Originally posted by keenber Great idea global AH spoil communities . What would be great if you can do a search for a certain crafter and if you need something making then you just ask players if they will make them and for how much. As for selling looted items I am sure players will either spam trade chat or there will be a place that the players decide to sell stuff and they will be able to deal with real players not some automated AH. It worked great in EQ and in SWG so why would it not work great in TESO.
It worked great in EQ? EQ introduced the bazaar back in 2001 with the release of Luclin. So, no EQ even realized the limitations very early on.
And SWG... lol... despite the rose-tinted glasses around here SWG was a dead game almost straight out of the gate, and got worse as it got more "enhancements". Not sure, anything ever worked great for that game.
Love you guys that either didn't play EQ or you played for one month in 1999 and make silly comments. EQ essentially had an auction house 2 years after release and 3 years before WoW popped onto the scene.
ESO ! = EQ
EQ had no form of AH initially, whereas ESO has the intra-guild shop (accessible to all members from anywhere). BIG difference. Your guild doesn't even need crafters, you could just have a few "trade managers" who make sure that certain items are always in supply.
Other than that, there will also be the shops in the Cyrodiil keeps. As long as players can port directly to the keep, even non-PVP'ers will be able to use them. As long as the guilds running the shops don't gouge, they'll have plenty of customers. If they do gouge, they'll quickly gain a terrible rep and nobody will buy from that guild's shop.
I played EQ from beta up to when they went free to play. Anybody that played the original EQ know that SOE ruined the game with the changes they made like the bazaar. The EC tunnel trading and trade chat window when you hit the common lands made a huge close communities where we could hang out and have fun just cheating with each other. As for SWG maybe it had auto scripts in the original game but some of the best trading and deals were done by searching for a crafter and have him make gear for you and after a few years good crafters got a rep and people would come from miles just to see what that trade was selling. Before you start saying that we could display things in a shop how do you know we won't be able to do the same in TESO when we get a house.
I counted 18 on the map of Keeps. That would be 6 on each side. If you are on a winning side, they can take as many keep as they want.
Two Keeps will be closer to the edges, so those should be able to be controlled easier than the ones in the middle that are the only ones needed to be controlled to become emperor.
Well organized guilds will probably have multiple guilds to help take keeps just for a guild AH. I could see chat in PvE for these guilds that want to sell saying that their AH is open and they can take you there like a caravan. You should be able to be a guest and port into the Keep that isn't under siege. So anyone can look through and buy gear from a guild by invite or just knowing which Keep in Cyrodiil is the best AH.
I like the idea, it should control costs overall of gear. It can lead to players buying and building multiple pack horses to store their gear and set up "shop" in public spots on in the game. Then you could just interact with the player as a vender when they are in game. It will be difficult, but I can see it being done through crafting guilds. They could set up a different shop keeper in the same spot so they can always sell their stuff in the PvE areas.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
So let me get this right, a pure crafter - the guys that don't even like PvE, much less PvP - in order to sell their wares, they need to join a successful PvP guilds and go into the PvP zone in order put them up for sale?
And the only other option is to spam general chat?
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
So let me get this right, a pure crafter - the guys that don't even like PvE, much less PvP - in order to sell their wares, they need to join a successful PvP guilds and go into the PvP zone in order put them up for sale?
And the only other option is to spam general chat?
Or be part of a crafting guild that makes arrangements with a PvP guild. Think outside the box, would you?
And Cyrodiil is MASSIVE. The probability of you getting "surprise unwanted PvP" if all you are doing is sticking by the faction gates and close keeps is small.
My guess is that there is no AH because everyone can craft in this game and there will be probably no need for buying stuff. I did read aswell, Iam not sure if it is true, that the most powerful gear is made by crafting.
Be an interesting decision to see if they can possibly get enough "omgsandbox!!!" players to keep the game afloat, or if they torpedoed any hope of long-term viability.
Since this is the Internet Home of "omgsandbox!!!" players, I would expect great popularity locally. But since most of those guys have empires to attend to in EVE...
Be an interesting decision to see if they can possibly get enough "omgsandbox!!!" players to keep the game afloat, or if they torpedoed any hope of long-term viability.
Since this is the Internet Home of "omgsandbox!!!" players, I would expect great popularity locally. But since most of those guys have empires to attend to in EVE...
Thats true, but nobody knows how will bet he long-term-viability since beta was quiete restricted. Overall I would say the game is good, it is not a WoW killer and it is not the "Holy Grail" but the game is probably worth it to check it out for a while. And pvp especially is one of the best immersive mass pvp which I have seen since I started with mmo gaming.
Originally posted by Ice-Queen I am hopeful more new mmorpg's will abandon the Auction house feature.
Yes lets get rid of perfectly working feature from MMOS...why....because it is so damn cool!!!!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by spizz My guess is that there is no AH because everyone can craft in this game and there will be probably no need for buying stuff. I did read aswell, Iam not sure if it is true, that the most powerful gear is made by crafting.
Everyone can craft, but good luck trying to get all the materials you'll need to in order to level each and every crafting profession. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be a massive investment of time, making it fairly unwieldy.
Originally posted by spizz My guess is that there is no AH because everyone can craft in this game and there will be probably no need for buying stuff. I did read aswell, Iam not sure if it is true, that the most powerful gear is made by crafting.
Everyone can craft, but good luck trying to get all the materials you'll need to in order to level each and every crafting profession. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be a massive investment of time, making it fairly unwieldy.
Not to mention an investment of skill points that could be better spent elsewhere. I can see most people having a crafting alt that does nothing else, but even that has a problem as you get no xp for crafting.
Originally posted by Ice-Queen I am hopeful more new mmorpg's will abandon the Auction house feature.
Yes lets get rid of perfectly working feature from MMOS...why....because it is so damn cool!!!!
It's just that personal shopswith an AH like interface are better.
I have seen first hand in Aion how much better player shops really are.
Might work for games with niche population but it can not work for mainstream MMOS like ESO. Don't fix what ain't broken when there are so many others things that need to be fixed in ESO.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Professor78 Shocking, is this actually a step to make players actually communicate more, you know, considering its a mMo..
This is exactly why AH killed the mmorpg community. I do not think new mmo players understood how much real time trading brought communities together. In AC and EQ there would be entire days set aside each week where guilds would host auctions. Hundreds of players would show up for (in the case of AC) item mods and sales. They would post spread sheets on the forums of all the things they would sell. You could either confirm purchase there and meet in game or bid in game.
There were MANY players who did nothing more than adventure for loot (because they were powerful), craft loot and mod for the purpose of making money. They were merchants and crafters even when such old games may have lacked in these areas compared to later sandbox mmos. Even themepark games can bring this sort of game play back!
This is called PLAYER CREATED CONTENT! Auction houses that remove all player interaction utterly obliterated this social interaction in every single game it was added to.
WOAH! I think everyone is over looking you can have Guild shops to sell to guild mates AND you can have 5 guilds. So you don't even have to sell in PVP (although you will probably sell potions and consumables like mad after the first couple weeks while everyone is learning where to buy stuff like that.) Say I put something up for sell in guild A well Bob sees it and notices Stan needs them in Guild B. Well Bob may buy them and sell them for price, or he can charge a little on top. It also help enforce... "what is it worth to me" selling. Which means you end up with far more gold moving around and it kicks the bots right in the nuts along with no follow command, and resources that respawn but just slightly off the original so you can't auto farm them.
You can't just judge no AH on it's own you have to put it into preceptive with the other systems of the games as well.
Chat needs work IMO. I put it in my beta feedback and stand by the fact that while functional it's very clunky. If we are going to have to depend heavily on that to buy and sell things we should have the ability to have separate chat windows on screen and not just separate tabs.
Putting public shops in PVP keeps adds a interesting inventive to a faction to hold enough territory to keep that open. As long as the keep is secure and not under siege you can call right to it from the gate so there is no real risk for PVE players here but there is incentive to keep the shops open.
We can be part of up to 4 guilds if I remember right and someone here said each can have up to 500 members each. The nice part of this is we could see multi guild alliances spring up with trading posts among the members. The downside is that 500 members even account wide seems very small to me for a large alliance. I would hope that Zenimax expands this by launch into the thousands especially given the mega server means everyone will be on one server.
Guild banks seemed pretty big to me at 1000 items base. Anyone can create a guild but you have to have 10 members if I remember right to despot stuff in the guild bank.
No global chat channels that I saw but I might have missed it. That makes selling stuff harder for sure.
All in all I think this system has promise but some of the supporting systems need tweaking to really make the most out of it. The chat interface needs work to make it more trader friendly and guild sizes need to either be increased or the concept of alliances needs to be improved. Doing those two things especially the chat interface and I think no global AH could be a very good thing for the game and would really encourage socialization.
I don't mind this idea even though I rarely end up in a guild. I didn't look but if it's not in, I hope they have a trade channel which would have the option of being turned on and off.
I'll have a couple of alts to send SOME items to but a trade channel would allow the soloers out there to sell some items w/o overwhelming the chat (general).
One reason for the is to make PVP more important instead of capture the flag. PVP may have a major affect on your Alliance's economy. If it works out well the it will be an incredible feature, if it doesnt then they probably will put in a global AH in the future. People always complain about every game release is the same game that has been released every year for a decade just under a different IP but when a company steps outside the norm and implements a more unique feature then people complain about trying new things to make a different type of MMO. Developers can never win, i would hate being a developer considering how the majority of MMO fan base acts.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by Ice-QueenI am hopeful more new mmorpg's will abandon the Auction house feature.
Yes lets get rid of perfectly working feature from MMOS...why....because it is so damn cool!!!!
With the exception that because of a megaserver, you are essentially taking all the Auction Houses, from ever server that a game would have, and put them all together, which generally makes items far to readily available, and drives prices way down. No idea how many servers WoW has any more, but combining the AH from 30 different servers, would be a mess.
I'm not sold that this is the right way to do it, but a megaserver AH would have created quite a few other issues.
Originally posted by miagisan I actually like it. I always hated universal AHs. I like the idea of player/guild shops, makes for a more regional economy.
thats is sux because if you from EU will be hard trade with USA player ..
Comments
ESO ! = EQ
EQ had no form of AH initially, whereas ESO has the intra-guild shop (accessible to all members from anywhere). BIG difference. Your guild doesn't even need crafters, you could just have a few "trade managers" who make sure that certain items are always in supply.
Other than that, there will also be the shops in the Cyrodiil keeps. As long as players can port directly to the keep, even non-PVP'ers will be able to use them. As long as the guilds running the shops don't gouge, they'll have plenty of customers. If they do gouge, they'll quickly gain a terrible rep and nobody will buy from that guild's shop.
I counted 18 on the map of Keeps. That would be 6 on each side. If you are on a winning side, they can take as many keep as they want.
Two Keeps will be closer to the edges, so those should be able to be controlled easier than the ones in the middle that are the only ones needed to be controlled to become emperor.
Well organized guilds will probably have multiple guilds to help take keeps just for a guild AH. I could see chat in PvE for these guilds that want to sell saying that their AH is open and they can take you there like a caravan. You should be able to be a guest and port into the Keep that isn't under siege. So anyone can look through and buy gear from a guild by invite or just knowing which Keep in Cyrodiil is the best AH.
I like the idea, it should control costs overall of gear. It can lead to players buying and building multiple pack horses to store their gear and set up "shop" in public spots on in the game. Then you could just interact with the player as a vender when they are in game. It will be difficult, but I can see it being done through crafting guilds. They could set up a different shop keeper in the same spot so they can always sell their stuff in the PvE areas.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Its something new, don't be afraid.
Chances are It would be called a clone if not...some never happy.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
So let me get this right, a pure crafter - the guys that don't even like PvE, much less PvP - in order to sell their wares, they need to join a successful PvP guilds and go into the PvP zone in order put them up for sale?
And the only other option is to spam general chat?
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Or be part of a crafting guild that makes arrangements with a PvP guild. Think outside the box, would you?
And Cyrodiil is MASSIVE. The probability of you getting "surprise unwanted PvP" if all you are doing is sticking by the faction gates and close keeps is small.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Be an interesting decision to see if they can possibly get enough "omgsandbox!!!" players to keep the game afloat, or if they torpedoed any hope of long-term viability.
Since this is the Internet Home of "omgsandbox!!!" players, I would expect great popularity locally. But since most of those guys have empires to attend to in EVE...
Thats true, but nobody knows how will bet he long-term-viability since beta was quiete restricted. Overall I would say the game is good, it is not a WoW killer and it is not the "Holy Grail" but the game is probably worth it to check it out for a while. And pvp especially is one of the best immersive mass pvp which I have seen since I started with mmo gaming.
Yes lets get rid of perfectly working feature from MMOS...why....because it is so damn cool!!!!
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
You stay sassy!
Everyone can craft, but good luck trying to get all the materials you'll need to in order to level each and every crafting profession. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be a massive investment of time, making it fairly unwieldy.
Not to mention an investment of skill points that could be better spent elsewhere. I can see most people having a crafting alt that does nothing else, but even that has a problem as you get no xp for crafting.
It's just that personal shopswith an AH like interface are better.
I have seen first hand in Aion how much better player shops really are.
Might work for games with niche population but it can not work for mainstream MMOS like ESO. Don't fix what ain't broken when there are so many others things that need to be fixed in ESO.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
This is exactly why AH killed the mmorpg community. I do not think new mmo players understood how much real time trading brought communities together. In AC and EQ there would be entire days set aside each week where guilds would host auctions. Hundreds of players would show up for (in the case of AC) item mods and sales. They would post spread sheets on the forums of all the things they would sell. You could either confirm purchase there and meet in game or bid in game.
There were MANY players who did nothing more than adventure for loot (because they were powerful), craft loot and mod for the purpose of making money. They were merchants and crafters even when such old games may have lacked in these areas compared to later sandbox mmos. Even themepark games can bring this sort of game play back!
This is called PLAYER CREATED CONTENT! Auction houses that remove all player interaction utterly obliterated this social interaction in every single game it was added to.
You stay sassy!
WOAH! I think everyone is over looking you can have Guild shops to sell to guild mates AND you can have 5 guilds. So you don't even have to sell in PVP (although you will probably sell potions and consumables like mad after the first couple weeks while everyone is learning where to buy stuff like that.) Say I put something up for sell in guild A well Bob sees it and notices Stan needs them in Guild B. Well Bob may buy them and sell them for price, or he can charge a little on top. It also help enforce... "what is it worth to me" selling. Which means you end up with far more gold moving around and it kicks the bots right in the nuts along with no follow command, and resources that respawn but just slightly off the original so you can't auto farm them.
I'm all for this system.
You can't just judge no AH on it's own you have to put it into preceptive with the other systems of the games as well.
Chat needs work IMO. I put it in my beta feedback and stand by the fact that while functional it's very clunky. If we are going to have to depend heavily on that to buy and sell things we should have the ability to have separate chat windows on screen and not just separate tabs.
Putting public shops in PVP keeps adds a interesting inventive to a faction to hold enough territory to keep that open. As long as the keep is secure and not under siege you can call right to it from the gate so there is no real risk for PVE players here but there is incentive to keep the shops open.
We can be part of up to 4 guilds if I remember right and someone here said each can have up to 500 members each. The nice part of this is we could see multi guild alliances spring up with trading posts among the members. The downside is that 500 members even account wide seems very small to me for a large alliance. I would hope that Zenimax expands this by launch into the thousands especially given the mega server means everyone will be on one server.
Guild banks seemed pretty big to me at 1000 items base. Anyone can create a guild but you have to have 10 members if I remember right to despot stuff in the guild bank.
No global chat channels that I saw but I might have missed it. That makes selling stuff harder for sure.
All in all I think this system has promise but some of the supporting systems need tweaking to really make the most out of it. The chat interface needs work to make it more trader friendly and guild sizes need to either be increased or the concept of alliances needs to be improved. Doing those two things especially the chat interface and I think no global AH could be a very good thing for the game and would really encourage socialization.
I don't mind this idea even though I rarely end up in a guild. I didn't look but if it's not in, I hope they have a trade channel which would have the option of being turned on and off.
I'll have a couple of alts to send SOME items to but a trade channel would allow the soloers out there to sell some items w/o overwhelming the chat (general).
With the exception that because of a megaserver, you are essentially taking all the Auction Houses, from ever server that a game would have, and put them all together, which generally makes items far to readily available, and drives prices way down. No idea how many servers WoW has any more, but combining the AH from 30 different servers, would be a mess.
I'm not sold that this is the right way to do it, but a megaserver AH would have created quite a few other issues.
thats is sux because if you from EU will be hard trade with USA player ..