Originally posted by atuerstar I guess I just visualised it as being a form of social content for endgame. Trade caravans could always travel through low level zones, having a trade circuit they run.
It just seems the automatically socially exclusive functionality of an AH removes players from the world, stops them from becoming a part of the world. I always thought MMO's were supposed to be about becoming a part of that world, not sitting in some endgame city waiting for que's to pop.
I think if people gave such a socially dependant system a chance they may find their in game community becomes much more interesting and enjoyable. They wont even try if the AH is put in.
Rose tinted glasses. Were people 200 years ago more social than we are today in era of eshops?
Without a single doubt.
As soon as you have to deal face-to-face with a shop owner, the whole dynamics of the experience changes.
Of course, it is inefficient, but it is undoubtedly more "social".
In the context of a village (i.e. 200 years ago), you were part of a community. You'd greet the shopkeeper by name and chat about local affairs, the weather, who in the village is cheating on their spouse, etc. In between all that, the buying and selling would take place. It would take 10 times as long as a visit to your local supermarket takes nowadays, and you'd pay 10 times more for the goods, because that village shop doesn't have the economy of scale of a modern Walmart.
In ESO, we play in a medieval setting, but players don't want to deal with the inefficiencies of medieval economies. ESO is not a virtual world, it's a themepark game. So players expect to have modern conveniences like universal mail delivery and Walmart/Amazon/Ebay.
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx Why does it sound like if i dont join a guild i wont be able to efficiently sell my wares if i decide to craft?
can you explain your stupidy? not all MMO has AH... and ESO does not need one. even wildstar doesnt and wont get one
Can you explain yours? Keeps, with markets that players can browse will be the most efficient way to sell things. Individual players, who must shout each single item to a limited number of people is the least efficient way to sell things. A Keep will allow guilds to sell stuff while the player who crafted it is online or offline. Individual players are restricted to only the time they are online to sell their wares. Seems like a pretty clear cut case of guilds owning Keeps being the far more efficient method of selling things.
That is, if selling the crafted items matters. As someone pointed out, selling the materials is often more profitable. Except in ESO, BoP is the exception, not the rule and the same thing that will drive people to look at Keep Markets instead of individual sellers will drive people to buy finished products instead of the materials. People are lazy. Efficient. Whatever.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes, social interaction is a bad thing, we should eliminate it from our multiplayer games! Oh wait,... we already did.
/sarcasm off
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by SpottyGekko Without a single doubt. As soon as you have to deal face-to-face with a shop owner, the whole dynamics of the experience changes.Of course, it is inefficient, but it is undoubtedly more "social". In the context of a village (i.e. 200 years ago), you were part of a community. You'd greet the shopkeeper by name and chat about local affairs, the weather, who in the village is cheating on their spouse, etc. In between all that, the buying and selling would take place. It would take 10 times as long as a visit to your local supermarket takes nowadays, and you'd pay 10 times more for the goods, because that village shop doesn't have the economy of scale of a modern Walmart. In ESO, we play in a medieval setting, but players don't want to deal with the inefficiencies of medieval economies. ESO is not a virtual world, it's a themepark game. So players expect to have modern conveniences like universal mail delivery and Walmart/Amazon/Ebay.
We are no less social, only what has changed is communication methods. The communication these days is way more effective, instead of spending hours to meet and learn what other people do, you can do it within a few clicks.
Who is more social in that case? The one that spent more time with a single person or one that may communicate with more people in the same time frame?
That makes it good for buying from the guild (or the guild selling TO) so basically great for guilders. Not so much for soloers. SIgh. I think I like the system but it's going to be an interesting scenario. Not like forced grouping but 'heavily encouraged' guilding.
How so? it gives you, the solo player, access to any guild's store that is holding a keep. It lets you shop around and not be tied into one single guild. I think quite the opposite, that this opens the door for non-guilded people to participate in one of the biggest perks of being in a guild, access to that guild's store. Just visit the PVP area daily, teleport to each keep, and shop to your solo heart's content without belonging to the guild...
Originally posted by lizardbones
A couple questions:
What about cross-faction sales? Yea or Nay?
Do the keeps work such that there will be a large number of "vendors" in close geographic proximity to each other? Like walking around a bazaar to shop rather than traveling a day per vendor to compare prices and products?
No cross faction sales. Since the castle Quartermaster is located in the center of the keep, guild store is only accessible by that guild's faction...so it is not really a "public" viewing, but more of a factional one.
Each keep is about 2 minutes (by Imperial horse) from each other...although if your faction controls the keeps adjacent to it they can teleport to it if it is not under attack. If it is being attacked, you have to go by foot.
There is only one Quartermaster per keep, and a guild can only own one keep at any one time...so as long as your faction is dominating the map, it opens up quite a few possibilities. To shop around, again, as long as your faction controls the keeps immediately adjacent (on your side) you can teleport to them in seconds to shop...
This sounds more and more like a feature that promotes PvP. You can disrupt another faction's economy by taking Keeps, and promote your own economy by taking Keeps that are adjacent to Keeps held by guilds in your own faction. The only thing missing is completely dominating opposing faction economies by stealth selling stuff to them at higher prices.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by SpottyGekko Without a single doubt.
As soon as you have to deal face-to-face with a shop owner, the whole dynamics of the experience changes.
Of course, it is inefficient, but it is undoubtedly more "social".
In the context of a village (i.e. 200 years ago), you were part of a community. You'd greet the shopkeeper by name and chat about local affairs, the weather, who in the village is cheating on their spouse, etc. In between all that, the buying and selling would take place. It would take 10 times as long as a visit to your local supermarket takes nowadays, and you'd pay 10 times more for the goods, because that village shop doesn't have the economy of scale of a modern Walmart.
In ESO, we play in a medieval setting, but players don't want to deal with the inefficiencies of medieval economies. ESO is not a virtual world, it's a themepark game. So players expect to have modern conveniences like universal mail delivery and Walmart/Amazon/Ebay.
We are no less social, only what has changed is communication methods. The communication these days is way more effective, instead of spending hours to meet and learn what other people do, you can do it within a few clicks.
Who is more social in that case? The one that spent more time with a single person or one that may communicate with more people in the same time frame?
Rose tinted glasses...
No, you are confusing "social" with "well-informed".
Socialising entails spending time with people. Would you call someone "social" if that person lives on an island by themselves (by choice), but spends all day in internet chatrooms ?
Don't meet for coffee, rather exchange a few SMS's so you and your friend can quickly and efficiently catch-up on what you did this last week ?
Originally posted by SpottyGekko Would you call someone "social" if that person lives on an island by themselves (by choice), but spends all day in internet chatrooms ?
Of course I would.
Spending time with people - you just won't accept any other forms of spending time with people that are not the forms of past, same rose tinted glasses.
Would you call someone "social" if that person lives on an island by themselves (by choice), but spends all day in internet chatrooms ?
Of course I would.
Spending time with people - you just won't accept any other forms of spending time with people that are not the forms of past, same rose tinted glasses.
I don't agree with your proposition that socialising is merely a clinical exchange of information and needs no actual human contact. If that's "rose tinted glasses", then I prefer pink. If we stop having human contact, we'll cease to be human.
Originally posted by SpottyGekko I don't agree with your proposition that socialising is merely a clinical exchange of information and needs no actual human contact. If that's "rose tinted glasses", then I prefer pink. If we stop having human contact, we'll cease to be human.
We stop being humans once we stop adapting - we cease to exist.
Originally posted by Abndn God forbid you'd have to interact with other human beings to trade in an MMORPG.
So if i join 5 guilds with 500 people a piece simply to do this every 30 seconds
/g "WTS EPIC SWORD OF AWESOME 30k PST"
Oh well now i feel enlightened, im so glad that i was able to experience such interaction.
It's certainly a step on the way towards making MMORPG's multiplayer games again.
Explain.
Everyone keep saying that, ive seen this similar statement several times but nobody has explained how having an auction house, means the game is no longer a multiplayer MMORPG anymore.
Do you feel close to the McDonalds employee just because you are greeted by their smile and a name tag with just their first name?
How about walmart, think you know all the staff like family because someone is there to greet you when you arrive through the giant sliding doors?
Do you think Amazon is a plague on society because i can buy any thing i want, any time i want, anywhere i want and never have to interact with another living soul besides the UPS driver?
What youre saying is silly.
Your McDonalds employee analogy is what's silly.
The idea here is that modern MMORPG's are less social experiences and lack strong communities because so much of the gameplay is impersonal. You buy your stuff on the AH, you group cross-server with people you'll never see again, you level up alone because soloing is encouraged when grouping isn't more rewarding. The list goes on.
When you trade in person in an MMORPG you are not dealing with a faceless employee, you're dealing with another player on your server that you'll likely come across again if you keep playing. You talk to each other, you haggle, you come to an agreement or you don't. You're interacting with another person in a meaningful way and in the end that's what multiplayer games are all about.
amen bro
Ive gone to the same mcdonalds for the last 6 years, 3 or 4 times a week. I havent said a sentence beyond my order to the girl work works there and ive seen her more then ive seen some members of my family.
You have no idea what youre talking about. This system only penalizes solo players, and it does so to the extent that If youre not in a major guild that pvps you are fucked. Because you are regulated to only selling items while you are online.
Guilds controlling the economy is totally fair. I cant see how this could possibly go wrong.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
Hehe i was a Legendary Grandmaster Tailor in DAOC I totally understand your point. I couldn't go anywhere w/o people sending me a tell or talking to me when I was traveling acking how much for MC or just saying hello. Real pride back then for what I achieved.
Originally posted by Abndn God forbid you'd have to interact with other human beings to trade in an MMORPG.
So if i join 5 guilds with 500 people a piece simply to do this every 30 seconds
/g "WTS EPIC SWORD OF AWESOME 30k PST"
Oh well now i feel enlightened, im so glad that i was able to experience such interaction.
It's certainly a step on the way towards making MMORPG's multiplayer games again.
Explain.
Everyone keep saying that, ive seen this similar statement several times but nobody has explained how having an auction house, means the game is no longer a multiplayer MMORPG anymore.
Do you feel close to the McDonalds employee just because you are greeted by their smile and a name tag with just their first name?
How about walmart, think you know all the staff like family because someone is there to greet you when you arrive through the giant sliding doors?
Do you think Amazon is a plague on society because i can buy any thing i want, any time i want, anywhere i want and never have to interact with another living soul besides the UPS driver?
What youre saying is silly.
Your McDonalds employee analogy is what's silly.
The idea here is that modern MMORPG's are less social experiences and lack strong communities because so much of the gameplay is impersonal. You buy your stuff on the AH, you group cross-server with people you'll never see again, you level up alone because soloing is encouraged when grouping isn't more rewarding. The list goes on.
When you trade in person in an MMORPG you are not dealing with a faceless employee, you're dealing with another player on your server that you'll likely come across again if you keep playing. You talk to each other, you haggle, you come to an agreement or you don't. You're interacting with another person in a meaningful way and in the end that's what multiplayer games are all about.
amen bro
Ive gone to the same mcdonalds for the last 6 years, 3 or 4 times a week. I havent said a sentence beyond my order to the girl work works there and ive seen her more then ive seen some members of my family.
You have no idea what youre talking about. This system only penalizes solo players, and it does so to the extent that If youre not in a major guild that pvps you are fucked. Because you are regulated to only selling items while you are online.
Guilds controlling the economy is totally fair. I cant see how this could possibly go wrong.
I know pretty fucking well what I'm talking about. I've had countless socially meaningful interactions while trading in games like Everquest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Diablo 2 and more recently Darkfall and Path of Exile.
It doesn't matter how often you meet the McDonalds girl because it's an asymmetric relationship where she is there to serve and you to purchase. The prices are set, the service is clearly laid out and neither of you are in any way relevant to the other beyond the transaction. Nothing you say to each other can have any bearing on the outcome of your interaction. Turns out your McDonalds is an auction house and your McDonalds girl is the Auctioneer; your attempt to describe a manual trade ended up describing an auction house! Now who is it that doesn't know what he's talking about?
Of course you clearly don't care to listen since you begin bringing up the ESO specific guild features which are not relevant to our particular discussion (despite being the main topic of the thread). You asked me about how an AH harms social interaction and I answered. Now you dodge the entire argument by bringing up guild control. We are done here.
Originally posted by Abndn God forbid you'd have to interact with other human beings to trade in an MMORPG.
So if i join 5 guilds with 500 people a piece simply to do this every 30 seconds
/g "WTS EPIC SWORD OF AWESOME 30k PST"
Oh well now i feel enlightened, im so glad that i was able to experience such interaction.
It's certainly a step on the way towards making MMORPG's multiplayer games again.
Explain.
Everyone keep saying that, ive seen this similar statement several times but nobody has explained how having an auction house, means the game is no longer a multiplayer MMORPG anymore.
Do you feel close to the McDonalds employee just because you are greeted by their smile and a name tag with just their first name?
How about walmart, think you know all the staff like family because someone is there to greet you when you arrive through the giant sliding doors?
Do you think Amazon is a plague on society because i can buy any thing i want, any time i want, anywhere i want and never have to interact with another living soul besides the UPS driver?
What youre saying is silly.
Your McDonalds employee analogy is what's silly.
The idea here is that modern MMORPG's are less social experiences and lack strong communities because so much of the gameplay is impersonal. You buy your stuff on the AH, you group cross-server with people you'll never see again, you level up alone because soloing is encouraged when grouping isn't more rewarding. The list goes on.
When you trade in person in an MMORPG you are not dealing with a faceless employee, you're dealing with another player on your server that you'll likely come across again if you keep playing. You talk to each other, you haggle, you come to an agreement or you don't. You're interacting with another person in a meaningful way and in the end that's what multiplayer games are all about.
amen bro
Ive gone to the same mcdonalds for the last 6 years, 3 or 4 times a week. I havent said a sentence beyond my order to the girl work works there and ive seen her more then ive seen some members of my family.
You have no idea what youre talking about. This system only penalizes solo players, and it does so to the extent that If youre not in a major guild that pvps you are fucked. Because you are regulated to only selling items while you are online.
Guilds controlling the economy is totally fair. I cant see how this could possibly go wrong.
Nope, couldn't possibly cause trouble in game, my guess is that if they don't do something about opening up trade in the game in the first 3 months, then the shear volume of complaints about it are likely to be negatively impacting. Those who do not learn from history inevitably repeat it's mistakes, this situation is not a new one.
Nope, couldn't possibly cause trouble in game, my guess is that if they don't do something about opening up trade in the game in the first 3 months, then the shear volume of complaints about it are likely to be negatively impacting. Those who do not learn from history inevitably repeat it's mistakes, this situation is not a new one.
Perhaps the lack of a convenient AH will kill the game ?
If the majority of players actually enjoy the game play and don't struggle to keep their gear current, I can't imagine there being a mass exodus due to the AH being a somewhat clunky process.
I intend to join at least 12 guilds (4 per alt) purely for the purpose of trading, and I'm sure there'll be no shortage of "trade shell" guilds. If I cannot adequately gear my characters using that mechanic to supplement my drops and quest rewards, I'll be crying on the forums too.
Originally posted by Abndn Now you dodge the entire argument by bringing up guild control. We are done here.
So he brings up a major point totally related to the perceived problem at hand, and you dismiss it as dodging and leave the discussion... do I have to say that this is how to lose a debate?
He didn't bring up a major point. ESO's guild market implementation isn't even remotely relevant to our particular sub-discussion, which is quoted and available for you to read in its entirety had you actually bothered. We were discussing the social ramifications of the auction house in a general sense, not the impact and fairness of ESOs implemented trading system.
Originally posted by Abndn God forbid you'd have to interact with other human beings to trade in an MMORPG.
So if i join 5 guilds with 500 people a piece simply to do this every 30 seconds
/g "WTS EPIC SWORD OF AWESOME 30k PST"
Oh well now i feel enlightened, im so glad that i was able to experience such interaction.
It's certainly a step on the way towards making MMORPG's multiplayer games again.
Explain.
Everyone keep saying that, ive seen this similar statement several times but nobody has explained how having an auction house, means the game is no longer a multiplayer MMORPG anymore.
Do you feel close to the McDonalds employee just because you are greeted by their smile and a name tag with just their first name?
How about walmart, think you know all the staff like family because someone is there to greet you when you arrive through the giant sliding doors?
Do you think Amazon is a plague on society because i can buy any thing i want, any time i want, anywhere i want and never have to interact with another living soul besides the UPS driver?
What youre saying is silly.
Your McDonalds employee analogy is what's silly.
The idea here is that modern MMORPG's are less social experiences and lack strong communities because so much of the gameplay is impersonal. You buy your stuff on the AH, you group cross-server with people you'll never see again, you level up alone because soloing is encouraged when grouping isn't more rewarding. The list goes on.
When you trade in person in an MMORPG you are not dealing with a faceless employee, you're dealing with another player on your server that you'll likely come across again if you keep playing. You talk to each other, you haggle, you come to an agreement or you don't. You're interacting with another person in a meaningful way and in the end that's what multiplayer games are all about.
amen bro
Ive gone to the same mcdonalds for the last 6 years, 3 or 4 times a week. I havent said a sentence beyond my order to the girl work works there and ive seen her more then ive seen some members of my family.
You have no idea what youre talking about. This system only penalizes solo players, and it does so to the extent that If youre not in a major guild that pvps you are fucked. Because you are regulated to only selling items while you are online.
Guilds controlling the economy is totally fair. I cant see how this could possibly go wrong.
As I have understood it, there will be a guild AH where guildmembers can buy and sell items between eachother. And if the guild takes over a certain keep the guildmembers can sell items to people outside the guild.
Am I wrong?
If it's true you could treat the guild as an npc guild and just sell your stuff.
"Blablabla this is going to be more social" - Great! I can't wait to be experience the best a 2014 game found to "reinforce" the community, namely harassing people to sell a f*** ITEM!
Are you actually kidding me?
If at least the social part was about overcoming challenges (tough monsters, dungeons with synchronisation needed or anything else). I can't even believe some people are excited about the idea of spamming/getting whispered all the time about items.
This is the probably the worst kind of social interaction I could think of, aside from - maybe - the people asking everyone "gold plz".
So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?
Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.
I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i dont join a guild.
This type of interaction should have other systems in place to support it. It kind of market reminds a bit of sandbox type games with player run economies. I question this move in a Theme Park.
As I have understood it, there will be a guild AH where guildmembers can buy and sell items between eachother. And if the guild takes over a certain keep the guildmembers can sell items to people outside the guild.
Am I wrong?
If it's true you could treat the guild as an npc guild and just sell your stuff.
What do you mean by the last statement? Do you mean that it would be like a NPC vendor where they'll buy whatever you're offering or do you mean you think it'll be a consignment shop? I question that if you give people the choice to organize and control a player economy that they won't try to do it with less than altruistic reasons. I don't think Eve is the way it is because of just the game.
I'm getting more and more concerned about this. I play all aspects of mmorpgs, market included. It's really hard for me to see how economy/market will be viable. Make a player shop zone or something.
Someone's going to do what someone always does. When a game lacks a system that it should have, someone will create a 3rd party app or website that will function as best it can. I remember similar sites back in Anarchy Online. I suspect, if players find the current system in ESO less convenient than an auction system, this will happen here too and thus force ESO to implement one.
"Blablabla this is going to be more social" - Great! I can't wait to be experience the best a 2014 game found to "reinforce" the community, namely harassing people to sell a f*** ITEM!
Are you actually kidding me?
If at least the social part was about overcoming challenges (tough monsters, dungeons with synchronisation needed or anything else). I can't even believe some people are excited about the idea of spamming/getting whispered all the time about items.
This is the probably the worst kind of social interaction I could think of, aside from - maybe - the people asking everyone "gold plz".
So how is this any different than any current mmo? Even mmos with trade channels get general chat spammed all day with people selling items "cheaper than AH". This may actually stop the spamming. People will know to look for a guild where they can sell their stuff. They will be in a community where people are looking to sell items and buy so there will be no need to spam general chat like ALL mmos have today.
"Do you want to PvE?" "Nah." "PvP?" "Nah. Look... Let's face it, I only joined this guild to sell my crap."
That's a difference. And if people spam even though there is an AH (which it's plainly and simply a more readily available system than a guild to sell item - as in 100% of players and alts can access an AH), I can't really believe for a minute that people will miraculously stop spamming.
Especially because prices in guilds will be LOWER than the market average price (friend = lower price), and so people who want to sell for a higher price will sell OUTSIDE of the guilds (excluding the 3 guilds that will own keeps, as they can sell to everyone without efforts).
Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.
You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.
Agreed. Hopefully some good forum trading sites pop up.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
As I have understood it, there will be a guild AH where guildmembers can buy and sell items between eachother. And if the guild takes over a certain keep the guildmembers can sell items to people outside the guild.
Am I wrong?
If it's true you could treat the guild as an npc guild and just sell your stuff.
What do you mean by the last statement? Do you mean that it would be like a NPC vendor where they'll buy whatever you're offering or do you mean you think it'll be a consignment shop? I question that if you give people the choice to organize and control a player economy that they won't try to do it with less than altruistic reasons. I don't think Eve is the way it is because of just the game.
I mean't there is no reason to not join a guild. You don't have to be social if you don't want to, you could just join a guild to sell/buy items.
As I said. As I have understood it, you can automaticly buy/sell items in the guild.
Comments
Without a single doubt.
As soon as you have to deal face-to-face with a shop owner, the whole dynamics of the experience changes.
Of course, it is inefficient, but it is undoubtedly more "social".
In the context of a village (i.e. 200 years ago), you were part of a community. You'd greet the shopkeeper by name and chat about local affairs, the weather, who in the village is cheating on their spouse, etc. In between all that, the buying and selling would take place. It would take 10 times as long as a visit to your local supermarket takes nowadays, and you'd pay 10 times more for the goods, because that village shop doesn't have the economy of scale of a modern Walmart.
In ESO, we play in a medieval setting, but players don't want to deal with the inefficiencies of medieval economies. ESO is not a virtual world, it's a themepark game. So players expect to have modern conveniences like universal mail delivery and Walmart/Amazon/Ebay.
Can you explain yours? Keeps, with markets that players can browse will be the most efficient way to sell things. Individual players, who must shout each single item to a limited number of people is the least efficient way to sell things. A Keep will allow guilds to sell stuff while the player who crafted it is online or offline. Individual players are restricted to only the time they are online to sell their wares. Seems like a pretty clear cut case of guilds owning Keeps being the far more efficient method of selling things.
That is, if selling the crafted items matters. As someone pointed out, selling the materials is often more profitable. Except in ESO, BoP is the exception, not the rule and the same thing that will drive people to look at Keep Markets instead of individual sellers will drive people to buy finished products instead of the materials. People are lazy. Efficient. Whatever.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes, social interaction is a bad thing, we should eliminate it from our multiplayer games! Oh wait,... we already did.
/sarcasm off
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
We are no less social, only what has changed is communication methods. The communication these days is way more effective, instead of spending hours to meet and learn what other people do, you can do it within a few clicks.
Who is more social in that case? The one that spent more time with a single person or one that may communicate with more people in the same time frame?
Rose tinted glasses...
This isn't about economy.
This sounds more and more like a feature that promotes PvP. You can disrupt another faction's economy by taking Keeps, and promote your own economy by taking Keeps that are adjacent to Keeps held by guilds in your own faction. The only thing missing is completely dominating opposing faction economies by stealth selling stuff to them at higher prices.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No, you are confusing "social" with "well-informed".
Socialising entails spending time with people. Would you call someone "social" if that person lives on an island by themselves (by choice), but spends all day in internet chatrooms ?
Don't meet for coffee, rather exchange a few SMS's so you and your friend can quickly and efficiently catch-up on what you did this last week ?
Of course I would.
Spending time with people - you just won't accept any other forms of spending time with people that are not the forms of past, same rose tinted glasses.
I don't agree with your proposition that socialising is merely a clinical exchange of information and needs no actual human contact. If that's "rose tinted glasses", then I prefer pink. If we stop having human contact, we'll cease to be human.
We stop being humans once we stop adapting - we cease to exist.
Ive gone to the same mcdonalds for the last 6 years, 3 or 4 times a week. I havent said a sentence beyond my order to the girl work works there and ive seen her more then ive seen some members of my family.
You have no idea what youre talking about. This system only penalizes solo players, and it does so to the extent that If youre not in a major guild that pvps you are fucked. Because you are regulated to only selling items while you are online.
Guilds controlling the economy is totally fair. I cant see how this could possibly go wrong.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Hehe i was a Legendary Grandmaster Tailor in DAOC I totally understand your point. I couldn't go anywhere w/o people sending me a tell or talking to me when I was traveling acking how much for MC or just saying hello. Real pride back then for what I achieved.
I know pretty fucking well what I'm talking about. I've had countless socially meaningful interactions while trading in games like Everquest, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Diablo 2 and more recently Darkfall and Path of Exile.
It doesn't matter how often you meet the McDonalds girl because it's an asymmetric relationship where she is there to serve and you to purchase. The prices are set, the service is clearly laid out and neither of you are in any way relevant to the other beyond the transaction. Nothing you say to each other can have any bearing on the outcome of your interaction. Turns out your McDonalds is an auction house and your McDonalds girl is the Auctioneer; your attempt to describe a manual trade ended up describing an auction house! Now who is it that doesn't know what he's talking about?
Of course you clearly don't care to listen since you begin bringing up the ESO specific guild features which are not relevant to our particular discussion (despite being the main topic of the thread). You asked me about how an AH harms social interaction and I answered. Now you dodge the entire argument by bringing up guild control. We are done here.
Nope, couldn't possibly cause trouble in game, my guess is that if they don't do something about opening up trade in the game in the first 3 months, then the shear volume of complaints about it are likely to be negatively impacting. Those who do not learn from history inevitably repeat it's mistakes, this situation is not a new one.
Perhaps the lack of a convenient AH will kill the game ?
If the majority of players actually enjoy the game play and don't struggle to keep their gear current, I can't imagine there being a mass exodus due to the AH being a somewhat clunky process.
I intend to join at least 12 guilds (4 per alt) purely for the purpose of trading, and I'm sure there'll be no shortage of "trade shell" guilds. If I cannot adequately gear my characters using that mechanic to supplement my drops and quest rewards, I'll be crying on the forums too.
He didn't bring up a major point. ESO's guild market implementation isn't even remotely relevant to our particular sub-discussion, which is quoted and available for you to read in its entirety had you actually bothered. We were discussing the social ramifications of the auction house in a general sense, not the impact and fairness of ESOs implemented trading system.
As I have understood it, there will be a guild AH where guildmembers can buy and sell items between eachother. And if the guild takes over a certain keep the guildmembers can sell items to people outside the guild.
Am I wrong?
If it's true you could treat the guild as an npc guild and just sell your stuff.
"Blablabla this is going to be more social" - Great! I can't wait to be experience the best a 2014 game found to "reinforce" the community, namely harassing people to sell a f*** ITEM!
Are you actually kidding me?
If at least the social part was about overcoming challenges (tough monsters, dungeons with synchronisation needed or anything else). I can't even believe some people are excited about the idea of spamming/getting whispered all the time about items.
This is the probably the worst kind of social interaction I could think of, aside from - maybe - the people asking everyone "gold plz".
This type of interaction should have other systems in place to support it. It kind of market reminds a bit of sandbox type games with player run economies. I question this move in a Theme Park.
What do you mean by the last statement? Do you mean that it would be like a NPC vendor where they'll buy whatever you're offering or do you mean you think it'll be a consignment shop? I question that if you give people the choice to organize and control a player economy that they won't try to do it with less than altruistic reasons. I don't think Eve is the way it is because of just the game.
I'm getting more and more concerned about this. I play all aspects of mmorpgs, market included. It's really hard for me to see how economy/market will be viable. Make a player shop zone or something.
Someone's going to do what someone always does. When a game lacks a system that it should have, someone will create a 3rd party app or website that will function as best it can. I remember similar sites back in Anarchy Online. I suspect, if players find the current system in ESO less convenient than an auction system, this will happen here too and thus force ESO to implement one.
"Do you want to PvE?" "Nah." "PvP?" "Nah. Look... Let's face it, I only joined this guild to sell my crap."
That's a difference. And if people spam even though there is an AH (which it's plainly and simply a more readily available system than a guild to sell item - as in 100% of players and alts can access an AH), I can't really believe for a minute that people will miraculously stop spamming.
Especially because prices in guilds will be LOWER than the market average price (friend = lower price), and so people who want to sell for a higher price will sell OUTSIDE of the guilds (excluding the 3 guilds that will own keeps, as they can sell to everyone without efforts).
Agreed. Hopefully some good forum trading sites pop up.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I mean't there is no reason to not join a guild. You don't have to be social if you don't want to, you could just join a guild to sell/buy items.
As I said. As I have understood it, you can automaticly buy/sell items in the guild.