It will do better then SWTOR. Skyrim sold nearly 20 million copies worldwide. You get a free month so people will buy this.. The only question is will be it be 3 million , 5 million 10 million - I have no idea. It depends how good the game is.
"Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
Please. No one says reducing the COST of your products is reducing the companies COSTS. Its reducing/changing their revenue. Nice try to cover your own foolishness. You are not tricking anyone. Just own up to your mistake..
F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models.
"Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
Please. No one says reducing the COST of your products is reducing the companies COSTS. Its reducing/changing their revenue. Nice try to cover your own foolishness. You are not tricking anyone. Just own up to your mistake..
F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models.
I agree in a way. Putting the Imperial race in a cash shop is immersion killing. At least to me.
"Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
Please. No one says reducing the COST of your products is reducing the companies COSTS. Its reducing/changing their revenue. Nice try to cover your own foolishness. You are not tricking anyone. Just own up to your mistake..
F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models.
Ok. . well you honestly lost me now. You very obviously entirely misunderstood me or something. I am moving on. You are a waste of my time and I will just get banned if I continue. -.-
Just keep in mind i wasn't talking about costs as in the amount it costs them. I was talking about the cost of the product. You can say I am trying to cover my own foolishness, but im not, and just because you say it... doesn't make it true.
"F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models."
Specifically this part. What are you even talking about O.o? Winner for ESO? What? As I said .. you lost me. I am against what Zenimax is doing, So why would I think it is a winner for ESO?
Edit: You should probably go back and reread everything I have said thus far, because as of now, we are on entirely separate pages. In which case, I believe you are the one being foolish here.
"Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
Please. No one says reducing the COST of your products is reducing the companies COSTS. Its reducing/changing their revenue. Nice try to cover your own foolishness. You are not tricking anyone. Just own up to your mistake..
F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models.
I agree in a way. Putting the Imperial race in a cash shop is immersion killing. At least to me.
Imperial race honestly should have come standard. It's dumb that they decided to put it behind a pay gate. I entirely agree with you, it's immersion killing.
Though I prefer F2P games because at least then you expect that crap .. and it's free upfront. What Zenimax is doing, is double dipping.
We would already be paying $60 + $15 per month. Why the hell should we need to pay even more for something that the initial price and monthly fee should cover.
AO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.
So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
AO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.
So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
Which is exactly the problem. If you are paying $60 for a game, then on top you have to pay $15 per month, that is too expensive to me. However, that is hardly the issue. I knew long ago ESO was having the sub model. What ticks me off is now they put a race that is meant to be part the Elder Scrolls series behind a pay gate. So they want even MORE money.
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best.
AO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.
So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
I was thinking this, too, especially since my brain calculates the pricing as, "I don't want it if I can't have the whole experience, therefore game price = $80 or I wait to buy until the price comes down."
But some people are mad about no faction race lock. They'd probably be even angrier if the game released flat out lock-free. Maybe they were trying to make everyone happy and scoop some frugal people in with the $60. Seems to me they've managed to irritate a lot of people instead. Proof is in the pudding. Will the game be good enough to lure in more than the 'gotta-have-the-new-shiny-right-now' crowd and keep players around awhile?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 Originally posted by DeddmeatAO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
Which is exactly the problem. If you are paying $60 for a game, then on top you have to pay $15 per month, that is too expensive to me. However, that is hardly the issue. I knew long ago ESO was having the sub model. What ticks me off is now they put a race that is meant to be part the Elder Scrolls series behind a pay gate. So they want even MORE money.
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best.
The 'paygate' that people mention is in multiple games already .. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it's still a 'paygate' if you want to play them. So I can see where they got the idea from and surprised how no-one seems to have noticed the amount we have already
AO to play Keeper or Shade you have to sub DDO certain races, classes via sub or store or expansion SWTOR as above CO as above
Just about every F2P mmo will have a 'paygate' restricting class and or race unless you sub or use their store. The only difference here being there's no F2P side, I'm guessing they decided that didn't matter and went the TSW route .. That started with decent benefits if you got the grandmasters pack, the best thing they thought they could give being the Race etc. that's all guessing tho
Well of course it would sell well,nobody wants to feel left out on ANY game content,that is why it was a VERY lame gimmick by the developer to get more money.I would never support a dev like that,reminds me of SOE and cannot be trusted into the future either.
So what happens after all those that forked over an unheard of amount on entry fee ,get in game and find out there is more desirable cash shop,spend more and keep spending?
You enter a game with this kind of hidden costs and you enter at own risk and with hands handcuffed,no idea what is around each corner every day.
I learned the very hard way years ago playing a 2d war game.I spent ,then i spent,then i felt i needed to keep spending or lose what i already invested.Then after spending far too much i realized i made a huge mistake even entering that game,i won't make that mistake again.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by DeddmeatAO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
Which is exactly the problem. If you are paying $60 for a game, then on top you have to pay $15 per month, that is too expensive to me. However, that is hardly the issue. I knew long ago ESO was having the sub model. What ticks me off is now they put a race that is meant to be part the Elder Scrolls series behind a pay gate. So they want even MORE money.
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best.
The 'paygate' that people mention is in multiple games already .. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it's still a 'paygate' if you want to play them. So I can see where they got the idea from and surprised how no-one seems to have noticed the amount we have already
AO to play Keeper or Shade you have to sub DDO certain races, classes via sub or store or expansion SWTOR as above CO as above
Just about every F2P mmo will have a 'paygate' restricting class and or race unless you sub or use their store. The only difference here being there's no F2P side, I'm guessing they decided that didn't matter and went the TSW route .. That started with decent benefits if you got the grandmasters pack, the best thing they thought they could give being the Race etc. that's all guessing tho
Hopefully the game will fare better than TSW
That is the issue though. Games that are F2P have a reason to do things like this. A game of which you are paying a box price on top of a sub, should not use such tactics. Also, a main difference is this is elder scrolls. When you use an IP, you expect certain things. Such as imperials to be a playable race for the base price. The have always been part of the series. To put a paygate on something that has always been part of the series is ridiculous.
Expansions are ok to add a new race. It's new content. Not usually standard content.
Last, I honestly couldn't care less about those other games. Not interested in them. In any case, if they do it too, they are just as wrong. It's not like my opinion would change just because a few other games do the same thing XD.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 It will sell well for the first 3 months but after that my prediction is people will come to their senses and realize how it isn't anything special for the long term. Good for 2-3 months and people will want to look elsewhere. At least that is my opinion.
I can see 3-4 months out the box AvA all day type of thing. Hopefully 4. When tired of that log into something else.
There is potential to last longer than that, but we know what devs have made of that word recently...
I'm not really concerned how well it's doing. I purchased the Digital Imperial Edition. I'm sure people like to argue about things, well, just to argue something. If I see something, and I think it's worth it to me, then I buy it.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 Originally posted by DeddmeatOriginally posted by Brabbit1987Originally posted by DeddmeatAO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
Which is exactly the problem. If you are paying $60 for a game, then on top you have to pay $15 per month, that is too expensive to me. However, that is hardly the issue. I knew long ago ESO was having the sub model. What ticks me off is now they put a race that is meant to be part the Elder Scrolls series behind a pay gate. So they want even MORE money.They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best. The 'paygate' that people mention is in multiple games already .. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it's still a 'paygate' if you want to play them. So I can see where they got the idea from and surprised how no-one seems to have noticed the amount we have already AO to play Keeper or Shade you have to sub DDO certain races, classes via sub or store or expansion SWTOR as above CO as above Just about every F2P mmo will have a 'paygate' restricting class and or race unless you sub or use their store. The only difference here being there's no F2P side, I'm guessing they decided that didn't matter and went the TSW route .. That started with decent benefits if you got the grandmasters pack, the best thing they thought they could give being the Race etc. that's all guessing thoHopefully the game will fare better than TSWThat is the issue though. Games that are F2P have a reason to do things like this. A game of which you are paying a box price on top of a sub, should not use such tactics. Also, a main difference is this is elder scrolls. When you use an IP, you expect certain things. Such as imperials to be a playable race for the base price. The have always been part of the series. To put a paygate on something that has always been part of the series is ridiculous.
Expansions are ok to add a new race. It's new content. Not usually standard content.
Last, I honestly couldn't care less about those other games. Not interested in them. In any case, if they do it too, they are just as wrong. It's not like my opinion would change just because a few other games do the same thing XD.
That's it though, people 'expected' .. I expect my landlord to get off their arse and deal with an issue raised last year but still waiting. I'd expect AO to have a sub inline with other mmo's they do but no, it's higher and an older game.
Even with low numbers playing I never expected the complete remake of SWG when I logged on one day or it's shutdown, I'm sure people expected UO to have closed years ago too
You see how 'expecting' things seems to never pan out to a players favour lol
Originally posted by Otakun Anyone who believes that ESO wasn't going to sell well and do well in the first couple months is kidding themselves. The game will sell and bring in subs on name alone. Most people I know plan to play the game even though they have problems with it since there is nothing out right now to distract them from it. Most likely most people will play ESO till Wildstar then there will be sub drops for people interested in that game and the others will just sit on ESO till something else pops up to take their interest away.
You're describing the general behavior of the vast majority of MMO players... that's why I get such a kick out those who don't get it (not referring to you) and think they're being brilliant when they predict a sub drop after 3 months,
+1 to you man.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Otakun Anyone who believes that ESO wasn't going to sell well and do well in the first couple months is kidding themselves. The game will sell and bring in subs on name alone. Most people I know plan to play the game even though they have problems with it since there is nothing out right now to distract them from it. Most likely most people will play ESO till Wildstar then there will be sub drops for people interested in that game and the others will just sit on ESO till something else pops up to take their interest away.
You're describing the general behavior of the vast majority of MMO players... that's why I get such a kick out those who don't get it (not referring to you) and think they're being brilliant when they predict a sub drop after 3 months,
Correction, this has more to do with MMO developers than it does MMO players. Most of the new games try to pull off the WoW style MMO and simply lack the gameplay, content, and community to hold people more than 3 months. Copying what WoW did is no longer enough to hold people for a sustained period of time. There hasn't been an MMO for a long time that has come out with either retention mechanics or more than 3 months worth of casual content. The entire reason that SWTOR failed is because all they had was the main storyline and once you did that there wasn't much else to keep you there. So yes the subs will drop after 3 months, but only because the game itself lacks anything to retain players.
That's it though, people 'expected' .. I expect my landlord to get off their arse and deal with an issue raised last year but still waiting. I'd expect AO to have a sub inline with other mmo's they do but no, it's higher and an older game.
Even with low numbers playing I never expected the complete remake of SWG when I logged on one day or it's shutdown, I'm sure people expected UO to have closed years ago too
You see how 'expecting' things seems to never pan out to a players favour lol
Really don't see how that changes anything I have said.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 It will sell well for the first 3 months but after that my prediction is people will come to their senses and realize how it isn't anything special for the long term. Good for 2-3 months and people will want to look elsewhere. At least that is my opinion.
It will probably go exactly like GW2, sell a few million copies very quickly, then stagnante there.
As far as keeping subs, that depends 100% on how well its endgame is made.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 Originally posted by DeddmeatThat's it though, people 'expected' .. I expect my landlord to get off their arse and deal with an issue raised last year but still waiting. I'd expect AO to have a sub inline with other mmo's they do but no, it's higher and an older game.Even with low numbers playing I never expected the complete remake of SWG when I logged on one day or it's shutdown, I'm sure people expected UO to have closed years ago tooYou see how 'expecting' things seems to never pan out to a players favour lol
Really don't see how that changes anything I have said.
In that the problem being people expected things but should know from past that doing so doesn't mean your going to get what you want.
Some of us expect but also expect to be let down .. so such things aren't so bad, others expect and expect to get what they want, so are rather vocal when such as this happens.
Originally posted by DeddmeatThat's it though, people 'expected' .. I expect my landlord to get off their arse and deal with an issue raised last year but still waiting. I'd expect AO to have a sub inline with other mmo's they do but no, it's higher and an older game.Even with low numbers playing I never expected the complete remake of SWG when I logged on one day or it's shutdown, I'm sure people expected UO to have closed years ago tooYou see how 'expecting' things seems to never pan out to a players favour lol
Really don't see how that changes anything I have said.
In that the problem being people expected things but should know from past that doing so doesn't mean your going to get what you want.
Some of us expect but also expect to be let down .. so such things aren't so bad, others expect and expect to get what they want, so are rather vocal when such as this happens.
Well no .. that isn't true. Even if I was to expect them to do this, I would still complain about it lol. It's simply something I don't agree with. I work in the game industry myself, and I just find bigger developers getting greedy with their so called AAA MMOs. They think they can get away with anything.
The crappy thing is .. they can >.>. Well other then EA.
I never understand why everyone cried about exclusive race in CE. Supply and demand. It's their product, they can charge as expensive as they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not "greedy", it's just business.
Playing video game and buying bread isn't the same. Video game, and a race in a video game isn't life necessity, they can charge $2000 for extra race if players are willing to pay for it.
I entirely agree with you. But, why we cry, is simply because if we do not, it can send a signal that says we do not care. The worst thing you can do in a situation you do not like, is to stay quiet. Even worse is being all talk and no action. The people who complain but still buy it. Ridiculous.
Sad thing is, there are people in this world who simply don't care when prices rise. They don't care if companies take advantage of them. As long as they get their game .. it's all good. Then they like to talk smack at those who disagree. They talk down on them, telling them to get a job or a better job or stop being cheap. As if that has anything to do with it.
Ever meet one of those people who will only buy the most expensive junk? Those who are willing to pay a higher price then the average consumer for something that you can get cheaper? Honestly .. it's just as bad as being cheap. They are just on the other side of the extreme.
I'd care about price rise if it's life necessity. If a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread gets price increase, I would care. Because it IS taking advantage of others. I'd die without food and water, I have to pay, and yet the price increase.
Video game isn't life necessity, it's like art, for entertaining others. The only right price for a video game is how much others are willing to pay for it. It can(and should) be as expensive as they want.
A lot of the paintings are more expensive than my house, but we don't think someone selling Vincent Van Goth's painting for 100 million is being greedy. Vincent Van Gogh's painting worth that much, someone are willing to pay for it, even though I can buy another painting with less money.
TESO imperial edition worth that much in many people's mind, others are willing to pay for it. Extra race worth as much as others are willing to pay.
I never understand why everyone cried about exclusive race in CE. Supply and demand. It's their product, they can charge as expensive as they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not "greedy", it's just business.
Playing video game and buying bread isn't the same. Video game, and a race in a video game isn't life necessity, they can charge $2000 for extra race if players are willing to pay for it.
I entirely agree with you. But, why we cry, is simply because if we do not, it can send a signal that says we do not care. The worst thing you can do in a situation you do not like, is to stay quiet. Even worse is being all talk and no action. The people who complain but still buy it. Ridiculous.
Sad thing is, there are people in this world who simply don't care when prices rise. They don't care if companies take advantage of them. As long as they get their game .. it's all good. Then they like to talk smack at those who disagree. They talk down on them, telling them to get a job or a better job or stop being cheap. As if that has anything to do with it.
Ever meet one of those people who will only buy the most expensive junk? Those who are willing to pay a higher price then the average consumer for something that you can get cheaper? Honestly .. it's just as bad as being cheap. They are just on the other side of the extreme.
I'd care about price rise if it's life necessity. If a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread gets price increase, I would care. Because it IS taking advantage of others. I'd die without food and water, I have to pay, and yet the price increase.
Video game isn't life necessity, it's like art, for entertaining others. The only right price for a video game is how much others are willing to pay for it. It can(and should) be as expensive as they want.
A lot of the paintings are more expensive than my house, but we don't think someone selling Vincent Van Goth's painting for 100 million is being greedy. Vincent Van Gogh's painting worth that much, someone are willing to pay for it, even though I can buy another painting with less money.
TESO imperial edition worth that much in many people's mind, others are willing to pay for it. Extra race worth as much as others are willing to pay.
Paintings sell for that high because they are rare and they have that worth applied to it. They also have resell value. Video games really don't. Buy a printed mass produced copy of a painting and all of a sudden you can get it for $20 -50.
So your example with paintings is pretty poor. XD
In other words, there is a very good reason why those rare art pieces sell high. Video games really have no reason to. Once the initial game is produced it doesn't cost much to make copies of it.
Heck .. you can find some games that sell really high because they are also rare and had a limited amount of copies.
Edit: As for only caring if it's necessities. I don't agree. While obviously necessities would be a bigger concern, that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to enjoy our life with entertainment for a reasonable price.
I never understand why everyone cried about exclusive race in CE. Supply and demand. It's their product, they can charge as expensive as they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not "greedy", it's just business.
Playing video game and buying bread isn't the same. Video game, and a race in a video game isn't life necessity, they can charge $2000 for extra race if players are willing to pay for it.
I entirely agree with you. But, why we cry, is simply because if we do not, it can send a signal that says we do not care. The worst thing you can do in a situation you do not like, is to stay quiet. Even worse is being all talk and no action. The people who complain but still buy it. Ridiculous.
Sad thing is, there are people in this world who simply don't care when prices rise. They don't care if companies take advantage of them. As long as they get their game .. it's all good. Then they like to talk smack at those who disagree. They talk down on them, telling them to get a job or a better job or stop being cheap. As if that has anything to do with it.
Ever meet one of those people who will only buy the most expensive junk? Those who are willing to pay a higher price then the average consumer for something that you can get cheaper? Honestly .. it's just as bad as being cheap. They are just on the other side of the extreme.
I'd care about price rise if it's life necessity. If a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread gets price increase, I would care. Because it IS taking advantage of others. I'd die without food and water, I have to pay, and yet the price increase.
Video game isn't life necessity, it's like art, for entertaining others. The only right price for a video game is how much others are willing to pay for it. It can(and should) be as expensive as they want.
A lot of the paintings are more expensive than my house, but we don't think someone selling Vincent Van Goth's painting for 100 million is being greedy. Vincent Van Gogh's painting worth that much, someone are willing to pay for it, even though I can buy another painting with less money.
TESO imperial edition worth that much in many people's mind, others are willing to pay for it. Extra race worth as much as others are willing to pay.
Paintings sell for that high because they are rare and they have that worth applied to it. They also have resell value. Video games really don't. Buy a printed mass produced copy of a painting and all of a sudden you can get it for $20 -50.
So your example with paintings is pretty poor. XD
In other words, there is a very good reason why those rare art pieces sell high. Video games really have no reason to. Once the initial game is produced it doesn't cost much to make copies of it.
Heck .. you can find some games that sell really high because they are also rare and had a limited amount of copies.
Edit: As for only caring if it's necessities. I don't agree. While obviously necessities would be a bigger concern, that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to enjoy our life with entertainment for a reasonable price.
What about concert or show tickets? Price varies and it can be a few hundred dollars for 3hr of entertainment. If you can't afford expensive ticket you get a bad spot. You can sell as many spot as long as there are extra space. Rarity isn't everything that determine the price, content and IP value too.
You CAN enjoy entertainment for a reasonable price, but not EVERY entertainment for a reasonable price. There are other cheaper games and free games. If you can't afford expensive games, you can still play free games and just don't buy expensive games. Supply and demand, if nobody buys expensive games the company would lower the price, and vice versa.
Further more, not every game cost the same. From what I've heard this game is quite expensive to make, thus it's legit to charge that high. I can argue that a game cost over 150 million to make shouldn't charge the same price as a game cost 1 million to make too.
Imperial edition's price isn't "greedy" from business's POV. Higher budget, supply and demand. If you can't afford it, don't buy it, see if they'll lower the price. But you can't do anything about it if others want to pay that much money for it, it's their money and they think the price tag is worth it.
Comments
"Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
Please. No one says reducing the COST of your products is reducing the companies COSTS. Its reducing/changing their revenue. Nice try to cover your own foolishness. You are not tricking anyone. Just own up to your mistake..
F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models.
I agree in a way. Putting the Imperial race in a cash shop is immersion killing. At least to me.
Ok. . well you honestly lost me now. You very obviously entirely misunderstood me or something. I am moving on. You are a waste of my time and I will just get banned if I continue. -.-
Just keep in mind i wasn't talking about costs as in the amount it costs them. I was talking about the cost of the product. You can say I am trying to cover my own foolishness, but im not, and just because you say it... doesn't make it true.
"F2P are annoying anyway. A bunch of immersion killing pay to play mechanics get thrown into the game. Why you think this is a winner for ESO is beyond me. Wait for EQ:N made by SOE. Those guys know failing business models."
Specifically this part. What are you even talking about O.o? Winner for ESO? What? As I said .. you lost me. I am against what Zenimax is doing, So why would I think it is a winner for ESO?
Edit: You should probably go back and reread everything I have said thus far, because as of now, we are on entirely separate pages. In which case, I believe you are the one being foolish here.
Imperial race honestly should have come standard. It's dumb that they decided to put it behind a pay gate. I entirely agree with you, it's immersion killing.
Though I prefer F2P games because at least then you expect that crap .. and it's free upfront. What Zenimax is doing, is double dipping.
We would already be paying $60 + $15 per month. Why the hell should we need to pay even more for something that the initial price and monthly fee should cover.
AO is a mixed F2P / Sub game and the sub for that is higher than AoC, WoW etc but people still pay it, hell I have both an account I sub and a froob account. Not fond of higher sub but when I feel like playing a Keeper in AO I resub, generally on a year offer if I can.
So while higher priced subs aren't great, people still pay em
Which is exactly the problem. If you are paying $60 for a game, then on top you have to pay $15 per month, that is too expensive to me. However, that is hardly the issue. I knew long ago ESO was having the sub model. What ticks me off is now they put a race that is meant to be part the Elder Scrolls series behind a pay gate. So they want even MORE money.
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best.
I was thinking this, too, especially since my brain calculates the pricing as, "I don't want it if I can't have the whole experience, therefore game price = $80 or I wait to buy until the price comes down."
But some people are mad about no faction race lock. They'd probably be even angrier if the game released flat out lock-free. Maybe they were trying to make everyone happy and scoop some frugal people in with the $60. Seems to me they've managed to irritate a lot of people instead. Proof is in the pudding. Will the game be good enough to lure in more than the 'gotta-have-the-new-shiny-right-now' crowd and keep players around awhile?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
They should have just said the box price for the game is $80 instead of $60. At least then they would have been more honest.
Edit: Why people are willing to continue to pay these prices is beyond me. This is why I love steam sales. Valve knows how to do it best.
The 'paygate' that people mention is in multiple games already .. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it's still a 'paygate' if you want to play them. So I can see where they got the idea from and surprised how no-one seems to have noticed the amount we have already
AO to play Keeper or Shade you have to sub
DDO certain races, classes via sub or store or expansion
SWTOR as above
CO as above
Just about every F2P mmo will have a 'paygate' restricting class and or race unless you sub or use their store. The only difference here being there's no F2P side, I'm guessing they decided that didn't matter and went the TSW route .. That started with decent benefits if you got the grandmasters pack, the best thing they thought they could give being the Race etc. that's all guessing tho
Hopefully the game will fare better than TSW
Well of course it would sell well,nobody wants to feel left out on ANY game content,that is why it was a VERY lame gimmick by the developer to get more money.I would never support a dev like that,reminds me of SOE and cannot be trusted into the future either.
So what happens after all those that forked over an unheard of amount on entry fee ,get in game and find out there is more desirable cash shop,spend more and keep spending?
You enter a game with this kind of hidden costs and you enter at own risk and with hands handcuffed,no idea what is around each corner every day.
I learned the very hard way years ago playing a 2d war game.I spent ,then i spent,then i felt i needed to keep spending or lose what i already invested.Then after spending far too much i realized i made a huge mistake even entering that game,i won't make that mistake again.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
That is the issue though. Games that are F2P have a reason to do things like this. A game of which you are paying a box price on top of a sub, should not use such tactics. Also, a main difference is this is elder scrolls. When you use an IP, you expect certain things. Such as imperials to be a playable race for the base price. The have always been part of the series. To put a paygate on something that has always been part of the series is ridiculous.
Expansions are ok to add a new race. It's new content. Not usually standard content.
Last, I honestly couldn't care less about those other games. Not interested in them. In any case, if they do it too, they are just as wrong. It's not like my opinion would change just because a few other games do the same thing XD.
I can see 3-4 months out the box AvA all day type of thing. Hopefully 4. When tired of that log into something else.
There is potential to last longer than that, but we know what devs have made of that word recently...
I've predicted 5 mill easy the first month.
The 'paygate' that people mention is in multiple games already .. Maybe not in exactly the same way but it's still a 'paygate' if you want to play them. So I can see where they got the idea from and surprised how no-one seems to have noticed the amount we have already AO to play Keeper or Shade you have to sub DDO certain races, classes via sub or store or expansion SWTOR as above CO as above Just about every F2P mmo will have a 'paygate' restricting class and or race unless you sub or use their store. The only difference here being there's no F2P side, I'm guessing they decided that didn't matter and went the TSW route .. That started with decent benefits if you got the grandmasters pack, the best thing they thought they could give being the Race etc. that's all guessing tho Hopefully the game will fare better than TSW
That is the issue though. Games that are F2P have a reason to do things like this. A game of which you are paying a box price on top of a sub, should not use such tactics. Also, a main difference is this is elder scrolls. When you use an IP, you expect certain things. Such as imperials to be a playable race for the base price. The have always been part of the series. To put a paygate on something that has always been part of the series is ridiculous.
Expansions are ok to add a new race. It's new content. Not usually standard content.
Last, I honestly couldn't care less about those other games. Not interested in them. In any case, if they do it too, they are just as wrong. It's not like my opinion would change just because a few other games do the same thing XD.
That's it though, people 'expected' .. I expect my landlord to get off their arse and deal with an issue raised last year but still waiting. I'd expect AO to have a sub inline with other mmo's they do but no, it's higher and an older game.
Even with low numbers playing I never expected the complete remake of SWG when I logged on one day or it's shutdown, I'm sure people expected UO to have closed years ago too
You see how 'expecting' things seems to never pan out to a players favour lol
I'll play this game in 6 months when I can get it for $20.
+1 to you man.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Correction, this has more to do with MMO developers than it does MMO players. Most of the new games try to pull off the WoW style MMO and simply lack the gameplay, content, and community to hold people more than 3 months. Copying what WoW did is no longer enough to hold people for a sustained period of time. There hasn't been an MMO for a long time that has come out with either retention mechanics or more than 3 months worth of casual content. The entire reason that SWTOR failed is because all they had was the main storyline and once you did that there wasn't much else to keep you there. So yes the subs will drop after 3 months, but only because the game itself lacks anything to retain players.
Really don't see how that changes anything I have said.
It will probably go exactly like GW2, sell a few million copies very quickly, then stagnante there.
As far as keeping subs, that depends 100% on how well its endgame is made.
In that the problem being people expected things but should know from past that doing so doesn't mean your going to get what you want.
Some of us expect but also expect to be let down .. so such things aren't so bad, others expect and expect to get what they want, so are rather vocal when such as this happens.
Well no .. that isn't true. Even if I was to expect them to do this, I would still complain about it lol. It's simply something I don't agree with. I work in the game industry myself, and I just find bigger developers getting greedy with their so called AAA MMOs. They think they can get away with anything.
The crappy thing is .. they can >.>. Well other then EA.
I'd care about price rise if it's life necessity. If a bottle of water, or a loaf of bread gets price increase, I would care. Because it IS taking advantage of others. I'd die without food and water, I have to pay, and yet the price increase.
Video game isn't life necessity, it's like art, for entertaining others. The only right price for a video game is how much others are willing to pay for it. It can(and should) be as expensive as they want.
A lot of the paintings are more expensive than my house, but we don't think someone selling Vincent Van Goth's painting for 100 million is being greedy. Vincent Van Gogh's painting worth that much, someone are willing to pay for it, even though I can buy another painting with less money.
TESO imperial edition worth that much in many people's mind, others are willing to pay for it. Extra race worth as much as others are willing to pay.
Paintings sell for that high because they are rare and they have that worth applied to it. They also have resell value. Video games really don't. Buy a printed mass produced copy of a painting and all of a sudden you can get it for $20 -50.
So your example with paintings is pretty poor. XD
In other words, there is a very good reason why those rare art pieces sell high. Video games really have no reason to. Once the initial game is produced it doesn't cost much to make copies of it.
Heck .. you can find some games that sell really high because they are also rare and had a limited amount of copies.
Edit: As for only caring if it's necessities. I don't agree. While obviously necessities would be a bigger concern, that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to enjoy our life with entertainment for a reasonable price.
What about concert or show tickets? Price varies and it can be a few hundred dollars for 3hr of entertainment. If you can't afford expensive ticket you get a bad spot. You can sell as many spot as long as there are extra space. Rarity isn't everything that determine the price, content and IP value too.
You CAN enjoy entertainment for a reasonable price, but not EVERY entertainment for a reasonable price. There are other cheaper games and free games. If you can't afford expensive games, you can still play free games and just don't buy expensive games. Supply and demand, if nobody buys expensive games the company would lower the price, and vice versa.
Further more, not every game cost the same. From what I've heard this game is quite expensive to make, thus it's legit to charge that high. I can argue that a game cost over 150 million to make shouldn't charge the same price as a game cost 1 million to make too.
Imperial edition's price isn't "greedy" from business's POV. Higher budget, supply and demand. If you can't afford it, don't buy it, see if they'll lower the price. But you can't do anything about it if others want to pay that much money for it, it's their money and they think the price tag is worth it.