I never understand why everyone cried about exclusive race in CE. Supply and demand. It's their product, they can charge as expensive as they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not "greedy", it's just business.
Playing video game and buying bread isn't the same. Video game, and a race in a video game isn't life necessity, they can charge $2000 for extra race if players are willing to pay for it.
I entirely agree with you. But, why we cry, is simply because if we do not, it can send a signal that says we do not care. The worst thing you can do in a situation you do not like, is to stay quiet. Even worse is being all talk and no action. The people who complain but still buy it. Ridiculous.
Sad thing is, there are people in this world who simply don't care when prices rise. They don't care if companies take advantage of them. As long as they get their game .. it's all good. Then they like to talk smack at those who disagree. They talk down on them, telling them to get a job or a better job or stop being cheap. As if that has anything to do with it.
Ever meet one of those people who will only buy the most expensive junk? Those who are willing to pay a higher price then the average consumer for something that you can get cheaper? Honestly .. it's just as bad as being cheap. They are just on the other side of the extreme.
The sad thing is that people don't realize that factoring in Inflation, this game compared to games like WOW is cheaper to play each month than it was when you bought WOW in 2004. Your $15 in 2004 is just over $18.50 today. People should be happy they are getting a subscription bargain lol.
ROFL, that is a terrible argument. In plus, I wasn't even talking about the sub. Not to mention, that only works if I played WoW, which I have not. On top of that, it only works if I played WoW early on.
Not only that, you could say that about everything. AND ... you have to factor in a persons job. It's not a bargain if the person is making the same amount of money as they where in 2004. Inflation includes tons of factors you are leaving out. It isn't as simple as putting numbers into some online calculator. XD
If you think what I wrote was based on WOW it went over your head. The point was that inflation has gone up and subscriptions have generally stayed the same. Average salaries have absolutely gone up since 2004 along with utilities, gas prices, cereal, shall I go on? Why shouldn't you be factoring in the sub cost for the total cost of ownership of a product? The point is these prices, both the box and the sub are more than reasonable for this game, both editions, especially compared to some other collector editions like SWTOR. You whine about that people don't care that prices rise. What about the cost of the staff, utilities, taxes, rent, and everything else to support the game that def, do rise over time?
Like I said before ESO will outsell the current amount of EU/NA WoW subcribers. Now they will not hold onto to that amount because the game is not designed too.
Developers design their games for a certain amount of gameplay. The games that 'last longer' just have time sinks built into the them. For example WoW limits raids to once a week, makes sure you have a certain gear score to raid, and makes some of the raids difficult. These are just tactics to stretch content.
ESO won't have this stuff by design. If you stretch out content you get modern players very upset. Now you can buy this MMO and finish in a month. So you won't have to pay any SUB. Its a better deal. We now have other games to play.
Like I said before ESO will outsell the current amount of EU/NA WoW subcribers. Now they will not hold onto to that amount because the game is not designed too.
Developers design their games for a certain amount of gameplay. The games that 'last longer' just have time sinks built into the them. For example WoW limits raids to once a week, makes sure you have a certain gear score to raid, and makes some of the raids difficult. These are just tactics to stretch content.
ESO won't have this stuff by design. If you stretch out content you get modern players very upset. Now you can buy this MMO and finish in a month. So you won't have to pay any SUB. Its a better deal. We now have other games to play.
You forgot to factor in the part where they promised new content every 4-6 weeks and they have already been working on future content well after launch for quite some time, so your comment is invalid. Unless you have way too much time on your hands, if you finish the game in a month (hitting space bar on the quests, ignoring lore, ignoring crafting, etc) you probably aren't playing it in the spirit of the way it was meant to be played and probably aren't their target market anyway,
what you expected as a physical product the CE of this game deserves its money, even me, who i dont intend to buy or play that game when i saw it i was excited, also based on the digital offers they are huge the benefits so everyone who will be able will spend that money. It is good for the company, bad for the gaming though cause the digital part of CE is really nasty and overbalanced, but even these is part of an argument.
"You forgot to factor in the part where they promised new content every 4-6 weeks and they have already been working on future content well after launch for quite some time, so your comment is invalid. Unless you have way too much time on your hands, if you finish the game in a month (hitting space bar on the quests, ignoring lore, ignoring crafting, etc) you probably aren't playing it in the spirit of the way it was meant to be played and probably aren't their target market anyway,"
Developer created can only keep up with players if it..
1) is very difficult
2) has awful long grinds.
I don't think they will be making content like that and thus won't be able to keep up with the hardcore players. You watch people will be hitting max level in one week - never mind the month (or three) that I intend to play. This is by design though.
If you make the content exceedingly difficult or have long grinds players don't like it. it just so many man hours to create one hour of themepark style content.
Originally posted by Otakun Anyone who believes that ESO wasn't going to sell well and do well in the first couple months is kidding themselves. The game will sell and bring in subs on name alone. Most people I know plan to play the game even though they have problems with it since there is nothing out right now to distract them from it. Most likely most people will play ESO till Wildstar then there will be sub drops for people interested in that game and the others will just sit on ESO till something else pops up to take their interest away.
And this is what happens to every MMO, this should be a known fact.
You should consider that Australian internet is expensive for 24GB beta downloads, hence the physical editions. I would play the Beta but my monthly allowance is 25GB.
"You forgot to factor in the part where they promised new content every 4-6 weeks and they have already been working on future content well after launch for quite some time, so your comment is invalid. Unless you have way too much time on your hands, if you finish the game in a month (hitting space bar on the quests, ignoring lore, ignoring crafting, etc) you probably aren't playing it in the spirit of the way it was meant to be played and probably aren't their target market anyway,"
Developer created can only keep up with players if it..
1) is very difficult
2) has awful long grinds.
I don't think they will be making content like that and thus won't be able to keep up with the hardcore players. You watch people will be hitting max level in one week - never mind the month (or three) that I intend to play. This is by design though.
If you make the content exceedingly difficult or have long grinds players don't like it. it just so many man hours to create one hour of themepark style content.
If you can do everything in ESO in just a month (one person, not a shared account) then you would be doing damage to yourself due to lack of sleep. Not only is there the three faction campaigns 1-50, 50+, and 50++, but then all of cyrodiil (with its numerous dungeons, quests, pvp, etc...), collecting all the skyshards, Hidden quests, adventure zones, dark anchors, dungeons (public and private), crafting, leveling mounts, achievement hunting, and more that is buried under NDA. Now if you go and look up all the locations, skip all the quest content, skip crafting, etc... then you might just do it. To accomplish everything in the included 30 days would be impossible. The game is meant to be enjoyed (the longer the better Im sure by ZOS standards), not bum rushed like a segment of the population enjoys doing.
As with most mmo's, the amount of time to play the game is totally dependent on the player and their goals. To simplify a game by saying it's content is only limited to a month is assuming you will skip a lot. It's like eating the pie crust after scraping out the filling and topping.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I never understand why everyone cried about exclusive race in CE. Supply and demand. It's their product, they can charge as expensive as they want. If you don't like it don't buy it. It's not "greedy", it's just business.
Playing video game and buying bread isn't the same. Video game, and a race in a video game isn't life necessity, they can charge $2000 for extra race if players are willing to pay for it.
I entirely agree with you. But, why we cry, is simply because if we do not, it can send a signal that says we do not care. The worst thing you can do in a situation you do not like, is to stay quiet. Even worse is being all talk and no action. The people who complain but still buy it. Ridiculous.
Sad thing is, there are people in this world who simply don't care when prices rise. They don't care if companies take advantage of them. As long as they get their game .. it's all good. Then they like to talk smack at those who disagree. They talk down on them, telling them to get a job or a better job or stop being cheap. As if that has anything to do with it.
Ever meet one of those people who will only buy the most expensive junk? Those who are willing to pay a higher price then the average consumer for something that you can get cheaper? Honestly .. it's just as bad as being cheap. They are just on the other side of the extreme.
The sad thing is that people don't realize that factoring in Inflation, this game compared to games like WOW is cheaper to play each month than it was when you bought WOW in 2004. Your $15 in 2004 is just over $18.50 today. People should be happy they are getting a subscription bargain lol.
ROFL, that is a terrible argument. In plus, I wasn't even talking about the sub. Not to mention, that only works if I played WoW, which I have not. On top of that, it only works if I played WoW early on.
Not only that, you could say that about everything. AND ... you have to factor in a persons job. It's not a bargain if the person is making the same amount of money as they where in 2004. Inflation includes tons of factors you are leaving out. It isn't as simple as putting numbers into some online calculator. XD
If you think what I wrote was based on WOW it went over your head. The point was that inflation has gone up and subscriptions have generally stayed the same. Average salaries have absolutely gone up since 2004 along with utilities, gas prices, cereal, shall I go on? Why shouldn't you be factoring in the sub cost for the total cost of ownership of a product? The point is these prices, both the box and the sub are more than reasonable for this game, both editions, especially compared to some other collector editions like SWTOR. You whine about that people don't care that prices rise. What about the cost of the staff, utilities, taxes, rent, and everything else to support the game that def, do rise over time?
No ... I am afraid what I have been saying went over YOUR head.
Even if average salaries have gone up doesn't mean everyone's has. You have to get a raise in order for that to happen. Just because minimum wage goes up, doesn't mean you get a raise. As for the sub, I wasn't factoring it in because I wasn't TALKING about it. I was talking about charging extra for a race that you would usually expect to see standard in a game.
As for the prices being reasonable, that is your opinion. I disagree. Also ,yes I whine about people not caring about rising prices, because they don't care. Who wouldn't, it's common sense to me.
The cost for staff, utilities, taxes, rent and what not ... ya .. sure it goes up. Heck, not only that, but with how much work that has to go into these games these days, it's probably a struggle. However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high. $60 by itself isn't cheap. Adding on top of that $20 for the CE, and $15 per month. Sorry, to me that is expensive and ridiculous. There isn't anything you could tell me, that would convince me other wise.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
o.o Well it is true. It's why companies try to reduce costs rather then raising prices. If a company was to raise their prices every single time production costed more for them, they would lose customers left and right. In most cases, it's never the best choice just to increase prices. I used to work for a company that did this and they lost all their customers and went out of business. Sometimes a better solution is to make things cheaper, aka sales. You need to draw in customers, not scare them away. Doesn't matter how much you increase the price if you don't have any buyers.
As for the second bit, it is also true. The more you like something, the more likely you will buy it for a higher cost. The less you like something, the more likely you won't buy it unless it's cheap. A good example of this is steam sales. I buy so many games, I honestly would never have purchased if it wasn't for them being so cheap.
Edit: I am assuming your comment was sarcasm. However, as I said, even if those statements sound crazy, it's absolutely true. Make a hamburger for $5 and sell it for $7 get 100s of customers daily, at least you are making a profit. Get to greedy and try and sell it for $12 and only get 20 customers daily. Price matters greatly no matter how much your costs increase. Consumers generally don't give a crap about all that stuff. All they see is something costing more, and they choose not to buy it because of it.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
No, that's not business 101.
And companies raises prices on stuff every day, what are you talking about? You often don't notice it because sometimes price adjustments are miniscule. If a case of Coke goes up by 3 cents at whole sale, that gets divided by volume so you may or may not see a visible increase at retail for the moment until enough costs have increased to force the retailer to mark it up. Or they eat the cost in that area and raise the cost of goods in another.
Yes, cost cutting also exists, but market price dictates what a product will likely sell at. So if major label games are still selling at $59.99, then you can expect it to continue.
While you, as an individual, with your own personal tastes will make decisions based on how much interest you have for any particular good, that does not mean it's price should be lowered. That means that you will not be purchasing it at that price, that's all it means. There needs to be a significant market segment that isn't willing to buy it at the set price before you'll see it move.
You don't need to inform me of price elasticity, I'm well versed.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
It's not Business 101. When cost to produce exceeds revenue you have a REAL problem. Your company failed in determining the demand elasticity for their product and rose price too high for their consumers. They could have also chosen to take steps to reduce cost, but apparently didn't.
There is no reducing costs by that much when it comes to MMOs, not when people are whining about graphics and demand more complex systems and coding. So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
It's not Business 101. When cost to produce exceeds revenue you have a REAL problem. Your company failed in determining the demand elasticity for their product and rose price too high for their consumers. They could have also chosen to take steps to reduce cost, but apparently didn't.
There is no reducing costs by that much when it comes to MMOs, not when people are whining about graphics and demand more complex systems and coding. So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs.
I give up trying to debate Business 101 with him. He and I obviously disagree with the basics of economics so it is what it is lol. All I know is I personally am happy with all of the costs involved despite my dislike around the explorer pack or how they marketed the race skin. Now if they don't deliver on the 4-6 week content and even as as one of the slowest levelers in the world I get to end level too fast, then I may be posting a critical thread in the future :-) lol.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
No, that's not business 101.
And companies raises prices on stuff every day, what are you talking about? You often don't notice it because sometimes price adjustments are miniscule. If a case of Coke goes up by 3 cents at whole sale, that gets divided by volume so you may or may not see a visible increase at retail for the moment until enough costs have increased to force the retailer to mark it up. Or they eat the cost in that area and raise the cost of goods in another.
Yes, cost cutting also exists, but market price dictates what a product will likely sell at. So if major label games are still selling at $59.99, then you can expect it to continue.
While you, as an individual, with your own personal tastes will make decisions based on how much interest you have for any particular good, that does not mean it's price should be lowered. That means that you will not be purchasing it at that price, that's all it means. There needs to be a significant market segment that isn't willing to buy it at the set price before you'll see it move.
You don't need to inform me of price elasticity, I'm well versed.
You missed the point. I am talking about huge price increases. Not something unnoticeable. Just because a game cost $3,000,000 to make, doesn't mean it's a good idea to then sell your game for $100. Economy doesn't work like that. In order for you to be able to increase your prices much higher you have to be offering something people want which they feel is worth that cost and can't get something similar cheaper somewhere else.
"While you, as an individual, with your own personal tastes will make decisions based on how much interest you have for any particular good, that does not mean it's price should be lowered. "
You know, I actually didn't say that at all. I said, that the more you like something, the more likely you will be willing to buy for higher prices. The less you like something, the less willing and the more likely you will see it as expensive. Comic books are a very good example. Collectors will purchase these comics at ridiculous prices that I am sure those who are not interested think is expensive. To those comic book collectors, it may not seem all that expensive and to them it's worth every penny. I not once said, the price should be lowered because of this. I was only pointing out, to ME, personally, the price is to high because of my impression of the game.
You all really need to learn to comprehend what a person is saying better.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
It's not Business 101. When cost to produce exceeds revenue you have a REAL problem. Your company failed in determining the demand elasticity for their product and rose price too high for their consumers. They could have also chosen to take steps to reduce cost, but apparently didn't.
There is no reducing costs by that much when it comes to MMOs, not when people are whining about graphics and demand more complex systems and coding. So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs.
Funny last I checked B2P, and F2P worked just fine. So reducing costs works. Which means your statement is false.
Originally posted by Otakun Anyone who believes that ESO wasn't going to sell well and do well in the first couple months is kidding themselves. The game will sell and bring in subs on name alone. Most people I know plan to play the game even though they have problems with it since there is nothing out right now to distract them from it. Most likely most people will play ESO till Wildstar then there will be sub drops for people interested in that game and the others will just sit on ESO till something else pops up to take their interest away.
Wilstar is not fun. I'm a beta tester, and I don't even play it any more because its actually boring. I have been to 2 ESO beta's and I can't wait for the next ESO beta, because its just so much fun. To say that people will play ESO till Wildstar comes out, is a stretch. Before I got into the Wildstar beta I didn't have any interest in ESO because I'm a big WoW fan and I thought Wildstar would be the logical choice for me, but I was wrong. Wildstar is nothing compared to WoW in fun factor. On the other hand ESO is actually more fun than WoW. So people don't over estimate Wildstar.And don't under estimate ESO.
ESO will be another SWTOR, tons of box sales via fanboys, but a ghost town by the 2nd or 3rd month due to it just being a bad game. Whichis kinda sad considering eso is actually a bit diffrent than most mmorpgs these days. I myself found it boring.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
"Funny last I checked B2P, and F2P worked just fine. So reducing costs works. Which means your statement is false."
Thats not costs - thats the revenue model. You might consider attending class once in a while..
Costs are like paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc.
rofl ... omg. Cost as in price of the game ...XD. Reducing the price of the game I meant. Jeez ... people lol. *shakes head and laughs*
Semantics. You would think you would know what I meant by that since I am talking about B2P and F2P. I will admit, I should have worded it differently .. but still.
"So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs."
I was talking about that statement. You can reduce the cost of the game instead of raising it.
Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
In which case it seems you need to go attend classes as well lol.
Originally posted by Siveria ESO will be another SWTOR, tons of box sales via fanboys, but a ghost town by the 2nd or 3rd month due to it just being a bad game. Whichis kinda sad considering eso is actually a bit diffrent than most mmorpgs these days. I myself found it boring.
They can hope for the success of SWTOR. I know it's seen as a failure but in honesty it's doing very well.
SWTOR started with nearly 2 million subscribers, starting to lose them around the 8-9 month mark. However since going f2p with the optional subscription they have been making large sums on money. Their cash shop makes around 189million per year alone (not counting the money their optional subscribers bring in).
If that's failure I doubt many would want to not be one.
Comments
If you think what I wrote was based on WOW it went over your head. The point was that inflation has gone up and subscriptions have generally stayed the same. Average salaries have absolutely gone up since 2004 along with utilities, gas prices, cereal, shall I go on? Why shouldn't you be factoring in the sub cost for the total cost of ownership of a product? The point is these prices, both the box and the sub are more than reasonable for this game, both editions, especially compared to some other collector editions like SWTOR. You whine about that people don't care that prices rise. What about the cost of the staff, utilities, taxes, rent, and everything else to support the game that def, do rise over time?
There Is Always Hope!
Like I said before ESO will outsell the current amount of EU/NA WoW subcribers. Now they will not hold onto to that amount because the game is not designed too.
Developers design their games for a certain amount of gameplay. The games that 'last longer' just have time sinks built into the them. For example WoW limits raids to once a week, makes sure you have a certain gear score to raid, and makes some of the raids difficult. These are just tactics to stretch content.
ESO won't have this stuff by design. If you stretch out content you get modern players very upset. Now you can buy this MMO and finish in a month. So you won't have to pay any SUB. Its a better deal. We now have other games to play.
You forgot to factor in the part where they promised new content every 4-6 weeks and they have already been working on future content well after launch for quite some time, so your comment is invalid. Unless you have way too much time on your hands, if you finish the game in a month (hitting space bar on the quests, ignoring lore, ignoring crafting, etc) you probably aren't playing it in the spirit of the way it was meant to be played and probably aren't their target market anyway,
There Is Always Hope!
what you expected as a physical product the CE of this game deserves its money, even me, who i dont intend to buy or play that game when i saw it i was excited, also based on the digital offers they are huge the benefits so everyone who will be able will spend that money. It is good for the company, bad for the gaming though cause the digital part of CE is really nasty and overbalanced, but even these is part of an argument.
"You forgot to factor in the part where they promised new content every 4-6 weeks and they have already been working on future content well after launch for quite some time, so your comment is invalid. Unless you have way too much time on your hands, if you finish the game in a month (hitting space bar on the quests, ignoring lore, ignoring crafting, etc) you probably aren't playing it in the spirit of the way it was meant to be played and probably aren't their target market anyway,"
Developer created can only keep up with players if it..
1) is very difficult
2) has awful long grinds.
I don't think they will be making content like that and thus won't be able to keep up with the hardcore players. You watch people will be hitting max level in one week - never mind the month (or three) that I intend to play. This is by design though.
If you make the content exceedingly difficult or have long grinds players don't like it. it just so many man hours to create one hour of themepark style content.
And this is what happens to every MMO, this should be a known fact.
You should consider that Australian internet is expensive for 24GB beta downloads, hence the physical editions. I would play the Beta but my monthly allowance is 25GB.
If you can do everything in ESO in just a month (one person, not a shared account) then you would be doing damage to yourself due to lack of sleep. Not only is there the three faction campaigns 1-50, 50+, and 50++, but then all of cyrodiil (with its numerous dungeons, quests, pvp, etc...), collecting all the skyshards, Hidden quests, adventure zones, dark anchors, dungeons (public and private), crafting, leveling mounts, achievement hunting, and more that is buried under NDA. Now if you go and look up all the locations, skip all the quest content, skip crafting, etc... then you might just do it. To accomplish everything in the included 30 days would be impossible. The game is meant to be enjoyed (the longer the better Im sure by ZOS standards), not bum rushed like a segment of the population enjoys doing.
As with most mmo's, the amount of time to play the game is totally dependent on the player and their goals. To simplify a game by saying it's content is only limited to a month is assuming you will skip a lot. It's like eating the pie crust after scraping out the filling and topping.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
No ... I am afraid what I have been saying went over YOUR head.
Even if average salaries have gone up doesn't mean everyone's has. You have to get a raise in order for that to happen. Just because minimum wage goes up, doesn't mean you get a raise. As for the sub, I wasn't factoring it in because I wasn't TALKING about it. I was talking about charging extra for a race that you would usually expect to see standard in a game.
As for the prices being reasonable, that is your opinion. I disagree. Also ,yes I whine about people not caring about rising prices, because they don't care. Who wouldn't, it's common sense to me.
The cost for staff, utilities, taxes, rent and what not ... ya .. sure it goes up. Heck, not only that, but with how much work that has to go into these games these days, it's probably a struggle. However, just because it cost them more to make it, doesn't mean they have to charge us more when the price is already pretty high. $60 by itself isn't cheap. Adding on top of that $20 for the CE, and $15 per month. Sorry, to me that is expensive and ridiculous. There isn't anything you could tell me, that would convince me other wise.
Keeping in mind I am factoring in my impressions of the game. So if the game was amazing, the price wouldn't seem so high. But my personal opinion of the game is pretty low. It's really no different then the countless other MMOs on the market that I can play entirely free if I wanted to.
This is excellent. "Just because something costs more to make, doesn't mean they have to charge us more." Amazing. Can we get this put on a plaque and installed next to the Statue of Liberty? This is true freedom from thought.
Also of note, the second bit is also quite exquisite. "Because I don't particularly like it, they are charging too much for it. If I did like it, then I would be more okay with the price." Beautiful.
o.o Well it is true. It's why companies try to reduce costs rather then raising prices. If a company was to raise their prices every single time production costed more for them, they would lose customers left and right. In most cases, it's never the best choice just to increase prices. I used to work for a company that did this and they lost all their customers and went out of business. Sometimes a better solution is to make things cheaper, aka sales. You need to draw in customers, not scare them away. Doesn't matter how much you increase the price if you don't have any buyers.
As for the second bit, it is also true. The more you like something, the more likely you will buy it for a higher cost. The less you like something, the more likely you won't buy it unless it's cheap. A good example of this is steam sales. I buy so many games, I honestly would never have purchased if it wasn't for them being so cheap.
Edit: I am assuming your comment was sarcasm. However, as I said, even if those statements sound crazy, it's absolutely true. Make a hamburger for $5 and sell it for $7 get 100s of customers daily, at least you are making a profit. Get to greedy and try and sell it for $12 and only get 20 customers daily. Price matters greatly no matter how much your costs increase. Consumers generally don't give a crap about all that stuff. All they see is something costing more, and they choose not to buy it because of it.
Yup, it's little gems like these that keep me reading these forums, lol
Truly excellent !
More sarcasm? ... I find it kinda funny how I keep getting sarcastic remarks, but in all honesty, can anyone really disagree with that? It's business 101 really. What is wrong about it?
No, that's not business 101.
And companies raises prices on stuff every day, what are you talking about? You often don't notice it because sometimes price adjustments are miniscule. If a case of Coke goes up by 3 cents at whole sale, that gets divided by volume so you may or may not see a visible increase at retail for the moment until enough costs have increased to force the retailer to mark it up. Or they eat the cost in that area and raise the cost of goods in another.
Yes, cost cutting also exists, but market price dictates what a product will likely sell at. So if major label games are still selling at $59.99, then you can expect it to continue.
While you, as an individual, with your own personal tastes will make decisions based on how much interest you have for any particular good, that does not mean it's price should be lowered. That means that you will not be purchasing it at that price, that's all it means. There needs to be a significant market segment that isn't willing to buy it at the set price before you'll see it move.
You don't need to inform me of price elasticity, I'm well versed.
It's not Business 101. When cost to produce exceeds revenue you have a REAL problem. Your company failed in determining the demand elasticity for their product and rose price too high for their consumers. They could have also chosen to take steps to reduce cost, but apparently didn't.
There is no reducing costs by that much when it comes to MMOs, not when people are whining about graphics and demand more complex systems and coding. So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs.
I give up trying to debate Business 101 with him. He and I obviously disagree with the basics of economics so it is what it is lol. All I know is I personally am happy with all of the costs involved despite my dislike around the explorer pack or how they marketed the race skin. Now if they don't deliver on the 4-6 week content and even as as one of the slowest levelers in the world I get to end level too fast, then I may be posting a critical thread in the future :-) lol.
There Is Always Hope!
You missed the point. I am talking about huge price increases. Not something unnoticeable. Just because a game cost $3,000,000 to make, doesn't mean it's a good idea to then sell your game for $100. Economy doesn't work like that. In order for you to be able to increase your prices much higher you have to be offering something people want which they feel is worth that cost and can't get something similar cheaper somewhere else.
"While you, as an individual, with your own personal tastes will make decisions based on how much interest you have for any particular good, that does not mean it's price should be lowered. "
You know, I actually didn't say that at all. I said, that the more you like something, the more likely you will be willing to buy for higher prices. The less you like something, the less willing and the more likely you will see it as expensive. Comic books are a very good example. Collectors will purchase these comics at ridiculous prices that I am sure those who are not interested think is expensive. To those comic book collectors, it may not seem all that expensive and to them it's worth every penny. I not once said, the price should be lowered because of this. I was only pointing out, to ME, personally, the price is to high because of my impression of the game.
You all really need to learn to comprehend what a person is saying better.
Funny last I checked B2P, and F2P worked just fine. So reducing costs works. Which means your statement is false.
Wilstar is not fun. I'm a beta tester, and I don't even play it any more because its actually boring. I have been to 2 ESO beta's and I can't wait for the next ESO beta, because its just so much fun. To say that people will play ESO till Wildstar comes out, is a stretch. Before I got into the Wildstar beta I didn't have any interest in ESO because I'm a big WoW fan and I thought Wildstar would be the logical choice for me, but I was wrong. Wildstar is nothing compared to WoW in fun factor. On the other hand ESO is actually more fun than WoW. So people don't over estimate Wildstar.And don't under estimate ESO.
"Funny last I checked B2P, and F2P worked just fine. So reducing costs works. Which means your statement is false."
Thats not costs - thats the revenue model. <g> You might consider attending class once in a while..
Costs are like paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
rofl ... omg. Cost as in price of the game ...XD. Reducing the price of the game I meant. Jeez ... people lol. *shakes head and laughs*
Semantics. You would think you would know what I meant by that since I am talking about B2P and F2P. I will admit, I should have worded it differently .. but still.
"So the only option is raising price, which we see in micro transactions of all sorts, but they generally haven't touched box prices or subs."
I was talking about that statement. You can reduce the cost of the game instead of raising it.
Also .. I suggest you look up the word cost in the dictionary , it doesn't specifically pertain to "paying the programmers, the servers, advertising etc."
In which case it seems you need to go attend classes as well lol.
They can hope for the success of SWTOR. I know it's seen as a failure but in honesty it's doing very well.
SWTOR started with nearly 2 million subscribers, starting to lose them around the 8-9 month mark. However since going f2p with the optional subscription they have been making large sums on money. Their cash shop makes around 189million per year alone (not counting the money their optional subscribers bring in).
If that's failure I doubt many would want to not be one.