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Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

The big issue:  This isn't a F2P game!  If it was you could get away with charging extra for an entire race, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE.  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this - what is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

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Comments

  • zimikezimike Dayton, TXPosts: 129Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis

    I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

     

    Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this!!  What is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

     

    And the BIGGEST ISSUE:  This isn't a F2P game!!!  If it was you could get away with this, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE!  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

     

    You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

    You may be going a bit over the top, but you have some points. Surely they have resources invested in a good PR and marketing team, lets hope they use them wisely.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    And the fun has just begun ...wait until folks get tired of running around in game looking like they have a carrot stuck up their ass
  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member

    As long as Gamers keep allowing companies to do this, they will keep doing it.

     

    Same with DLC.  Look at Rome 2. Upon release it also had a DLC at release.  Which should never ever happen but because games allow it, these companies are going to keep doing it.   It is unacceptable to release a game and a DLC on the same day, that is a huge kick in the teeth to your fans but games do it all the time because WE gamers have accepted it and allowed it to happen.

     

    Same thing here. A box sale and P2P should not have extra locked content that requires more fees but since other companies have done it and it has gone well enough others copy it.

    We gamers are to blame for the sad state the current gaming industry is in.  We allowed this to happen, now we have to deal with it.

    Sooner or Later

  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon
    If I read it correctly, people who buy the CE can play any race in any alliance. Wait til that one hits,

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • Keldor837Keldor837 Syracuse, NYPosts: 148Member Uncommon

    I understand your outrage over the matter and share it. But the fact is that all you're doing by posting this in this way is subjecting yourself to the trolls and fanboi's. There's been enough online blogs and forums raging about the individual pre-order incentives and people crying foul because the developers have been promising one thing while the higher-ups in the company have decided to do another.

    Something to keep in mind is that while the developers may very well have not wanted pay-gates or such things. It's the people higher up that control the money flow that gauged whether they'll make more money in both short-term and long-term from such decisions. Whether it was the right/best one will be determined eventually, as of right now the cat's out of the bag. What you should really be focusing on is pointing out the disparity between what the developers want and are trying to do and what the investor's and accountants need. Ultimately, it's a business looking to make money. They likely have a whole department of people that analyze the market beyond simply box sales, and look at company net gains and losses. If the companies that are setting these pay gates are making a profit and the outrage caused by their under-handedness isn't outweighing the gains. Then of course a company that's going to break out in the online gaming community is going to follow suit.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by mari3k
    [mod edit]

     

    This is the problem though, the pre-order bonuses are significant, more so than usual for a subs game. It's not just the usual fluff, if you don't pre-order you will miss out on content options and apparently a whole race if you don't pre-order the CE.

    im not too happy about this, I'm still not sure if I want to buy this game now at all.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by mari3k
    [mod edit]

     

    If it has more than 20 hours of content its more than worth the box price (which included the first month playtime), most single player games charge the same box price for less game, so pre-ordering most mmo's is fine

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    Agree. They completely went full retard with these decisions. I liked the fact that races were locked and now if I don't pre-order the game or buy the CE I'm going to be a second class citizen within the game? Seriously, fuck that. This is going to turn so many people off the game.

     

     

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    OP has points.
  • StimzStimz Claysville, PAPosts: 76Member
    but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

    image

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Stimz
    but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

    So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

     

  • KatillaKatilla Nashua, NHPosts: 682Member Uncommon
    on 2/2/14 Target is selling pre-order cards that not only get you beta access, but you can also be any race/class as well and its only $1 to get one. They sent the wrong ones to the store without the beta code scratch off and had to recall them until 2/2 when they ship the cards....just sayin'
  • StimzStimz Claysville, PAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Stimz
    but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

    So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

     

    It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

    image

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Zenimax will feel justified when some people actually buy into that.  Then they will be able to point and say, "see, players want that and are willing to pay a lot extra for it".

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon

    It takes work for a normal person to make a decision this bad, its effortless for this development team however. it proves everything they have said about the reasons for using this piss poor DaoC design is a complete JOKE.

    We could have had a real TES MMO if it wasn't in the hands of Firor.

    No closed faction lands. No hidden away PvP land to fight over, instead have an actual world at war. No idiotic racial locks. None of this "class skill" crap and have real freedom. Some kind of in game "foundry" to build content with. Combat that hits home. complete open world (no, part of the world being open is not open world). No crafting skill limits.

    Now we get all the DaoC design limits, F2P style perks that go around them and a ton of time and resources spent trying to make the game still seem like an SRPG with voice-overs......

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Lol! People preordering a video game. Some things never change.
    About playable race, who cares, does it really change the game? Is one race better than another stat wise? If it is just a skin, wtfc!

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,177Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stimz
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Stimz
    but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

    So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

     

    It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

    Can you name another subscription based game that offered an exclusive race only to special edition buyers? And no, you down playing it means nothing to what is being spoken about which is having to spend more for the FULL GAME which seems to only be available to those that buy the imperial edition.

    Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • ZieglerZiegler nashville, TNPosts: 159Member

    I tried...I tried really hard.....

     

    but nope...I just...DGAF

    This game has been been a trainwreck in the works ever since the legal battles about it half a dozen years ago and looks like it is gaining speed coming round the bend. Casey Jones leading the Marketing team?

     

     

  • ZieglerZiegler nashville, TNPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by JJ82

    Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

    As much as I loath NW and Cryptic, in due fairness...the "HotN Drow" was just a reskin of the normal drow that others could play 60 days after launch....

     

    Hmm....wonder how soon "normal" subscribers will be able to  purchase an Imperial after launch.

     

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 875Member Uncommon

    OP has points. If this were a F2P or B2P title, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But pay-gating non-fluff content in a P2P game? That's BS. The whole reason people prefer the sub model is because that stuff isn't supposed to happen. Everyone pays the same, everyone gets equal access.

    It doesn't bother me much because I don't really care about the game, but while the OP is taking things perhaps a bit overboard, I can definitely understand why he's upset.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    I just can't comprehend all of the whining. During the beta time period, there seems to be an overwhelming majority that disliked the fact that they couldn't play every race in any alliance. Perhaps they actually listened to the beta response and made a compromise with the preorder process giving people what they wanted? If this makes the majority happy for a change in direction, isn't that a good thing? Who cares if you think it is a cash grab or a lie. Again its the same question. If they are accommodating a request from beta feedback and reacting to some negative press, is it not good that they reversed course to some degree? Is this not  more in line with the single player games now?????

    There Is Always Hope!

  • StimzStimz Claysville, PAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Stimz
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Stimz
    but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

    So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

     

    It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

    Can you name another subscription based game that offered an exclusive race only to special edition buyers? And no, you down playing it means nothing to what is being spoken about which is having to spend more for the FULL GAME which seems to only be available to those that buy the imperial edition.

    Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

    I guess you guys are not the type of people who feel," Well, I paid a couple bucks more, maybe I should get something special", Types. Personally I feel like the collectors edition is well worth it, I will never touch the imperial of course, I just want the xp rings, and the nice 5 day early access. I mean... I feel like if a game is going to give something special, it shouldn't be able to be achieved again. If I paid 30 extra dollars, I want to have that item, I don't want people who buy the game 2 years down the road to have it, I'M a founder, not them. But I guess you guys don't understand that somehow. I mean...  I think its the coolest thing ever, and I'm actually really excited for it.

      Of course, Like I said, You can always upgrade to the CE, so its not working the way I wanted it to, but at least I can be an Argonian no matter what Alliance Im in, C:

    image

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member

    Seems pretty well-received on Facebook. So it might turn out okay. The race is just a skin anyway, isn't it?

     

    Play or do not. It's not really a big deal for me.

    image

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,943Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis

    I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

     

    Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this!!  What is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

     

    And the BIGGEST ISSUE:  This isn't a F2P game!!!  If it was you could get away with this, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE!  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

     

    You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

    I wanted to be JEDI

     

    F#$@ Zenimax

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • seafirexseafirex gatineau, QCPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    Give it time they will let you experience the imperial even without buying  the CE version, after a while that the game is out they will put it in with a patch .

    Because too much people would have complain about it. People will be angry at them for making them spend money on the CE version of the game just to find out that after 6 months or 1 year down the road it was given to all, the dev will apologies and give the players some treats to forget the mistake.  Could be a mount or something else, like all of them do when they mess up something.

    Typical mmorpg advertisement more they get attention the better it is for them .  I could be wrong but i am pretty sure at this point something similar will play out.

    Let's give them time to sort out issue's. 

    Personally i am not getting the game when it comes out for now at least. There is a few thing i need them to fix first of all before i buy it. But i can understand the frustration some people have i would have loved also to be able to create one of those imperials.

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