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Elder Scrolls is dead, the sky is falling, it's over for Bethesda

SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member

Really guys? I've seen people who have gone as far as saying "Bethesda are disrespecting me! Never buying their game again" and "I'm looking at potential lawsuits right now"

So the complaints thus far:

  • If I don't buy an Imperial version, I will never get my Imperial race.
  • If I don't pre-order, I will never get to play any race on any faction.
  • This game has a sub. It will be F2P in a week.
Let's evaluate the statements. Firstly, we'll start with how ESO isn't going to be paywalled. If you didn't buy an Imperial version or pre-order, it stands to reason those things are going to be achievable in-game otherwise they'd be.. paywalled?
 
 
Matt Firor said the game, in addition to the monthly fee, would offer players a chance to spend more on items in an in-game cash shop.

“There won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that,” he said.

So yes, there will be a cash shop but jumping on the worst possible scenario of having to "buy" the Imperial race and the any race/any faction functionality? Chill out and wait to see what finishing the Newgame++ yields. Plenty of MMOs work in this framework where you can add the entitlements offered by collectors editions to your account later down the road.
 
People need to calm down and wait for actual facts. You don't kick your community in the face by forcing them down routes, you give them attractive options that they can CHOOSE to pay a little extra for to have it sooner, much like the horse.
 
Lastly, am I the only one who thinks a sub model is just fine for games that are actually good and make good decisions? Sure, SWTOR went free, it was a crap game. It had poor business decisions made all around and it did that to survive the crap decisions. Yeah, GW2 was free from the start, it's entire model is based around minor content updates. LOTRO went free, aye, after 6 years? Old games do well to go free, it breathes life into them for a few more years.
 
I don't go to a restaurant and have a bad meal then become bitter towards every restaurant from that point on - simply put, I never really know until I've tried it or at least read a multitude of reviews. So why would I do it with an MMO when I have no facts to speak of?
 
So hey, calm down for just a few minutes, hold off on the lawsuits and buy the game you're probably going to buy anyway.
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Comments

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    It's the same few folks that post this doom gloom for all games...they been here years.

    image

  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

    image
  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

    I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general. I dunno how people do it. :P

    Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

    Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

    I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

  • RateroRatero Tallassee, ALPosts: 337Member Uncommon

    Personally, I love it when the Drama Queens start their collective ranting.  It makes the boards interesting and I can sit back in my chair with a bag of pop-corn and laugh at all of them.

    Seriously though, it's like this on pretty much any launch.  The Pre-orders for the game are revealed and all the whiners come out of the wood works.  For the most part, everything and I mean everything in the pre-orders are nothing but fluff and people pay out large sums for that fluff.  Also, after a few weeks into the game most people never use the pre-order fluff again.  There are some exceptions though... like some mounts that can only be received through pre-ordering.

    The point is this... They give you a list of options on how to purchase the game.  If you find value in one option over another then it is YOUR choice which one you buy.  By choosing one pre-order option over another pre-order option has NO effect at all on someone elses selection.  They had the opportunity to purchase that same package and they decided not to purchase it for some reason or another.  You made your choice and they made their choice.

    Personally, I find it a bit refreshing that the higher costing pre-orders of ESO do give you something more than worthless fluff.  If I wanted to spend more money on a higher end pre-order then I would actually like to have some sort of "value" given back to me in game instead of a silly cloth map, statue, a CD or some book I will never crack open.  If people are willing to pay a bit more for the game than other people I see no reason why they should not be given something that while may not give them a huge advantage in the game, it does give them something in game that is nice.  In the case of ESO unlocking the ANY race for ANY faction for the pre-orders... I think it is brilliant and I think they should never offer it again since it would then water down the reason for doing the pre-orders in the first place.  Perhaps at some later date they could sell single race unlocks in the cash shop, but not for a few months after release.

    /sits back with his bag of pop-corn and starts reading more of the forums

    Ratero.

  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperNick
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

    I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general.

    Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

    Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

    How about being nice to people? Should I never be nice to anyone again because some people throw niceness back in your face?

    I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

    What you are describing is very different subjects, one is something you want to like to do effortlessly, like being nice, if you are then thats what will happen. Gaming is kind of different in the sense of having to put effort into in-order to feel achievement. Much like a hypothesis if you are wrong all the effort put into it really wears down on the optimism. Also movies, cars, and ( dare i say it) people are generally not enough bad to the point of no return. If I tried boxing for the last 4 years and lost every fight out of 20 fights you might want to quit because it is simply not worth the effort if you feel you will lose before you even have the match. A lot of people feel that way with MMO's I have played: SWG, UO, SB, EVE, WOW, Linage 2, swtor, ect... out of all the mmos in the like 11 years I have only had fun with 3 ....and all three of them don't exist in the same form or at all. 

    image
  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by Ratero

    Personally, I love it when the Drama Queens start their collective ranting.  It makes the boards interesting and I can sit back in my chair with a bag of pop-corn and laugh at all of them.

    Seriously though, it's like this on pretty much any launch.  The Pre-orders for the game are revealed and all the whiners come out of the wood works.  For the most part, everything and I mean everything in the pre-orders are nothing but fluff and people pay out large sums for that fluff.  Also, after a few weeks into the game most people never use the pre-order fluff again.  There are some exceptions though... like some mounts that can only be received through pre-ordering.

    The point is this... They give you a list of options on how to purchase the game.  If you find value in one option over another then it is YOUR choice which one you buy.  By choosing one pre-order option over another pre-order option has NO effect at all on someone elses selection.  They had the opportunity to purchase that same package and they decided not to purchase it for some reason or another.  You made your choice and they made their choice.

    Personally, I find it a bit refreshing that the higher costing pre-orders of ESO do give you something more than worthless fluff.  If I wanted to spend more money on a higher end pre-order then I would actually like to have some sort of "value" given back to me in game instead of a silly cloth map, statue, a CD or some book I will never crack open.  If people are willing to pay a bit more for the game than other people I see no reason why they should not be given something that while may not give them a huge advantage in the game, it does give them something in game that is nice.  In the case of ESO unlocking the ANY race for ANY faction for the pre-orders... I think it is brilliant and I think they should never offer it again since it would then water down the reason for doing the pre-orders in the first place.  Perhaps at some later date they could sell single race unlocks in the cash shop, but not for a few months after release.

    /sits back with his bag of pop-corn and starts reading more of the forums

    Ratero.

    Couldn't have said it better myself.  I like a CE with a little kick to it.

  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Originally posted by SuperNick
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

    I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general.

    Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

    Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

    How about being nice to people? Should I never be nice to anyone again because some people throw niceness back in your face?

    I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

    What you are describing is very different subjects, one is something you want to like to do effortlessly, like being nice, if you are then thats what will happen. Gaming is kind of different in the sense of having to put effort into in-order to feel achievement. Much like a hypothesis if you are wrong all the effort put into it really wears down on the optimism. Also movies, cars, and ( dare i say it) people are generally not enough bad to the point of no return. If I tried boxing for the last 4 years and lost every fight out of 20 fights you might want to quit because it is simply not worth the effort if you feel you will lose before you even have the match. A lot of people feel that way with MMO's I have played: SWG, UO, SB, EVE, WOW, Linage 2, swtor, ect... out of all the mmos in the like 11 years I have only had fun with 3 ....and all three of them don't exist in the same form or at all. 

    I'm not sure where you get this a lot of people, I mean people on this forum, people on other forums?

     

    I mean people do realize that people on forums are only a small percentage of the actually mmo population right?

    Most people are not on the forums, I mean I feel bad for you that didn't enjoy any of the mmos' that came out recently but your lumping people in the same category as you without any kind of facts except for forums that are notoriously know for whining and complaining......

     

    Now I realize not everyone is gonna like TESO but these doom and gloom posts are getting a little ridiculous....

    There will be plenty of people at launch just like every mmo now whether they hold onto them or not is a different story......

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    I hate threads with "sucker" titles.
  • TredoTredo Springfield, MOPosts: 232Member
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    Bah...if you played Pong you've played every game ever... kids today, Oy!

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    If you didn't enjoy Skyrim... why would you even be interested in ESO?

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  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,316Member Uncommon

    You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

    Does that make it alright? No.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Let's not.  you can disagree with people all you want, but you have to accept that people are affected by things differently than you.  If people are going to swear off Bethesda and/or Zenimax because they feel disrespected, then you insulting them for doing so isn't going to make them change their mind.  People have a right to be upset, and you have no right to tell them how they should feel.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    Bah...if you played Pong you've played every game ever... kids today, Oy!

    yup, most of them haven't realised that Bethesda isn't Zenimax image

  • bakon2bakon2 northern, CAPosts: 123Member
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    As to your first point, you are right.  It is super easy to explain this game.  It is an MMO that is attempting to combine the lore from the SINGLE player ESO games into a PERSISTENT MMO world.  Persistent world is the main difference not just extra people running around, that is oversimplifying the difference.  Your second point about the game not being good is moot simply because it is your opinion.  I happen to like it, you don't.  Good.  Move on. 

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

    Does that make it alright? No.

    Everything is eventual...

    All things come to those who wait...

     

    "Eventually" may take a good while to come around but who can argue with your logic?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    If you didn't enjoy Skyrim... why would you even be interested in ESO?

    I've got to wonder this as well, and yet he's not alone.

    This game is literally elder scrolls, done as an MMO. He's right about that. They've said that is what this game is going to be. And now, it's somehow 'crap' because of it.

    Makes about as much sense as going onto the Warhammer boards and saying 'this game will suck, because I hate space marines'.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

    Does that make it alright? No.

    Everything is eventual...

    All things come to those who wait...

     

    "Eventually" may take a good while to come around but who can argue with your logic?

    As you can also read in my reply, I absolutely do not agree with the approach they're taking.

    Based on the fact that they have cash shop plans already though, I'm pretty sure they'll try to nickle & dime the hell out of it even more.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member

    That Matt Firor quote is old and outdated. Paul Sage put those rumours to rest. But considering the recent events, it might as well be a cash shop since they are going to be selling the imperial race in their store as an "upgrade" for the standard TES:O edition.

     

    Also, Bethesda won't fall. Nor will Zenimax Media. Maybe ZOS but most likely not. It's the same as the doomsayers said about Mists of Pandaria when it was released. "Oh, this is surely the end of Blizzard". For gods sake no. It's not, these are multi billion companies. They are worth more than you, your father and the previous 19 generations of your family ever were and the future 12 generations of your line will ever be.

     

    Hopefully they won't all be doomsayers. The game will most likely make a profit, but it won't be the game I had hoped for and will most likely not captivate me for very long with this "Purchase Convenience" options that have recently been installed.

    But it's still too early to say. Considering the amount of dust this announcement has brought up I think it's plausible that they might retract and redesign their marketing and launch.

    image
  • TokkenTokken Portland, ORPosts: 1,153Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SuperNick
    Really guys? I've seen people who have gone as far as saying "Bethesda are disrespecting me! Never buying their game again" and "I'm looking at potential lawsuits right now"So the complaints thus far: If I don't buy an Imperial version, I will never get my Imperial race. If I don't pre-order, I will never get to play any race on any faction. This game has a sub. It will be F2P in a week. Let's evaluate the statements. Firstly, we'll start with how ESO isn't going to be paywalled. If you didn't buy an Imperial version or pre-order, it stands to reason those things are going to be achievable in-game otherwise they'd be.. paywalled?     Matt Firor said the game, in addition to the monthly fee, would offer players a chance to spend more on items in an in-game cash shop. “There won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that,” he said. So yes, there will be a cash shop but jumping on the worst possible scenario of having to "buy" the Imperial race and the any race/any faction functionality? Chill out and wait to see what finishing the Newgame++ yields. Plenty of MMOs work in this framework where you can add the entitlements offered by collectors editions to your account later down the road.   People need to calm down and wait for actual facts. You don't kick your community in the face by forcing them down routes, you give them attractive options that they can CHOOSE to pay a little extra for to have it sooner, much like the horse.   Lastly, am I the only one who thinks a sub model is just fine for games that are actually good and make good decisions? Sure, SWTOR went free, it was a crap game. It had poor business decisions made all around and it did that to survive the crap decisions. Yeah, GW2 was free from the start, it's entire model is based around minor content updates. LOTRO went free, aye, after 6 years? Old games do well to go free, it breathes life into them for a few more years.   I don't go to a restaurant and have a bad meal then become bitter towards every restaurant from that point on - simply put, I never really know until I've tried it or at least read a multitude of reviews. So why would I do it with an MMO when I have no facts to speak of?   So hey, calm down for just a few minutes, hold off on the lawsuits and buy the game you're probably going to buy anyway.


    LOL. I want a cash shop, too. I will still play the game.

    Brad McQuaid Quote:  So, God-willing, the Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen team and I will be able to make or allow that magic to happen a third time, and it too will be not just a great game, but also that catalyst again that brings people together, sometimes out of their comfort zone, learning how to work together not just tactically in a virtual world but also socially in the real world.
  • MargraveMargrave Knoxville, TNPosts: 633Member Uncommon

    I was very skeptical of TESO, then I got into beta. I know, I know.... NDA. Can't say I was in beta.

    Well, I was. And even though some people here say that their time in beta showed them that it wasn't for them I had a very opposite reaction. I feel in love with it. Is it for everyone, no. At this point there is no mmorpg that will be a one size fits all. The market has too much choice, and options for that.

    I have been a die-hard f2p supporter. I love the chance to 'try before buy' in titles. I think it's great. I one of those that loves Neverwinter. This title has had me tempted to pay the sub again. The first one to tempt me was FFXIV, and I resisted. The last numbers I saw about them were that they were at 1 mil subs. That's more than enough to keep a game running well. I continued to resist, and delved deeper into f2p titles. Then I played TESO, and loved it.

    I have since pre-ordered, and can't wait. Will it go f2p? There's no telling. But there are still sub titles out there that are living just fine. No one will hit the WoW numbers again. That was just really great timing with an amazing IP. The market is drastically different now. There's lots more fish in this pond now...

  • PyatraPyatra Kansas City, KSPosts: 644Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by Tredo
    It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

    If you didn't enjoy Skyrim... why would you even be interested in ESO?

    I've got to wonder this as well, and yet he's not alone.

    This game is literally elder scrolls, done as an MMO. He's right about that. They've said that is what this game is going to be. And now, it's somehow 'crap' because of it.

    Makes about as much sense as going onto the Warhammer boards and saying 'this game will suck, because I hate space marines'.

    I knew there was something I forgot to do today!

     

    But seriously I see your point.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asrlohz

    That Matt Firor quote is old and outdated. Paul Sage put those rumours to rest. But considering the recent events, it might as well be a cash shop since they are going to be selling the imperial race in their store as an "upgrade" for the standard TES:O edition.

     

    Also, Bethesda won't fall. Nor will Zenimax Media. Maybe ZOS but most likely not. It's the same as the doomsayers said about Mists of Pandaria when it was released. "Oh, this is surely the end of Blizzard". For gods sake no. It's not, these are multi billion companies. They are worth more than you, your father and the previous 19 generations of your family ever were and the future 12 generations of your line will ever be.

     

    Hopefully they won't all be doomsayers. The game will most likely make a profit, but it won't be the game I had hoped for and will most likely not captivate me for very long with this "Purchase Convenience" options that have recently been installed.

    But it's still too early to say. Considering the amount of dust this announcement has brought up I think it's plausible that they might retract and redesign their marketing and launch.

    This is the Sage interview where they said - the cash shop was misunderstood or badly worded.

    There isn't a cash shop in the way we call it cash shop. It's not microtransactions. It's for "services" like a name change request.

    It's in this audio interview link starting at about minute 0:12:00 / 1:23:41

    http://skyrimofftherecord.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/ep81final.mp3

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

    Does that make it alright? No.

    Everything is eventual...

    All things come to those who wait...

     

    "Eventually" may take a good while to come around but who can argue with your logic?

    As you can also read in my reply, I absolutely do not agree with the approach they're taking.

    Based on the fact that they have cash shop plans already though, I'm pretty sure they'll try to nickle & dime the hell out of it even more.

    Well that's where your logic stops and your speculative opinions begin. I have no comment on those other than to say that my crystal ball must be a different brand than yours.

     

    Do P2P games eventually go F2P? Well the odds are in favor of that being true since it has happened to almost all of them...but you never know.

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Really guys? I've seen people who have gone as far as saying.

    Really guys? I've seen people who have gone as far as saying, "The game has to be made with racial/faction locks for realm pride" and "TESO is an MMO and sacrifices must be made from SPRGs so racial locks make sense!"

    And now

    "Offering a preorder special to allow any race/faction makes perfect sense".

    Anything to blindly defend the game no matter WHAT!

    See, there is a flip side to everything isn't there, sadly, the ones complaining had a legit complaint, that race/faction locks were not needed....you guys however, have no ground to stand on and Zenimax are the ones that took it from you.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

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