Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Twitter conversation between Massively and MMORPG

13

Comments

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Member UncommonPosts: 1,010
    Originally posted by Zaradoom

    That conversation describes it pretty well.

     

    I did try to get off the isle and hit around level 10. Only managed midway and lvl 5 tho,... really it is so god damn boring and awful (and i keep hearing that is only the start). I just did not manage to force myself trough.

    Really hope i can bypass this barrier and get into the game next beta to experience the change first hand. Bashing the game is easy, as it feels like crap... but enough people talk about this tutorial isle / level 10 thing that i want to reach it and see myself. Would not be the first game to suddenly become good later on.

     

    For the records tho: What the hell did the betatesters do up to this point if the VERY START is so ugly that it is turning away people before the game gets a real chance? Seriously.

    I had fun at the VERY START.  Either way...with all this clamoring about end game, why do people care what the game is like in the VERY START?  You play it for a short period, then it's completely forgotten.  Rather have it the other way around, would you?  Holy Shit Balls Ass Awesome to start off, then the novelty wears off, and it's blah to max level?

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Originally posted by srsnoob

    Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.

    There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.

    Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL

    Are you trying to say that you caring so much about what other people care about is somehow a more worthy endeavor?

  • Stuka1000Stuka1000 Member UncommonPosts: 955
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Just shows how unprofessional gaming magazine staff is and why their "reviews" are so worthless.

    This is a hilarious post.

    If a 'professional' finds the starting area to be awful, wouldn't it be 'unprofessional' to NOT say 'the part I played is awful'?

    Whether the rest of the MMO is good or not is irrelevant as they are 'NDA' and thus, we would expect 'professional' to abide by that.

    What is unproffesional is entering the game, attempting to blast through in a linear fashion without looking right or left and then writing a review that says the game is crap.  These people influence the buying decisions of the people who read their reviews and as such have a responsibility to examine all there is to see within the timeframe allowed.  I stated in another post that reading many of those so called previews it sounded like the reviewer had gone into the game and tried to play it like they would play WoW, and that means that they missed the point entirely.

  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,360

    TESO saying about the "new player experience" is a very familiar concept...

    Hmmm... I wonder when was the last time I heard those words...

    Ah! Star Wars Galaxy!

     

    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • srsnoobsrsnoob Member Posts: 44
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob

    Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.

    There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.

    Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL

    Are you trying to say that you caring so much about what other people care about is somehow a more worthy endeavor?

    More like I'm just curious why. And I also like to pretend like I'm intelligent sometimes. It's fun. 

    Coloring to print : Famous characters - Troll face - Derp Derpina number 139106

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Originally posted by srsnoob
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob

    Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.

    There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.

    Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL

    Are you trying to say that you caring so much about what other people care about is somehow a more worthy endeavor?

    More like I'm just curious why. And I also like to pretend like I'm intelligent sometimes. It's fun. 

     

    Ok, it's pretty simple.

    Some of us like what we're seeing with ESO. We would like it to be a big hit so that developers will keep adding content - because more subscribers mean more money for development.

    Now, when we see previews that we consider misleading and with what seems like obvious ignorance, or worse, bias - we're witnessing something that could potentially dissuade people from trying ESO and giving it a proper chance.

    That means these previews have the potential to hurt the game that we like - and may even grow to like a LOT.

    So, we're speaking out against it - hoping that some people might pick up on our comments and give the game the chance we feel it deserves.

    Is that something you can understand?

  • srsnoobsrsnoob Member Posts: 44
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob

    Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.

    There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.

    Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL

    Are you trying to say that you caring so much about what other people care about is somehow a more worthy endeavor?

    More like I'm just curious why. And I also like to pretend like I'm intelligent sometimes. It's fun. 

     

    Ok, it's pretty simple.

    Some of us like what we're seeing with ESO. We would like it to be a big hit so that developers will keep adding content - because more subscribers mean more money for development.

    Now, when we see previews that we consider misleading and with what seems like obvious ignorance, or worse, bias - we're witnessing something that could potentially dissuade people from trying ESO and giving it a proper chance.

    That means these previews have the potential to hurt the game that we like - and may even grow to like a LOT.

    So, we're speaking out against it - hoping that some people might pick up on our comments and give the game the chance we feel it deserves.

    Is that something you can understand?

    Yes actually. Now next time if you gave examples of reports you thought were misleading and explain why, it would be even better. But that's good enough for me for now. Good luck.

  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    Originally posted by srsnoob
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by srsnoob

    Let us examine this issue of people being upset because a product they like is getting bad press.

    There are two sides to this coin. One is the press and one is the consumer. Press is defined loosely here; anyone who was given permission by zenimax to speak about their experiences is considered as press. Now since there is such a wide breadth of people considered as press and no official standard set for game journalists in general, the consumers receive many viewpoints, in many formats, in varying degrees of depth and objectivity. But what is objectivity? Wikipedia tells use that objectivity in journalism equivocates to neutrality, meaning to put aside all personal interests and preconceptions. Complete objectivity would mean for the journalists to present their views as if they had never played a game before. This is quite impractical and probably impossible. Rather what game journalists may do is describe their feelings and impressions towards the game in an manner such that consumers who are interested those types of games will be able to understand and relate to. But what matters most is for the journalist to be honest in their views, no matter the level of intelligence with which they are expressed. So what happened here is that some journalists liked the game, others thought it was okay and a few did not like it so much. Although you may disagree with the viewpoint or the manner is which the report was conducted, as long as the journalist was honest in their explanation of how the report was conducted and in their assessment, then there is really nothing wrong with it.

    Now let's examine the consumer. The consumer is mad because their future baby won't get the love and attention it deserves! LOL

    Are you trying to say that you caring so much about what other people care about is somehow a more worthy endeavor?

    More like I'm just curious why. And I also like to pretend like I'm intelligent sometimes. It's fun. 

     

    Ok, it's pretty simple.

    Some of us like what we're seeing with ESO. We would like it to be a big hit so that developers will keep adding content - because more subscribers mean more money for development.

    Now, when we see previews that we consider misleading and with what seems like obvious ignorance, or worse, bias - we're witnessing something that could potentially dissuade people from trying ESO and giving it a proper chance.

    That means these previews have the potential to hurt the game that we like - and may even grow to like a LOT.

    So, we're speaking out against it - hoping that some people might pick up on our comments and give the game the chance we feel it deserves.

    Is that something you can understand?

    Yes actually. Now next time if you gave examples of reports you thought were misleading and explain why, it would be even better. But that's good enough for me for now. Good luck.

    Thank you.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • IDontThinkSoNoIDontThinkSoNo Member UncommonPosts: 57
    Hey some people I've never met, nor will never meet are having a conversation involving their opinions of a game they don't like!  Neato!  
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by reeereee

     

    Perhaps these mmo "reviewers" simply mirror the mmo audience?


     

    Yeah, because if I dislike something, everyone else does too, right?


    The point of the review is to provide factual information so I can get a picture about game mechanics and somewhat evaluate whether it appeals to me.


    The information whether some uneducated, feeble-minded individual finds the game boring or awesome is absolutely worthless as it does not relate to me in any way.

     

    You do realize they were posting on their personal Twitter accounts, right?  It's not a review, it's a series of Twitter posts.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • askdabossaskdaboss Member UncommonPosts: 631
    Originally posted by DKLond

    If you understand game design and you're aware that not all MMOs have to work in an identical fashion to be acceptable, ESO will grab you quite quickly, if you're into its design.

    If it doesn't grab you until level 10, it's because you're not an informed gamer and you lack the open mind required for a fair evaluation. Even worse, you might be biased against it from the start - which makes you worthless as a person providing accurate feedback.

    Yeah... well. There are two things that you should consider though:

    - This game isn't really supposed to be a "niche game" and they are trying to appeal to as many people as possible, while keeping their specificities (I am OK with that).

    - The game designers still have a duty to ease people into their new game mechanics. This is their job.

     

    What you are saying is essentially that it's OK to for a restaurant to force you to eat brussel sprouts (that you hate) before you can try the delicious apple pie that has been recommended by all your friends.

    Well... In a way you are right, it is perfectly legal for the restaurant to do this, but then I can easily understand why half of the population would be put off by this and why many people would leave the place before trying the pie.

     

    The game isn't the problem - you're the problem.

    But the customer/user has very little to lose if they chose NOT to invest in the game... (I don't like it > I don't play it > I don't pay for it)
    Whereas the game designer loses potentially on revenues, years of hard work by choosing to NOT ease their customers in the game (They don't like it > we still worked on it > we still paid for it).
     
    Frankly, I'm sure ZO knows this, and they will most likely improve their starter areas as they want our money, as any respectable business do.
     
     

    In essence, I am saying: they should improve the starter area to appeal to more people faster, so that everyone can enjoy the fun game mechanics at a later stage. I don't see how anyone could oppose that.

     
  • ImperialSunImperialSun Member Posts: 212
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Just shows how unprofessional gaming magazine staff is and why their "reviews" are so worthless.

    How is it unprofessional?

    1. It's his own personal Twitter account.

    2. Based on the large number of previews (not reviews) I have read / watched, the man is telling the gods honest truth.

     

    Or are you saying he should lie about his impressions and experiences with the game because that would be professional?

     

    Driz

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919

    Imo some people are upset because reviewers haven't fallen over themselves to heap praise on ESO. That's my opinion just as the Twitter feed is a couple of folks bouncing opinions off each other.

    A good review makes it easy to discern what is fact from what is opinion. And any review that shows actual game footage will contain some facts - you can always turn the sound down! 

     

     

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by Arthasm

    Tell me, what was so awesome to enjoy exploration of boring, empty island?

    Well, for one, it's fully coherent and helps you get into the game world.

     

    Personally, I thought that the starting experience was quite decent for a story-based themepark game, which ESO is.

     

    It's when i started exploration of the boring, empty main continent of the game, that i felt like the air was suddenly let out.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • SoulTrapOnSelfSoulTrapOnSelf Member Posts: 190
    they get paid for it... the real reviews are the ones released after the game launches, but these days, you don't need to wait, just access beta and experience the game for yourself
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    To all the "I miss the days when reviewers were 'professionals'", please give us some examples of these 'professional' reviewers. Funny, I've never heard of one. If there is anyone more qualified to review an MMO than these two, I'd be very interested to hear about them. It's not like these are people who just have a website with 10 viewers a day and a YouTube channel with the same number of subscribers. This is about as professional as it gets, sorry. 

     

    People are always saying that reviews are subjective, but look at these three "professional" reviewers all complaining about the same thing. I think that anyone in the beta could identify with the problems. That's not to say it's going to be a bad game, just saying there are hook problems. It's nothing new in MMOs and it may not be bad enough to make you want to punch yourself in the face, but there is obviously some problem. Nothing that won't be a concern to a TES fan, though, probably.

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 966
    Originally posted by greenreen

    Oh my, didn't Beau get uppity.

    Anyone remember when all he did was talk about Ryzom and how you had to give it a chance... how you couldn't stop at the starter island and how great it is once you get to the mainland. How you were bothered with quests on the starter island but were FREE TO EXPLORE ONCE YOU LEFT THE STARTER ZONE. The man was religiously chasing that game and was even on here talking about it back in the old days. I remember that guy when he was begging for views for his videos and making podcasts with about 3 listeners. http://ryzompodcast.wordpress.com/

    My join date on this account might be 2012 but I've been around here longer and deleted an account.

    Someone should have thrown that in his face, how he said the same things about Ryzom but no one knows his history apparently. Just me... and the internet.

    He sure has changed. Back then he was like the nice guy, now he's got the nerve to talk smack about games huh. Well maybe that's just what happens when you play a bunch of free games - your head expands to the size of a watermelon and you suddenly think you have more weight than you do because someone pays you to test all the free junk.

     

    +1.  Nicely said.  Had me laughing.  :)

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by lizardbones

    You do realize they were posting on their personal Twitter accounts, right?  It's not a review, it's a series of Twitter posts.


    The problem is, their tweets despite being just personal notes, are very much the same content and aproach wise as the "reviews".

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by lizardbones

    You do realize they were posting on their personal Twitter accounts, right?  It's not a review, it's a series of Twitter posts.


     


    The problem is, their tweets despite being just personal notes, are very much the same content and aproach wise as the "reviews".

     

    And yet this thread is about the Twitter posts.  At some point, people are going to ask their personal opinions, because they want to know about their personal opinions.  Twitter is the place for personal opinions.  I've read Smedley's personal opinions regarding Mucinex on Twitter, if you can believe that.

     

    Here's a definition of "review" : examine or assess (something) formally with the possibility or intention of instituting change if necessary.

     

    So, with that in mind, the introduction to the game has been formally examined, and in their opinion needs to be changed.  Your definition of "professional review" is one that you seem to have made up yourself.  Siskel & Ebert reviewed movies for years and I remember many opinions bandied about, and among them, "boring" was one.

     

    There's nothing wrong with these guys expressing their opinions on Twitter, and there's nothing wrong with them expressing their opinions in articles and reviews of the game.  It's part of the process.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Member UncommonPosts: 689
    The starting area is fucking awful and gives a horrible impression for what the game will be like.  And the getting off the island thing happens to all of us who try to play it like an actual TES game.  There are so many invisible walls and gated content in this damn game it's sickening.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by lizardbonesAnd yet this thread is about the Twitter posts.  At some point, people are going to ask their personal opinions, because they want to know about their personal opinions.  Twitter is the place for personal opinions.  I've read Smedley's personal opinions regarding Mucinex on Twitter, if you can believe that. Here's a definition of "review" : examine or assess (something) formally with the possibility or intention of instituting change if necessary. So, with that in mind, the introduction to the game has been formally examined, and in their opinion needs to be changed.  Your definition of "professional review" is one that you seem to have made up yourself.  Siskel & Ebert reviewed movies for years and I remember many opinions bandied about, and among them, "boring" was one. There's nothing wrong with these guys expressing their opinions on Twitter, and there's nothing wrong with them expressing their opinions in articles and reviews of the game.  It's part of the process.

    I never said there is anything wrong with the tweets, I only implied that the reviews these days are no different than tweets as they are the same in content - that alone should give one a hint.

    The argument about reviews is rather simple:

    Once you start inputing your own bias and opinions, then you are no longer revewing a product and review no longer serves the purpose of examaning the product since you shifted the subject of examination - to yourself.

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Just shows how unprofessional gaming magazine staff is and why their "reviews" are so worthless.

     

    Yeah how silly of them to point out that the first 10 levels are horrible and unbearable for most players. Most players who don't have an emotional investment in the franchise would not put up with that crap, so it needs to be communicated to Zenimax that it is bad, but hey if you want to play a ghost town game because everyone uninstalls after 5 hours then more power to you.

    Where is the belief that the starter zone is the first 10 levels coming from?  You can get out of the starter zone way before level 10.  Level 10 is just where PvP access begins.

  • R.LimaR.Lima Member UncommonPosts: 135
    Originally posted by Gadareth

    Its a sign of the times. In the past a game review was just that a review of the game the reviewer would play through the parts of the game he had access to and describe what it was he was playing. The magazine who paid the reviewer made sure that the person reviewing was one with an active interest in that sort of game. this meant that the reviewer would point out the key features. Only at the end of the review would the reviewer give his own opinion in a paragraph carefully worded so you understood this was opinion and not fact.

    Now we are in the situation where anyone is a reviewer whilst this is not a bad thing I have seen a steep decline in professionalism and more of a grand standing approach. There is less "fact" in reviews and more opinion and the reviewers are normally trying to push their opinion as fact.

    For example F2P and P2P outside of mentioning these factors no GAME reviewer should make more of it than just stating the payment model as it has no foundation on the game play/.

    That post also illustrates another issue with current reviewers they are not actually reviewing the game rather than seeing what the game has to offer they seem to be constantly trying to push it into a box of what they believe it should be.

    Please if any reviewers read this PLAY THE GAME and let us know whats there I don't care if you were bored to death because rather than playing the game and exploring the starter island and seeing what it offered  you spent your entire time trying to skip it.  Your review is on the game as its meant to be played if you cannot do that then please get a real job doing something your actually capable of.

    Just my 2 cents.

     

     

     

    Great post.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,187
    If you are going to review any game... MMO, FPS, RTS, etc, etc... You need to nut up and give it more than a few hours.
Sign In or Register to comment.