Originally posted by muffins89 collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.
Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...
Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game
There is three methods of payment for an MMO
F2P
B2P
P2P
For the first 2, having specific unique race and other exclusivity is important, it makes people spend more money, its games for the Have and Have not.
P2P is games with a SUB , it means you pay monthly fees to be granted access to every single content provided by the Game
Do you get it now, you pay to access content, all of the content for a flat fee !!
When you are locked from content in an Sub game, that means that nothing in the game will be safe from getting locked in the future. Think about it, 3 month down the line, to access the 3rd level of this dungeon, you have to upgrade your account to Founder's level, its only an $5 dollar upgrade to your account, then 6 month down the line, to have access to cross faction , you only have to upgrade your account for a measly $2 dollars to the Mercenary pack.
These ideas shouldn't exist in an Sub game, it exists in an F2P and B2P to generate profit for the companies, it shouldn't exist in an SUB game.
Why you might ask, its because you are already paying monthly access fees, so that you don't get nickel and dimed for content.
Locking a race is being nickel and dimed for content, and its just the beginning.
I hope your wallet is big enough
Personally I don't care how good this game is, their business model just muddy the water so badly that I would rather play other games without having to worry about always having to pay more just to be on par with everyone else.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Originally posted by muffins89 collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.
Here it is in a nut shell.
Everyone is offered the same pre-order choices.
If you want the fluff that they offer in the higher costing pre-orders then buy it. If you don't want the fluff in the higher costing pre-orders then don't buy it. Don't complain about what your "neighbor" buys, you made your decision for what ever reason... live with it.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
It's already been confirmed by the FAQ that the Imperial DLC will be made available at the ESO Store after launch. I also highly doubt the Explorer's Pack won't be made available at the ESO Store after launch as well. What will be next though? Thieves' Guild DLC? Dark Brotherhood DLC? Housing DLC? So much for Firor's "no pay-gates in ESO because we are a P2P game" crap talk.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
Lucioon is right. Vote with your wallet and hit them where it hurts. My guess is this game will be f2p in 6 months anyway.
They are ethnic. Just look here. It's the daggerfall covenant talking about the other races. And all the other factions do the same.
And for example, one of the quests I managed to play in Cologne contained an Argonian in the Aldmeri Dominion whom my Wood Elf was confused to find there. The only response I had was "What's an Argonian doing outside of The Ebonheart Pack". She replied that she didn't follow the pack. So if I play an Argonian my character would still be surprised. Then there are quests where you interact with Queen Ayrenn too. Why should she trust the enemies?
Regarding the gear switching mechanic, look here. You can clearly see a low level character with shit gear being transformed into the "badass" looking gear.
And about the CE, it's not that it includes extra stuff, it's that it isn't exclusive. Anyone can buy it even if they only purchase the standard edition. So they can just upgrade their version of the game and get access to all that stuff. Just like how you would purchase a cool skin for your armour in a cash shop. Purchasing the physical Imperial Edition doesn't grant you anything exclusive other than the physical items.
If you join TESO a year from now, you can just pay $20 and get the same content the CE people got. So it's like the cashshop in Guildwars 2 where you could purchase gear skins.
And the reason to why subs don't work longterm is because game companies are doing "this" to their fanbase. They're allowing everyone to pay for convenience and it hurts the longevity of the game. People would make alts if they wanted to play with their friends on another faction. Now they don't have to and that will shorten the longevity for the game. Same with the horses and rings of Mara, those were expensive items in the game according to Paul Sage, but now you can just pay 20 bucks and get them instantly.
Mate, you need to start reading my posts instead of just jumping to conclusions. I provide sources, you provide assumptions. But I'm not surprised. It's obvious that you favour the F2P business model.
Taking the most important point first, you are also providing assumptions, in regard to my preferences. I only play games that include a sub option, and I always sub. It's a better experience. I just don't get bothered by the games including other revenue mechanisms that I am in no way required to use.
I don't actually like them getting rid of the race lock. I never claimed I did. But it doesn't violate the lore, every faction has members of races present, as you point out in your example, who aren't from the three "primary" races for that faction. I can separate out whether I like something from whether it is appropriate.
Given the way they implemented races, it really doesn't matter anyway, because it appears to be the case that (narratively speaking) the game never recognizes your race. No reports from convention gameplay or official releases so much as imply that the game gives your race narrative weight. Properly implemented races would include things like Argonians not liking Dunmer very much even though they are allied, and Altmer looking down on any character who isn't a High Elf (including their Bosmer and Khajit allies.) They probably determined doing such an implementation would cost more than it was worth. Perfect costs a lot more than good enough.
As for being able to upgrade later, that isn't really a cash shop thing per se, it is pretty normal for late adopters to be able to pay a fee for access to any digital items that were included in a collector's edition.
Originally posted by Lucioon
P2P is games with a SUB , it means you pay monthly fees to be granted access to every single content provided by the Game
You are incorrect. There is no guarantee that you get anything but access to the game for the price of a sub. It is not inherent in the model that everything be included in that price. P2P is about not letting anyone in the door who refuses to pay the access fee, not about letting everyone who pays the access fee into the VIP room.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
Very well put. The point is not the imperial race or a special mount, the point is that sub. based game gives access to everything for everyone. And that is not bloody entitlement, that is what you get for paying a box price and a fixed monthly fee. The way sub. based games have always worked like.
And with this debacle I can fucking guarantee you that races, weapons, spells, quests and all kind of goodies will be put in the cash shop. Effectively turning this game into your regular F2P game, except you have to pay a box price, and sub. fee. Idiotic. Why would I then not just play F2P game then?
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
As for being able to upgrade later, that isn't really a cash shop thing per se, it is pretty normal for late adopters to be able to pay a fee for access to any digital items that were included in a collector's edition.
Actually, that's exactly the definition of a cash shop. A shop in which you can pay additional cash to unlock content otherwise not available.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?
Probably to discuss shady business practices in the MMORPG industry. What's your AGENDA?
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?
Probably to discuss shady business practices in the MMORPG industry. What's your AGENDA?
To PAY for and FUND a AAA product that is entertaining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?
Probably to discuss shady business practices in the MMORPG industry. What's your AGENDA?
To PAY for and FUND a AAA product that is entertaining.
I have to admit, I'm a bit confused. Does paying for a AAA product that you very likely haven't played yet somehow lend more weight to your opinion when discussing MMORPG monetization methods and business practices? It could potentially provide you with experience in consumerism, although that's not what's being discussed. In fact, I'm not even sure how posting on a forum helps fund a AAA product that is entertaining. Pre-ordering would help monetize an already funded product and you could certainly pay for the pre-order. Oh well, I'm probably destined to remain confused here.
My "agenda" (gees) is to be able to play an MMO in the Elder Scrolls world and not to have to worry about paying for that race, or this armor or that spell with real money. I want to pay for the box, a sub fee and then have everything in the game accessable, just like everything was accessable to me in Skyrim.
Only acceptable exception would be a one time fee for an expansion, released every 6-12 months.
This is how sub. based MMOs used to be like so what I am asking for is nothing revolutionary.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
Can't handle it??? I'm am handling it perfect by calling out the bullshit. I don't worship the developers...I know first hand the game is not perfect. But this CE is not unprecedented.... not even close.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
What you described isn't socialism. Not even close. What you described is the American perception of socialism as being the idea of equal destribution of everything. Socialism is the idea of placing the wealth in the hands of those who create it, the workers. The workers are the employees, those who do the actual labour, produce things. Even capitalism agrees that labour is the essence of all economics. Labour determines the value of a product and ultimately labour is the source to a wealthy society. Socialism says that the wealth, however, has been stolen from its rightful owners, the workers, and is now in the hands of the capitalistic employers who hoard the wealth and refuses to part with it. Socialism believes, that if the wealth is returned to those who actually own it, then society will prosper.
If you don't know what you're talking about then keep your mouth shut. Don't use misinformed perceptions to strenghten your arguement
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
What you described isn't socialism. Not even close. What you described is the American perception of socialism as being the idea of equal destribution of everything. Socialism is the idea of placing the wealth in the hands of those who create it, the workers. The workers are the employees, those who do the actual labour, produce things. Even capitalism agrees that labour is the essence of all economics. Labour determines the value of a product and ultimately labour is the source to a wealthy society. Socialism says that the wealth, however, has been stolen from its rightful owners, the workers, and is now in the hands of the capitalistic employers who hoard the wealth and refuses to part with it. Socialism believes, that if the wealth is returned to those who actually own it, then society will prosper.
If you don't know what you're talking about then keep your mouth shut. Don't use misinformed perceptions to strenghten your arguement
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
Very well put. The point is not the imperial race or a special mount, the point is that sub. based game gives access to everything for everyone. And that is not bloody entitlement, that is what you get for paying a box price and a fixed monthly fee. The way sub. based games have always worked like.
I am not sure how long you have been playing MMORPGs or how many CEs you have bought but that is an inaccurate statement.
Most traditional sub based AAA CE packages have had exclusive content. At least all the ones I have purchased over the last 11 years.
The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.
This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.
If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.
If you can't afford them - do something about that situation.
If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.
You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.
They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.
In other words...grow up.
First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker.
I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops.
Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
What you described isn't socialism. Not even close. What you described is the American perception of socialism as being the idea of equal destribution of everything. Socialism is the idea of placing the wealth in the hands of those who create it, the workers. The workers are the employees, those who do the actual labour, produce things. Even capitalism agrees that labour is the essence of all economics. Labour determines the value of a product and ultimately labour is the source to a wealthy society. Socialism says that the wealth, however, has been stolen from its rightful owners, the workers, and is now in the hands of the capitalistic employers who hoard the wealth and refuses to part with it. Socialism believes, that if the wealth is returned to those who actually own it, then society will prosper.
If you don't know what you're talking about then keep your mouth shut. Don't use misinformed perceptions to strenghten your arguement
Owned...
Owned... hehe. Ok I guess this capitalist worker will just have to live with that defeat all the way to the bank and with my CE copy of ESO.....??
The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting
.....
So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.
Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.
Junk food vendors will always have more customers. And overall make more money. Nothing to wonder here. But fortunately there are still a lot of people that prefer to pay to eat well. And restaurants that make quality dishes. And in this case ammount to pay is real bargain for eating well. Compared to free junk food that is really what name says. Junk.
You're confusing Consumerism with Capitalism. Consumerists whine and hope for change. Capitalism is simpler: buy / do not buy... let your money do the talking.
No it's part of the capitalist system. If they don't know why we are unhappy over this issue in particular there could be any number of reasons why people don't buy ESO. If there is a clear backlash over this then they will know that this particular move cost them a lot of sales. Why do you think companies do those exit surveys? They want to know why you don't like their product. It's useful information to them.
No it's part of the capitalist system. If they don't know why we are unhappy over this issue in particular there could be any number of reasons why people don't buy ESO. If there is a clear backlash over this then they will know that this particular move cost them a lot of sales. Why do you think companies do those exit surveys? They want to know why you don't like their product. It's useful information to them.
They are a lot more likely to pay attention to exit interviews that to anything here though. If someone never buys the game at all, they have no way of telling what the real reason is. All they will ever get is claimed reasons from the small handful of people in places like this, and let's face it, a lot of the people up in arms over this have post histories which don't exactly paint the picture of somebody who was likely to be buying the game even before this "controversy."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Havekk Its just note of that "I want everything" mentality that's ruining games to begin with.
It's not a ''I want everything'' mentality coming from the players. The freeking president of the company (Matt Firor) said that the subscription would give you everything... That is what he said a few months back... So I am wrong to think that the sub would give me access to everything... when that's his exact words... ?
Your mentality is the one ruining games... because of people like you we have subs + cash shop...
They are a lot more likely to pay attention to exit interviews that to anything here though. If someone never buys the game at all, they have no way of telling what the real reason is. All they will ever get is claimed reasons from the small handful of people in places like this, and let's face it, a lot of the people up in arms over this have post histories which don't exactly paint the picture of somebody who was likely to be buying the game even before this "controversy."
Yeah it'll definitely only matter if they don't sell as much as they expect. To be be honest it's not that much money. If I really loved ESO rather than just being slightly interested in it I'd bite the bullet. I may still even buy it if the betas really blow me away.
I just think it's irritating because if they get away with this I know we will see useful game-effecting pre-order and CE exclusives in a lot of games from now on.
Comments
There is three methods of payment for an MMO
F2P
B2P
P2P
For the first 2, having specific unique race and other exclusivity is important, it makes people spend more money, its games for the Have and Have not.
P2P is games with a SUB , it means you pay monthly fees to be granted access to every single content provided by the Game
Do you get it now, you pay to access content, all of the content for a flat fee !!
When you are locked from content in an Sub game, that means that nothing in the game will be safe from getting locked in the future. Think about it, 3 month down the line, to access the 3rd level of this dungeon, you have to upgrade your account to Founder's level, its only an $5 dollar upgrade to your account, then 6 month down the line, to have access to cross faction , you only have to upgrade your account for a measly $2 dollars to the Mercenary pack.
These ideas shouldn't exist in an Sub game, it exists in an F2P and B2P to generate profit for the companies, it shouldn't exist in an SUB game.
Why you might ask, its because you are already paying monthly access fees, so that you don't get nickel and dimed for content.
Locking a race is being nickel and dimed for content, and its just the beginning.
I hope your wallet is big enough
Personally I don't care how good this game is, their business model just muddy the water so badly that I would rather play other games without having to worry about always having to pay more just to be on par with everyone else.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Here it is in a nut shell.
Everyone is offered the same pre-order choices.
If you want the fluff that they offer in the higher costing pre-orders then buy it. If you don't want the fluff in the higher costing pre-orders then don't buy it. Don't complain about what your "neighbor" buys, you made your decision for what ever reason... live with it.
Ratero.
What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??
Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth
F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,
Sub Based games does not
You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race
How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here
the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.
If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.
I surely hope your Wallet is big enough
This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
It's already been confirmed by the FAQ that the Imperial DLC will be made available at the ESO Store after launch. I also highly doubt the Explorer's Pack won't be made available at the ESO Store after launch as well. What will be next though? Thieves' Guild DLC? Dark Brotherhood DLC? Housing DLC? So much for Firor's "no pay-gates in ESO because we are a P2P game" crap talk.
Lucioon is right. Vote with your wallet and hit them where it hurts. My guess is this game will be f2p in 6 months anyway.
Taking the most important point first, you are also providing assumptions, in regard to my preferences. I only play games that include a sub option, and I always sub. It's a better experience. I just don't get bothered by the games including other revenue mechanisms that I am in no way required to use.
I don't actually like them getting rid of the race lock. I never claimed I did. But it doesn't violate the lore, every faction has members of races present, as you point out in your example, who aren't from the three "primary" races for that faction. I can separate out whether I like something from whether it is appropriate.
Given the way they implemented races, it really doesn't matter anyway, because it appears to be the case that (narratively speaking) the game never recognizes your race. No reports from convention gameplay or official releases so much as imply that the game gives your race narrative weight. Properly implemented races would include things like Argonians not liking Dunmer very much even though they are allied, and Altmer looking down on any character who isn't a High Elf (including their Bosmer and Khajit allies.) They probably determined doing such an implementation would cost more than it was worth. Perfect costs a lot more than good enough.
As for being able to upgrade later, that isn't really a cash shop thing per se, it is pretty normal for late adopters to be able to pay a fee for access to any digital items that were included in a collector's edition.
You are incorrect. There is no guarantee that you get anything but access to the game for the price of a sub. It is not inherent in the model that everything be included in that price. P2P is about not letting anyone in the door who refuses to pay the access fee, not about letting everyone who pays the access fee into the VIP room.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.
All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.
But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.
Very well put. The point is not the imperial race or a special mount, the point is that sub. based game gives access to everything for everyone. And that is not bloody entitlement, that is what you get for paying a box price and a fixed monthly fee. The way sub. based games have always worked like.
And with this debacle I can fucking guarantee you that races, weapons, spells, quests and all kind of goodies will be put in the cash shop. Effectively turning this game into your regular F2P game, except you have to pay a box price, and sub. fee. Idiotic. Why would I then not just play F2P game then?
My gaming blog
Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.
My gaming blog
Actually, that's exactly the definition of a cash shop. A shop in which you can pay additional cash to unlock content otherwise not available.
You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?
Probably to discuss shady business practices in the MMORPG industry. What's your AGENDA?
To PAY for and FUND a AAA product that is entertaining.
I have to admit, I'm a bit confused. Does paying for a AAA product that you very likely haven't played yet somehow lend more weight to your opinion when discussing MMORPG monetization methods and business practices? It could potentially provide you with experience in consumerism, although that's not what's being discussed. In fact, I'm not even sure how posting on a forum helps fund a AAA product that is entertaining. Pre-ordering would help monetize an already funded product and you could certainly pay for the pre-order. Oh well, I'm probably destined to remain confused here.
My "agenda" (gees) is to be able to play an MMO in the Elder Scrolls world and not to have to worry about paying for that race, or this armor or that spell with real money. I want to pay for the box, a sub fee and then have everything in the game accessable, just like everything was accessable to me in Skyrim.
Only acceptable exception would be a one time fee for an expansion, released every 6-12 months.
This is how sub. based MMOs used to be like so what I am asking for is nothing revolutionary.
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Can't handle it??? I'm am handling it perfect by calling out the bullshit. I don't worship the developers...I know first hand the game is not perfect. But this CE is not unprecedented.... not even close.
What you described isn't socialism. Not even close. What you described is the American perception of socialism as being the idea of equal destribution of everything. Socialism is the idea of placing the wealth in the hands of those who create it, the workers. The workers are the employees, those who do the actual labour, produce things. Even capitalism agrees that labour is the essence of all economics. Labour determines the value of a product and ultimately labour is the source to a wealthy society. Socialism says that the wealth, however, has been stolen from its rightful owners, the workers, and is now in the hands of the capitalistic employers who hoard the wealth and refuses to part with it. Socialism believes, that if the wealth is returned to those who actually own it, then society will prosper.
If you don't know what you're talking about then keep your mouth shut. Don't use misinformed perceptions to strenghten your arguement
Owned...
My gaming blog
I am not sure how long you have been playing MMORPGs or how many CEs you have bought but that is an inaccurate statement.
Most traditional sub based AAA CE packages have had exclusive content. At least all the ones I have purchased over the last 11 years.
Owned... hehe. Ok I guess this capitalist worker will just have to live with that defeat all the way to the bank and with my CE copy of ESO.....??
Junk food vendors will always have more customers. And overall make more money. Nothing to wonder here. But fortunately there are still a lot of people that prefer to pay to eat well. And restaurants that make quality dishes. And in this case ammount to pay is real bargain for eating well. Compared to free junk food that is really what name says. Junk.
No it's part of the capitalist system. If they don't know why we are unhappy over this issue in particular there could be any number of reasons why people don't buy ESO. If there is a clear backlash over this then they will know that this particular move cost them a lot of sales. Why do you think companies do those exit surveys? They want to know why you don't like their product. It's useful information to them.
They are a lot more likely to pay attention to exit interviews that to anything here though. If someone never buys the game at all, they have no way of telling what the real reason is. All they will ever get is claimed reasons from the small handful of people in places like this, and let's face it, a lot of the people up in arms over this have post histories which don't exactly paint the picture of somebody who was likely to be buying the game even before this "controversy."
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
It's not a ''I want everything'' mentality coming from the players. The freeking president of the company (Matt Firor) said that the subscription would give you everything... That is what he said a few months back... So I am wrong to think that the sub would give me access to everything... when that's his exact words... ?
Your mentality is the one ruining games... because of people like you we have subs + cash shop...
Yeah it'll definitely only matter if they don't sell as much as they expect. To be be honest it's not that much money. If I really loved ESO rather than just being slightly interested in it I'd bite the bullet. I may still even buy it if the betas really blow me away.
I just think it's irritating because if they get away with this I know we will see useful game-effecting pre-order and CE exclusives in a lot of games from now on.