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Starvault posts continued loses for 2013 (Full year and Q4)

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID_News=68449&Language=2

 

Looks like loses were the same for full year 2013 vs 2012.  Also looks like loses increased for Q4 2013 vs Q4 2012.

 

Some people like to come here and talk about how much better the game is doing and how population is booming.  Well, if thats the case it's non-paying people or alts.

 

 

Edit to add full introductory paragraph from MMOFALLOUT article (their chart really paints a clear picture of the staggering trend of losses).

 

Star Vault has posted their fourth quarter results for 2013, and the results are not looking so great. Net sales during the fourth quarter amounted to over eighty five thousand, a very small loss from the previous quarter. Net profit, on the other hand, dropped further into the red to one hundred fifty three thousand.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

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Comments

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    yet the game still continues

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    yet the game still continues

    I guess Henrik will always have doors open for him in any accounting department if game development doesn't work out. Voodoo is the only explanation of them still running. That, or that they don't include donations in profits. 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Toferio
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    yet the game still continues

    I guess Henrik will always have doors open for him in any accounting department if game development doesn't work out. Voodoo is the only explanation of them still running. That, or that they don't include donations in profits. 

    Not 100% sure, but my recollection is that they HAD to include the donations as revenue.

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    yet the game still continues

    I trolled this game hard since the Release- I had more accounts banned here over trolling this game than I have ever had anywhere else combined...

    I still think SV is a shit company- But I can honestly say this game did far better than I ever thought it would.

     

    You are right Death- Its still here. years later- I dont know how, but they have done it and made it work.

    I also said that SV twas the shadiest company I have ever seen- It was...But man, times have changed. Had this game been released (or more likely placed on KS) today, the things that happened here (in the History of SV) would not have made me even bat an eye.

    Well played SV...Well played...

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,468Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    yet the game still continues

    I dont think that is a reflection on the quality of the game or even a positive measurement really.  My understanding is the Nyson (is that right) family has plenty of cash and their losses in this game dont even make a dent.  Lets face it, you come from a rich family and your son either runs around in his underwear and parties or you let him run a little game company that keeps him happy and looks legit as long as he doesnt lose too much money.

     

    When you compare this to a normal company, who in the world would invest in it and what bank in its right mind would loan money to a company with the StarVault track record?  When you think about all the cuts this company has made, reduced staff, smaller office and such and then see them continuing to lose the same amount of money the only honest answer is that its a tax shelter for the Nyson family.  Look at how much money this company has lost over the years since launch?  If this was a real company that was backed by company assets and actually had real shareholders with some control, this company would have died by now.  The fact that is is a family company run on family money and controlled by the Nyson family is the only reason it still exists. 

     

    As long as the family wants this company to run in order to give Henrik something to do, it will run.  Even if it only has 5 subbers it will remain open.  It does not have to follow the rules of a normal for-profit company. 

     

    Note - I dont remember Henriks last name so if I fudged that up, my apologies

     

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    Note - I dont remember Henriks last name so if I fudged that up, my apologies

    Henrik Nyström

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    The game has actually received several large outside donations and investments to support development of the game over the past year. They may still not be making money at this point, but they do have money in the bank and the game is getting better over time. They are working hard to be fully ready for the Steam release.

    Only time will tell if it works out and the game ultimately succeeds in the long term.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,468Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anubisan

     

    Only time will tell if it works out and the game ultimately succeeds in the long term.

     

    From a business perspective, this company has lost over 1.3 million dollars since launch.  Unless the steam release is a miracle, I would not call the game or SV a success.  There are others that feel as long as the game is running it is a success.  In the end, I guess it all boils down to your definition.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    As long as the community is able to play a game we enjoy, it is a success in my book. Whether it becomes a financial success in the long run is the only question. There are many games that are financially successful, but are absolutely terrible in my opinion. It means essentially nothing to me...

    Unfortunately I think there are very few hardcore PVP sandbox games (if any) other than EVE that are actually making money.

  • YoungCaesarYoungCaesar San Diego, CAPosts: 297Member Uncommon

    From Henrik himself (he posts on the mortal forums regularly)

     

    "To sum this up, to avoid it lean towards confusion:

     

    Yes we are happy to see revenues/subs have gone up the past year including past months and its really moving in the right direction. Transaction IDs is not related to amount of subs or sales, to clear that from confusion. Donation is not revenues either.

     

    We have two investments made from investors in which money is scheduled for new development, improvement and polish, steam preperations, hiring of new coders, and on external outsourcing to expand Mortal in a faster rate.

     

    This means we are as planned increasing our operation costs to expand on Mortal. Not including this expanse we are actually going just above break even currently. This means even while revenue goes up profit may not go up while we increase the scheduled expanses from the investments.

     

    Its an exciting time for the entire Star Vault team, the share owners and our upcoming release phases to come next."

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon

    I could of course link quite a few of Henricks past statements, going back months... no even YEARS when he has made similar claims.  Always just about to break even...  Yet somehow the actual numbers never materialize.  No, instead of doing that I will simply link the chart from MMOFALLOUT which I think removes all argument about the direction they are heading:

     

    image

    Redbar = losses

    Bluebar = sales

     

     

    Now COULD they have some kind of miracle release of a 3-4 year old game on Steam that somehow turns things around?  Sure, anything is possible. I still buy lottery tickets after all...  but it's highly unlikely IMHO.  This isn't a new game.  It's a game that launched in 2010.  

     

     

    EDIT to add: Also I found this an interesting statement in the report: 

    1. <blockquote basehtml"="" ugc="">"During februari 2014, Star Vault launched a number of improvements by updating the Unreal Engine."
     
    Since we are talking about credibility... and this is a statement from Henrick IN THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REPORT... can any of the players advise if this really happened?  As far as I can tell there was no update (there isn't even an ETA), which of course would prove the statement to be 100% an untruth.   Note the tense, there is no wiggle room.  He said they launched it in February.  Interesting!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    1. <blockquote basehtml"="" ugc="">"During februari 2014, Star Vault launched a number of improvements by updating the Unreal Engine."
    Since we are talking about credibility... and this is a statement from Henrick IN THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REPORT... can any of the players advise if this really happened?  As far as I can tell there was no update (there isn't even an ETA), which of course would prove the statement to be 100% an untruth.   Note the tense, there is no wiggle room.  He said they launched it in February.  Interesting!

    Well they have launched it on their test servers. Nowhere does it say that it is launched on the live server.

    So I guess if some1 tries to say that SV lied about the launch, SV will just state the fact that they DID launch UE on the MO test server and nowhere does it say it was a commercial launch.

    Edit. This is what Henrik said on the MO forums about it: "*Edit, indeed the wording on the later release is not clear when it comes to the engine update is released or finished for the next phase which we describe in the information update release regarding the engine update. Its indeed done and its going through polish and testing phases which leads to release of it when approved. I will make sure the later announcement gets a proper correction in the wording to make that clear and to avoid confusion, thanks".

  • YoungCaesarYoungCaesar San Diego, CAPosts: 297Member Uncommon

    Well, the game is way more polished now than it was at release, so a steam release COULD turn things around and bring way more players that immediatly uninstall if they saw the game 3-4 years ago...

     

     

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    1. <blockquote basehtml"="" ugc="">"During februari 2014, Star Vault launched a number of improvements by updating the Unreal Engine."
    Since we are talking about credibility... and this is a statement from Henrick IN THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REPORT... can any of the players advise if this really happened?  As far as I can tell there was no update (there isn't even an ETA), which of course would prove the statement to be 100% an untruth.   Note the tense, there is no wiggle room.  He said they launched it in February.  Interesting!

    Well they have launched it on their test servers. Nowhere does it say that it is launched on the live server.

    So I guess if some1 tries to say that SV lied about the launch, SV will just state the fact that they DID launch UE on the MO test server and nowhere does it say it was a commercial launch.

    Edit. This is what Henrik said on the MO forums about it: "*Edit, indeed the wording on the later release is not clear when it comes to the engine update is released or finished for the next phase which we describe in the information update release regarding the engine update. Its indeed done and its going through polish and testing phases which leads to release of it when approved. I will make sure the later announcement gets a proper correction in the wording to make that clear and to avoid confusion, thanks".

    What kind of bizarre logic is that?  It clearly says "LAUNCHED IN FEBRUARY".  Nobody could possibly expect that to mean launched to a programmers internal server.  That's going way overboard to try and find a way to defend the company.  When a company like EA says they LAUNCHED GAME XYZ in their financial report that means they launched the game, publicly.  Nobody could rationally see it any other way.  Looks like the players caught him and called him on it and now he tries to backpedal.

     

    Whatever.  The financial chart speaks for itself.

     

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon
    Deep down inside I still want this game to "make" it.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    1. <blockquote basehtml"="" ugc="">"During februari 2014, Star Vault launched a number of improvements by updating the Unreal Engine."
    Since we are talking about credibility... and this is a statement from Henrick IN THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REPORT... can any of the players advise if this really happened?  As far as I can tell there was no update (there isn't even an ETA), which of course would prove the statement to be 100% an untruth.   Note the tense, there is no wiggle room.  He said they launched it in February.  Interesting!

    Well they have launched it on their test servers. Nowhere does it say that it is launched on the live server.

    So I guess if some1 tries to say that SV lied about the launch, SV will just state the fact that they DID launch UE on the MO test server and nowhere does it say it was a commercial launch.

    Edit. This is what Henrik said on the MO forums about it: "*Edit, indeed the wording on the later release is not clear when it comes to the engine update is released or finished for the next phase which we describe in the information update release regarding the engine update. Its indeed done and its going through polish and testing phases which leads to release of it when approved. I will make sure the later announcement gets a proper correction in the wording to make that clear and to avoid confusion, thanks".

    What kind of bizarre logic is that?  It clearly says "LAUNCHED IN FEBRUARY".  Nobody could possibly expect that to mean launched to a programmers internal server.  That's going way overboard to try and find a way to defend the company.  When a company like EA says they LAUNCHED GAME XYZ in their financial report that means they launched the game, publicly.  Nobody could rationally see it any other way.  Looks like the players caught him and called him on it and now he tries to backpedal.

     

    Whatever.  The financial chart speaks for itself.

     

     

     

    The test server isn't only for the programmers. There are players testing it on the test server. Hence "test server", and many other companies have that to. It hasn't gone LIVE so I rly don't see a big deal with this compared to you that think the world fell apart due to this.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by argirop
    Originally posted by Lahuzer

    The test server isn't only for the programmers. There are players testing it on the test server. Hence "test server", and many other companies have that to. It hasn't gone LIVE so I rly don't see a big deal with this compared to you that think the world fell apart due to this.

     

    The world doesnt fall appart each time a liar spreads some of his lies just to achieve his purposes or to take advantage of others. But still that doesnt make it right.

    This-

     

    Again the lies of SV are defended... I cannot understand it either- Even if I love a game or a company I will not defend blatant lies. This has been the pattern, however and nothing will change.

     

    Something being 'released' or 'released on a test server which only a few have access to' are two very different things. 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by argirop
    Originally posted by Lahuzer

    The test server isn't only for the programmers. There are players testing it on the test server. Hence "test server", and many other companies have that to. It hasn't gone LIVE so I rly don't see a big deal with this compared to you that think the world fell apart due to this.

     

    The world doesnt fall appart each time a liar spreads some of his lies just to achieve his purposes or to take advantage of others. But still that doesnt make it right.

    This-

     

    Again the lies of SV are defended... I cannot understand it either- Even if I love a game or a company I will not defend blatant lies. This has been the pattern, however and nothing will change.

     

    Something being 'released' or 'released on a test server which only a few have access to' are two very different things. 

    Is it even "released to the test server"?

     

    And besides.. the word used was LAUNCHED.  99.995% of folks understand what happened. Even most of those defending know it deep down, but some folks will swear to whatever Henrick says.

     

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by argirop
    Originally posted by Lahuzer

    The test server isn't only for the programmers. There are players testing it on the test server. Hence "test server", and many other companies have that to. It hasn't gone LIVE so I rly don't see a big deal with this compared to you that think the world fell apart due to this.

     

    The world doesnt fall appart each time a liar spreads some of his lies just to achieve his purposes or to take advantage of others. But still that doesnt make it right.

    This-

     

    Again the lies of SV are defended... I cannot understand it either- Even if I love a game or a company I will not defend blatant lies. This has been the pattern, however and nothing will change.

     

    Something being 'released' or 'released on a test server which only a few have access to' are two very different things. 

    Is it even "released to the test server"?

     

    And besides.. the word used was LAUNCHED.  99.995% of folks understand what happened. Even most of those defending know it deep down, but some folks will swear to whatever Henrick says.

     

     

     

    IDK- Ia am assuming it is based on the other posters comments.

     

    Myself, I have no idea.

    I also totally understand what happened- Henrik was caught in a lie and tried to explain it away and the fanbots swallowed it hook, line and sinker- Nothing really new here. As far as I am aware (I could be mistaken) nothing really new has come to MO in quite some time.

     

    EDIT- Fact is, I have all but given up even looking into this game anymore unless I happen to see a post here on mmorpg.com- It used to be that there was funny things happening on a near daily basis but sadly, not so much anymore. I used to enjoy my morning coffee reading about the latest MO/SV antics and laughing out loud - Often eliciting strange looks from coworkers.

     

    I miss those days =(

    We really need a Volcano or something to bring back that Golden Era.

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Well he ain't lying. It has been launched for testing. It hasn't gone live yet. To me there is a difference and quite easy to spot. Sure the wording ain't the best, and he acknowledge this. But try bringing this issue to a court and see if it holds...
  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Well he ain't lying. It has been launched for testing. It hasn't gone live yet. To me there is a difference and quite easy to spot. Sure the wording ain't the best, and he acknowledge this. But try bringing this issue to a court and see if it holds...

    This. I know for a fact that it is being tested right now. Granted, the language that was used is a bit misleading, but honestly it's not the huge deal people are making of it. The statement was directed towards investors, not the community playing the game.

    Unfortunately it could take a little while for this patch to go out because they are also touching up the entire Myrland map at the same time. This will be a big update when it's finished and will make it easier for them to add new lands outside the main continent.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by argirop
     "Nystrom tells the truth and the fact that lied a gazilion times in the past is irrelevant and doesnt count nor the fact that playerbase cought him lying again with his pants down".

    Yes but don't you see?  He didn't really MEAN what he said! He meant to say something else. but somehow it came out wrong on the report!  Therefore we should trust him that he meant to say something else, and thus it's not a lie!  And the fact that the company, the CEO and some of the fans have a documented HISTORY of saying things that ummm... don't turn out to happen, should not factor into this conversation!

     

    One of the only parts of the report that is proven factual is the chart I linked above.

     

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    Yes but don't you see?  He didn't really MEAN what he said! He meant to say something else. but somehow it came out wrong on the report!  Therefore we should trust him that he meant to say something else, and thus it's not a lie!  And the fact that the company, the CEO and some of the fans have a documented HISTORY of saying things that ummm... don't turn out to happen, should not factor into this conversation!

     

    One of the only parts of the report that is proven factual is the chart I linked above.

     

     

     

    No. I try this once more. It HAS launched on test server, so he ain't lying. It's actually quite easy to understand. Dunno why you can't grasp this simple fact.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,491Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by argirop
     "Nystrom tells the truth and the fact that lied a gazilion times in the past is irrelevant and doesnt count nor the fact that playerbase cought him lying again with his pants down".

    Yes but don't you see?  He didn't really MEAN what he said! He meant to say something else. but somehow it came out wrong on the report!  Therefore we should trust him that he meant to say something else, and thus it's not a lie!  And the fact that the company, the CEO and some of the fans have a documented HISTORY of saying things that ummm... don't turn out to happen, should not factor into this conversation!

     

    One of the only parts of the report that is proven factual is the chart I linked above.

     

     

     

    No. I try this once more. It HAS launched on test server, so he ain't lying. It's actually quite easy to understand. Dunno why you can't grasp this simple fact.

    So we can say that games like Camelot Unchained and  Shroud of the Avatar have LAUNCHED because they are on a test server testing parts of the game?   Please, the depths this discussion has sunk to are laughable.

     

    We don't need to redefine what the definition of LAUNCHED is.  Everyone knows what it means and it doesn't mean on an internal "test server" with a  dozen people with an unknown ETA.

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorPosts: 666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    Yes but don't you see?  He didn't really MEAN what he said! He meant to say something else. but somehow it came out wrong on the report!  Therefore we should trust him that he meant to say something else, and thus it's not a lie!  And the fact that the company, the CEO and some of the fans have a documented HISTORY of saying things that ummm... don't turn out to happen, should not factor into this conversation!

     

    One of the only parts of the report that is proven factual is the chart I linked above.

     

     

     

    No. I try this once more. It HAS launched on test server, so he ain't lying. It's actually quite easy to understand. Dunno why you can't grasp this simple fact.

    So we can say that games like Camelot Unchained and  Shroud of the Avatar have LAUNCHED because they are on a test server testing parts of the game?   Please, the depths this discussion has sunk to are laughable.

     

    We don't need to redefine what the definition of LAUNCHED is.  Everyone knows what it means and it doesn't mean on an internal "test server" with a  dozen people with an unknown ETA.

     

    This wasn't a game. This was a UPGRADE to the ENGINE. BIG difference. The game is alive and kicking.

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