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F2P The GOOD The BAD and the UGLY

tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon

GOOD

1.  Since it's basically FREE, it  generates a healthy population number most of the time, also it generates a healthy amount of new players,  wich in a sence takes away the problems with MMO age and players being capped and in end games in MMO's.

2. It makes MMO's comming to consoles easier,  ..this in turn makes the MMO   hobby bigger and new players and fanbase is increasing.

3 It costs less to develop, just start up the cashshop and let the game generate Money. and It let's itself develop over time and popularity.

4 It leaves the doors open for games that has been less fortunate , to actually start a new Life as a FTP title, like many games has these Days. To give it new Life :)

 

Well..Thats basically It for positive Points regarding Free to Play

 

BAD

1. As in the first good Points it also Draws a a healthy number of players that(I'd say most of them) ..well, basically has no interesst in actually playing this game, they are just in there to check it out, gloat , stir up some trouble then leave. Also, with every jerk that creates an account, It takes up needed space and names for serious players.

2. You WILL never see a free to play game with the same amount of budgets as for example..SWTOR and TSW ..There is simply to much risktaking in creating such a expensive game with the risk of loosing it all. Atleast Neverwinter sold pioneer packs at release, but still Neverwinter is far from a high budget MMO.

3 The Item Store, If you like huge roleplaying Worlds (Like I do) ..This will take down the immersion to almost the bottom, there is nothing as horrible than to be reminded about the itemstore at each click of your mouse. and the Items that are only available in a store is stupid, where did they come from ? How did they end up in this World ? Yeah, via a virtual store.

I was reminded in this thread that there are "non mmo's" and other games that has a cash shop aswell, Yeah thats right and they are as horrible in these games as well.

4 It creates players that..much like the community that plays pirated games, takes every released game for granted. If It comes with a cost, they will scream and shout and curse at the developers for not letting them play this game since it's their given right and can play every other game that is F2P. How dare you ask for some Money back ?

5 As in Point 4 of the good track , it generates a high amount of games that was never intended to be a F2P , yet now they are like SWTOR, AoC and LOTRO . Games like this with a high production value are now a F2P title among the rest of the rotten fruits that floats around in this market. Wich in turn give these game some bad publicity , Just look around on some of them ad's on this site, It can't be fun to get mixed up with Scarlet Blade for example,

Many new players won't even know it's history, yet they will learn that, Ohh can I play such a  good game for Free, and they will learn to demand it every time a new title releases

Games with such a high production value (developers atleast got their box sales) will never see the light of day as a FTP starter game, yet that will never stop the angry horde to demand that every released game will go FTP, Im looking at TESO for example. ..This Point 5 almost  belongs in the UGLY cathegory aswell.

 

The UGLY.

 

1 .It generates some good amount of Money grabbing developers that, well ..Only generates FTP game after FTP as cheap as possible to hopefully generate some cash, these developers will naturally have a BAD reputation, but it will still lure some players with flashy banners and ad's. Many often seen on this site.

These guys often have the games counterpart on facebook and some shady greenlight Project on steam etc,

These games are often a copy of each other, with lore (If any) that anyone can write in a cofee break. They are very ugly and cheap but just on the border of this so it could actually raise some funds for the shady Company.

The possibilities and creativity to lure players to these shitty games seems to be endless.

 

 

 

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Comments

  • RattenmannRattenmann ReitmehringPosts: 510Member Uncommon

    I agree 100%, will give my view in short:

     

    FTP offers more money with less risk for the developer / publisher... on the other hand FTP offers way less quality, immersion and staying power then "real" games.

    Since Developer hardly fund their own games and publisher usually don't care about happy gamer... we will keep seeing FTP-fail-games.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zaradoom

    I agree 100%, will give my view in short:

     

    FTP offers more money with less risk for the developer / publisher... on the other hand FTP offers way less quality, immersion and staying power then "real" games.

    Since Developer hardly fund their own games and publisher usually don't care about happy gamer... we will keep seeing FTP-fail-games.

    It doesn't matter if they fail since another will pop up right behind it with pretty much the exact same everything. Sheople are blind and will continue to pump cash into these crap games until the end of time and publishers notice this, so expect more of the same in the near future.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zaradoom

    I agree 100%, will give my view in short:

     

    FTP offers more money with less risk for the developer / publisher... on the other hand FTP offers way less quality, immersion and staying power then "real" games.

    Since Developer hardly fund their own games and publisher usually don't care about happy gamer... we will keep seeing FTP-fail-games.

    F2P does not actually offer more money... it offers more ROI. The single biggest expense for a P2P game is marketting. This is often 2-3x more expensive than building the game. A F2P game can avoid the large upfront marketting cost. This means less upfront cost (often no need for a Publisher like EA), and a faster return on the investment.

    This is why you are seeing so many indies go F2P, as they are not required to sell their soul (or game) to a big publisher, on the hopes that they will break even.

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,892Member Uncommon

    I've come to realize if you're a solo player who doesn't PvP then free to play is like manna from freaking MMO heaven.  You get to wander around absolutely free and pay nothing, explore, take some commemorative screenshots, and move on.  

     

    I'm pretty sure free to play and the Guild Wars 2 buy to play is the only reason I'm still even playing MMOs.  Picked up FFIX cheap on Amazon, so maybe I should credit discount box and free month, too.  The one month free for $15, wander around, quit.  

     

    The problem of course is that I want more.  I want to spend years immersed again, but no developer has come up with anything new that captures my attention for that long.  Maybe it isn't even their fault.  A pony is a marvelous thing the first time you see it, but after awhile, the pony rides are all the same and you're ready to move on.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • plat0nicplat0nic new york, NYPosts: 301Member
    the one thing f2p does is gives us worlds with incredibly huge populations and a lot more people to play with..  It also levles the playing field for those with and without $15/month to spare :)

    image
    Main Game: Eldevin (Plat0nic)
    2nd Game: Path of Exile (Platonic Hate)

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thark

    2. You WILL never see a free to play game with the same amount budgets as for example..SWTOR and TSW ..There is simply to much risktaking in creating such a expensive game with the risk of loosing it all. Atleast Neverwinter sold pioneer packs at release, but still Neverwinter is far from a high budget MMO. 

     *snip* I'm just going to laugh at this statement; because budget is a measurement of quality. That is all.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by thark

    2. You WILL never see a free to play game with the same amount budgets as for example..SWTOR and TSW ..There is simply to much risktaking in creating such a expensive game with the risk of loosing it all. Atleast Neverwinter sold pioneer packs at release, but still Neverwinter is far from a high budget MMO. 

     *snip* I'm just going to laugh at this statement; because budget is a measurement of quality. That is all.

    You can laugh at the whole thing. Obviously budget wont make a game for everyone but he apparently has never heard of EQN either.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    F2p isn't the only solution .check neverwinter foundry ,it give huge return for little to no investment .if cryptic could add a raid version and a PvP version .it would be perfect ! Imagine being able to go in battleground area or any map you can think about . I'm pretty sure cryptic is in talk with r a Salvatore to add raid and PvP foundry .
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,563Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thark

    3 It costs less to develop, just start up the cashshop and let the game generate Money. and It let's itself develop over time and popularity.

    100% wrong.

    Any company who has implemented a microtrans cash shop is laughing at this.

    cash shops require, billing and audit systems that can process real time payment transactions (sub games run payments once per month or less, they don't need an expensive platform keeping track of every billiny 24/7 transaction). Also you need additional personnel for charge backs and fraud due to high number of payments.

     

    Then you have business intelligence and monetization teams to do metrics and analysis on economy and player spending trends.

    Sub games dont need these teams.

     

    Cash shops require more devs and additional teams to run - its a lot more expensive option than subscription option.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by thark

    3 It costs less to develop, just start up the cashshop and let the game generate Money. and It let's itself develop over time and popularity.

    100% wrong.

    Any company who has implemented a microtrans cash shop is laughing at this.

    cash shops require, billing and audit systems that can process real time payment transactions (sub games run payments once per month or less, they don't need an expensive platform keeping track of every billiny 24/7 transaction). Also you need additional personnel for charge backs and fraud due to high number of payments.

     

    Then you have business intelligence and monetization teams to do metrics and analysis on economy and player spending trends.

    Sub games dont need these teams.

     

    Cash shops require more devs and additional teams to run - its a lot more expensive option than subscription option.

     

    I'd listen to this guy. From my experience, he's spot on.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by thark

    2. You WILL never see a free to play game with the same amount budgets as for example..SWTOR and TSW ..There is simply to much risktaking in creating such a expensive game with the risk of loosing it all. Atleast Neverwinter sold pioneer packs at release, but still Neverwinter is far from a high budget MMO. 

     *snip* I'm just going to laugh at this statement; because budget is a measurement of quality. That is all.

    And in this case It was all I ment aswell..But, also with high budgets comes great Talents  naturally , but If there has been great talents working on SWTOR ; i'd say, most likely :), and you say no because you do not like the game :) ..

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by thark

    3 It costs less to develop, just start up the cashshop and let the game generate Money. and It let's itself develop over time and popularity.

    100% wrong.

    Any company who has implemented a microtrans cash shop is laughing at this.

    cash shops require, billing and audit systems that can process real time payment transactions (sub games run payments once per month or less, they don't need an expensive platform keeping track of every billiny 24/7 transaction). Also you need additional personnel for charge backs and fraud due to high number of payments.

     

    Then you have business intelligence and monetization teams to do metrics and analysis on economy and player spending trends.

    Sub games dont need these teams.

     

    Cash shops require more devs and additional teams to run - its a lot more expensive option than subscription option.

     

    Ok....I can't argue with this, but I do not belive It ..If you look at some of them games that has cashshop (most do) Take an example The dreaded game WaR Z, sure It takes security and all, but once you have this for one game, you can make a new and a new.

    Also, It's not that there is MANY games if any MMO or any type of game, sub or no sub that does NOT have some sort of shop at all , I'm rather Confident that this is handled very smoothly these Days..

    And...even If the actual cost for these shops where as high and took so much work as you claim, It does almost NOTHING for the actual game or gameplay that players is suppose to like, It's a service that needs to be there so the developers can earn some Money.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Some gamers seem to be prepared to forgive these games for anything they do because they are free.

    Cash shops cost a lot to set up, but they are automated from there on in, if there were that expensive to run no F2P MMO would make money.

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member

    Please google FTP and F2P..... They are completely different acronyms.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Barrikor

    Please google FTP and F2P..... They are completely different acronyms.

    They seemed to be used to refer to the same concept: free to play games. I do realise FTP can mean other things but both are in common usage as games you play for free.

  • SirPKsAlotSirPKsAlot bagong silangPosts: 224Member
    man I've seen like 8 different woes-of-F2P threads today on various forums. The thing is, it depends on the game and how P2W the cash shop is. I've been having a great time in Eldevin and King's Road because the gameplay in both games is legitimately fun and focused on PvE, though King's Road definitely starts to harass you with "Buy this epic sword RIGHT NAOW! ONLY $20!" after a certain level, whereas Eldevin's cash shop is mostly stuff to make your PvE experience easier (exp potions, slot bags, etc).

    image
    Currently playing: Eldevin Online as a Deadly Assassin

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Barrikor

    Please google FTP and F2P..... They are completely different acronyms.

    Just did and sorry I don't see that there is a diffrence in most cases , they mean the same thing and if it so happens that anyone is using this or that to describe 2 diffrent plenomenas, I Think it's a coincidence.

    I see that in Wikipedia they have mentioned F2P as a note to what happened to valves Team Fortress 2 , when they converted this game to Free to Play and download..

    But this is the same but just the "cooler" internet lingo version of FTP.

     

    My guess is that you mean this !!

    FTP = A game that is Free to Play from the getgo

    F2P =  A game that once was Pay to Play and now has been converted to Free to Play..

    But again, this is not common knowlege ..anywhere :)

     

     

     

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thark
    Originally posted by Barrikor

    Please google FTP and F2P..... They are completely different acronyms.

    Just did and sorry I don't see that there is a diffrence in most cases , they mean the same thing and if it so happens that anyone is using this or that to describe 2 diffrent plenomenas, I Think it's a coincidence.

    I see that in Wikipedia they have mentioned F2P as a note to what happened to valves Team Fortress 2 , when they converted this game to Free to Play and download..

    But this is the same but just the "cooler" internet lingo version of FTP.

     

    My guess is that you mean this !!

    FTP = A game that is Free to Play from the getgo

    F2P =  A game that once was Pay to Play and now has been converted to Free to Play..

    But again, this is not common knowlege ..anywhere :) 

     

    FTP = File Transfer Protocol (Hence the UDP joke)

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

    F2P = Free to Play. You can find a reasonable definition on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

     

    Most of us were able to determine what you were trying to say, because of where you posted this (mmorpg), and the details of your original post. The rest were just making fun of you. Dont be offended, this forum is a tough crowd.

     

     

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    Originally posted by thark
    Originally posted by Barrikor

    Please google FTP and F2P..... They are completely different acronyms.

    Just did and sorry I don't see that there is a diffrence in most cases , they mean the same thing and if it so happens that anyone is using this or that to describe 2 diffrent plenomenas, I Think it's a coincidence.

    I see that in Wikipedia they have mentioned F2P as a note to what happened to valves Team Fortress 2 , when they converted this game to Free to Play and download..

    But this is the same but just the "cooler" internet lingo version of FTP.

     

    My guess is that you mean this !!

    FTP = A game that is Free to Play from the getgo

    F2P =  A game that once was Pay to Play and now has been converted to Free to Play..

    But again, this is not common knowlege ..anywhere :) 

     

    FTP = File Transfer Protocol (Hence the UDP joke)

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

    F2P = Free to Play. You can find a reasonable definition on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

     

    Most of us were able to determine what you were trying to say, because of where you posted this (mmorpg), and the details of your original post. The rest were just making fun of you. Dont be offended, this forum is a tough crowd.

     

     

    Lol..Ok..I see now, and I did not notice this as I used both in my google search at the same time..

    Naturally ..File transfer protocol has been around abit longer than F2P..

    Hopefully...no one thought I was posting about file transfers :)

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    You are confusing F2P with cash shop in a lot of this. Most of your negatives exist in current B2P games as well. You can play Path of Exile without spending a single penny, same with Hearthstone, same with League of Legends. A game like SWTOR or Rift give you so many restrictions it isn't really F2P long, they also don't count as F2P since they started B2P.

    I don't for one minute believe F2P games can't have the same production costs either, that is just a stereotype. Both games rely on getting most of their money back post release and the F2P model has shown to be more profitable than the P2P model. Investors know this information as well.

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

    You are confusing F2P with cash shop in a lot of this. Most of your negatives exist in current B2P games as well. You can play Path of Exile without spending a single penny, same with Hearthstone, same with League of Legends. A game like SWTOR or Rift give you so many restrictions it isn't really F2P long, they also don't count as F2P since they started B2P.

    I don't for one minute believe F2P games can't have the same production costs either, that is just a stereotype. Both games rely on getting most of their money back post release and the F2P model has shown to be more profitable than the P2P model. Investors know this information as well.

    I agree with you that SWTOR and Rift doesn't Count as "real" F2P games, I mentioned this in my post, It doesnt stop players to belive that this is the norm for a F2P title, Its part of the ugly truth.

    Also, yeah ..I can play any F2P title for free , that is not what I'm talking about , It's more in the lines of ...what a dreadful Community it creates ..spoiled brats ..that only demands and gives Close to nothing but trouble back. In turn it creates suspect developers that creates game upon game with diffrent title with the lowest possible development cost, this in turn forces the "good!" developers to use these payment models aswell.

    And ...ofcourse there is negative things about almost any game type, genre and buisness model, nothing is perfect . But this model is the ugliest , because it has so many dark sides to it , both in the eyes of developers and It's players.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

    Nah.. UDP is transport layer, we're talking application layer here.  Let's do NTP next.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • IGaveUpIGaveUp NW, INPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

     

    I don't get the *connection*.

     

    *BIG GRIN*

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Next in our series:

     

    UDP: Every which way but loose?

    Nah.. UDP is transport layer, we're talking application layer here.  Let's do NTP next.

    I've been outgeeked!

    Very well, then...

     

    NTP: Where Eagles Dare

     

    ;) 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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