is not equal to challenge. No one should complains about D3 difficulty level. T6 is too difficult for everyone (unless you have super gear .. and no one has that at L70), and too easy at the lowest level.

    There is always a sweet spot for you.

     

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Erie, PAPosts: 735Member Uncommon

    So has anybody figured out yet if the gear you have equipped or on you has any effect on the difficulty of the enemies you face?

     

    I can't find any official posts on it and I've seen some people say gear has no effect.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,523Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    So has anybody figured out yet if the gear you have equipped or on you has any effect on the difficulty of the enemies you face?

     

    I can't find any official posts on it and I've seen some people say gear has no effect.

    It doesnt - master, torment sliders determine the difficulty of enemies you face.

    The dynamic scaling only affects monster levels (Example doing act 1 at level 60 you will fight level 60 monsters)

    Your gear stats have no effect on how though they are - difficulty tiers (torment etc....) determine that.

     

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Missoula, MTPosts: 1,103Member

    Let me get this straight here.

     

    I could be wearing the best level max level gear in the game and as long as I set the difficulty hard,  It would be the exact same as if I had been wearing the most crapy max level gear and set the slider down to low or medium?

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,523Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Knotwood

    Let me get this straight here.

     

    I could be wearing the best level max level gear in the game and as long as I set the difficulty hard,  It would be the exact same as if I had been wearing the most crapy max level gear and set the slider down to low or medium?

    Gear has no effect on scaling.

    Levels are the only thing that scale automatically.

    Example at lvl 70 even if you go back to Act1 Normal - you will be fighting level 70 mobs - but they will be on normal difficulty.

    If you are naked or wearing the best gear - your level doesn't change, so the mobs will still be lvl 70 if your level is 70 - that's why gear has no effect - remember only thing that scales is levels.

    What makes monsters more difficult is setting the game difficulty setting - example Torment6 is SUPER hard compared to Torment1.

    You can change difficulty setting at any time now - you can start a brand new lvl 1 character and set the game at Torment6 (I think you still have to beat Diablo once to get the Torment setting)- you won't be able to kill anything but they let you set the difficulty to whatever you want at any point.

  • cerockscerocks PenicuikPosts: 33Member
    Gear has no baring on the mobs you face within a difficulty. It is the slider which does this, gear just determines your ability to deal with a certain difficulty. If you were to set the difficulty to torment VI the mobs would be the same whether you were wearing full legendary gear or no gear at all.  There are certain bonuses for being able to progress through the difficulties however, i.e increased exp, increased gold and drop rates.
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    You have to be level 60 to play on Torment, so the "level scaling" really only effects Normal Hard Expert Master.

    The difficulty scales their health as well as the XP and gold you find, I think that's it.

    So even if the mob is scaling in level with you, on higher difficulty it still will have scaled health * x%

     

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Erie, PAPosts: 735Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by VicodinTaco

    So has anybody figured out yet if the gear you have equipped or on you has any effect on the difficulty of the enemies you face?

     

    I can't find any official posts on it and I've seen some people say gear has no effect.

    It doesnt - master, torment sliders determine the difficulty of enemies you face.

    The dynamic scaling only affects monster levels (Example doing act 1 at level 60 you will fight level 60 monsters)

    Your gear stats have no effect on how though they are - difficulty tiers (torment etc....) determine that.

     

    Alright, with this in mind and after playing some, this is not as bad then as I had started off saying in my original post.

    Still not the greatest though.  I'll have to try a bit more game time to see if I start to feel any type of progression.

     

    Will see if I can get a couple days or more out of D3 while the new POE update gets fleshed out. 

  • RedrumerRedrumer Winnipeg, MBPosts: 13Member Common
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    You have to be level 60 to play on Torment,

     

     

    You need to HAVE a level 60 to play on Torment. I was playing hardcore level 1 toons on Torment 6 last night. It took over 5 minutes to get into town. Doing 3-5 damage to mobs with over 3000 health. We moved it down to master and had a really good time. Full party wipe to some frozen elites. Getting to the skeleton king at level 30 is kinda strange, but overall very fun.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Redrumer
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    You have to be level 60 to play on Torment,

     

     

    You need to HAVE a level 60 to play on Torment. I was playing hardcore level 1 toons on Torment 6 last night. It took over 5 minutes to get into town. Doing 3-5 damage to mobs with over 3000 health. We moved it down to master and had a really good time. Full party wipe to some frozen elites. Getting to the skeleton king at level 30 is kinda strange, but overall very fun.

    Yes, that is correct sorry. 

    That does sound like fun. Insane, but fun for the insanity of it :)

  • Darknessguy64Darknessguy64 Darkness, CAPosts: 233Member
    Maybe I was doing it wrong but...When leveling my Hardcore Barb, the game won't allow me to adjust the difficulty. I haven't tried while on the main menu screen tho. Just while in game. And I don't have a lvl 60 Hardcore character.
  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darknessguy64
    Maybe I was doing it wrong but...When leveling my Hardcore Barb, the game won't allow me to adjust the difficulty. I haven't tried while on the main menu screen tho. Just while in game. And I don't have a lvl 60 Hardcore character.

     

    You can lower the difficulty but can't increase it from the game menu during a game. You can increase/decrease it before resuming or starting a new session under the 'game settings' option right below 'resume game'. You'll have access to all the difficulty settings except torment (normal, hard, expert, and master) and then you'll have torment after your first level 60.

     

    The more I play it, the more I think this is the best thing they changed out of everything. I'm playing my low level caracters again because it's so much more fun to have a challenge right from the beginning instead of having to go through 3-4 playthroughs to start having fun. I think any setting between Master to Torment 3 is perfect for people who know how to play. Master is great prior to finding a decent skill build. I'm enjoying Torment 2 a lot on my monk. I have a pretty fun build while it's easy enough that I don't need to stack defensive stats and gear any more. I could probably do Torment 3 or 4 focusing on defensive stats/gear/skills/gear but I don't think it would be as fun. That's the beauty of it. It can accomodate any playstyle and desired level of challenge now.

  • Darknessguy64Darknessguy64 Darkness, CAPosts: 233Member
    Thanks Irish. I'll bump it up one level of difficulty to see how it goes. I don't want to change it too much at one time on Hardcore...heh.
  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    I'm going to post my thoughts on the Dynamic Difficulty.  IT BLOWS.

    There, I said it.  It is the worst thing they actually could of done.  What is the point of leveling anymore until the point of Skeleton King?  There isn't any.  I want my legendary drop to be at 60 or 70.  I want to feel powerful and get good drops, not feel my power struggle the entire time.

    I only play Hardcore for the most part.  Started a new toon got him to 52 before I made a mistake and died in the crypts (just under 8 hrs with this exp boost)  Minimal tweaking which was only using some mid range rubies I had.

    I fail to see the point anymore.  Sure some cool new builds may pop up with some of the nice cooldown ratios available but, leveling which I find the fun part has been killed.  Making a new toon is about as boring as can be.  I actually think I'm going to cancel my pre-order for this game.  I can't see a point in playing a game that has zero enticing features other than go loot, the challenge of having to continue on has been eliminated for the most part.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kilun

    I'm going to post my thoughts on the Dynamic Difficulty.  IT BLOWS.

    There, I said it.  It is the worst thing they actually could of done.  What is the point of leveling anymore until the point of Skeleton King?  There isn't any.  I want my legendary drop to be at 60 or 70.  I want to feel powerful and get good drops, not feel my power struggle the entire time.

    I only play Hardcore for the most part.  Started a new toon got him to 52 before I made a mistake and died in the crypts (just under 8 hrs with this exp boost)  Minimal tweaking which was only using some mid range rubies I had.

    I fail to see the point anymore.  Sure some cool new builds may pop up with some of the nice cooldown ratios available but, leveling which I find the fun part has been killed.  Making a new toon is about as boring as can be.  I actually think I'm going to cancel my pre-order for this game.  I can't see a point in playing a game that has zero enticing features other than go loot, the challenge of having to continue on has been eliminated for the most part.

     

    It'll probably be obvious based on my previous post, but I think the complete opposite. How is it boring when we can choose the level of challenge we want right from level 1? Leveling through the prior settings of normal and nightmare after experiencing the harder Hell and inferno was the epitome of boring to me so I never ended up leveling a second character and stuck with my level 60 monk. Now I'm finding it a lot more fun to play new characters at a higher difficulty right from the beginning that was impossible to do previously.

     

    Even if you like it easy, you can have that too in the same way it was before. Go through Normal, Hard, Expert, and Master with each new character and it'll be nearly identical to Normal, Nightmare, Hell, and Inferno. I don't get how anyone can complain about being given that choice to do it the old way or the new way.

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