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Quest Markers Should be Removed?
Xileo
Member Posts: 24
I believe that Quest markers should be removed on Elder Scrolls Online.
Reasons:
1. Promotes Exploration - Because of these Quest markers, most players (who come from a vast experience in mmorpg) tends to just focus on these linear quest line, rush through it and miss out on what's around them. ESO and how it is now has a pretty rough beginning game, quest lines are spread far apart and it makes players feel uncomfortable having to run extreme distances just to do a quest. However, this type of system promotes exploration as travelling over far distances may have you discover NPC's giving a quest or other environmental interactions.
2. Immersion - If Quest markers have been removed, players would have to interact with the NPC's, read what they say, and if they are asking for you to do something, odds are that is how a quest is given. This type of system will make players in ESO become more immersed with the game and it's characters.
Comments
It is especially retarded with puzzle quests when you're supposed to "look for" something but the arrow is pointing right at it. Being able to turn them off would be great.
While I agree with the spirit of this, I have to disagree with a few stipulations.
No quest markers only work in Metroidvania games. While I absolutely love Metroidvania, and feel like MMO's really need to start being more like those, this game is just too far in development to start thinking about that now.
That being said, Quest Markers are just going to have to stay. If you remove Quest Markers, a bunch of crap will have to be put in its place that, frankly, isn't going to happen. However, area markers could be a much better alternative than having specific go-to locales. But even then... even that might be superfluous.
"They have become standard at this point."
Definitely, mmorpgs have always been like this. But because it have always been like this, an idea that is relatively different will take risks, however it may also end up being good because of it's different approach when presenting a quest. It's really hard to say because it's a risk that most companies rather trend the path of what other mmorpg's have done and that is how "clones" are created.
@ ;iridescence and notimeforbs,
Good point, it might be too difficult for Zenimax to just remove the Quest mark and make NPC's talk more in-depth about the task and what you need to do. In an RPG stand point I think such a system would be really cool.
Basically the idea is already there in ESO, you can watch this Shoddycast review at 18minutes and pretty much he talked to a random NPC and the NPC talked about a dungeon and it's location. Because of this, exploration have felt more immersive and you feel like your apart of this virtual world
Even with Force and his review, he talks about exploring and talking to NPC's and actually going out in the world to find objectives to do.
So the concept of total removal of Quest Markers does sound ideal as I watch these reviews (and other press reviews)
Horrible idea. MORE aimless wandering around, doing nothing.
ESO already has the subtitles "aimless wandering doing nothing - animator". Because that's what you do. Walk 10 minutes, kill one dude, walk 5 minutes, kill 3 dudes. And you want MORE of just walking around?? Seriously? o.0
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think best is to make it optional so if you were lost or frustrated you could turn quest marker on but if you wanted to actually try to find something yourself you could turn it off.
As much as I agree with the spirit of it, unfortunately I think it alienate a percentage of MMOers who may not like that. For those that understand that this game is about exploration, we know to look for the little things that may not have a quest marker. That is why I got excited to see in one of the videos today that someone randomly talked to an NPC in a tavern which gave him a marker on the map for a dungeons with tons of loot. Knowing those little things are in game are exciting to me and it's a shame that a percentage of MMOers won't get my loot lol.
hopefully in the loading screen some tips will appear like "exploring leads to adventures that don't have quest markers" lol. It's sad people will miss out on some of that stuff.
There Is Always Hope!
Actually, Oblivion was the first TES game to have quest markers. That game was full of awful ideas.
No.
If you want a game without quest markers play, "The Secret World".
"What tastes like purple?"
Most gamers want to be lead. They fear not being lead. Imagine the horror finding things on your own and the inner reward for it... unbearable. /irony
This is not against any NDA, but I can guarantee you that in one of the three starting areas the chat will be full of questions regarding one particular quest. And yes, this quest has no quest marker on purpose.
Make them a GUI option.
That way, people like Elikal and nariusseldon can "get the game over with" quickly and efficiently (minimal "waste of time") so that they can move on to the next one. Or spend some quality time on the forums criticizing the lack of content in the game they just rushed through...
Those of us who like to immerse ourselves in game worlds can then turn off the markers and enjoy the mystery and satisfaction of solving the puzzles ourselves.
Admittedly, some of the quests could be a real challenge to complete without markers, because MMO's simply aren't designed to work without them anymore. Quest descriptions and NPC dialog has been scaled back significantly since the early days of RPG's, because the majority of players ignore them anyway.
^ at least provide the option, yes.
I went ahead and fixed that.
Someone who launched a thread complaining dungeons aren't big enough, aren't long enough, and aren't immersive enough.
Is complaining about exploring?
I hate FPS games, always have and always will. I accept other people like these games. FPS games aren't bad, soley because I don't like them. Some are really good. Bioshock Infinite. I didn't like the game. It's a great game, I fully admit to it. I get why people love it. But I personally didn't like it, not even slightly. However, as I said, think it's great.
If I was you, I would have just said, "Run around shoot people! Stop and Pick things up. That's all you do. It sucks!"
That's pretty much what you are doing here.
Also Oblivion and Skyrim, were the games that added fast travel and quest markers. So your aimless wandering doing nothing -animator point is meaningless. ESO has it as well. Morrowind was the game, that didn't have those things. It's closer to what your point is. The animations back then looked like your character ate at the taco truck and shit their pants while running around. But it also happens to be people's favorite game in the series, for the same exact things you are complaining about.
It's just your preference dude.
"What tastes like purple?"
I agree with you in theory. It can turn the game into a strange experience of pointing towards the marker so you can point towards the next marker... If you let it. For me, it's less of that and more of a reference tool. It's not hard to assume my character would have a compass, a map, and an outstanding sense of direction given that everybody and their brother can shoot fire out of their hands in the Elder Scrolls world. But it is immersion breaking when the marker floats on the exact item you need to click to continue.
somewhere in my mind this is bringing up visions of a "feature" where one might be able to click a button and the game auto-runs you to the destination. I mean, we know the mobs aren't going to kill you and it's not ever a particularly difficult mental challenge to navigate the terrain towards the marker, so why even have players use the WASD keys to do it? That way we can get our click on... Or keep calm and click on... Or whatever.
maybe that's what some people want. And if the want to pay for it, then more power to them, I guess. I will continue to get lost even though I have a foolproof method against doing so!
_____________________________
"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
I think it's a good idea, let me tell you why..
1) It would create immersion, especially in Elder Scrolls game this is important.
2) Thay already have cut the UI to minimum to create a believable atmosphere and deepen the immersion. Removing quest markers would support this.
3) It would encourage people to explore and find stuff by themselves.
4) It would add replay value. After the first character your probably don't remember which npc's gave quests, so you'll have better chances to find some you missed in the first time.
There's at least one negative issue if the markers are removed.. There's a chance players would get lost and that would frustrate them. At least there should be some 'hint button' that would tell you where the adventure continues if you get stuck.
What do you expect exactly?
You want a rifle and an army of Russians or Chinese to fight against?
Again its all logical and Id prefer this to some degree (if there were nameplates), but I just think this would be a major turnoff to way too many people who like you said would become frustrated and leave. People would be writing reviews about wandering around forever trying to find someone. I think they just need to market in loading screens, tips, or whatever to teach people that not all adventures and destinations are found by quest markers. They give tips in loading screens of the single player games. Also, people will chat about these things in games in chat boxes, in the guild etc. Hopefully that will help as well.
There Is Always Hope!
Nothing is forcing anybody to follow the linear quest line. If someone rushes through an area without checking out their surroundings then that's on them. I was able to discover npc's giving quests and other stuff because I wandered off on my own initiative, even with the presence of these quest markers you're saying should stifle such behavior.
Removing quest markers is not a bad suggestion but you gave no idea of a system they would have to use then. Skyrim style? Reading books, hints and talk to people? Small spoiler they still did that ingame. Read and talk ALL THE THINGS!
Im guessing they thought for an mmo it would be a to ballsiest move and did not want to risk it. They could have to be honest which would have made it even more authentic.
No!
The DIFFERENCE is: in an ES single player game there IS nothing aimless about wandering: you always find stuff to do. You stumble over a cave or whatever and explore stuff to do. ES ONLINE is by nature as all MMORPGs a GOAL oriented game. There is simply little to nothing to achive in the ONLINE variant of ES as compared to the single player games.
Not to speak that walking in Skyrim is scenic, and ESO... is not so much.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That is what we are here discussing: Giving the feature to turn it off, as a minimum requirement to be implemented in the game.
Everything has it's point. So does this thread.