There are so many things wrong with your rant. The only thing that is or ever will be true about mmo's is that there will never be another World of Warcraft. MMO's are not dying. They are evolving. It is no longer a goal to dethrone wow or atleast it should not be, because no game will ever command 12 million subs ever again. The playing field is being leveled through indie backing. ITS A GREAT TIME FOR MMO's. Find one you like and back it. Hope that you have 10000 cool people playing the same one you are and game till you can game no more.
MMORPG's are dying. There's a boon in non-immersive game lobbies though.
Lol @ backing a game you like, as if there is any guarantee whatsoever that you'll actually like it at launch. I hope you don't gamble in Vegas with those odds because supporting a kickstarter is just like throwing money on the roulette table. Everyone is going to feel really stupid if Star Citizen fails and interest in Camelot Unchained has already all but vanished.
The topic is MMO's not MMORPG's. MMO's are not dying nor is the genre. MMORPG's now there is a something that has been skewed from the perspective of what a player wants and how the dev expect to make money.
There are so many things wrong with your rant. The only thing that is or ever will be true about mmo's is that there will never be another World of Warcraft. MMO's are not dying. They are evolving. It is no longer a goal to dethrone wow or atleast it should not be, because no game will ever command 12 million subs ever again. The playing field is being leveled through indie backing. ITS A GREAT TIME FOR MMO's. Find one you like and back it. Hope that you have 10000 cool people playing the same one you are and game till you can game no more.
MMORPG's are dying. There's a boon in non-immersive game lobbies though.
Lol @ backing a game you like, as if there is any guarantee whatsoever that you'll actually like it at launch. I hope you don't gamble in Vegas with those odds because supporting a kickstarter is just like throwing money on the roulette table. Everyone is going to feel really stupid if Star Citizen fails and interest in Camelot Unchained has already all but vanished.
The topic is MMO's not MMORPG's. MMO's are not dying nor is the genre. MMORPG's now there is a something that has been skewed from the perspective of what a player wants and how the dev expect to make money.
Some people use "MMO" to mean "MMORPG". If you read the topic, it sounds like they are talking about MMORPGs, not MMOs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
1. Developers catering to casuals have caused mmos to become too boring and too easy. People need to be challenged as well as having fun. Developers worrying about business models rather than actual quality of mmos have become a big issue. MMOs need to stay niche and get away from the mainstream to have any long term success. WoW is the only exception and I doubt we will see another like it anytime soon.
2. It is simple, single player games, MOBAs, single and multiplayer shooters and rpgs, even rts games sell better and are more popular than mmos. They are more appealing to gamers than mmos for multiple reasons. These games are not on easy mode, they are actually challenging and they are just so much more fun to play. Examples would be, DayZ, Starbound,Rust, League of Legends, Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Mass Effect series and The Witcher series.
3. The Minecraft Effect. It is fun, easy and the most implortant reason I think Mincraft is so popular is because people want something differet. They are sick of the WoW clones so they need to break away from a mmo genre that is literally filled with developers copying one another's ideas with a different skin.
4. Publishers ruining mmos. They are far more concerned with quarterly earnings report than the quality of their game they are publishing.
5. Hype from the media and fans have literally killed mmos. Every year we hear the same old song " A great year for mmos is coming ". Fans and the media hype this genre so much they blow the expectations ouf othe water. MMOs don't even have a chance to succeed even if is a good mmo thanks to so much hype cause by the media and fans.
My final thoughts about the genre is that the genre for all the wrong reasons have changed. It has always been about the almighty dollar and still is but it has gotten worse. No we have free to play games with a ton of microtransactions for a pay to win sysyem catering to casuals. I think when you make a mmo you make it for mmo players , you do not make it for people who could probably care less bout playing mmos.
There are so many things wrong with your rant. The only thing that is or ever will be true about mmo's is that there will never be another World of Warcraft. MMO's are not dying. They are evolving. It is no longer a goal to dethrone wow or atleast it should not be, because no game will ever command 12 million subs ever again. The playing field is being leveled through indie backing. ITS A GREAT TIME FOR MMO's. Find one you like and back it. Hope that you have 10000 cool people playing the same one you are and game till you can game no more.
"Evolve" isn't synonymous with "better." You might as well just say they are changing. But they're still only changing in relation to WoW. No one dares be different. What isn't changing and haven't MMOs always been changing? The point is that they are mediocre and hollow now. Hollow even for video games.
Correct. Evolve is not synonymous with Better. But thats not what I said. I just said evolve. I'm one of those people that see everything as in a constant state of change. I neither agree or disagree with the fact of this change merely accept it. Its not my job to tell people of the mediocrity of a game. Or decide how hollow it is. If my personal job to find the fun in it. And if I can, I play. If I can't I don't. When given the opportunity I will share my experience and point of view.
Yep. MMO's are dying. The market has only been showing growth for like the past decade so clearly it's dying. MMO's are dying for a specific type of player i.e. the guys and gals who have been playing these games for 15 years who think it's the developers and games fault that they can't enjoy MMO's anymore.
I feel as if though the MMORPG has been watered down to cater to the casual buy me up cosmetics and items cash shop horders who plague all mmo based models. It will be hard for MMORPG's to come back to the difficulty they once were while maintaining millions for their player base. Reason being not everyone has time to be the hardcore raider or grind for months on end for that shiny. Why? Well simply put we don't have the time. We have jobs and families to support.
There are so many things wrong with your rant. The only thing that is or ever will be true about mmo's is that there will never be another World of Warcraft. MMO's are not dying. They are evolving. It is no longer a goal to dethrone wow or atleast it should not be, because no game will ever command 12 million subs ever again. The playing field is being leveled through indie backing. ITS A GREAT TIME FOR MMO's. Find one you like and back it. Hope that you have 10000 cool people playing the same one you are and game till you can game no more.
MMORPG's are dying. There's a boon in non-immersive game lobbies though.
Lol @ backing a game you like, as if there is any guarantee whatsoever that you'll actually like it at launch. I hope you don't gamble in Vegas with those odds because supporting a kickstarter is just like throwing money on the roulette table. Everyone is going to feel really stupid if Star Citizen fails and interest in Camelot Unchained has already all but vanished.
The topic is MMO's not MMORPG's. MMO's are not dying nor is the genre. MMORPG's now there is a something that has been skewed from the perspective of what a player wants and how the dev expect to make money.
Some people use "MMO" to mean "MMORPG". If you read the topic, it sounds like they are talking about MMORPGs, not MMOs.
I agree. Just trying to keep it on task though. And I agree with your statement;
"MMORPGs might disappear as a distinct genre of games though. If the genre splits into several different types of games, or gets merged into other games then MMORPG will become a blanket term, similar to what MMO is now. A blanket term to cover games with a wide variation in play styles."
For the time being it is important that those lines are not blurred even further imo.
Frankly, you are wrong. Data shows otherwise and with more and more variety of MMOs as well as the genre finally making it's way to console mainstream the genre is growing, not dying.
1. Casual games don't exactly do poorly in sales. Hard challenging games don't either, so really challenge has nothing to do with sales numbers.
2. This was always the case except obviously, before MOBAs existed. You know what else sold better than popular old school MMOs and is casual and not really challenging? The Sims.
3. And that type of gameplay is being incorporated into the MMO genre: See Landmark.
4. Publishers also ruin single player and smaller multiplayer games too. Too bad we don't have a surge of indie and crowdfunding that MMOs can't possibly utilize to forego publishers... Oh, wait, we do!
5. Because single player games don't get hype either. I'm sure there is no buzz around the new Halo which we only saw a teaser clip that showed no actual gameplay and revealed nothing of the game. Or Titanfall, or The Witcher 3, or Smash Bros...
There are approximately 61,000,000 mmo participants world-wide. Death is a relative aspect of the perception we may have here. From what I can see, mmo's are indeed alive and well. There are many more mmo's than was seen in 1995, or 1999, or 2002, 2004, or even 2010. What is not discussed here is the fact that there are more mmo's now than before.
Now, I didn't major in mathematics in university, but I do know enough about statistics and the casual effect of having more mmo type games than at the time of all those good ol' mmo's this forum seems to pontificate and reminisce of those glory days and so on and so forth...
My number comes from Numbers of.net, which in turn linked from, Graphs MMO Revenues if you'd care to go and visit for some good ol' graphical goodness. I sort of feel that there are more mmo's to choose from and that gamers are a fickle lot, wouldn't you say?
As you go along your journeys here reading posts, notice how many proudly display 4, 5, 6, or more games that they have ..uhm..tried, yet left for whatever reason. I am having some difficulty linking on this forum, thus I would have "juiced" this up rather for you and the forum watchers/responders. It used to be rather easier to link here, but oh well, EQ Nexus is where I prefer to hang out nowadays as well as Massively.com.
I had planned a wonderful excerpt from Little Big Man. In this excerpt, Chief Dan George goes to the mountain to die, as he would say, "Today is a good day to die!", but alas he lays down before our hero, Dustin Hoffman, to die of course, because he's old and all, but, well it rains on him and he sits up and proclaims, "Sometimes the magic works; sometimes it doesn't...".
Dying is a word I seem to read on this forum quite a bit. I'd have to say since after the disastrous Vanguard-gate of 2007-2008. Apparently we place very little faith any more on the mmo's we hype. Remember all the wonderful goodness we heaped upon Warhammer and Age of Conan way back in the day? Oh and yeah, seems I read somewhere that Star Wars: ToR was going to save the genre. Well, one actually died, Warhammer while the other two still live. How much "love" do they get now? Not too much, all those damned corrupted devs and "big business tycoons" keep "messin'" with our games. Why can't they be UO or EQ or whatever old mmo we can all think of.
MMO's are dying. Death. Give me a break. When do we open up the conspiracy section on this forum? MMO's are changing, yes, I would agree there. The ladies and gentlemen on this forum that represent a microscopic statistical base compared to 61 million seems to believe that they speak for all those 61 million players world-wide. I don't hear on vent, raidcall, mumble, or teamspeak what I read on this forum. Thus, NO, I'm not "buying" mmo's are fading, dying, decaying, or nuking themselves to death. They are changing and folks here on MMORPG.com don't like it, damnit! Well some of you folks don't, the rest of us, well we read these threads and yeah some of bite and argue with angry OP's about the "state of the game". I am guilty as charged this day...
Just go to YouTube and type in Little Big Man. Take a look at the excerpt and think about all these threads that pop up weekly about how dead all our games are now...place these complainants as Chief Dan George and just witness for yourself how laughable all this really is...
Good night Mrs Calabash, where ever you are! (Jimmy Durante)
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by NagelRitter I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
Originally posted by Viadric I feel as if though the MMORPG has been watered down to cater to the casual buy me up cosmetics and items cash shop horders who plague all mmo based models. It will be hard for MMORPG's to come back to the difficulty they once were while maintaining millions for their player base. Reason being not everyone has time to be the hardcore raider or grind for months on end for that shiny. Why? Well simply put we don't have the time. We have jobs and families to support.
But there are plenty of people out there who do have the time or make the time to play games, why can't you? Bad time management a lot of people out there have , I work a full time job and go to school, take care of business and still manage to play the games I love on a decent manageable amount of time and plenty of it, casuals seem to think their time is so short that they think an entire genre should be created around their 1 hr of playtime a week to suit them , in return we get watered down experiences.
I have quite a few casual gaming friends you know they speak of family, and jobs but are they really that busy? DO they really have the time? Yes, they do, turn off the TV and the sports, you dont have to spend every waking moment with your family or a wife that doesn't really like you playing anyway (never marry a woman who doesnt like gaming) get the kids involved in gaming, quality time and gaming go hand in hand cause most kids these days in some form or another like to game or learn at least. Casuals have time to play games, they like to use the no time excuse as a crutch for game design to be watered down and its an old excuse that doesnt cut it anymore, people make time for the stuff they love to do if you some how have that bad time mangement skills that you cant do the things you love and involve others to join you like your kids or wife, then gaming isnt for you period , stop ruining it with the rest of us.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
Originally posted by NagelRitter I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
He means the genre as a whole not a single game.
Yes. WoW would have likely been successful even if it was a sandbox. Outside of ease of use, I think Battlenet and the already online fanboy base Blizzard has was the most important aspect of bring in the huge numbers. I think its been shown the success simply can not be replicated.
Its time to start catering to some of the left behind players and also expanding the genre before it does collapse on itself. Seems horrible that majority of the people I gamed with mostly have quit the genre.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
So if you two believe this to be true how do you explain.
- Gloria victis
- Pathfinder Online
- Shroud of the Avatar
- Camelot unchanied
Not to mention more...
Which are all recent independant promising titles that are made by gamers for gamers. Its not about money for these companies. So if a genre is dying then why are new titles in the works?
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
No appealing to millions does and has worked. But in the case of this genre they're making it stale because of core mechanics. The genre has gotten to the point where it's on the verge of split IMO
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I wish doomsayers were a dying breed. Then we would maybe get less nonsensical threads like this one, saying that an industry with 50+ million players instead of 1 millions during "old schoold' times is a "dying genre".
Honestly, the genre would have likely collapse if not for F2P being viable solutions for many subpar quality games. The opinion of most games doesn't matter as long as whales continue to buy because they can.
I agree that the genre is dying, but doubt that the reason is on the gamer's site nor is it any payment model's fault The genre started to die when after an era of "games made by gamers for gamers" one day the suits took over and tried to produce quarterly numbers instead of great games, releasing titles the players rejected.
Stop making clones which embrace 15yr old mechanics, titles that insult every player's intelligence or just reek of publisher greed.
Give us an adventure that's worth playing and you'll again have a success unheard of since WoW. The genre will continue to go down crap creek until someone stops to produce and starts to innovate instead.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
So if you two believe this to be true how do you explain.
- Gloria victis
- Pathfinder Online
- Shroud of the Avatar
- Camelot unchanied
Not to mention more...
Which are all recent independant promising titles that are made by gamers for gamers. Its not about money for these companies. So if a genre is dying then why are new titles in the works?
None of them are out, or have any evidence or whether or not they look more than "promising" on paper. That and Shroud of the Avatar is barely an MMO.
So we're talking about the genre RIGHT NOW. Besides, underfunded understaffed indie games coming out in 3 years does not make one think well of the industry doing well.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I wish doomsayers were a dying breed. Then we would maybe get less nonsensical threads like this one, saying that an industry with 50+ million players instead of 1 millions during "old schoold' times is a "dying genre".
one million? Maybe if you combined two of the dozens of games that were out in 2004. If you combined them all the number would be much much higher.
But yeah, why don't you show me how well Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Aion, and the other casual MMOs are doing? Server merges aren't usually a positive thing.
Originally posted by NagelRitter I don't think it's dying as much as it's becoming a less and less viable cash cow. Which is a good thing in my eyes.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I don't think the genre is dying. You just have to hope the games start catering to a wider range of players.
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
He means the genre as a whole not a single game.
Yes. WoW would have likely been successful even if it was a sandbox. Outside of ease of use, I think Battlenet and the already online fanboy base Blizzard has was the most important aspect of bring in the huge numbers. I think its been shown the success simply can not be replicated.
Its time to start catering to some of the left behind players and also expanding the genre before it does collapse on itself. Seems horrible that majority of the people I gamed with mostly have quit the genre.
This is something most people fail to realize. WoW's success was more to do with it not taking ANY risks, and being the first big budget MMO with a pre existing fanbase, and a multi million dollar ad campaign. There can only be one first mainstream MMO.
Comments
The topic is MMO's not MMORPG's. MMO's are not dying nor is the genre. MMORPG's now there is a something that has been skewed from the perspective of what a player wants and how the dev expect to make money.
Some people use "MMO" to mean "MMORPG". If you read the topic, it sounds like they are talking about MMORPGs, not MMOs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Correct. Evolve is not synonymous with Better. But thats not what I said. I just said evolve. I'm one of those people that see everything as in a constant state of change. I neither agree or disagree with the fact of this change merely accept it. Its not my job to tell people of the mediocrity of a game. Or decide how hollow it is. If my personal job to find the fun in it. And if I can, I play. If I can't I don't. When given the opportunity I will share my experience and point of view.
I agree. Just trying to keep it on task though. And I agree with your statement;
"MMORPGs might disappear as a distinct genre of games though. If the genre splits into several different types of games, or gets merged into other games then MMORPG will become a blanket term, similar to what MMO is now. A blanket term to cover games with a wide variation in play styles."
For the time being it is important that those lines are not blurred even further imo.
There's only 100 times more people playing mmorpg today than 10 years ago. (made up number)
So I dont' know why you call it a dying genre.
You clever boy, I see what you did there :P
This thread hasn't been done a thousand times...
Frankly, you are wrong. Data shows otherwise and with more and more variety of MMOs as well as the genre finally making it's way to console mainstream the genre is growing, not dying.
1. Casual games don't exactly do poorly in sales. Hard challenging games don't either, so really challenge has nothing to do with sales numbers.
2. This was always the case except obviously, before MOBAs existed. You know what else sold better than popular old school MMOs and is casual and not really challenging? The Sims.
3. And that type of gameplay is being incorporated into the MMO genre: See Landmark.
4. Publishers also ruin single player and smaller multiplayer games too. Too bad we don't have a surge of indie and crowdfunding that MMOs can't possibly utilize to forego publishers... Oh, wait, we do!
5. Because single player games don't get hype either. I'm sure there is no buzz around the new Halo which we only saw a teaser clip that showed no actual gameplay and revealed nothing of the game. Or Titanfall, or The Witcher 3, or Smash Bros...
Hello ThomasN7,
There are approximately 61,000,000 mmo participants world-wide. Death is a relative aspect of the perception we may have here. From what I can see, mmo's are indeed alive and well. There are many more mmo's than was seen in 1995, or 1999, or 2002, 2004, or even 2010. What is not discussed here is the fact that there are more mmo's now than before.
Now, I didn't major in mathematics in university, but I do know enough about statistics and the casual effect of having more mmo type games than at the time of all those good ol' mmo's this forum seems to pontificate and reminisce of those glory days and so on and so forth...
My number comes from Numbers of.net, which in turn linked from, Graphs MMO Revenues if you'd care to go and visit for some good ol' graphical goodness. I sort of feel that there are more mmo's to choose from and that gamers are a fickle lot, wouldn't you say?
As you go along your journeys here reading posts, notice how many proudly display 4, 5, 6, or more games that they have ..uhm..tried, yet left for whatever reason. I am having some difficulty linking on this forum, thus I would have "juiced" this up rather for you and the forum watchers/responders. It used to be rather easier to link here, but oh well, EQ Nexus is where I prefer to hang out nowadays as well as Massively.com.
I had planned a wonderful excerpt from Little Big Man. In this excerpt, Chief Dan George goes to the mountain to die, as he would say, "Today is a good day to die!", but alas he lays down before our hero, Dustin Hoffman, to die of course, because he's old and all, but, well it rains on him and he sits up and proclaims, "Sometimes the magic works; sometimes it doesn't...".
Dying is a word I seem to read on this forum quite a bit. I'd have to say since after the disastrous Vanguard-gate of 2007-2008. Apparently we place very little faith any more on the mmo's we hype. Remember all the wonderful goodness we heaped upon Warhammer and Age of Conan way back in the day? Oh and yeah, seems I read somewhere that Star Wars: ToR was going to save the genre. Well, one actually died, Warhammer while the other two still live. How much "love" do they get now? Not too much, all those damned corrupted devs and "big business tycoons" keep "messin'" with our games. Why can't they be UO or EQ or whatever old mmo we can all think of.
MMO's are dying. Death. Give me a break. When do we open up the conspiracy section on this forum? MMO's are changing, yes, I would agree there. The ladies and gentlemen on this forum that represent a microscopic statistical base compared to 61 million seems to believe that they speak for all those 61 million players world-wide. I don't hear on vent, raidcall, mumble, or teamspeak what I read on this forum. Thus, NO, I'm not "buying" mmo's are fading, dying, decaying, or nuking themselves to death. They are changing and folks here on MMORPG.com don't like it, damnit! Well some of you folks don't, the rest of us, well we read these threads and yeah some of bite and argue with angry OP's about the "state of the game". I am guilty as charged this day...
Just go to YouTube and type in Little Big Man. Take a look at the excerpt and think about all these threads that pop up weekly about how dead all our games are now...place these complainants as Chief Dan George and just witness for yourself how laughable all this really is...
Good night Mrs Calabash, where ever you are! (Jimmy Durante)
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
What? The games need to be catering to smaller ranges, not wider ones. Catering to everyone is what is making them so terrible.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
People are just too hard to please.
Many like to call wow shallow. But people play that game for 10 years(is it even out 10 years)?
I can't say the same about those old games you guys love so much.
He means the genre as a whole not a single game.
But there are plenty of people out there who do have the time or make the time to play games, why can't you? Bad time management a lot of people out there have , I work a full time job and go to school, take care of business and still manage to play the games I love on a decent manageable amount of time and plenty of it, casuals seem to think their time is so short that they think an entire genre should be created around their 1 hr of playtime a week to suit them , in return we get watered down experiences.
I have quite a few casual gaming friends you know they speak of family, and jobs but are they really that busy? DO they really have the time? Yes, they do, turn off the TV and the sports, you dont have to spend every waking moment with your family or a wife that doesn't really like you playing anyway (never marry a woman who doesnt like gaming) get the kids involved in gaming, quality time and gaming go hand in hand cause most kids these days in some form or another like to game or learn at least. Casuals have time to play games, they like to use the no time excuse as a crutch for game design to be watered down and its an old excuse that doesnt cut it anymore, people make time for the stuff they love to do if you some how have that bad time mangement skills that you cant do the things you love and involve others to join you like your kids or wife, then gaming isnt for you period , stop ruining it with the rest of us.
This is more or less true, and what the OP said.
The original MMOs, that were so successful where modern MMOs weren't, were designed by people who loved fantasy games, D&D, and spent their time designing MUDs and other virtual worlds, because that's what they wanted to do in life.
They wanted to bring their fantasy worlds to life. That's what EQ was. DAoC was the culmination of Mythic bringing their past MUDs into 3D space. They targeted an audience, a niche audience, and made a game they knew they'd like to play. And they were unique.
Modern MMOs have none of these things, and the added threat of publishers.
Appealing to multiple millions has never, and never again will be, a viable strategy.
Yes. WoW would have likely been successful even if it was a sandbox. Outside of ease of use, I think Battlenet and the already online fanboy base Blizzard has was the most important aspect of bring in the huge numbers. I think its been shown the success simply can not be replicated.
Its time to start catering to some of the left behind players and also expanding the genre before it does collapse on itself. Seems horrible that majority of the people I gamed with mostly have quit the genre.
So if you two believe this to be true how do you explain.
- Gloria victis
- Pathfinder Online
- Shroud of the Avatar
- Camelot unchanied
Not to mention more...
Which are all recent independant promising titles that are made by gamers for gamers. Its not about money for these companies. So if a genre is dying then why are new titles in the works?
No appealing to millions does and has worked. But in the case of this genre they're making it stale because of core mechanics. The genre has gotten to the point where it's on the verge of split IMO
People said the same thing about GW2 and TOR.
And before that, I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about AoC and WAR.
I'm pretty sure the same was said about RIFT and LotRO and...
You get the point, I pray.
Honestly, the genre would have likely collapse if not for F2P being viable solutions for many subpar quality games. The opinion of most games doesn't matter as long as whales continue to buy because they can.
None of them are out, or have any evidence or whether or not they look more than "promising" on paper. That and Shroud of the Avatar is barely an MMO.
So we're talking about the genre RIGHT NOW. Besides, underfunded understaffed indie games coming out in 3 years does not make one think well of the industry doing well.
one million? Maybe if you combined two of the dozens of games that were out in 2004. If you combined them all the number would be much much higher.
But yeah, why don't you show me how well Rift, SWTOR, TSW, Aion, and the other casual MMOs are doing? Server merges aren't usually a positive thing.
This is something most people fail to realize. WoW's success was more to do with it not taking ANY risks, and being the first big budget MMO with a pre existing fanbase, and a multi million dollar ad campaign. There can only be one first mainstream MMO.