Of course it should be removed. This is one of the worst features to be added to MMORPG. People will say well just turn it off but the game isn't designed such that you can do that because half the time they don't give you directions in the quest dialog and half the time they implement the quest so poorly that it is confusing without the marker. This is just a crutch for lazy game design.
I believe most of us has been spoiled by the GPS that shouldn't exist in a medieval/fantasy setting over the last 10-14 years. MMORPGs didn't start with this system and haven't always had it contrary to what some people in this thread have suggested. I'd prefer not to have a GPS to show me where to go, but when I play games without it I'll admit I get a bit frustrated as I'm used to having it there now. Most of the people who play MMOs these days would have never had the patience to actually look for something. Most just don't have patience period.
Horrible idea. MORE aimless wandering around, doing nothing.
ESO already has the subtitles "aimless wandering doing nothing - animator". Because that's what you do. Walk 10 minutes, kill one dude, walk 5 minutes, kill 3 dudes. And you want MORE of just walking around?? Seriously? o.0
Horrible idea. MORE aimless wandering around, doing nothing. The Elder Scrolls games already have the subtitles "aimless wandering doing nothing - animator". Because that's what you do. Walk 10 minutes, kill one dude, walk 5 minutes, kill 3 dudes. And you want MORE of just walking around?? Seriously? o.0
I went ahead and fixed that.
Someone who launched a thread complaining dungeons aren't big enough, aren't long enough, and aren't immersive enough.
Is complaining about exploring?
I hate FPS games, always have and always will. I accept other people like these games. FPS games aren't bad, soley because I don't like them. Some are really good. Bioshock Infinite. I didn't like the game. It's a great game, I fully admit to it. I get why people love it. But I personally didn't like it, not even slightly. However, as I said, think it's great.
If I was you, I would have just said, "Run around shoot people! Stop and Pick things up. That's all you do. It sucks!"
That's pretty much what you are doing here.
Also Oblivion and Skyrim, were the games that added fast travel and quest markers. So your aimless wandering doing nothing -animator point is meaningless. ESO has it as well. Morrowind was the game, that didn't have those things. It's closer to what your point is. The animations back then looked like your character ate at the taco truck and shit their pants while running around. But it also happens to be people's favorite game in the series, for the same exact things you are complaining about.
It's just your preference dude.
No!
The DIFFERENCE is: in an ES single player game there IS nothing aimless about wandering: you always find stuff to do. You stumble over a cave or whatever and explore stuff to do. ES ONLINE is by nature as all MMORPGs a GOAL oriented game. There is simply little to nothing to achive in the ONLINE variant of ES as compared to the single player games.
Not to speak that walking in Skyrim is scenic, and ESO... is not so much.
In ESO you can stumble into a cave and find a quest you wouldn't have been led to. This is not exploration?
If there were to be no quest markers, then people would just look up the info on wiki's. It just cuts out the middle man. Also I would like to point out, there are many quests in ESO that you have to explore off the beaten path to find.
The problem is that the quests have to be written very well in order to give the players an actual chance of finding the quest location and the larger problem is that there are players who don't like searching for things.
I'd rather do away with quest makers all together but I fear I'm in the minority.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Draucant If there were to be no quest markers, then people would just look up the info on wiki's. It just cuts out the middle man. Also I would like to point out, there are many quests in ESO that you have to explore off the beaten path to find.
I actually don't think this is the case, but even if they did look it up it would still require more patience and be more difficult then following an in game GPS to the exact location. I doubt most people would be willing to spend the required time to do it.
How about removing quest markers,improve quest descriptions so one has enough clues in them to find the npc and make the npcs to go around the town,doing their own stuff so wiki is less helpful,people having to rely on their own skills or ask other players for help ? Yes,probably a bad idea in today mmo community but in a good community it could be fun.
On of my major issues with Elder Scrolls Online are the QUEST MARKERS. This is actually why I was not sure about this game after I played the 1st closed beta and the game was 50:50 for me. With the quest markings on the map I did fell like playing "TESO quests on RAILS".
The quest markings were my major complain after playing the game the first time, it did feel people are doing quests like on a "production line".
And this trend of quests marks and compass markings or even more simple quest helpers is bad in my opinion. It takes a away a lot of the immersion and it leads like I said already to "production line questing".
In World of Warcraft there was a time when you did not have quest marks on your map and this was actually great. The community did socialize more, was active in the chat with helping others. There were websites dedicated to quest content i.e. Thottbot.
I think that quest helper in form of compass markings are enough to find the quests, but to give more the chance to explore the world with a lot more excitement without the feel ticking quest after quest. Swtor was the worse so far, people were running around with an open transparent map....ticking quest after quest...it was terrible and was rather a "running simulator".
I would think that as it stands now a lot of players are spamming chat asking about quest locations and what to do next. That would only increase if this were to be implemented. Unless you're a role-player, gone are the days of taking hours or even weeks to figure out the next step in a quest.
I also understand that people like to speculate on reinventing or improving the wheel, even before the wheel has been officially launched and is still in testing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I've played games with no quest markers, and as much as I like the idea, it gets really ugly when you can spend hours trying to find an npc, especially in a big city. I like the idea that you are given more traditional point of reference directions maybe to find the objective of a quest, but especially trying to find npc's that you have to talk to is just horrid without quest markers.
I would think that as it stands now a lot of players are spamming chat asking about quest locations and what to do next. That would only increase if this were to be implemented. Unless you're a role-player, gone are the days of taking hours or even weeks to figure out the next step in a quest.
I also understand that people like to speculate on reinventing or improving the wheel, even before the wheel has been officially launched and is still in testing.
I wonder why this did work quiete well in World of Warcraft. The game had no quest markings at all.
100% Absolutely should be removed!!!! It takes away from the feeling of talking to random people and reciving a quest from them, which is part of ADVENTURING that so many ES games have.
ONLY THE MAIN STORY LINE SHOULD HAVE THESE MARKERS, OPTION QUESTS SHOULD NEVER HAVE THEM.
I'm Always Right in the End and this should have been a no brainer for the dev team. It will happen because of outrage of fans.
I've played games with no quest markers, and as much as I like the idea, it gets really ugly when you can spend hours trying to find an npc, especially in a big city. I like the idea that you are given more traditional point of reference directions maybe to find the objective of a quest, but especially trying to find npc's that you have to talk to is just horrid without quest markers.
It doesn't have to be a horrid experience.
For instance, the quest could tell you that the required NPC always hangs-out in the Fish Market, or on Elm Street. If the NPC's are programmed to answer questions regarding directions and locations, that's another aid to finding quest targets. There are many interesting ways to provide quest info other than glowing arrows, etc.
Unfortunately, the effort involved in designing and implementing all those features would be largely wasted on the average player, who seems primarily interested in getting to level-cap as fast as possible, without "wasting time" along the way...
I would think that as it stands now a lot of players are spamming chat asking about quest locations and what to do next. That would only increase if this were to be implemented. Unless you're a role-player, gone are the days of taking hours or even weeks to figure out the next step in a quest.
I also understand that people like to speculate on reinventing or improving the wheel, even before the wheel has been officially launched and is still in testing.
I wonder why this did work quiete well in World of Warcraft. The game had no quest markings at all.
I think times have changed. I hear Zygor Guides which specializes in WOW detailed quest markers as an add-on is doing a lot of business these days and has been for awhile now.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I would think that as it stands now a lot of players are spamming chat asking about quest locations and what to do next. That would only increase if this were to be implemented. Unless you're a role-player, gone are the days of taking hours or even weeks to figure out the next step in a quest.
I also understand that people like to speculate on reinventing or improving the wheel, even before the wheel has been officially launched and is still in testing.
I wonder why this did work quiete well in World of Warcraft. The game had no quest markings at all.
I think times have changed. I hear Zygor Guides which specializes in WOW detailed quest markers as an add-on is doing a lot of business these days and has been for awhile now.
If a game has too easy quest helpers it leads to a "running simulator" and unfortunately ESO feels sometimes like "ESO Questing on Rails" due to the quest markings on map. It would be enough to have quest markings on your compass already.
Because questing is so easy with quest markings and compass, everyone is only running around to the next direction of the quest symbol and of course you are not the only one on these "Highways", it leads not only to "Questing on Rails" it leads also to less socializing and therefore to a more "Single Player Expirience".
Times have changed in WoW and I never played the new World of Warcraft, but I did hear it changed to the worse and maybe the questing markings is one point of it that a game gets too easy. The exitement was also exploring the world during the time you were looking for the quest objectives.
For me personally too easy questing helper are a game breaker and takes away immersion and excitement. It gets boring quickly.
Just stick in a switch. Trailm, no trail, spammy arrow above the head or not. We all dont have to see it. Theyre gonna have a tonne of people coming in whov'e never played mmos. Some will need help, other's won't. Why not make it so everyone wins.
Those people who dont read the quest, guess what, they wont "win". But how long will it be before Alakazam or some such other site/ guild site starts posting footy print directions so people can mail it in? I still have my 500+ page journal from EQ1 with just about everything in it. Maps + directions, some of them scotch taped together fold outs; spells lists, crafting lists, mob loot drops... all downloaded or emailed from guildies to and fro.Those days are gone unless you "just want to play that way". I am already combing the net for any info on harvesting nodes for crafting. And I bet Im not the only one.
I do hope however that they allow for map annotation. We are explorers many of us, and It would be nice to be able to write in "plunk down fishing bobber here" on my map. I mean, I can do it old school, screenshot, edit and print or save to an editable file...it would just be nice to have it in game.
Without quest markers the ingame chat will be flooded with lazy ass people asking where to find this or where to find that because they can't be arsed to use that grey mass that we call a brain.
I believe that Quest markers should be removed on Elder Scrolls Online.
Reasons:
1. Promotes Exploration - Because of these Quest markers, most players (who come from a vast experience in mmorpg) tends to just focus on these linear quest line, rush through it and miss out on what's around them. ESO and how it is now has a pretty rough beginning game, quest lines are spread far apart and it makes players feel uncomfortable having to run extreme distances just to do a quest. However, this type of system promotes exploration as travelling over far distances may have you discover NPC's giving a quest or other environmental interactions.
2. Immersion - If Quest markers have been removed, players would have to interact with the NPC's, read what they say, and if they are asking for you to do something, odds are that is how a quest is given. This type of system will make players in ESO become more immersed with the game and it's characters.
If the little lemmings want to follow the quests and not explore, then bitch because the game is on rails then let them. They will rush to the end and then cry like little toddlers, stomp their feet and then leave. The community will be better off without them. They can go back to whatever game brings them joy.
I believe that Quest markers should be removed on Elder Scrolls Online.
Reasons:
1. Promotes Exploration - Because of these Quest markers, most players (who come from a vast experience in mmorpg) tends to just focus on these linear quest line, rush through it and miss out on what's around them. ESO and how it is now has a pretty rough beginning game, quest lines are spread far apart and it makes players feel uncomfortable having to run extreme distances just to do a quest. However, this type of system promotes exploration as travelling over far distances may have you discover NPC's giving a quest or other environmental interactions.
2. Immersion - If Quest markers have been removed, players would have to interact with the NPC's, read what they say, and if they are asking for you to do something, odds are that is how a quest is given. This type of system will make players in ESO become more immersed with the game and it's characters.
If the little lemmings want to follow the quests and not explore, then bitch because the game is on rails then let them. They will rush to the end and then cry like little toddlers, stomp their feet and then leave. The community will be better off without them. They can go back to whatever game brings them joy.
I guess you will see more people post on forums after release/beta about questing and calling it a "running simulator" or something like "Tunnel Vision Questing", especially if those skip the quest lines. But the reason lies rather in too easy quest helpers instead of the will to explore.
If it was more like other TES games where the majority of NPC's had some useful info to give or contribute then having no quest markers would work, however in this game most NPC's are "dumb" place holders and I could imagine it being incredibly boring having to talk to 50 one sentence NPC's just to find one with a quest or some useful information.
How is it that I am constantly reading about how people want hardcore games, yet there are currently more people voting to leave the hand-holding quest system in place???
Yes. Please do remove quest markers. How hard is it for a person to take the time to read "go down to the beach and gather three of these items" and find the beach with items on it...I mean seriously???
Horrible idea. MORE aimless wandering around, doing nothing. The Elder Scrolls games already have the subtitles "aimless wandering doing nothing - animator". Because that's what you do. Walk 10 minutes, kill one dude, walk 5 minutes, kill 3 dudes. And you want MORE of just walking around?? Seriously? o.0
I went ahead and fixed that.
Someone who launched a thread complaining dungeons aren't big enough, aren't long enough, and aren't immersive enough.
Is complaining about exploring?
I hate FPS games, always have and always will. I accept other people like these games. FPS games aren't bad, soley because I don't like them. Some are really good. Bioshock Infinite. I didn't like the game. It's a great game, I fully admit to it. I get why people love it. But I personally didn't like it, not even slightly. However, as I said, think it's great.
If I was you, I would have just said, "Run around shoot people! Stop and Pick things up. That's all you do. It sucks!"
That's pretty much what you are doing here.
Also Oblivion and Skyrim, were the games that added fast travel and quest markers. So your aimless wandering doing nothing -animator point is meaningless. ESO has it as well. Morrowind was the game, that didn't have those things. It's closer to what your point is. The animations back then looked like your character ate at the taco truck and shit their pants while running around. But it also happens to be people's favorite game in the series, for the same exact things you are complaining about.
It's just your preference dude.
No!
The DIFFERENCE is: in an ES single player game there IS nothing aimless about wandering: you always find stuff to do. You stumble over a cave or whatever and explore stuff to do. ES ONLINE is by nature as all MMORPGs a GOAL oriented game. There is simply little to nothing to achive in the ONLINE variant of ES as compared to the single player games.
Not to speak that walking in Skyrim is scenic, and ESO... is not so much.
In ESO you can stumble into a cave and find a quest you wouldn't have been led to. This is not exploration?
Of course it is. Elikal is just being silly because a few minor things in the game, some of which will be added in the UI by modders or polished by launch, aren't present right now.
Elikal, if you watch this video on 1080P around the 18:10 mark (for about 60 seconds), you don't think that looks scenic? I think you just need the opportunity to see more of the later levels.
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Of course it should be removed. This is one of the worst features to be added to MMORPG. People will say well just turn it off but the game isn't designed such that you can do that because half the time they don't give you directions in the quest dialog and half the time they implement the quest so poorly that it is confusing without the marker. This is just a crutch for lazy game design.
Yes I do.
In ESO you can stumble into a cave and find a quest you wouldn't have been led to. This is not exploration?
I would agree, I hate quest markers.
The problem is that the quests have to be written very well in order to give the players an actual chance of finding the quest location and the larger problem is that there are players who don't like searching for things.
I'd rather do away with quest makers all together but I fear I'm in the minority.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I actually don't think this is the case, but even if they did look it up it would still require more patience and be more difficult then following an in game GPS to the exact location. I doubt most people would be willing to spend the required time to do it.
How about removing quest markers,improve quest descriptions so one has enough clues in them to find the npc and make the npcs to go around the town,doing their own stuff so wiki is less helpful,people having to rely on their own skills or ask other players for help ? Yes,probably a bad idea in today mmo community but in a good community it could be fun.
On of my major issues with Elder Scrolls Online are the QUEST MARKERS. This is actually why I was not sure about this game after I played the 1st closed beta and the game was 50:50 for me. With the quest markings on the map I did fell like playing "TESO quests on RAILS".
The quest markings were my major complain after playing the game the first time, it did feel people are doing quests like on a "production line".
And this trend of quests marks and compass markings or even more simple quest helpers is bad in my opinion. It takes a away a lot of the immersion and it leads like I said already to "production line questing".
In World of Warcraft there was a time when you did not have quest marks on your map and this was actually great. The community did socialize more, was active in the chat with helping others. There were websites dedicated to quest content i.e. Thottbot.
I think that quest helper in form of compass markings are enough to find the quests, but to give more the chance to explore the world with a lot more excitement without the feel ticking quest after quest. Swtor was the worse so far, people were running around with an open transparent map....ticking quest after quest...it was terrible and was rather a "running simulator".
I would think that as it stands now a lot of players are spamming chat asking about quest locations and what to do next. That would only increase if this were to be implemented. Unless you're a role-player, gone are the days of taking hours or even weeks to figure out the next step in a quest.
I also understand that people like to speculate on reinventing or improving the wheel, even before the wheel has been officially launched and is still in testing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I've played games with no quest markers, and as much as I like the idea, it gets really ugly when you can spend hours trying to find an npc, especially in a big city. I like the idea that you are given more traditional point of reference directions maybe to find the objective of a quest, but especially trying to find npc's that you have to talk to is just horrid without quest markers.
Not all who wander are lost...
I wonder why this did work quiete well in World of Warcraft. The game had no quest markings at all.
100% Absolutely should be removed!!!! It takes away from the feeling of talking to random people and reciving a quest from them, which is part of ADVENTURING that so many ES games have.
ONLY THE MAIN STORY LINE SHOULD HAVE THESE MARKERS, OPTION QUESTS SHOULD NEVER HAVE THEM.
I'm Always Right in the End and this should have been a no brainer for the dev team. It will happen because of outrage of fans.
It doesn't have to be a horrid experience.
For instance, the quest could tell you that the required NPC always hangs-out in the Fish Market, or on Elm Street. If the NPC's are programmed to answer questions regarding directions and locations, that's another aid to finding quest targets. There are many interesting ways to provide quest info other than glowing arrows, etc.
Unfortunately, the effort involved in designing and implementing all those features would be largely wasted on the average player, who seems primarily interested in getting to level-cap as fast as possible, without "wasting time" along the way...
I think times have changed. I hear Zygor Guides which specializes in WOW detailed quest markers as an add-on is doing a lot of business these days and has been for awhile now.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If a game has too easy quest helpers it leads to a "running simulator" and unfortunately ESO feels sometimes like "ESO Questing on Rails" due to the quest markings on map. It would be enough to have quest markings on your compass already.
Because questing is so easy with quest markings and compass, everyone is only running around to the next direction of the quest symbol and of course you are not the only one on these "Highways", it leads not only to "Questing on Rails" it leads also to less socializing and therefore to a more "Single Player Expirience".
Times have changed in WoW and I never played the new World of Warcraft, but I did hear it changed to the worse and maybe the questing markings is one point of it that a game gets too easy. The exitement was also exploring the world during the time you were looking for the quest objectives.
For me personally too easy questing helper are a game breaker and takes away immersion and excitement. It gets boring quickly.
Just stick in a switch. Trailm, no trail, spammy arrow above the head or not. We all dont have to see it. Theyre gonna have a tonne of people coming in whov'e never played mmos. Some will need help, other's won't. Why not make it so everyone wins.
Those people who dont read the quest, guess what, they wont "win". But how long will it be before Alakazam or some such other site/ guild site starts posting footy print directions so people can mail it in? I still have my 500+ page journal from EQ1 with just about everything in it. Maps + directions, some of them scotch taped together fold outs; spells lists, crafting lists, mob loot drops... all downloaded or emailed from guildies to and fro.Those days are gone unless you "just want to play that way". I am already combing the net for any info on harvesting nodes for crafting. And I bet Im not the only one.
I do hope however that they allow for map annotation. We are explorers many of us, and It would be nice to be able to write in "plunk down fishing bobber here" on my map. I mean, I can do it old school, screenshot, edit and print or save to an editable file...it would just be nice to have it in game.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
If the little lemmings want to follow the quests and not explore, then bitch because the game is on rails then let them. They will rush to the end and then cry like little toddlers, stomp their feet and then leave. The community will be better off without them. They can go back to whatever game brings them joy.
I guess you will see more people post on forums after release/beta about questing and calling it a "running simulator" or something like "Tunnel Vision Questing", especially if those skip the quest lines. But the reason lies rather in too easy quest helpers instead of the will to explore.
How is it that I am constantly reading about how people want hardcore games, yet there are currently more people voting to leave the hand-holding quest system in place???
Yes. Please do remove quest markers. How hard is it for a person to take the time to read "go down to the beach and gather three of these items" and find the beach with items on it...I mean seriously???
Of course it is. Elikal is just being silly because a few minor things in the game, some of which will be added in the UI by modders or polished by launch, aren't present right now.
Elikal, if you watch this video on 1080P around the 18:10 mark (for about 60 seconds), you don't think that looks scenic? I think you just need the opportunity to see more of the later levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHRfCCAjFfM&html5=1#t=21m29s
There Is Always Hope!