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I guess sub. based games truly are dead

YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?

This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.

So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.

Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.

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Comments

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Yeah, so far this game seems to be like any F2P or B2P game *(cash shop, exclusives) with a sub on top of it.
  • Raoul9753Raoul9753 SiegenPosts: 28Member

    The mount is not faster. You only get it for free.  "Explore Tamriel faster" is saying that you can move faster on a horse and you have it from the very beginning.

     

    The race isnt even that big of a deal, since the racial skills are not that impressive.

     

    Bonus experience if you play with a friend. That will become common work when the "get a friend to play the game"gets on.

     

    You guys are seriously overreactiong about a trivial thing.

     

     

  • SandioSandio BPosts: 11Member

    How many topics do you want to create?

    Lets see whats going on at the end..

     

    edit: +1 to Raoul

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?

    This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.

    So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.

    Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.

    The closest game to your definition would probably be FF14. It seems to be doing quite well. The next would probably be WoW. IT's still doing quite well.

    But there aren't many.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    This

     

    The only "bad" or "unusual" thing here is having the race exclusive to CE owners, but tbh I expect them to open that up to the rest of us eventually, it will either be a prestige class rewarded for completing the 50+ and the 50++ content, or (and I hope they dont go this route) a small micro-transaction (they did say services like race/name change)

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

    Any pre-order version.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Like SWTOR and how they had the VIP area with exclusive armor and weapons and the like?

    I mean honestly this isn't new.  And it surely isn't killing sub games.

    FFXIV doesn't sell exp boosts, nor does FFXI.  Let's see, wow is offering the ability to buy a level 90... so I mean the slippery slope sure is getting slippery there.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Why does it matter what the revenue model is, as long as you have fun when you play the game?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

    Any pre-order version.

     

    That costs you no extra money at all

  • rockin_uforockin_ufo St. Paul, MNPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

    Any pre-order version.

     

    That costs you no extra money at all

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
    It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
    'cause everyone thinks they're right,
    And nobody thinks that there just might
    Be more than one road to our final destination--

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Like SWTOR and how they had the VIP area with exclusive armor and weapons and the like?

    I mean honestly this isn't new.  And it surely isn't killing sub games.

    FFXIV doesn't sell exp boosts, nor does FFXI.  Let's see, wow is offering the ability to buy a level 90... so I mean the slippery slope sure is getting slippery there.

    The difference here is that Firor explicitly stated that they chose P2P because they didn't think pay-gates and cash shop "nickel and dime" methods were a good fit for the game, as opposed to B2P or some other sub-free option. He also said no cash shop or mtx, but they're doing mtx and and will have a shop where they sill account services and "fun stuff" (whatever that is). If they would just be honest and up front about what they're doing I wouldn't care how they monetized.

    It's not much different than TOR, except we see that TOR only became really successful after they dropped the box fee and made the sub optional. After that they became one of the most successful cash shops in the last year.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    How many games can you think of where the collector's edition and/or pre-order bonuses stayed exclusive forever, rather than just for a period of time before an opportunity to buy them separately was introduced?  This likely isn't a case of getting exclusive content, it's a case of getting earlier access by showing earlier support.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • MpfiveMpfive LondonPosts: 295Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    How many games can you think of where the collector's edition and/or pre-order bonuses stayed exclusive forever, rather than just for a period of time before an opportunity to buy them separately was introduced?  This likely isn't a case of getting exclusive content, it's a case of getting earlier access by showing earlier support.

    Indeed, usually a little after launch you have the option to upgrade the standard to CE, they done it in SWTOR and rift:)

  • rockin_uforockin_ufo St. Paul, MNPosts: 377Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    How many games can you think of where the collector's edition and/or pre-order bonuses stayed exclusive forever, rather than just for a period of time before an opportunity to buy them separately was introduced?  This likely isn't a case of getting exclusive content, it's a case of getting earlier access by showing earlier support.

    So I have to pay more to play a race. I love this F2P game...oh wait.

    Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
    It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
    'cause everyone thinks they're right,
    And nobody thinks that there just might
    Be more than one road to our final destination--

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

    Any pre-order version.

     

    That costs you no extra money at all

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    There is no imperial faction, there's an imperial race that you can only access by buying the CE, it states in the FAQ you can upgrade to the CE version at any time you want post launch and unlock all the digital CE items.

     

    You can still play with friends you might be restricted on YOUR racial choice but there's no restriction on your faction choice.

     

    What I think your trying to ask, is how will you be able to unlock races for every faction? Truth is I have no idea, but neither do you or the OP. For all we know completing a factions story line could open that faction's races (a bit like swtor does now with no charge) and completing both the 50+ and 50++ (the solo end game) content could open up ALL races including the imperials. That's as safe and accurate assumption as it being hidden behind a pay wall

     

     

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by muffins89
    collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

    Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

    Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

    Any pre-order version.

     

    That costs you no extra money at all

    So explain to me how if I buy this game a month down the line (for obvious reasons like making sure the game actually has substance *cough*NDA hiding a lot of info* and me not being able to set down a 60$ investment. How will I, dear sir, be able to play with friends in another race or get the Imperial faction?

    Play with friends in any faction by making a character of one of that factions races.

    The Imperial race you shouldn't feel entitled to at all. As of now, the only people playing as an Imperial will be those who have invested more money than you were willing to. You may be able to unlock it later, but that's a chance you'll have to take in order to play it safe and wait to see how the game is.

  • jgankumjgankum Alexandria, VAPosts: 153Member


    Originally posted by Yamota
    The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions.

    Not at all. I don't pay a subscription for "fairness". I pay the sub for professionally developed content. Most of the free MMOs I have played get stale after a few days.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Gilllean

    I agree and this was a bad move from Zenimax I don't know who they hired as a marketing leading but he is a idiot .

    First Game always was looking bad. 90 % of beta testers bashed the game.  In official gameplay game was looking horrible. Witch started the holy war if ESO will fail or not . 

    Now they started Pre order   game is under NDA  most of people don't know anything about the game.

    PACK and pre order give a clear  thought that game will have a cash shop.

    With race Treasure map.  I'm rely disappointed.

    I'm not ready to give 54 Euro or  75$$  if you're from EU for something I never seen Oh wait I've seen a cinematic and a few game plays COOL take my money ZENIMAX are you retarded

    90% of people who are willing to violate the NDA bashing the game =/= 90% of all those who actually played bashing the game.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • HermodHermod HarrogatePosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by jgankum

     I don't pay a subscription for "fairness". I pay the sub for professionally developed content.

    This

  • CalvenCalven AarhusPosts: 151Member

    At first I was mostly surprised by how these pre-order bonuses effectively cast aside the lore they build the game upon. But what I'm most surprised about is how people willingly throw money at developers for extra items they should be entitled to when they bought the game. I'm actually quite stunned by people who defend this development of buying content that should be in the game box. Why do you want to pay more.. for something you should be owning already? Why? Why on earth would you want to lose money that way? You should say "I will buy the game and be able to play everything in it, because that is what I've paid for. I will not accept that the developers restrict parts of the game I've already purchased and demand that I pay additional fees to unlock these features"

    Why do you pay extra money for something you should be having in the standard box?

    CE should offer real lige, tangible items that only they can have. I don't mind them getting fluff items as long as everyone else who also paid for the game can buy them in-game, for in-game currencies, at high prices. That way they remain rare and exclusive. But races are NOT vanity nor fluff items. In a game such as Elder Scrolls races are undoubtedly an important part of the lore. Everything involves the differences and conflicts between races. By excluding everyone else from a race, even though they paid for the game, ESO can no longer claim to be a subscription based game. It is, instead, a subscription game with limited content which can be unlocked by paying more money.

     

    I'm still baffled by the people who seemingly cannot fathom how they are entitled to the game and all its content upon purchasing it. Can anyone tell me why you'd want to pay more when you should be getting it with the standard edition?

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    Um no, you're wrong. There are plenty of other sub games with exclusive perks for CE editions.

    Liberated Borg anyone?

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,209Member Uncommon

    Give the people a game that is actually worth their time, has some depth, exploring and is a real adventure and everyone will gladly pay for it.

    Unfortunately, the industry does not get this and ten years after WoW the investors still think that they can catch a slice with another clone.

    I guess its not that people want F2P in first place, its mostly that they dont want to pay for the crap that gets released.

    image
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