PVP and skill are more popular than PVE and Progression but less accessible. So it uses PVE and Progression to make PVP accessible. That's what PVE and progression is for. $$$$ If the rewards were taken away, some would remember.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Originally posted by FinalFikus PVP and skill are more popular than PVE and Progression but less accessible. So it uses PVE and Progression to make PVP accessible. That's what PVE and progression is for. $$$$ If the rewards were taken away, some would remember.
Originally posted by FinalFikus PVP and skill are more popular than PVE and Progression but less accessible. So it uses PVE and Progression to make PVP accessible. That's what PVE and progression is for. $$$$ If the rewards were taken away, some would remember.
PVE COULD take skill.....if games didn't suck now
That is true, and crafting and exploring and trading and selling ect.....
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
People that are hardcore pvp players will love MOBA's more because it is real fast arena strategic game, they can and will a lot of the time's last 15 to 20 min. But you get access to them almost instantly. After you end 1 game you just jump to another.
MMORPG's are more for people that love pvp but also like or love pve. When they get tired a bit of the story or the rp ( only found in mmorpg's not in moba's ) they will get into battlegrounds and even arena's and yes you use way more skills or spells. But there is a queue time to access them. To say more complicated, well that will depend on how deep the pvp is.
MOBA's have different kind of characters in them they all have 1 thing in common you stand behind a few minions that do most of the work for you and you go back and forth a few steps behind them to not get it by opponents and using skills or spells for killing your opponent's and there minions to get cash to spend on items to increase your spells power or melee skills, you also destroy towers along the way to the other side of the map, in a 3 way lane etc.. Until you reach there base and destroy it.
Nothing hard at that in theory but when playing against hardcore players that know every up and down of every or most of the characters and that they also have a personal level maxed then it can be a pain because they have advantage that you don't, like extra gold etc.. at start of every game, that get's them the gear faster and also makes them more powerful then you faster.
Every game you level from 1 to max or until games is over. But you do gain a personal level that unlocks hero's or gods ( that's there character's name in those games). It is very strategic but totally different from a mmorpg.
MOBA's are new and reasonably fun until you actually begin to play them competitively. Once you hit that point though you are dealing with the same "niche" that MMORPG's are dealing with, and even worse, those same factions are being built up that are ultimately going to split off, cut away, and cause that entire genre to level out, if not disperse, in the same fashion that this one is.
PVP vs PVAI
Superhero VS LOL VS Fantasy VS whatever
Overhead VS Third Person
Competition VS Casual
Idiot VS Reasonable person.
Griefers VS everyone.
It's all happening as we speak. All you are witnessing is the birth of a new product. It is no different than when WOW hit the national scene after the news networks billed EQ as a game so addictive that it had people losing their jobs.
LOL has professional tournaments, Youtube videos with people commentating them as they they were real sports casters, and all kinds of other stuff to pull you in, not to mention they are pretty fun.
That dark side though will be their undoing, and certainly no one who is already tired of that faction within the MMORPG realm is going to hang around but for so long with it as out of control as it is over there.
So enjoy it while it lasts. Next year their will be 15 more, and the year after that 30 more, and then we can all go to their forums and listen to their old schoolers talk about how the kids today.......and that's why MOBA's are failing. LOL
Oh! and let me edit. And when this happens LOL will still be king because, like WOW, it runs on freaking EVERYTHING!!
Comparing total numbers between MOBA and MMO are a little misleading since MOBAs like LoL reach more people worldwide than any single MMO will, even WoW. MOBAs are very light in both processing requirements and bandwidth so they have a larger potential playerbase. A better metric would be choosing areas where both are equally supported and averaging those totals.
Because there's nothing for their class to do but be stunned to death; or be locked in a boring 2 power system designed to curb burst in a burst healing sub-class. -_-
MMORPG's are more for people that love pvp but also like or love pve. When they get tired a bit of the story or the rp ( only found in mmorpg's not in moba's ) they will get into battlegrounds and even arena's and yes you use way more skills or spells. But there is a queue time to access them. To say more complicated, well that will depend on how deep the pvp is.
Hybrid is always a problem. I like PvE more ... and ARPG are much better pve games than MMOs with both pve and pvp because it does not have to design for pvp.
MMORPGs (with instanced dungeons and arenas) are basically a combination of ARPG and MOBA ... separate them make the games better.
Now some MMORPGs are still decent games (like Marvel Heroes and STO) because of the combat, or IP, but in general, i would much rather play a "focused" game.
It's no surprise, the quick and easy fun with a minimal time investment is always going to appeal to a wider audience than the MMO's where you have to invest countless days/weeks/months of real time into your character.
Comparing MOBA's to MMO's is like comparing shooters and sports games to RPGs; they're completely different game genres which appeal to different audiences (some bigger than others).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
It's no surprise, the quick and easy fun with a minimal time investment is always going to appeal to a wider audience than the MMO's where you have to invest countless days/weeks/months of real time into your character.
Comparing MOBA's to MMO's is like comparing shooters and sports games to RPGs; they're completely different game genres which appeal to different audiences (some bigger than others).
Except MMO arenas and BGs are like MOBAs, and MOBAs are pulling that part of the audience away from MMOs.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by FoomerangMOBAs are probably doing better than most other genres as well. Guess they are all going away lol. What a dumb article.
Really?
Most MOBAs are not doing better than the most popular FPS and TPS, or even D3.
In fact, MMOs are be more like ARPGs, and other genres, precisely because they are more successful.
Grats on naming like 3 genres. And mobas are an evolution of RTS btw. There are some things borrowed between genres, that has always been the case. Does not mean that a genre is in trouble haha. Thats just some guy trying to get hits and you fell for it.
Originally posted by FoomerangMOBAs are probably doing better than most other genres as well. Guess they are all going away lol. What a dumb article.
Really?
Most MOBAs are not doing better than the most popular FPS and TPS, or even D3.
In fact, MMOs are be more like ARPGs, and other genres, precisely because they are more successful.
Grats on naming like 3 genres. And mobas are an evolution of RTS btw. There are some things borrowed between genres, that has always been the case. Does not mean that a genre is in trouble haha. Thats just some guy trying to get hits and you fell for it.
So you agree that MMOs are taking ideas from other genres because of their success? Will MMOs be more like MOBA in the future since MOBA is so successful?
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by FoomerangMOBAs are probably doing better than most other genres as well. Guess they are all going away lol. What a dumb article.
Really?Most MOBAs are not doing better than the most popular FPS and TPS, or even D3.In fact, MMOs are be more like ARPGs, and other genres, precisely because they are more successful.Grats on naming like 3 genres. And mobas are an evolution of RTS btw. There are some things borrowed between genres, that has always been the case. Does not mean that a genre is in trouble haha. Thats just some guy trying to get hits and you fell for it. So you agree that MMOs are taking ideas from other genres because of their success? Will MMOs be more like MOBA in the future since MOBA is so successful? when a genre enjoys popularity, other genres borrow from it. any genre. is this new to you?
Originally posted by Kyleran Cheap, quick and casual, not surprising the masses flock to it, sort of like cheap beer, fast food and pop music.
Step aside folks, there is big money to be made here.
Don't worry, we'll still be here when all the tourists have moved on.
No, we won't leave the light on.
I love your posts normally Kyle, this one included.
However, I think you lost me on the last part.
Fast food goers don't move on, McDonalds is very profitable.
Budweiser is making buckets of cash.
Last time I checked pop music is doing great.
So I don't think that the people who consume these things are 'tourists' and I don't think they'll 'move on'.
I am well aware that these popular things make money, bunches of it, but in order to do so compromises have to be made in order to appeal to a broader audience. Therefore they avoid some of the other qualities their genre may provide to those with those of more eclectic taste.
IMO, the tourist is the causal MMO player, he probably plays lots of other games as well, the purist plays pretty much only MMOs, and perhaps even MMORPG's and usually, no more than one at a time.
Game design is completely different for these two audiences, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner other genres such as Moba's draw them away from MMORPG's the sooner they'll return ot design more favorable to their original, core audience.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't worry, we'll still be here when all the tourists have moved on.
No, we won't leave the light on.
I've read that before, about other past "tourist" attractions - good you said you won't leave the lights on, because there may be not enough left of you to pay for the lights to actually be left on...
I'm no fan of all those game, and this is obviously another "naru" thread like so many before, but be careful about what you wish for...
Yes, you are correct, this is another Nari bait thread, but once in a while I like to post in them.
I am in fact willing to see the MMO genre crash and burn, and a general housecleaning take place, and if new genre's arise and draw the masses away from them, I believe there will actually be enough of us to support 5 or 6 good MMORPG's for a long time to come.
And if it doesn't work out the way I think, no worries, I will probably always have EVE.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
It's no surprise, the quick and easy fun with a minimal time investment is always going to appeal to a wider audience than the MMO's where you have to invest countless days/weeks/months of real time into your character.
Comparing MOBA's to MMO's is like comparing shooters and sports games to RPGs; they're completely different game genres which appeal to different audiences (some bigger than others).
Except MMO arenas and BGs are like MOBAs, and MOBAs are pulling that part of the audience away from MMOs.
I am so hoping you are correct, I want MOBAs to draw folks who enjoy arena and BG combat out of the MMORPG genre, so it can discard these features and return to more open world combat styles that I prefer.
As I said above, I only need a couple of decent titles out there, remember, I only play one at a time, and usually for multiple years, so doesn't matter to me if the selection is quite small.
You and your friends can go off and enjoy the ARPG's and MOBAs and we'll all be a bit happier.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran IMO, the tourist is the causal MMO player, he probably plays lots of other games as well, the purist plays pretty much only MMOs, and perhaps even MMORPG's and usually, no more than one at a time. Game design is completely different for these two audiences, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner other genres such as Moba's draw them away from MMORPG's the sooner they'll return ot design more favorable to their original, core audience.
The purist doesn't play mmos, but waits endlessley for the perfect one to come by. The casual finds ways to enjoy an mmo that a purist will never know. The purist demands community and is generally an asshole about it. The casual just plays. The purist does not tolerate. The casual adapts.
Candy Crush has more than both combined. Does that mean anything? Well yes, I guess it means, cows know how to play phone focused games now. I personally thought flappy bird was a game about bird masturbation... anyway.
I don't see where that makes either genre better or worse. Since when did popularity dictate quality? Candy Crush is more popular and is more profitable too.
So you agree that MMOs are taking ideas from other genres because of their success? Will MMOs be more like MOBA in the future since MOBA is so successful?
when a genre enjoys popularity, other genres borrow from it. any genre. is this new to you?
No ... but a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that MMOs need to go back to old, tried, and unpopular ideas instead of trying something new and learn from other genres ... hence i think it is worth while to point this out.
Originally posted by Kyleran IMO, the tourist is the causal MMO player, he probably plays lots of other games as well, the purist plays pretty much only MMOs, and perhaps even MMORPG's and usually, no more than one at a time.
Game design is completely different for these two audiences, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner other genres such as Moba's draw them away from MMORPG's the sooner they'll return ot design more favorable to their original, core audience.
The purist doesn't play mmos, but waits endlessley for the perfect one to come by. The casual finds ways to enjoy an mmo that a purist will never know. The purist demands community and is generally an asshole about it. The casual just plays. The purist does not tolerate. The casual adapts.
Lets say what you say is true. The reason for all of the above is because the casual doesn't really care about the game at all. They just want something to jump in and out of quickly for a short entertainment fix. They will quickly consume all the content and move on to the next game (because that's how these games are designed). They don't even care they are being ripped off with cash shops. This is probably one of their many different hobbies (none of which they are really dedicated to at all considering how little time they make for them and small an amount of patience they have for doing things in a game).
Comments
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
PVE COULD take skill.....if games didn't suck now
That is true, and crafting and exploring and trading and selling ect.....
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
People that are hardcore pvp players will love MOBA's more because it is real fast arena strategic game, they can and will a lot of the time's last 15 to 20 min. But you get access to them almost instantly. After you end 1 game you just jump to another.
MMORPG's are more for people that love pvp but also like or love pve. When they get tired a bit of the story or the rp ( only found in mmorpg's not in moba's ) they will get into battlegrounds and even arena's and yes you use way more skills or spells. But there is a queue time to access them. To say more complicated, well that will depend on how deep the pvp is.
MOBA's have different kind of characters in them they all have 1 thing in common you stand behind a few minions that do most of the work for you and you go back and forth a few steps behind them to not get it by opponents and using skills or spells for killing your opponent's and there minions to get cash to spend on items to increase your spells power or melee skills, you also destroy towers along the way to the other side of the map, in a 3 way lane etc.. Until you reach there base and destroy it.
Nothing hard at that in theory but when playing against hardcore players that know every up and down of every or most of the characters and that they also have a personal level maxed then it can be a pain because they have advantage that you don't, like extra gold etc.. at start of every game, that get's them the gear faster and also makes them more powerful then you faster.
Every game you level from 1 to max or until games is over. But you do gain a personal level that unlocks hero's or gods ( that's there character's name in those games). It is very strategic but totally different from a mmorpg.
MOBA's are new and reasonably fun until you actually begin to play them competitively. Once you hit that point though you are dealing with the same "niche" that MMORPG's are dealing with, and even worse, those same factions are being built up that are ultimately going to split off, cut away, and cause that entire genre to level out, if not disperse, in the same fashion that this one is.
PVP vs PVAI
Superhero VS LOL VS Fantasy VS whatever
Overhead VS Third Person
Competition VS Casual
Idiot VS Reasonable person.
Griefers VS everyone.
It's all happening as we speak. All you are witnessing is the birth of a new product. It is no different than when WOW hit the national scene after the news networks billed EQ as a game so addictive that it had people losing their jobs.
LOL has professional tournaments, Youtube videos with people commentating them as they they were real sports casters, and all kinds of other stuff to pull you in, not to mention they are pretty fun.
That dark side though will be their undoing, and certainly no one who is already tired of that faction within the MMORPG realm is going to hang around but for so long with it as out of control as it is over there.
So enjoy it while it lasts. Next year their will be 15 more, and the year after that 30 more, and then we can all go to their forums and listen to their old schoolers talk about how the kids today.......and that's why MOBA's are failing. LOL
Oh! and let me edit. And when this happens LOL will still be king because, like WOW, it runs on freaking EVERYTHING!!
That's because the MMO community spends at least 600 million hours per quarter bemoaning the state of modern MMOs.
No, they're in LoL...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sacredheals/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=3
:sniff:
Because there's nothing for their class to do but be stunned to death; or be locked in a boring 2 power system designed to curb burst in a burst healing sub-class. -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Hybrid is always a problem. I like PvE more ... and ARPG are much better pve games than MMOs with both pve and pvp because it does not have to design for pvp.
MMORPGs (with instanced dungeons and arenas) are basically a combination of ARPG and MOBA ... separate them make the games better.
Now some MMORPGs are still decent games (like Marvel Heroes and STO) because of the combat, or IP, but in general, i would much rather play a "focused" game.
I love your posts normally Kyle, this one included.
However, I think you lost me on the last part.
Fast food goers don't move on, McDonalds is very profitable.
Budweiser is making buckets of cash.
Last time I checked pop music is doing great.
So I don't think that the people who consume these things are 'tourists' and I don't think they'll 'move on'.
MOBAs are probably doing better than most other genres as well. Guess they are all going away lol. What a dumb article.
It's no surprise, the quick and easy fun with a minimal time investment is always going to appeal to a wider audience than the MMO's where you have to invest countless days/weeks/months of real time into your character.
Comparing MOBA's to MMO's is like comparing shooters and sports games to RPGs; they're completely different game genres which appeal to different audiences (some bigger than others).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Really?
Most MOBAs are not doing better than the most popular FPS and TPS, or even D3.
In fact, MMOs are be more like ARPGs, and other genres, precisely because they are more successful.
Except MMO arenas and BGs are like MOBAs, and MOBAs are pulling that part of the audience away from MMOs.
Most MOBAs are not doing better than the most popular FPS and TPS, or even D3.
In fact, MMOs are be more like ARPGs, and other genres, precisely because they are more successful.
Grats on naming like 3 genres. And mobas are an evolution of RTS btw. There are some things borrowed between genres, that has always been the case. Does not mean that a genre is in trouble haha. Thats just some guy trying to get hits and you fell for it.
So you agree that MMOs are taking ideas from other genres because of their success? Will MMOs be more like MOBA in the future since MOBA is so successful?
Grats on naming like 3 genres. And mobas are an evolution of RTS btw. There are some things borrowed between genres, that has always been the case. Does not mean that a genre is in trouble haha. Thats just some guy trying to get hits and you fell for it.
So you agree that MMOs are taking ideas from other genres because of their success? Will MMOs be more like MOBA in the future since MOBA is so successful?
when a genre enjoys popularity, other genres borrow from it. any genre. is this new to you?
Candy Crush is more popular and profitable than MOBAs, which are more popular than MMOs.
The MMORPG market needs to copy Candy Crush in order to survive the rapidly collapsing market !!!
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
I am well aware that these popular things make money, bunches of it, but in order to do so compromises have to be made in order to appeal to a broader audience. Therefore they avoid some of the other qualities their genre may provide to those with those of more eclectic taste.
IMO, the tourist is the causal MMO player, he probably plays lots of other games as well, the purist plays pretty much only MMOs, and perhaps even MMORPG's and usually, no more than one at a time.
Game design is completely different for these two audiences, and as far as I'm concerned, the sooner other genres such as Moba's draw them away from MMORPG's the sooner they'll return ot design more favorable to their original, core audience.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes, you are correct, this is another Nari bait thread, but once in a while I like to post in them.
I am in fact willing to see the MMO genre crash and burn, and a general housecleaning take place, and if new genre's arise and draw the masses away from them, I believe there will actually be enough of us to support 5 or 6 good MMORPG's for a long time to come.
And if it doesn't work out the way I think, no worries, I will probably always have EVE.
I am so hoping you are correct, I want MOBAs to draw folks who enjoy arena and BG combat out of the MMORPG genre, so it can discard these features and return to more open world combat styles that I prefer.
As I said above, I only need a couple of decent titles out there, remember, I only play one at a time, and usually for multiple years, so doesn't matter to me if the selection is quite small.
You and your friends can go off and enjoy the ARPG's and MOBAs and we'll all be a bit happier.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The purist doesn't play mmos, but waits endlessley for the perfect one to come by.
The casual finds ways to enjoy an mmo that a purist will never know.
The purist demands community and is generally an asshole about it.
The casual just plays.
The purist does not tolerate.
The casual adapts.
Candy Crush has more than both combined. Does that mean anything? Well yes, I guess it means, cows know how to play phone focused games now. I personally thought flappy bird was a game about bird masturbation... anyway.
I don't see where that makes either genre better or worse. Since when did popularity dictate quality? Candy Crush is more popular and is more profitable too.
"What tastes like purple?"
No ... but a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that MMOs need to go back to old, tried, and unpopular ideas instead of trying something new and learn from other genres ... hence i think it is worth while to point this out.
Lets say what you say is true. The reason for all of the above is because the casual doesn't really care about the game at all. They just want something to jump in and out of quickly for a short entertainment fix. They will quickly consume all the content and move on to the next game (because that's how these games are designed). They don't even care they are being ripped off with cash shops. This is probably one of their many different hobbies (none of which they are really dedicated to at all considering how little time they make for them and small an amount of patience they have for doing things in a game).