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[Column] General: The Decline of MMORPGs

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  • LordPerrin2LordPerrin2 Member Posts: 2

    ARCHEAGE!

     

     

  • XandramasXandramas Member Posts: 73

    Decline of mmorpgs? Written by someone in their early 20's?

     

    You werent even old enough to walk when the good ones were out.

  • I would agree that morgs are on the decline. I consider myself a morg gamer but the last two or three years rpg's have been more fun for me to play... (witcher, mass effect, neverwinter knights 2) Up to that time I had never played an rpg.  I think the genre needs to put the fun and the mystique and adventure back in the genre, those are some of the things that are missing.  I did not play uo or eq but I can hear the nostalgia as people talk about those games.  I broke in with star wars galaxies and it's still the best morg i've played, pre nge of course.  So similiar to changes in music that come about as artists challenge the contemporary style morgs will have to do the same thing for the genre to thrive and not get stale as it is now.
  • OldmanLoganOldmanLogan Member Posts: 3

    I had an idea...Lets call it Fallout Online.

     

    The theory as a MMORPG was to create multiple "servers" within the game that took place in the various countries.

    Japan had their own server, USA theirs, Brazil, Canada, UK and so on. Utilizing 1-3 major cities and surounding areas of those cities. Ie,  Manhatten and Brooklyn, Bronx, Queesn for example. London and various smaller cities sourrounding it and so on.

    The concept was the player and those from those respective countries that were to be included into the game, as Fallout was world wide, would play their respective "leveling experience" within their country.

     

    Once a player reached a specific level and had come across an alien crash site, they might have access to the alien mothership, as in Fallout 3. Once in the mothership, this gave the player access to the other countries (servers) should they complete an array of quests to get that access that might have their home country to complete them.

    Now that player has expanded their game into a new experience that May or May not involve knowledge of that countries language to communicate. Knowledge of the landscape...How many people in the USA know what Japan looks like? Rio?

    The access of getting into another country that has the Fallout landscape and new quests expands the ongoing game experience. The expansion of which could be endless in that other countries that may not have access to the game could be side instances or Raid zones. Let's say Mexico has a home server, yet panama is an instance. USA has Puerto Rico as an instance, maybe Bermuda.

    The idea here is that the MMORPG is bringing the game into more reality, just in a destroyed Earth. No hybrids no Elves or Dwarves, Just us humans that might have mutations as special abilities like enhances strength, intellegence, Dexterity...

    Think pen and paper Gamma World.

  • atuerstaratuerstar Member Posts: 234

    YOU changed.

     

    Stop projecting your mid life existential slump onto a thriving industry.

  • cmorris975cmorris975 Member UncommonPosts: 207
    Great article!  Fully agree.  I have hope, there are a lot of sandboxy games currently in development or being sold early-access on Steam that are getting a lot of attention.  I think for us "old-school" gamers the future looks quite bright, we just have to weather this last bit of post World of Warcraft detritus.
  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Member Posts: 499

    Such a true article.

     

    People are abandoning MMO's for consoles in droves because of how sadly similar every new game is to WoW. Took guts to admit the truth about GW2 on a site where every mod was deleting anything negative about the game. And every time a game like Warhammer goes under i can't help but smile because these WoW clone cashgrab deserve nothing less then complete and utter failure.

     

    Kickstarters promise to change all that but I think our hopes are far too high because even those programmers want to be rich and the only way to get rich(in their minds) is to build games for the masses. The problem with this mentality is even the ultra casuals don't want WoW anymore.

  • MoanalisaMoanalisa Member UncommonPosts: 5

    I basically agree .  Boring.  RIFT, GW2,  WOW, EQ2, etc.  They are basically the same process and frankly I have wondered why I never get that feeling I first got when I was exploring WOW.  The newness,  and adventure of it.  The social aspects were more involving.  People seemed to be more friendly.  Then it just became a level grind.  Then there was the excitement of going on your first raids the challenges to that.  Then there were the griefers in the RAIDs which started to drag it all down.  Then it was just MORE.  

    I think the RPG games are being much more successful at creating stories and worlds that are more engaging at this stage.  I would rather play an RPG game than play an MMO alone, grinding through the levels.  A MMO is just NO FUN when played alone.  If I cam going to play alone, then I will just play against the computer in an RPG.  I think the next big thing is really bringing some of these RPG's to life as social games in the MMO format.  Perhaps Elder Scrolls online will do that, but I have fear it will not. What has to happen is that worlds are created where it more realistically reflects what goes on at a social level in real life but in a Virtual world.  So you cannot really be successful unless you work and play with others.   It seems like perhaps EQ Next might be developing the concept of where the players actually create the world and can change it .   It is not static.  Your characters need to be highly personalized and you get to customize them according to the skill sets that you want to develop.   However,  I emphasize again.,  an MMO only works if you HAVE to work with others to be successful.   Otherwise, just play an RPG.

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    " I don't know where you've been for the past 14 years but highlighted in yellow shows the exact opposite as to what's happening in the market today"

    Exact opposite? Huh? So EQ and DAOC and Anarchy Online had a 14.9 Billion dollar business? O?Really?

    MMOs are bigger then ever and LESS stagnated then the other segements. Platformers? Same thing with better graphics. Shooters? same thing with better graphics. RPGs - I don't think I seen one better then Baldur's Gate. Race games - same thing with better graphics. Sports same thing with better graphics.

    This all stems from a lack of appreciation for the developers. Developing MMOs is pretty rough. Computers are basically glorified light switches.. It might seem 'easier' to go from EQ to a game with an intelligent AI and a living breathing dynamic world then it is to tack on some nice graphics and change the game design a little. But it's not.

    Change is evolutionary in gaming - not revolutionary. Take GW2 for example - dynamic events are basically glorified escort quests. But they are still better then the escort quests in WoW, or the RIfts in RIft or the Fates in FFXIV.

    50 years from now we might have the game you guys want..but in the meantime I will be enjoying the 'stagnant' themeparks. Maybe EQ:N will be a step forward I kinda doubt it but we get to find out.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788

    I think publishers are just dealing with the reality of how expensive traditional MMO's are to design and operate.  The industry has no shortage of failed examples, so now they have shifted priorities from creating good games to creating average games with lots of options for monetization.

    It's why we are left with the GW2's and the Neverwinter's focused on getting us to buy another loot box (or key) or something, rather than any concerted effort to create and nurture a virtual world.

    You make me like charity

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    Mmmorpg's as an entity is still taking its baby steps, there's very few games outside the traditional-themepark tab-target style games. Sure I can think of few, EVE (still with targeting, auto-aiming guns and traditional hotbar ability use), there's also uh, err, well TERA for example, kind of, for not having the traditional combat, but everything else along with the feel of the world is a direct copy pasta ofcourse. Anyway, point being, the rest 20 titles that comes to mind are just different shades of EQ/WoW.

     

    1st person shooter sci-fi mmorpg would be my favourite, maybe in 10 years who knows? Or 1st person/3rd person post apocalyptic shooter mmorpg with combat vehicles serving as "mounts" etc (Defiance with bigger budget and better suited team). 1st person space sim mmorpg with hopefully avatar gameplay too. I'd love to see those kinds of games, they just dont exist, all we have are fantasy wow clones piling up, so ultimately the genre has not even taken off, it's still gaining speed on the runway.

  • geelgeel Member UncommonPosts: 93

    Completely agree. The MMO genre is not in decline but the traditional MMORPG is dissapearing. I think most ppl who disagree werent playing mmorpg's with us 15 years ago. There is too much emphasis on instant gratification in modern mmorpg's. Too much "I want to have fun when I log in and fun should be had anywhere at any time". Back in the day I found the fun in the "working towards something", doing such would immerse me in this alternate world. Now there is not really anything to work towards or to anticipate.

    Gear will usually come from quest rewards so there is no need to search for that in the world. Skills come with levels. Stats are raised automatically. All progression is not locked so you can just reset, making rerolling chars unnecessary. All that can be found in the world is experience, and even that is found in the form of simple quests. I remember in the old MMORPG's there would be popular places in the world where you would log out and where players would crowd. It was not in town :S I want back the interesting world of old, not questhubs and mandatory fetch routes in between those.

    Modern mmorpg's simply don't offer that, literally none of them do (well maybe a few half baked exceptions). Because MMORPG is for a niche group. Profit, and the increasing market make it so it appeals to a bigger group. This creates games in between true mmorpg's and something else... GW2 is the biggest example. Lot's of my friends (who hated all the mmorpg's I used to play) now play GW2.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759

    IN DECLINE, as in not evolving in the direction rpg players hoped the genre was heading. 10 Years ago mmorpg players thought that we had only seen the tip of the iceberg and as the tech became faster, better we would see virtual worlds of grand proportions. More believeable second worlds, more advanced npc mechanics to have them come alive, better ai, better combat systems, and in general game mechanics that would blow our minds.

    Unfortunately this stuff is very hard to make, and can't be measured directly into dolla, and so is not getting funded. Specific mechanics like pvp, tradeskill, level tiers, instance numbers and lenght, daily treats for retention, can however be measured into dolla much easier, so for devs has become a matter of getting the most marks on the checklist, and naturally on a tight budget They have to do the best they can, prioritize, make simple mechanics as not to drown themselves.. And so here we are.

     

    PROGRESSING, as in changing into something else. Not really stalled, just taken a turn and driving towards a different type of game. The new ideas and inventions are there, and it is clear that there are many players who like that direction and feel their kind of game is just getting better each year, just check out any gw2 thread here. The idea is that Gaming should be easy and fun, and something you can play for shorter spans of time and not having to face too many consequences or choices.

    I have long argued that this direction really is a new genre or atleast a subgenre and should have a new name, because to me they are not rpg and only partially massive multiplayer. Which direction these nonmmos are heading I can't predict, also because they are not that interesting to me at this point, but surely they are progressing and I think OP is right in a few years we will see some interesting things happen.

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 485

    You have a talent for journalistic hyperbole and generally making stuff up. There's a reason you're writing for this site :)

  • Safety2ndSafety2nd Member UncommonPosts: 4

    I blame the move to theme park style games. This created the culture of the content locusts. My girlfriend made a point about a time when every detail in the game and how to complete everything quickly wasn't posted everywhere on the net. All the how to guides are clear evidence of this transition. She was part of one of the bigger guilds back in EQ and figuring stuff out for yourself brought pride to the group. Those days are gone. I see some of this as evidence of the decline of our culture as a whole. This need for instant gratification. Of needing to be first or get the the end as quick as possible. I have been and always will be pissed at blizzard for feeding this mentality. Sure it got them profit but it also did loads of damage to the genre and the players themselves. Constant post level cap content became expected. Read the articles these days and you always hear comments about how end game is shaping up. Why are we talking end game before the game is even released. I played wow almost upon release and never had a level cap character until recently. Some of that had to do with switching servers with friends but most was because I just took my time and experienced the world.

     

    I ask this, if all the cool stuff and game focus is in/on end game why then have all the levels before it? If I want to just dungeon crawl, which is all end game wow had become, I'll just log into TL2, PoE, D3 or other games that have done that part better or don't pretend to be anything more than that. Vindictus stripped away all the fluff. It's fun to play cause it is what it is and it does it well.

     

    I play MMORPGs for community. For massive multiplayer interaction. The was a game years ago called Dark Ages where you couldn't even pick you class unless you did several quests AND had a fellow player sponcer you. It was amazing. I'm exited for Archage and EQ next cause at lea to paper they bring some of that community stuff back. All this is also why we are seeing more games with perma death. Makes you care about your actions, instead of just clicking auto attack and making a sand witch.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219

    3d Graphics have held mmo-rpg games back the most, I'd argue. Looking at a pretty screen but not doing enough is the plague of mmorpgs.

  • LungingWolfLungingWolf Member Posts: 73

    I think that the current picture of the MMORPG industry's quality has two sides to it. On one side of it, it has become more mainstream in terms of reaching more audiences and, thus, it is generating more money and technically expanding. However, on the other side of it, the price of the former expansion is a decrease in the quality of content in general in MMORPGs (both relative to updated standards as time passes and an actual decline in quality)—the wider the audience, the lower the common denominator which is needed to accommodate their wants and needs.

    But, in essence, you could call the problem the “quality bubble” of the MMORPG industry. MMORPG gamers in general are progressively moving on in their tastes while MMORPGs stay the same in general, except for new MMORPG gamers who are still discovering MMORPGs for the first time and veteran MMORPG gamers who still like what is there (at least enough to play it). These two groups are keeping the MMORPG industry "filled up" with players and income. But, once the MMORPG industry exhausts these two resources, this bubble will burst and the MMORPG industry will have to adapt or die.

    In fact, I think that the popularity of F2P/B2P + Cash Shop + Optional Subscription schemes is already revealing a weakening in this bubble's surface tension. Players simply don't feel that there is much content out there which is worth paying for.

    The bubble is here because MMORPG companies failed to innovate. Back in the “let’s copy WoW” time, MMORPG companies should have been, at the very least, developing “WoW 2.0” by adding to WoW with a new layer of innovative features. Instead, they didn’t—they just wanted a piece of WoW’s pie. Now, having learned from “WoW 2.0” (and even “WoW 3.0”) and variations of it, we should be nearing the time of the next generation of MMORPGs which introduce new concepts to us. Instead, MMORPG companies are still struggling with developing “WoW 2.0” and taking slow, financially safe steps forward. So, even now, we still need the same innovation as players move on in their tastes years later.

    Creativity takes time, deep analysis, thinking outside the box, and passion. Heck, I’m still struggling to compose my suggestions for how to improve Rift. (I still believe in Trion’s potential.) But, MMORPG companies—at least their management—don’t understand this. All they understand is quick opportunities, budgets, deadlines, the investors’ expectations, saving face, and all of that “we expect results NOW” business blather. Hence, they’re failing again and again in a very timely manner.

    So, Mr. Tingle is essentially correct. But, to be clear, I wouldn’t say that the MMORPG industry is “in decline”. I would say that it is a growing bubble which is getting ready to burst in the near future, if the health of the industry is not put over the importance of safe investments and profits soon.

    Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).

    Keeping an eye on: www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258

    An industry that becomes stagnant always sees declines.

    What are the two so called biggest soon to be released MMOs? The MMOs the industry is pushing the most, every site and fanboys?

    WIldstar and TESO.

    Neither game is advancing the genre, neither game is innovative, neither is offering anything that MANY other games already offer. Its a "me to" genre right now, run by corporations that want nothing but money. They are not creating products, they are creating revenue and if the game doesn't come first, it ends up being just like everything else on the market because that's the "safe" thing to do.

    That is the reason why you have to look to kickstarter projects, small companies, foreign companies not locked into the "money comes first" perspective of western companies. Once you do that, you find the genre is jumping with new ideas, risky projects and actual innovation.

    It will take nothing short of a miracle game to ever make me playing another MMO by Turbine, Funcom, EA or Blizzard ever again and with Zenimax's bastardization of TESO, TES 6 is going to have to be a mega game for me to support it again. I am sick of giving my money to games created by companies under the thumb of corporations controlling the development process.

    Archeage, Shroud of the Avatar, Bless, Ein, The Repopulation, EQ:Landmark are some of the few upcoming projects I will support because they are the only ones with enough balls to try something NEW and move the genre forward. Yes, EQ Landmark is being made by Sony, a corporation, but they are showing they are willing to try something risky, so they get credit for that.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
     
     
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I'd like to know how a genre that goes up in population and up in profit every year is in decline ? Driving towards a cliff ...maybe. But till to actually goes off that's just an opinion.

    What I notice most about the genre is how much stock people put into forums. This is what everyone thinks, and everyone is somehow represented by what you read here......really ?

    The market is evolving to represent what people are willing to pay for. That leaves a lot of people out. They are bored with what the genre has to offer and they are VERY vocal about it. Nothing about the actual numbers indicates they are a majority representing what " most" people want. The complaint department is full of people who are unhappy with what they bought...that doesn't mean the store is as well.

    When a poll on this site has 200 votes and people can sit back saying see the evidence is in ...this is what people want! you have to wonder about someones math skills. 400 million people play " mmos" and 200 votes on a notoriously negative troll site tell you "most" people think this ?

    I don't think anyone could successfully argue that MMORPGs are in a financial decline.  I don't think they could argue against MMORPGs being a popular form of entertainment either.

    However, players saw what MMORPGs were capable of in 1999, and then imagined what they could be capable of in 2009 and beyond.  What they imagined was something that was unrelated to any sort of financial reality.  Fully immersive 3D worlds with intelligent AI and dynamic, living ecosystems.  Never mind that even at the start of the genre people mostly just wanted to kill stuff.  The potential was something that could only be imagined in a SciFi book or MMORPGs.  It didn't turn out that way.

    It didn't turn out that way because game developers started listening to the unwashed masses, The reason old MMO's were awesome is because they were inspired.  The people making them were making games they wanted to play, not games they thought other people *would pay for*.

    Thats the sad absurdity of it all, all this talk about why the genre is where it is and all the different points of contention and they are all wrong.  Its literally because the genre became the equivalent of Michelangelo doing surveys and data mining to determine what his next sculpture should be.  Rather than relying on his own creative genius and natural talent to determine that.

     

    If MMORPGs could be built by a single person, or even a team of two people, that would be a very apt analogy.  It's not possible though.  Not unless you're talking about a 2D overhead view style MMORPG using the Eclipse Origins engine.  Even there, it's a lot of work.  To get the same number of people playing those games as we have playing the currently running MMORPGs, we would need thousands of little MMORPGs all developed and running at the same time.

     

    The video game industry is much more like the current movie industry than the indie fueled hobby it started as.  It costs a lot of time and money to build a video game, and it costs a lot more time and money to build an MMORPG.  That's why these "cheap" Kickstarters are to build demos, not complete MMORPGs.  When it costs as much as it costs to just get started on an MMORPG, and it only really works when you have people with years of experience doing it, then one of the things that's going to get dropped is a lot of risky things.  Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot of creative genius happening, but it's happening within a set of boundaries.

     

    Me, personally, after having played an older game, played a bunch of newer games, and then going back to play the older game, I can say I'm disappointed in the direction the industry went.  I would have preferred that inventive, crazy, world building thing instead.  Looking at it rationally, I can see how that's not really even possible.  Not with the expense of creating video games and MMORPGs in particular.  It makes me a little sad, but then again, other things are showing promise.  Things like games with private servers or player run servers might be "where it's at" in the future.  Than again, I was pretty wrong about where MMORPGs were going to go, so maybe I'm just getting my hopes up. :-(

     

    Meh.  I can always play things like The Walking Dead or A Wolf Among Us, now. If nothing else, I can play Minecraft.  :-)

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RinnaRinna Member UncommonPosts: 389

    I think it boils down to the old mmo players who arrived on the scene playing word based games only and learned how to use their imaginations and make the games what they wanted.  The devs just had to plunk down a huge, expansive world and the players did the rest and had an amazing time.  

    Now you have a new gen of players that has arrived playing consoles and is used to being fed content and entertainment and they just devour everything handed and move on looking for more more more and the game has changed for both camps.

    Although the game companies see the revenue in combining the PC and console gamer factions, I see it destroying the mmo universe.  They try and build games that satisfy both camps and fail every time.  I liked it better when console and PC gaming were both their 'own thing'.  

    Hahah, I feel like the locust swarm has arrived in the MMO.  

    No bitchers.

  • LeGrosGamerLeGrosGamer Member UncommonPosts: 223
    Originally posted by SBFord

    Give me a moment to get down dirty and all controversial. Think of this statement as a written, MMO-centric cousin to the Miley Cyrus 'twerk' or even the last howl of a man with nothing left to lose. Ready? The MMORPG genre is in decline. I'm sensing a thousand crazy eyes glaring in my direction, but like an intrepid adventurer I'll continue to pose my declaration of war. 

    Read more Tingle's Touchy Subjects: The Decline of MMORPGs.

    image

    What's so controversial on saying a fact that the MMO genre is in decline?   Seriously, it makes a whole lot more sense then saying TESO will be the GOTY.   The main problem with today's releases is the fact that they are not thinking outside the box any more when it comes to Fantasy type MMOs.   Devs / Pubs are creating games for the masses instead of niches and when that fails, they release a new MMO with barely no changes to the previous release.    This is why I've been saying for about a year now, indie devs and space sims will be the future of MMOs.   Indie games are niche orientated and space sims, well let's face it, we don't have a whole lot of space sims besides EVE and maybe PlanetSide 1 & 2.   Star Citizen has more backers then the amount of members registered to MMORPG.com.   Now for those who are telling me TESO will be way better then SC, just look at yourselves and your claims on to why the MMO fantasy genre is such in decline. And don't give me the genre difference bull. What's the difference between TESO and the 100 other releases before it?   The MMO Fantasy genre isn't bringing  any new blood. When you got more people leaving 3D graphics and are joining 2D side scrolling games and are having more fun with those type of games, go figure.    To come back with TESO, it can be a good game, if it were released back in 2004 ~ 2006, back when there weren't that many choices yet.  But today? Such a bad timing and such a waste of money. Should of just Xpaced Skyrim to allow multi player functions and work from there. TESO like many other releases before it, will just be that other MMO no one cared about, that also includes ArcheAge.

     

      WildStar on the other hand can be decent, that is for those who never played WoW. What I mean is take 2 game play trailers of Wildstar and WoW side by side, there is no difference what so ever.  If Wildstar devs think of stealing WoW subs to survive, they might as well throw in the white towel, because it won't happen. The only major crowd that WildStar might lure in, are those who started WoW too late and want to be part of the game growth from the beginning.

     

      What I would really like to see happening in the MMO Fantasy genre, are more games with the battle system of Atlantica Online & Fairy Land.  It's sooo much more refreshing then all these releases.  It's more of a chess match rather then a zerg fest.  I've played them and stopped because 1- Fairy Land is a ghost town MMO    2- Atlantica online requires you to be a pro sports athlete doing 2-3 million a year.   

     

     As far as the other MMO genres are concerned, they will start booming in 2015. We can always hope for a late 2014 release of Elite Dangerous, but that would be pushing it.   So let's just say that 2014 would be the perfect year on building that i7 PC bomb to be ready for all the action packed space sims coming our way in 2015 !  :D

  • HemorrhagexHemorrhagex Member UncommonPosts: 1
    I actually think this will be our saving grace: www.everquestnext.com as well as Elder Scrolls Online. As far as other MMO's are concerned though they all pretty much blow as far as the ones that have recently come out.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Hmmm.  Back in the day, there was the idea that MMORPGs could become virtual worlds in time.  People dreamed of it.  That promise never materialized with MMORPGs.  But then, it never materialized anywhere else.  I remember there being a big hullabulloo about VRML and how people were going to create virtual worlds there too, but it never happened.

    I think the decline in MMORPGs can be linked to the decline in the widespread commercial viability of virtual worlds.  There's widespread commercial viability in games, but not worlds.  Figure out how to make worlds something you can make money off of, whether or not they are in games, and you'll see a resurgence in MMORPGs as worlds.

    Funny thing is that to me the game that gets closest to a virtual world, is Minecraft. Not a MMO ofc because even on the largest servers, the community is still relatively small compared to a MMO's community.  But it has all the required ingredients for a virtual world. Especially when considering the many mods and plugins you can use to shape the virtual world rules and content to your preference.

    Minecraft is a virtual world in which you can create your own game. But maybe this is not possible (yet) on MMO scale.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Minecraft is a virtual world in which you can create your own game. But maybe this is not possible (yet) on MMO scale.

     I suggest you go take a look at EQ Landmark.

    So much is possible, and has been possible...we just have been kept in a small box by small minded developers and corporations only looking at profits.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • FrigiddeathFrigiddeath Member Posts: 8

    I rarely respond to articles like this, but I felt it would be a good excuse to get my current feelings about MMOs off my chest.  The premise of the article is only half correct.  MMOs have gotten more boring in the recent years, but not because game devs have gotten worse, but mainly because MMO players are some of the whiniest people on planet Earth.  No game is good enough, and players demand the world.  It is impossible to make most MMO players happy, in any way.  Everything is a WoW clone, or a cash grab, or "name reason #100 while this game suck and will be F2P in a month".  Seriously, it is not the game, it's you. 

     

    Does not matter if newer MMOs are better built, has more content, and are overall better games.  Let's pretend that EQ, UO, and Vanilla WoW were magical.  Let's forget the reason why most of us did random things in those game; because there was nothing else to do.  There were not better communities, just people who were bored, because there was nothing to do in those games.  Seriously, vanilla WoW, for most people, was doing UBRS over and over again or the same BGs for days.  Maybe a few tribute run in DM for shits and giggles in between sitting on top of Org bank running in circles.  That is why the best MMO stories are not about playing the game, but random shit that happened with the people around us in the game. 

     

    There was plenty of bitching back then too, but people actually were excited when things changed.  There is a reason patches from 1.6 to 1.13 were nothing but class balancing in WoW.  Back then, people eagerly awaited to see how x class would change, and then blew up the forums about it.  Did people say the game was DOOOOOOMMMED!!!, not really.  If you had a similar thing happened today, it would lead to a jihad, with people going "See, I told you this game was dumpster trash, F2P in a week".  Seriously, my problem with MMOs are not the games, but the people.  Most players, no matter how good they are, suck.

     

    Let's look at the Wildstar whole bruhaha over breast size.  First, it was people bitching they were too large.  Then the dev were like, ok we can change that.  Then it people bitching that it was just caving to "feminazi" and were terrible people for doing it.  Let's remind are self, this entire conversation is about the size of fictional characters breast.  Not game play concerns or balancing issues, BREAST SIZE. 

     

    Then you hear the other crap line "They just should have added in sliders."  This sounds like a reasonable request, but really, who the fuck cares.  99% of people would barely even adjust them.  Let's not forget that art style is important, because random person X really wants to make a 300 pound Chua just as a joke, and will never actually play them.  No, they just want to option to do it, even if they will never probably use it.  Please dev, spend count hours and money reworking the game, so I can have a feature I will seriously never use in a meaningful way.  Most people don't care about it, and it just messes with how the art style of the game is supposed to look.  While we are at it, let's petition Nintendo to shave Mario stache and force him to lose 30 pounds, because it just promote the negative stereotype of Italian plumbers, or at least give us the option to do it in game.  I mean, dev should be giving everyone options that are stupid and in no way affect game play.

     

    While I agree a lot of MMOs have come out being not ready for prime time, that does not make them really any different from games in the past.  One of the strengths of MMOs is that they can always be changed, updated, and improved on.  They don't have to start out as the "greatest game ever", just a game with an actual direction.  For all of the comments of "look at SWTOR", from what I hear most people think the game is in a much better spot today than launch.  There are more things to do and it plays a lot better.  Some complain about the monetary changes since going F2P, but that is an entirely separate issue.  There are true dumpster game, like Scarlet Blade or other game made just to make money, but anyone with an IQ of 10 or a non prepubescent boy will notice within 10 seconds of seeing an ad for it.

     

    Long story short, it is not that MMOs have gotten more boring, but MMO players have become nothing more than a group of self-entitled whiners, demanding way more than any game dev team can do.  I will bet money right now, by the end of the year, people will be doing nothing about how EQ:N and Star Citizen are dumpster game.  They seem great right now because you don't know anything about them.  There no real game play footage and all you have to go off of is the concept of the game.  When players' illusion of what the game is meets the actual reality of what the game is, this has been the normal reaction for the last 10 major MMOs.  Sadly, these games are not going to get any better treatment, no matter how good they actually are.            

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