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[Editorial] Elder Scrolls Online: Thoughts on the Collector's Edition Controversy

BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing EditorBerea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

It’s crunch time at ZeniMax Online Studios. The developers can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it is a mob of consumers, some with pitchforks and torches, waiting to finally play their game. Due out on 4-4-14 for the PC and Mac version the Elder Scrolls Online is one of the most highly anticipated MMO’s to come out in years. But you all already know that.

Read on for the rest of Rob Lashley's Elder Scrolls Online: Thoughts on the Collector's Edition Controversy.

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Comments

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon

    If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

     

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    I don't have a problem with pets and mounts (cosmetic stuff) being sold in the shop. However a playable race thats only available to collectors editions just doesn't sit right with me. I was someone on the fence thinking about trying the game but Im going to pit the market against itself and see what Wildstar/SOE ALL PASS/WOD has to offer.

     

    I think ESO is outrageously overpriced but thats okay I dont have to buy it.  If in one or two years time it is pitched at a better price (considering the subscription) I might have a go.  Until then, plenty more fish in the sea.  I fell for it once with swtor, never again.

     

    IMHO they have priced themselves out of the market, there is no point in buying unless your a hardcore Scrolls fan.  NDA still in place and not many have seen the end game they have.

     

  • rochristrochrist Harvard, MAPosts: 106Member Common
    I actually think an awful lot of people would be pretty ecstatic with a modern DAoC remake. Just sayin
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,545Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JJ82

    " If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

    No. It just means they heard what some people said and their dislike of the faction lock. And with a simple preorder they can now do what they wanted. The faction lock was originally there to keep one faction from being vastly more populated than the others.

    The only controversy is coming from the people that have always bashed on TESO no matter what.. Now that they offer the option its " OMGZ what they said before was a LIE!111!!1! ".

     

    image

  • jacktorsjacktors Port St Lucie, FLPosts: 158Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    I don't have a problem with pets and mounts generally cosmetic stuff being sold in the shop. However a playable race thats only available to collectors editions just doesn't sit right with me. I was someone on the fence thinking about trying the game but Im going to pit the market against itself and see what Wildstar/SOE ALL PASS/WOD has to offer.

     

    I also think ESO is outrageously overpriced but thats okay I dont have to buy it.  If in one or two years time it is pitched at a better price (considering the subscription) I might have a go, until then plenty more fish in the sea.

     

    IMHO they have priced themselves out of the market, theres no point in buying unless your a hardcore Scrolls fan.  NDA still in place and not many have seen the end game they have in place.

     I agree with your statement. I couldn't have said it better myself. So I will not try. 

     

     
  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    Comparing a playable race locked behind a pay gate is not the same as a WoW Sparkle Pony.  You should have compared it to MoP which required the CE to play the new Panda race, oh it wasn't required.

     

    We the customer allowed this to happen.

     

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by JJ82

    " If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little"

    No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie.

    Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices.

    It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.

    No. It just means they heard what some people said and their dislike of the faction lock. And with a simple preorder they can now do what they wanted. The faction lock was originally there to keep one faction from being vastly more populated than the others.

    The only controversy is coming from the people that have always bashed on TESO no matter what.. Now that they offer the option its " OMGZ what they said before was a LIE!111!!1! ".

     

    But it was a lie.

     

    If they were doing a service to everyone they wouldn't be locking content behind a pay gate or pre-order they would made all races playable by everyone.  I say content because each race is suppose to have their own skill line.  

     

    If it turns out that all races don't have their own skill line and its simply cosmetic its no big deal.  Otherwise its paying for extra content.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    It's been 48 hours and I'm still not convinced there's any real controversy that could be described as anything more than a tempest in a tea-cup.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    It's been 48 hours and I'm still not convinced there's any real controversy that could be described as anything more than a tempest in a tea-cup.

    It's technically been closer to 24 hours, but whatever.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    It's been 48 hours and I'm still not convinced there's any real controversy that could be described as anything more than a tempest in a tea-cup.

    It's technically been closer to 24 hours, but whatever.

     

    I was quoting the article.  I have no idea how long it's been.  That's how much of a controversy I don't think this is.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    It's been 48 hours and I'm still not convinced there's any real controversy that could be described as anything more than a tempest in a tea-cup.

     

    There is no teacup.

    I don't think there is any controversy, most people posting here haven't really been up in arms nor do I see many pitch forks. Just simple answers leading to:

    "I am happy to buy this game."

    or

    "I will skip this one and see what else floats my boat."

    Good luck to both!

     

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by BeansnBread
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    It's been 48 hours and I'm still not convinced there's any real controversy that could be described as anything more than a tempest in a tea-cup.

    It's technically been closer to 24 hours, but whatever.

    I was quoting the article.  I have no idea how long it's been.  That's how much of a controversy I don't think this is.

    We'll see. It hasn't been very long. Hopefully after launch they'll release pre-order numbers like most people do. I think it'll have a negative impact, but I also think they're going to probably sell more boxes than SWTOR in the first week. They've got a great IP and a pretty good game. But I think a lot people are uncomfortable with their business practices.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon
    Whats to think about? It's a pathetic attempt to suck cash from the FANS that made your IP. I wonder if we will have to purchase the ability to walk too...
  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    No. It just means they heard what some people said and their dislike of the faction lock. And with a simple preorder they can now do what they wanted. The faction lock was originally there to keep one faction from being vastly more populated than the others.

    The only controversy is coming from the people that have always bashed on TESO no matter what.. 

     

    Funny how DaoC had population issues so bad to the point they had player protests over a year after release and Mark Jacobs spoke about the mistakes in several CU interviews.

    http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/nowhere-is-the-population-imbalance-worse-then-lancelot-server-please-mythic.250443421/

    Its also funny how ESOs own support base lists "When we decided to put a heavy PvP system into ESO, where there is a massive faction war, we wanted those factions to mean something." as their reason for racial faction locks.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • KendaneKendane Las Cruces, NMPosts: 225Member

    I honestly don't see much of a problem here. I mean you can pre-order a game and after people break NDA or after its lifted you hear something that turns you off from the game, you can always cancel the pre-order. As for having to get the collectors edition to play as an Imperial, doesn't that really just affect those that want to play an Imperial? I mean several people are far more interested in playing Dark Elves, Argonians, or even in the human department you have Red Guard, Nord and Bretons. 

    My biggest issue with all of this was I was kind of hoping to have each faction look distinct. But rather than racewise I was hoping more along the lines of DAoC where you have classes that almost mirror each other but each having a distinct difference.

  • CaskioCaskio Abilene, TXPosts: 339Member

    It is like these people haven't bought in an MMO in the last 10 years.  This is nothing new.

    The way I see it is whether you like or not, the fact your talking about it means you want it, but don't want to pay for it.  So they are going to leave it as is so that you end up breaking down and buying it anyways.

    [mod edit]  I'm just fine shelling out the money for the imperial edition, even if I don't actually create an imperial as my main.

    "If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio

    Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71

    Comparing a playable race locked behind a pay gate is not the same as a WoW Sparkle Pony.  You should have compared it to MoP which required the CE to play the new Panda race, oh it wasn't required.

     We the customer allowed this to happen. 

    In a certain sense, it's exactly the same.  Both are completely optional elements which you only have to pay for if you want to make use of them, with your other choice being to save money if they don't interest you.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • catlanacatlana Houston, TXPosts: 1,677Member
    Originally posted by Caskio

    It is like these people haven't bought in an MMO in the last 10 years.  This is nothing new.

    The way I see it is whether you like or not, the fact your talking about it means you want it, but don't want to pay for it.  So they are going to leave it as is so that you end up breaking down and buying it anyways.

    [mod edit]  I'm just fine shelling out the money for the imperial edition, even if I don't actually create an imperial as my main.

    I am going to get the digital imperial myself. Funny enough, I am not playing an Imperial either. I always get a collector's whenever there is a mount.[mod edit] The game has come a long way since the first time I played at PAX. 

  • MibletMiblet BognerPosts: 333Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    The only controversy is coming from the people that have always bashed on TESO no matter what.. Now that they offer the option its " OMGZ what they said before was a LIE!111!!1! ".

    I actually defended the game in the past and was looking forward to it's release before this.

    I am now undecided.

    Is it just because of this?  No (though it is a part).

    There are other things, but since I am not breaking NDA I am labelled poor, or troll, hater or entitled, and if I was to break NDA my word wouldn't be worth anything to those labeling others now.

     

    As people have said it's their money to do with as they wish.  If they want to play and this doesn't concern them more power to them, I hope the find a home in TESO.  However equally I can choose what to spend my money on and equally express my displeasure here at the current situation until MMORPG.com closes my account.

    Trust me, Zenimax doesn't need people defending their honor on internet forums.  I think they'll be OK regardless of the opinion of a video game forum one way or another.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    I'm sorry, I'm not even usually the type of person to make comments like this, but this article comes off as a desperate attempt to make as many excuses as possible to justify the need to pay for a feature that will not be available if you do not pay for it before preorders are no longer an option.

     

    If it was just a little feature it wouldn't matter, but in a universe like the Elder Scrolls, giving the feature for "characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose" as a preorder bonus is a complete and utter cash grab, and is totally unfair to those people who don't have the money to pay for the preorder right now but plan on buying and subscribing to the game down the road.

     

    I really don't see how you can argue that that is an okay bonus to add to preorder. It just isn't.

    Smile

  • CalvenCalven AarhusPosts: 151Member

    World of Warcraft's Collector's Edition did NOT include a race lock. In fact, it included only an in-game vanity pet. besides that, everyone who bought the game recieved the exact same product. The CE gave them several real life items instead. Now, tell me how you would have felt if WoW had locked a race, only able to play if you spent 20$ extra. Now, I'm all for paying the price for somebody else's work, but if the game box costs 49,99$ and the race and the other three items cost 20$ extra, then I must conclude that the developers used several years making these CE perks while spending only a few days or months making the entire world we can play in everything in it.  If that is the case then the game is hardly worth playing but you can be sure that the Imperial Race and the Horse will be marvelous!

    Race is not a vanity item. In WoW EVERY race has its own history, traits, cities and so on. They are unique. In ESO races are so important for everything that happens that you can't say that races doesn't matter.

    The main point in this is that companies now demand money for a game box upon its release, but will immediately block off some of the content and sell it to you as seperate content, even though the game just released. I don't find that okay. I don't believe that a company can deliver a good game if half the developers are working on the game, while the other half is working on content to be sold just after it's release.

  • SimsuSimsu Corvallis, ORPosts: 360Member Uncommon

    This setup screams of a "Subs Plus" payment model which I'll never ever support. They want to make the money off of subs and then sell extra things that are "optional," but may or may not be extremely handy to have (i.e. any race any faction).

    They have a right to sell their game anyway they want to, but that doesn't mean I have to support it with my money or my words - and I don't care who else does what - "Subs Plus" screams "we're gonna milk you for all the money we can" to me. Go Subs or go Cash Shop.

    Based on how it's starting out, I'd be amazed if they game didn't end up going F2P "soon" after launch. (When they've gotten as much sub money as they think the diehards will pay out.)

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 2,014Member Common

    Devs understand mmo players now.  We like to be first ones in.  We like mounts.  We like loot.  We like to have all the options available to us that are available to others.  And we will pay for it.

     

    But there is a limit to what we'll pay for without feeling like milked fools.  I think these devs are coming precariously close to the edge with this one.  

     

    Still, it's a tough business.  These games cost way too much to make now and the turnover is ridiculously high, often prompting a conversion to free to play for games that start off as subs.

     

    I'm on the fence about ESO.  I might or might not play.  If they're smart, they'll offer this option post-launch for less money on Amazon and Steam once the early adopter frenzy wears off, leaving them in need of more revenue.  In which case I might later pick it up for ten bucks over the cost of the standard edition or whatever and try it then.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,405Member Uncommon

    controversy?-srsly?

    i personally like all the editions -they seem fair.

    iam not a big fan of vanity pets- therefore i perhaps would of prefered -maybe a spacial 'spell' for your character-nothing too 'Op'...just something 'special' just like imperial to use while in starting zones...

    thats all i have to say on this- on a side note Blizzard had always done outstanding CE- from wow to starcraft2 into Diablo3...

    but i have ordered my ESO collectors- with no regrets!

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    I'm sorry, I'm not even usually the type of person to make comments like this, but this article comes off as a desperate attempt to make as many excuses as possible to justify the need to pay for a feature that will not be available if you do not pay for it before preorders are no longer an option.

     

    If it was just a little feature it wouldn't matter, but in a universe like the Elder Scrolls, giving the feature for "characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose" as a preorder bonus is a complete and utter cash grab, and is totally unfair to those people who don't have the money to pay for the preorder right now but plan on buying and subscribing to the game down the road.

     

    I really don't see ho you can argue that that is an okay bonus to add to preorder. It just isn't.

    These are my thoughts exactly. I have not been bashing on this game at all, even though I have (serious) doubts about some aspects of it recently.

    You have to realise this is not on the same level as some other random game with no franchise behind it trying to reel in players with pre-order bonuses.

    It's still a game in the Elder Scrolls series and these bonuses are things that go pretty deep, as they've been standardly available for previous games in the series. There is the distinct impression that loyal fans are being baited and hooked to pre-order the game while the NDA is still in effect and reviews are not possible.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

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