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Should gamers organize? Gamer union(s)?
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nah ... only whales are exploited because they have no self-control.
How can it be exploitation when it is a clear case of i am willingly given up some money for an entertainment product? If i don't like such entertainment product, i can easily go watch tv, which is free (with ads).
Games maybe free, but your computer is not...unless someone else is paying for it. Then that's not whales providing the welfare (especially if you play THAT many MMOs).....................
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
When the hell did this forum become a Republican convention, anyway?
When it sounds exactly like it with the cascade of anti-union sentiment. I mean it really looks like that type of convention! lol
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Marriage is a union.
touché
I think we should leave politics out of this though. (and I mean on both sides of the argument)
This is about a gamer's union not about old inflexible political positions that just derail the actual discussion.
Well, the whales are certainly paying part of it .. don't tell me game development does not cost money, and don't tell me someone else is not paying for it .. when i play for free.
Point is if players aren't sharing the load, and passing the buck onto whales, they're just there to take. And if players are only there to take -- and not contribute to the game's development -- they're essentially bottom feeders.
Furthermore, devs don't differentiate the player base from those who play for free and those who pay (except for a very few P2W games), so all the forum screaming for balance or FoTM stuff, further causes problems as those players will just use, then discard the game afterwards like spent toilet tissue. There's no loyalty, as there's yet another freebie to partake in and repeat the same process, too.
Not what's best for a long term MMO.
F2P as a concept is neat, it doesn't build a loyal community willing to stick with the game for the long haul, though. Games need that to not be dead in 90 days to a year.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
nah ...
LOTR is f2p, last way longer than 90 days with new content.
Ditto for DDO
Ditto for Marvel Heroes (just release new content)
Ditto for STO (just have new featured mission released)
many other examples .... so apparently either f2p does build a loyal community, or a loyal community is not that important anyway. Take your pick!
Personally i have zero loyalty to games, but i find many f2p fun MMO last very long and i can occasionally go back to play a bit. Heck, i even level up captain america after i "finished" marvel heroes with daredevil.
Totally free fun for what ... 64 hours total so far? I doubt f2p is "bad" for companies since they are making more money out of it, and certainly it is not "bad" for me.
GTA has a community. Loyal and engaged. Franchises are made with community.
Maybe someday the entire free 2 play industry will make as much as GTA does in a weekend.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
By no means am I anti-union. Its just a plausible thing for gaming because you can't enforce it. There are companies who I refuse to buy games from but I wouldn't try to make anyone else do the same. Now I might tell them why I do it and encourage them to consider it. I never judge a person by what kind of games they play thought that is just silly.
For the people who are talking down labor unions those same unions are partially responsible for a lot of the success America had in the early 1900s. Before that there was no labor laws and 3 or 4 people made up the 1% of the wealthy instead of several 100s. Look at working conditions at the steel mills in the beginning of the 20th century. Or child labor for that matter. Sure they have overstepped bounds in Detroit, especially automotive union. Plenty of unions do a pretty good job and make sure that people have a good wage.
There is nothing inconsistent about admitting that something had a useful purpose in the past while saying that it no longer does in the present.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
It's an interesting idea, but without any sort of enforcement is would be unworkable. There will always be people making bad choices with their money, and people/companies who are very smart at getting them to make those bad choices.
If enough of us totally stopped playing games with cash shops, etc., and then some company made a decent game without them (and it was a big success), then the message might get through. It wouldn't stop the cash shops in most games, but there might be more games made without them.
And many have zero interest in what their individual members think is good for them, they think they have the right to decide from on high what is good for everyone, then demand that people who work in their industry join the union even if they don't want to, and force them to pay fees for "services" they may not even want. If an organization has to manipulate and/or force people into joining it, it probably isn't one worth praising.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
At least F2P has a chance while sub-only is more or less dead.
And it is not like the GTA "community" has a lot of chatting online, and guilds.
No the GTA community has a franchise built directly for and around them. Chatting and guilds are for dorks.
Having "fun" together, I mean real fun that ONLY comes from PLAYING, builds bonds with other people. Those bonds create community and that community is the foundation of the franchise. One reason why PVP is more popular than pve.
But giving your game away for free and charging extra to speed up leveling is a good model as well...it has a chance.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
GTA says hello.
You just need to take care of your customers.
Business models aren't games, nor do they take care of customers. In fact it does the exact opposite. And while mmorpg makers try and sell xp potions, Game makers are becoming nations unto themselves. Do you think GTA fanbase discusses prices?
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Agreed.
For me, that is the only sensible solution. Use the market mechanics to your advantage.
The other solution proposed (price regulation through a gamer union) is in my opinion very dangerous and actually, morally wrong (enforcing minority choices onto a majority - because, if the majority would actually agree with these prices not being OK, then there would be no problem in the first place and these pricing methods would fail from the getgo).
You can ofcourse always try to educate the majority if you think they are wrong. But you shouldn't ever try to force something down their throat "for their own good".
In any case, giving an arbitrary insitution the power to apply outside forces to the market (dictate prices etc) is a very slippery slope and most likely wouldn't end well.
Without context, I can't be sure you're not talking about the military.
And it only takes a little stretching to apply this to any given church as well.
Only reason PvP is "popular" is because trash builds for trashy people can exist.
Take for example in WoW. Last expansion I was trying out PvP in arenas. Linked up with a kid that wanted to PvP. Thing is though he didn't care to gem/enchant/reforge (WoW is full of these throw away PvP toons, zero investment in building their toons to actually be the best). After a trial to get him gemmed/enchanted/reforged, I mentioned over and over and over how as a healer I must position myself from not being globalled. It was ignored. After the nth time in months I really had enough, because I can't play my role effectively smack in the middle of the arena for every Tom, Dick and Harry to block my abilities (and kill me). He didn't have the DPS, and I couldn't LoS to be useful. He resented that I resented playing like "a bad", and he sent me a 3 page treatise blaming me for HIS failure. After transferring and being carried to 1800, he came back apparently after some squabble with his "elite" team wanting to come back to me to restart arenas...no.
And that crap is repeated every PvP season. Kids who want the kills and don't give a damn but for #1. Teamwork comprises of who they can climb over their backs to get ahead and dump.
That's not good for a game and makes a mockery of having MMOs -- he who exploits others the most wins. MMORPG PvP is essentially Lance Armstrongs trying to fake it to the top. -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
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