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Making a Game from a MMO

sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Uncommon

I started this at the pub but I think this question may be better here.

Why wouldn't developers make other standalone games using the code from their MMO?  They already have an engine, combat system, characters, armor/clothing, and a world to build upon.  Keeping everyone in the same game is very important, the next best thing is to keep them in the same universe.

There is so much in MMOs, it almost seems like a waste for only one game when a small investment could fund another game to appeal to other markets.  Genres like MOBA, ARPG, lobby battlegrounds, single-player adventure (with group support) - a creative team could go crazy thinking of possibilities.

These games could be priced moderately or f2p with cash shop that wouldn't even affect the original MMO.  SWTOR could make their own version of Battlefront, GW2 could make a cool siege game (similar to War of the Roses or Chivalry), or a MMO could just make a single-player survival/builder game like Minecraft.  Even if these games are horrible (which would apply more to the developers rather than the idea of making a game from a game) they could still make a profit.

Warhammer already tried something like this with Wraith of Heroes.  That game was awesome fun until they made a few bad design decisions and started a crappy p2w shop (again, fault of company).  Blizzard may not be using the same code but they do reuse vital designs such as; characters, abilities, and art to make other games like Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm.

The community alone could make some pretty cool games if companies allowed us to mod their games - entire genres have been created like this - Does anyone else see the potential here!?

Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Probably budget and manpower. Most mmos can't generate enough content to keep one mmo "happy" splitting your work force and funds to try another game seems like a recipe for disaster.
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Probably budget and manpower. Most mmos can't generate enough content to keep one mmo "happy" splitting your work force and funds to try another game seems like a recipe for disaster.

    Good point but I wouldn't suggest splitting workforce.  Many times they let people go around release, if they could funnel these people into the standalone game or just outsource it.   These titles need to be separate games.

    While it would cost money to fund, it's still making another game with FAR lower cost and may help train more developers for the MMO.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 16,598Member Epic

    There are many trade-offs in game design.  In order to make a game into an MMORPG, you have to give up some things that you'd rather not throw away for a single-player game.  For example, when making MMORPG combat, you have to take measures to cover up Internet latency, which will make your combat not as good as it would be in a single-player game where you can skip such workarounds.  For an MMORPG, you have to turn graphical resource usage low enough that the game doesn't choke if many players are in the same area.  For a single-player game, you know exactly how much stuff can ever be in an area, and can turn graphical settings higher to better utilize the hardware that the player has.

    So if you naively try to turn an MMORPG into a single-player game, it's not going to be a very good single-player game.  If you do the necessary redevelopment to optimize it for a single-player experience, you've added a lot of cost, while making two games that are similar enough that people probably won't want to pay you for both.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    There are many trade-offs in game design.  In order to make a game into an MMORPG, you have to give up some things that you'd rather not throw away for a single-player game.  For example, when making MMORPG combat, you have to take measures to cover up Internet latency, which will make your combat not as good as it would be in a single-player game where you can skip such workarounds.

    Which is a great point.  Many MMOs are built to have 50+ players in screen at one time - they could use this to their benefit.  War of Roses and Chivalry are great multiplayer games... graphics would improve as the game is developed.   Also a lot of the content in MMOs are single-player.

     

    Originally posted by Quizzical
    For an MMORPG, you have to turn graphical resource usage low enough that the game doesn't choke if many players are in the same area.  For a single-player game, you know exactly how much stuff can ever be in an area, and can turn graphical settings higher to better utilize the hardware that the player has.

    This game would basically still be a MMORPG, all graphical usage resource anti-choking with multiple players would still apply.  Only that player involvement would be controlled to some extent.  They could do 5v5, 10v10, lane games, death match, capture the flag, siege... much of what I'm describing is just instanced content (battlegrounds, dungeons, raids).

     

    Originally posted by Quizzical
    So if you naively try to turn an MMORPG into a single-player game, it's not going to be a very good single-player game.  If you do the necessary redevelopment to optimize it for a single-player experience, you've added a lot of cost, while making two games that are similar enough that people probably won't want to pay you for both.

    I would agree, it wouldn't be a great single-player game if you try to make a single player game.  Imagine if you could play on your very own server with a survivability mod.  You would have to find resources, build a house, you could shape land and build with blocks *cough minecraft*.  Xsyon was a neat survival MMO.

    You should give people their money's worth - if not you could give it to the MMO players for free, it's not really marketed directly to them.  MMOs have great customization, ease to add more customization, and can have multiple people on the screen at one time ~ there are many undiscovered genres hiding in there.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Probably budget and manpower. 

    Also, it makes more sense to spend a fraction of the money selling gamers on the single-player or solo value of the MMO than it does to build a single-player version of it.  

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Probably budget and manpower. 

    Also, it makes more sense to spend a fraction of the money selling gamers on the single-player or solo value of the MMO than it does to build a single-player version of it.  

    This wouldn't be just about a single player experience.  I'm thinking something like MOBA, expand on the minion wave, PvE/PvP aspect.  I mean they may could make a single player of a MMO; for 5 dollars you can play an episode of World of Warcraft, you would be Thrall and doing your shamany stuff all over the place for 4-5 hours - all subscribers would be able to play for free.

    But you could also do MOBA-like stuff as an action battle arena.  Star Wars Hutball would be so licking awesome if it was a balanced MOBA.  You could choose a Star Wars legend from the franchise; Han Solo, Luke, Old Ben, and have unique abilities for each based on in-game classes.  Release about 20-30 of them, charge for a bundle or per characters (allowing f2p to earn points to unlock characters).  Make a bulk of money by selling skins or weapon skins for them in the cosmetic shop by using in game armor - all stats balanced, flat progression.

    Many MMOs could do something like this, and if done wisely, make a return on their investment.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Probably budget and manpower. 

    Also, it makes more sense to spend a fraction of the money selling gamers on the single-player or solo value of the MMO than it does to build a single-player version of it.  

    This wouldn't be just about a single player experience.  I'm thinking something like MOBA, expand on the minion wave, PvE/PvP aspect.  I mean they may could make a single player of a MMO; for 5 dollars you can play an episode of World of Warcraft, you would be Thrall and doing your shamany stuff all over the place for 4-5 hours - all subscribers would be able to play for free.

    But you could also do MOBA-like stuff as an action battle arena.  Star Wars Hutball would be so licking awesome if it was a balanced MOBA.  You could choose a Star Wars legend from the franchise; Han Solo, Luke, Old Ben, and have unique abilities for each based on in-game classes.  Release about 20-30 of them, charge for a bundle or per characters (allowing f2p to earn points to unlock characters).  Make a bulk of money by selling skins or weapon skins for them in the cosmetic shop by using in game armor - all stats balanced, flat progression.

    Many MMOs could do something like this, and if done wisely, make a return on their investment.

    If you say so. vOv

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Probably budget and manpower. 

    Also, it makes more sense to spend a fraction of the money selling gamers on the single-player or solo value of the MMO than it does to build a single-player version of it.  

    I mean they may could make a single player of a MMO; for 5 dollars you can play an episode of World of Warcraft

    Star Wars Hutball would be so licking awesome if it was a balanced MOBA.  You could choose a Star Wars legend from the franchise; Han Solo, Luke, Old Ben, and have unique abilities for each based on in-game classes.  Release about 20-30 of them

    If you say so. vOv

    I'm not say these ideas would work - there are so many possibilities it's mindboggling!  SWTOR could do anything using Heroes from that franchise and Blizzard is hitting so many genre's right now it's crazy!

  • WereLlamaWereLlama Lubbock, TXPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    I started this at the pub but I think this question may be better here. Why wouldn't developers make other standalone games using the code from their MMO?  They already have an engine, combat system, characters, armor/clothing, and a world to build upon.  Keeping everyone in the same game is very important, the next best thing is to keep them in the same universe. There is so much in MMOs, it almost seems like a waste for only one game when a small investment could fund another game to appeal to other markets.  Genres like MOBA, ARPG, lobby battlegrounds, single-player adventure (with group support) - a creative team could go crazy thinking of possibilities. These games could be priced moderately or f2p with cash shop that wouldn't even affect the original MMO.  SWTOR could make their own version of Battlefront, GW2 could make a cool siege game (similar to War of the Roses or Chivalry), or a MMO could just make a single-player survival/builder game like Minecraft.  Even if these games are horrible (which would apply more to the developers rather than the idea of making a game from a game) they could still make a profit. Warhammer already tried something like this with Wraith of Heroes.  That game was awesome fun until they made a few bad design decisions and started a crappy p2w shop (again, fault of company).  Blizzard may not be using the same code but they do reuse vital designs such as; characters, abilities, and art to make other games like Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm. The community alone could make some pretty cool games if companies allowed us to mod their games - entire genres have been created like this - Does anyone else see the potential here!?

    Most mmo's have alot of code based on the fact there are 'multiple' clients sending in movement/action requests and processing the result, then broadcasting it back out.

    The client graphics could be re-used but the bulk of the game play would most likely need to be ported from the server side to the client side.

    So... roughly 50% overlap.

    -WL

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