What's Next, Pay Extra to Unlock Certain Classes?

XssivXssiv Haskell, NJMember UncommonPosts: 359

Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game.

However, when a developer chooses to charge a box price + sub, then believes it's OK to charge an additional fee to give players access to all classes, we are treading on a slippery slope that simply will not end well for most gamers.

Let's be honest, if Zenimax sells a lot of CE's because of this tactic, we all know that the next round of MMO releases will take this idea one step further.  

Will we be paying extra to unlock a certain class?  

Or only people who purchased the CE can access a certain raid?  

Want that next tier of gear to stay competitive in PvP, better cough up some cash.

 

I'm hoping that ESO CE sales aren't amazing, not because I want ESO to fail but because I don't want other developers to think this type of business practice is acceptable to MMO gamers.

 

Unfortunately, the desperation of many MMO players to get their hands on the latest game on day one, often affects their ability to look at the big picture... and the developers / publishers are very well aware of this.  

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Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,185
    It got so bad that after 6 years of only loving mmos, the past month or so I lost all interes !!!!
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,406

    "Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game."

    Why is any different for a B2P or a sub-only game? It is their game. They have the right to sell content anyway they want to.

    If you don't like the class, don't buy it. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. If you don't like them selling classes, don't buy the game.

    In fact, given the fierce competition from f2p, i doubt a sub + selling classes will fly. But at the end of the day, i support their right to sell their stuff as they see fit.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,082
    Originally posted by Xssiv
    Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game.

    I'm of the mind that any company can charge anything they want for their product and as long as they don't mis-represent their product AT THE TIME MONEY IS EXCHANGED OR THEREAFTER then that is their prerogative.

    It can be a sub based game that has a full on pay to win cash shop and also charge you every time you log in and for each character you make and charge you extra every time you level.

    However ...

    It is up to the consumer to make the decision whether or not this is worth it to them and worth their money.

    The choice is yours.




  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHMember RarePosts: 1,708
    Originally posted by Xssiv
    Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game.

    Any company has the right to put pay barriers wherever they want. It's their game and if you want to play it, you follow their rules and pay their fees, period.

    Yes, they could charge for raid content, or PvP gear, or sparkle ponies. As long as they don't misrepresent the game at  the time of sale, they can do as they please. Don't like it? Don't play the game.

     

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!


    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 


  • anemoanemo Member UncommonPosts: 1,226
    You already do with expansions.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,977

    The dangerous followup of this will be: balance.

     

    Publishers releasing P2P race or classes are showing they don't care for class balance. Why? Imagine the screaming over an "elite" class doesn't pwn because it costs extra. No one wants to buy races/classes if it's nerfed to the ground at the gate, no fun being the #1 target that's that easy to kill. So the publishers have to make them "special".

     

    Nothing gets the gamer's goat more than a race/class that's more powerful solely to justify a RL money price tag.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Xssiv
    Let me start by saying that F2P games have the right to put pay barriers on pretty much whatever they want if they're not charging anything to play the basic game.

    I'm of the mind that any company can charge anything they want for their product and as long as they don't mis-represent their product AT THE TIME MONEY IS EXCHANGED OR THEREAFTER then that is their prerogative.

    It can be a sub based game that has a full on pay to win cash shop and also charge you every time you log in and for each character you make and charge you extra every time you level.

    However ...

    It is up to the consumer to make the decision whether or not this is worth it to them and worth their money.

    The choice is yours.

    Pretty much this.   Heck, the way people complain about companies it seems like companies can't win no matter what they do. 

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,382
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    OMG expansion paywall! lol!

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • GhabboGhabbo Buenos AiresMember UncommonPosts: 263

    Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:

     

    1) Pay for alpha testing.

    2) Pay for beta testing.

    3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever).

    4) Pay for DAY1 DLC.

    5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max).

    6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs.

    7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc).

    8) Pay for expansions.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember EpicPosts: 7,680
    Originally posted by Ghabbo
    Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:   1) Pay for alpha testing. 2) Pay for beta testing. 3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever). 4) Pay for DAY1 DLC. 5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max). 6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs. 7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc). 8) Pay for expansions.  

    Coming up:  Pay when you quit the game!

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 1,250
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    This.

    Guys, there is where we will be able to tell who here is either being paid to promote games or are yes men. Last week most of these very same people were talking about how F2P games nickel and dime by locking content and making you pay for it, and are now saying a company can do whatever they want as long as they don't misrepresent (which Zenimax has done since announcing the race lock). As well as for a year defended the idea a TES game should have race/faction locks for every single reason imaginable.........and are now doing the opposite for why its OK to have a way around it.

    Right now TESO is a sub based game with F2P aspects and you KNOW this is just the start if it works for them. There will be no reason for them to start releasing partial content and making you pay for the rest, with a subscription on top of it. No more full expansions, they will sell you part of it, make you pay AGAIN for the rest.

    You people are opening Pandora's box, just because its a new game and you will not like what comes of it. You are going to end up with the worst of both worlds.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Ghabbo
    Short answer, yes, like it or not this is the current trend:   1) Pay for alpha testing. 2) Pay for beta testing. 3) Pay for exclusive perks (CE or whatever). 4) Pay for DAY1 DLC. 5) Pay monthly subs (during 12 months max). 6) Pay for unlockable content (clases, races, bag space, etc) or continue paying monthly subs. 7) Optional: Pay for cashshop items/services (instant leveling, faction transfers, etc). 8) Pay for expansions.  

    Coming up:  Pay when you quit the game!

    Don't worry I'm sure a publisher like EA is already on top of their new cellphone like subscription plan: 2 year contract required or if you leave early, pay the rate for the game and all DLC content for 2 years.

     

    Sad thing is, addicted gamers would pay anything for it, too. -_-

  • plat0nicplat0nic new york, NYMember Posts: 301
    Heh pay extra to unlock classe??? League of Legends? I do like the f2p games that manage to keep pvp balance with item shops though. Games like Camelot unchained, from daoc boss, I am all for paying for :D  You do realize these games took years to make and dozens of people working on them right?

    image
    Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
    2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    Please tell us that you play MMOs that do not charge for expansions and you genuinely do not know that most subscription MMOs charge for them, otherwise... wow.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 603
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    This.

    Guys, there is where we will be able to tell who here is either being paid to promote games or are yes men. Last week most of these very same people were talking about how F2P games nickel and dime by locking content and making you pay for it, and are now saying a company can do whatever they want as long as they don't misrepresent (which Zenimax has done since announcing the race lock). As well as for a year defended the idea a TES game should have race/faction locks for every single reason imaginable.........and are now doing the opposite for why its OK to have a way around it.

    Right now TESO is a sub based game with F2P aspects and you KNOW this is just the start if it works for them. There will be no reason for them to start releasing partial content and making you pay for the rest, with a subscription on top of it. No more full expansions, they will sell you part of it, make you pay AGAIN for the rest.

    You people are opening Pandora's box, just because its a new game and you will not like what comes of it. You are going to end up with the worst of both worlds.

     

    Never ever start a post with a fallacy. (ad hominem in this case)

    It makes everything you say much weaker, you are hurting your own credibility. And I honestly mean this positively, I want good discussions. 

    You should rely on strong arguments, that is what makes a discussion worthwhile. 

     

    I agree we will see where the trend goes and how far some devs can take it before the approach starts failing.

     

    The thing is, if a dev takes it too far and overprices, people will vote with their wallets. Other devs will undercut them (offer better payment mehods in this case).  

    One dev overpricing is a huge opportunity to fetch his market share for an other dev.  

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,382
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    Please tell us that you play MMOs that do not charge for expansions and you genuinely do not know that most subscription MMOs charge for them, otherwise... wow.

    I think you misunderstood what I had intended to get across. Once you pay for the expansion in a subscription game, they traditionally have not asked you to pay an additional $20 on top of the purchase price to unlock race/classes.

  • KothosesKothoses GalwayMember UncommonPosts: 857
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    This is so simple so logical and so utterly indicative of the mmo market and how with a little nouse you can set a secondary pay wall up in a way that people will thank you for.

     

    Admittedly expansions are expected to come with extra content not just a class.   But the point stands, we pay a sub for content then we are also paying a box price for content, its an interesting double dipping tactic that always surprised me no one bothered to question.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember RarePosts: 2,266
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    I'm sure pre-order collectors editions for expansions are on the horizon.

    Buy the expansion for $39.99 and get the new adventuring areas and items and monsters to fight for $20 more upgrade to the Collectors Edition and play as exclusive class x for $40 more play as exclusive race x and class x for $60 more get a max level character with epic gear that can be any class or race on any faction. Then on top of that a subscription and cash shop plus the box price and it's pre-order Collector's Edition.

    People would still defend the company and throw money at them. Setting the president and reenforcing the business practice so we get more and more of it until people make excuses like trying to say every game is a cash grab to defend it.

     

     

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    Please tell us that you play MMOs that do not charge for expansions and you genuinely do not know that most subscription MMOs charge for them, otherwise... wow.

    I think you misunderstood what I had intended to get across. Once you pay for the expansion in a subscription game, they traditionally have not asked you to pay an additional $20 on top of the purchase price to unlock race/classes.

    No, because you paid the additional $20 to buy the expansion. It's disenchanting that this had to be explained. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,406
    Originally posted by nilden
     

    People would still defend the company and throw money at them. Setting the president and reenforcing the business practice so we get more and more of it until people make excuses like trying to say every game is a cash grab to defend it.

     

     

    Says who? I can defend a company's right to charge whatever they want, and at the same time, don't spend a dime on them, because that is my right.

    I don't see a conflict. The principle is simple. It is  a free market .. companies do whatever they want to do, and i decide if i want to pay/play.

    ESO i probably won't until it goes F2P, but hey that is just me.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,382
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    Please tell us that you play MMOs that do not charge for expansions and you genuinely do not know that most subscription MMOs charge for them, otherwise... wow.

    I think you misunderstood what I had intended to get across. Once you pay for the expansion in a subscription game, they traditionally have not asked you to pay an additional $20 on top of the purchase price to unlock race/classes.

    No, because you paid the additional $20 to buy the expansion. It's disenchanting that this had to be explained. 

    Huh, I'm not sure you are understanding for some reason. You pay $40 for an expansion (access to content, etc). They ask for $20 more to unlock a race/class. That has not traditionally been done in subscription MMORPGs.

  • kartoolkartool Hamilton, ONMember UncommonPosts: 497
    If you don't like the business model, don't buy the games. That is the only way they will learn. 
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by anemo
    You already do with expansions.

    Yeah, but when you buy an expansion you actually get the race/class. You don't have to pay extra for it.

    Please tell us that you play MMOs that do not charge for expansions and you genuinely do not know that most subscription MMOs charge for them, otherwise... wow.

    I think you misunderstood what I had intended to get across. Once you pay for the expansion in a subscription game, they traditionally have not asked you to pay an additional $20 on top of the purchase price to unlock race/classes.

    No, because you paid the additional $20 to buy the expansion. It's disenchanting that this had to be explained. 

    For all of the content it brings.

     

    WoW's WoD is an entire continent revamp of Outland from the past; new player models/animations/emotes; and long awaited old AV style BG...this on top of a heck of a lot of new lore.

     

    You pay one price for everything.

     

    What. A. Bargain.

     

    ESO, for example, they're starting out with pay upfront for an entire world that will fit in Outland, with no bug polishing.

     

    WoW got where it got because of 10 years of polishing the game. ESO is going to start with nothing, and we can only tell if it survives if it lasts for 2 years while all the WoW camp is playing WoW, too.

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 603
    Originally posted by kartool
    If you don't like the business model, don't buy the games. That is the only way they will learn. 

    I agree that's the best way to influence companies. 

    They will listen to missing revenue much more than to any angry forum posts / emails / letters. :)

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