Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
MO has one of the best combat{Video inside}
Realbigdeal
Member UncommonPosts: 1,666
So i dont know what you guys are talking about.
Hey, it's also possible to win unfair fights and for this alone, it's great in my book. The player in this video is solo against an army.
Those who think mo's combat is bad are only comparing it to none mmorpg games like chivalry, mount and blade, wotr... of course those games have better combat. Ask those devs to make an mmo and their game won't look nearly as good combat wise.
You can't possibly name me one mmorpg that has a better combat than MO right now. It was probably bad before, but today, it's different and a lot better. You will probably say DF and il agree with you, but i won't even play DF UW for free coz it lacks in the sandbox department, it has no content other than combat and and it's nothing like the old DFO which was a game sent by god.
I won't judge you if you name me one target based mmorpg, but i can tell you why it's not better based on my past experience with those games.
The real problem of MO lies in the balance and mages. I hate the fact that mages don't need to aim their shots like everyone else. As for the balance, we mostly see heavy armored players going in. I rarely see a light armored player in melee and i never once seen a foot archers. I only see 3 templates: Heavy melee(1h pike, 2h spear, 2h sword/axe/mace) Mounted archers hybrids(magic + melee) and naked or nearly naked mages(I never seen a mage in robe)
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Comments
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Lmao, how bad are those guys, failing to attack one single guy and letting him pick them off few by few. That combat looks awkward and unsmooth, probably part of the reason why a group fails to hit one single guy.
Also really, there's nothing to do in DF other than PvP? How's that different from MO, where all you have is PvP and grind crafting to fuel said PvP.
The video more or less sums up the drawback of full loot PvP, these guys were so scared stiff of losing their gear they hung back and hung back waiting for an overwhelming advantage, and the guy just picked them off.
Anyway, combat in all MMO's sucks. Period. There is not one that does it well. If you are looking for fun and engaging combat, don't play MMOs.
You can build a house and a stronghold, they have a meaningful territory control, boss roam around the world, their crafting system is the best and anyone will tell you that. It's immersive so you won't have to wait for everything to respawn instantly in one go meaning that some creature roam far enough; they never just stick around an invisible border they cannot cross. The pve is actually fun, challenging and there's a reason to hunt creature and to explore. They have the best mount system since you just dont spawn one out of your A. The best kos and guard system.
I tried DF UW and there's really nothing to do other than pvp. It's useless to hunt creature if not to build prowess. Even conquest dont exist since it's useless to own more than 1 city plus the guard towers are way too powerful to be contested in daily basis. Their safe zone and the fact that there's no kos is the reason this game is at his worse compared to what the old darkfall was. It's not a sandbox anymore; they have a the most restricted class system ever since you can only wear the armor of your class(meaning that warrios can only wear heavy armor). The balance is way off too plus you cannot reset your stats or something to re-adapt. Their market system is now global(Auction house anyone) And a lot more, but il stop here.
First of all, never winter nights online doesnt have open world pvp so you did not have to mention it. I count it more like a moba game
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
No offense, but you sound like a die-hard fan who's stopped fingers in his ears and is yelling "LA LA LA CANT HEAR YOU". MO's crafting is overly complex without necessary for it, leaving only a handful of actually usable recipes, with the rest being.. wasted.
.. Are you serious? First you say you won't judge for picking a target based MMO, and then you rant about how it's much easier to develop it. Not to mention that Neverwinter's combat isn't even strictly target based.
Your question should be changed to "Please name a better first person view, non target, combat system that is from an indie developer". Yeah, total freedom of choice there. He named a combat system that he is considering better - your problem that it doesn't fit your worldview, for some players smooth animations are equally important as the mechanics to enjoy the game.
As I said in the beginning, you are not interested in actually starting a discussion, only to push your views and propaganda. It's easy to win outnumbered even in WoW, known for it's amount of CC and slows, as long as you know what you're doing.
I decided to change my post about never winter nights when i learned that it has no open world pvp. Only thing it has is 5v5. It's like smite or league of legends.
Im not interested in none open world pvp mmos thats for sure.
In wow, you win outnumbered with autohotkey, level and gear advantage. You dont need to be the best player to use autohotkey and thats the thing here, so many abilities to use, but only a few out of the millions use auto hotkey so it is easy to pick those who dont and win.
've watched some stream videos and wow was my first mmorpg. I played AOC the longest and i consider warhammer better than never winter nights, but war got shutdown. So no, im not close minded and i knew someone was gonna say that.
Edit: They say never winter is a full instanced game. How can you not compare this to vindictus, but instead, you want to compare it to a sandbox or an other mmorpg. I think you are the one here who is looking for views, responses and attention.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I think what he simply means is that in games like Neverwinter etc, you won't be able to survive and kill off peeps like the guy did in the MO vid. And that makes the combat in Neverwinter combat and other MMOs that have TAB-target etc not as challenging and fun like the combat in MO.
I personally like combat in MO and DFUW the most. Those two games stand out to me in PVP. In DFUW you can also win outnumbered. Theres more skill to the combat in those two games compared to Neverwinter etc.
You asked to "name one mmorpg that has a better combat than MO right now", that's it. And NOW you are bringing it a lot of conditions to exclude answers like open world, non target, indie etc? Stick to your words, Neverwinter is a MMORPG and it has subjectively better combat according to the other poster, get over it.
It is also ridiculous that you start mentioning level and gear differences in WoW. Well, duh? You pile up a noob in rags and no trained skills vs a fully skilled and geared player in MO and the result will be the same. I was talking about players in relatively equal gear and level, where you can easily outplay 2-3 opponents at a time, like that guy in the video did. To claim that only in MO you can outplay 2-3 guys is acting ignorant.
I do agree that usually such games as MO and DF allow for more player skills, but even in themeparks like WoW such situations arise constantly. When I was playing it I often faced several enemies at once, it was great fun fighting and I did win often enough despite number differences (same level and relatively equal gear).
Some people simply suck, which seems to be the case in the video. The guy at most faced 2-3 opponents at once which barely dared to attack him, it was like watching scared children pushing each other to go tease the dog. Not really best example of survival. If they got their act together and attacked him he wouldn't stand a chance, instead they stand and wait while he picks them off one by one.
Remember, the official MO Forum Moderator was bragging about how MO was the first MMO to ship a beta on disc. that actually happened. Not all, but many of these folks just haven't been exposed to a lot of other concepts and ideas.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Im not quoting him, but yeah, still talking about never winter night.
Never winter night. Full of instances. It just doesnt equal up to the definition of the word massive since it is limited everywhere you go. Only place it is massive is in a lobby, a place where nothing happens, a place where players buy their armor, craft their wears and chat all day. When it comes down to the gameplay, it's not mmo anymore since youre only stuck in instances with less than 10 players at all time so it only leaves either pvp or rpg. Never winter night is never mmo + pvp + rpg at the same time so it's not an mmorpg in my book.
For example, it's not because god of war which is an action adventure game decides to add a mini game of tetris in it that it would turn god of war into an action adventure puzzle game(You know it wouldnt make sense)
If never winter nights is an mmorpg, then second life must be one too when it's not since it does not have the rpg in it.. Dayz and rust are not mmorpg's since again, they have nothing rpg in ithem. They are indeed massive and multiplayer online, but they're just open world sandbox where you can do anything you want when ever.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
No way that you as a lvl 50 could take on 7-8 other lvl 50s and win in WoW with equal gear. The TAB-target alone would wreck you in such a situation. Maybe if 4-5 of them were AFK or something. Cause you could take on 2-3 at the same lvl, but nothing like Smasher did in this vid in MO. Smasher on the other hand IS one of the best PVPers ingame. He is a monster. Just like Adun was a monster in DFUW where he also could take on players wastly outnumbered. MO and DFUW are way superior themepark crap TAB-target games when it comes to PVP. Sure it takes SOME skill in those games as well, but the none TAB-target alone in MO and DFUW puts those two games PVP on another lvl.
He isn't rally taking on 7-8 in the video tho, but max 2-3 at the same time. MO has almost no cooldowns so you can reset to almost default state between the 1v2 fights and start over once new guys come. I'm not saying Smasher is a bad player, but his opponents look pathetic. Half of the video is him hitting someone doing nothing, running away, or spinning around
The game has stamina. And you need to watch that closely. If you run outa stam, you die. So that weighs in as well. Smasher knows his shit, and those guys standing has prolly run outa stam, and can barely move, and makes them a easy target. But all this Smasher has complete control over, while the others, well, clearly lacks it. And the others are doing the right thing not attacking all at once. Cause if they would swarm him, they would hit each other just as much. So even though they do the right thing, they aren't skilled enough to take him down. So still, I think, the PVP in MO and DFUW requires far more skill compared to for example Neverwinter.
Yeah, I know. I was comparing it to more cooldown based games like WoW, where if you fail to manage your CDs and blow them all during a fight or too early, you're screwed on the next opponent. While in MO, a minute later you seem to be ready again given you manage your stamina decently enough, since it replenish relatively fast. So the guy had plenty of time to rest while that group were running around him.
So you actually think theres more skill to WoW PVP compared MO/DFUW PVP? Not only do I think WoW etc PVP are easy mode compared to MO/DFUW, but it's also quite boring. So if you think WoW PVP requires more skill, and that you could win in a similar situation in WoW with skill, well, then we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaays apart, and we will have to agree to disagree.
I suspect this post is a troll, but I'll bite anyway.
1. The guys he fought, fought one at a time almost the entire time. So all he did is win a long string of 1v1's then pot/bandage to full between each iteration. His poor opponents didn't even know how to pot/bandage. They are from RP guilds that don't really teach their players PVP - that's on them but that's the truth. I played a foot archer back in the day, and you would have run before getting to the top of the hill. These players were bad.
2. DF combat is better than MO combat by a mile. First you have the engine: In darkfall the players are actually where you see them. In MO there is massive 'prediction' so you can fake move one direction and your character will spring forward, meanwhile you are actually going a different direction. If you know how to abuse this, you can easily get around blocks (as was the guy in the video - notice his enemy was almost always blocking the wrong direction?). Magic in DF blows away MO magic (though DF1 was better than UW). I actually love archery in MO and think its better than DF... the current player base must be clueless because foot archer support is crucial in any serious fight. Although MO will never again have battles on the scale of what it once was. DF1 combat was WAY better than Mortal. DFUW is still better but the class system was a terrible call.
3. DF doesn't have sandbox stuff. Mortal is better at this, but the sandbox stuff in Mortal is still very shallow. Housing is OK and you get some utility. There is no point to territory control, you don't get anything out of it other than the opportunity for more fights. Crafting is better than average in MO, and this is the direction that other games should go in, but its FOTM in Mortal since day 1. The single dev doesn't grasp how to balance his numbers. Have you even been in a dungeon in Mortal? Post that vid so we can all laugh.
4. The mortal world looks like shit. Meshes don't match up. The autogenerated rocks form at unnatural angles. There are holes in the mesh where you fall through the world. You can still abuse a bug to turn lighting on in caves and dungeons. You can still abuse a bug to remove water effects while fighting in water. (Both reported by me in beta, among others) There are still dupes in the game that involve packet manipulation. The entire alchemy system was reverse engineered by a few people using memory hacks. I could go on and on...
Nah, I didn't say WoW requires more skill, only that similar 1vsMany win is also possible in such games, not only in MO. I've also said that in MO it is easier to "reset" between the fights than in WoW.
Although not that we do talk about skill, I'd be almost inclined to say WoW combat is more challenging, given both you and your opponent are at same gear and level. The timing of the abilities and knowledge what counter to use where, how to disempower your opponent, kite, etc, seems to outweight the hitting/blocking/stamina management of MO, although there you have manual aiming skill weight in.
That being said, I've always found free aim combat more engaging, but at the same time.. boring? I appreciate having a wide array of abilities where MO restricts you to the basic stuff like where to hit and the strength of the hit. It is surely realistic, but maybe not most challenging for me due to the lack of options. Target based combat seems to give you more precision and control, while free aim is more open but at same time boring.
There is a lot of room for innovation for free aim however, and you can see that trend coming up more and more even in AAA themeparks that start experimenting with free aim abilities more and more, since we start having PC and network power that allows for it on larger scale.
The guy shown in this video is one of the very best PvPers on the server. I am not surprised to see him mow down multiple enemies single-handed. The fact that you can do that in this game (if you're good enough) is why I like it so much. Unfortunately I'm not on the level of Pronoun or Smasher and I doubt I ever will be.
There is such a gigantic range in skill in MO. It is not at all comparable to WOW or really any themepark MMO because the combat in this game is not about skill cycling or cooldown management. It's about your twitch skill and your ability to anticipate your enemy's moves. And because you stand to lose a lot every time you fight, it actually causes the adrenaline to flow and your heart to beat fast in your chest. The combat in this game actually makes you FEEL. That's the biggest thing for me... No video can really do it justice, but I suspect any other MO player knows what I mean. PVP in virtually any other game does nothing for me now.
Objectively, exactly same can be said for most themepark games. You have exactly same twitch skill reaction to enemies moves and trying to counter their say "fear" with your spell protection, it is not different. As for anticipating moves? There too, it's the same. In themeparks you always try to anticipate what cooldowns the enemy will use when based on your actions.
I'm not saying MO has better/worse combat, only that similar principles apply to themeparks, even if in different form.
That is true, but you really don't have to aim at all in most of those games. You just have to be looking somewhat in the general direction of your enemy and pressing your skill buttons in the correct order. Sure, you still have to use the correct skills at the correct time, but it just seems less skill-based to me. It's obviously totally subjective, but I personally have never found that to be anywhere near as entertaining as actually having to swing a sword at exactly the right angle and speed to hit my target while they're trying to block or parry my attacks.
Beyond that, the fact that these themepark games have virtually no risks at all when you die just makes them feel meaningless to me. I literally don't care at all about dying, so there is no adrenaline flowing, no emotional investment in my character... nothing. No point in even playing...
I'd agree that aiming is more fun, but as I wrote somewhere previously I find it somewhat more limiting at the moment as well as less engaging because how few abilities/choices you have.
As for the dying.. You are partly right, the loss is almost non existent in themeparks, although one could argue that all you really face in MO are few extra hours of farming - just a time sink. However for me the adrenaline rush came not from the material loss, but from the fact of losing in such games. I were pissed that some guy managed killing me, often resulting in us trying to screw each other over for hours, simply because of the principle, and me grinding my teeth when I got killed. Not because of the loss, but because of the humiliation of the losing.
I can honestly say that I've never been as pissed off in any other game (including DF and MO) as I've been in WoW, including the adrenaline rush when I am about to finally attack that guy who killed me few times prior to it. Then again, maybe it depends on the fact that I am more hot blooded than your average gamer.
^
Well it's a 3 year old game made by a small indie development team. If you come here expecting an MMO with AAA graphics, you're kind of looking in the wrong place. Fortunately there are many shitty games out there that are quite pleasing graphically if that's your thing.
Well imagine if that same enemy could keep all your stuff when you die, and next he sees you he can say, "oh thx for the gear"... and you see him using all your old stuff lol wouldnt that boil your blood more than in a themepark???
And you cant say that timing some cooldowns can be more skill based than freaking aiming your shots, perfect blocking on the perfect moment (rewarded with a counter attack that does double the dmg, which you have to aim as well), stamina management, using of the terrain, etc.... and lets not even start on group play, well proper war tactics like in Mount & Blade can help you beat double your numbers (the so called "zergs")
I cant speak for DF but MO magic system is pretty basic compared to WoW (no utlity mage spells, roots, stuns, etc.) because its just a placeholder theyre supposed to expand after the next patch (which is territory control), altho you still sorta have to aim because your spell fizzles if you dont, and you have a DoT spell, corrupt, that cancels any healing on your enemy (of course this has a counter, "purify").. and MOs melee is damn awesome, you cant compare that to any MMORPG out there atm, only to fps like age of chivalry....