Originally posted by finnmacool1 Sounds even worse than i imagined, forced downtime,forced grouping,1980's graphics,and a small budget kickstarter design. It is a shame that it will never see the light of day and if it does it will be every bit the unfinished disaster vanguard was, especially with silius and brad running the show. Ive long been a proponent for niche games like this with smaller teams and budgets to fill a market which even though i have zero interest i understand a small few do.
Yeah it doesn't look top notch in the graphics department, but 1980's? Lol. You've been around longer than that to know better, pops
Since there are people still talking about VG and Brad.. Here is a recent post from him on rerolled when asked about his past and if he would talk about it.
The graphics are PH's so are the models and the video. Just put together to showcase ideas the team has.
So anyway.. Brad's post..
If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.
For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and I’m still proud of it)
Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.
But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.
I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.
First of all, the graphics. My main complaint about people who start up these Kickstarter campaigns is that they don't have anything to show. Only the most desired games get a pass on this one. Otherwise you just crash and burn. Shoot, even Camelot Unchained almost failed because of this. This kickstarter is prepared. They've put in their work upfront. Don't fault them for poor visuals when they're pre-funding, that's retarded. I think the graphics and animations are ahead of where I'd expect them to be for a concept stage.
I know it's probably going to be a themepark, but for anyone who isn't busy tossing their seed all over The Repopulation, I think that some of the features described sound interesting. Death being part of the game is mentioned. I'd love to see something that's implemented similar to the Dark Souls death mechanics. Also, stealing abilities sounds cool.
A couple major knocks is the pledge levels and the subscription. First, there really isn't anything that compelling with their lowest package ($45) that gets you into the game. I mean that's basically like buying it retail, so cool, but it also doesn't really entice me to spend my money. Maybe at $30, $25. Especially when you're working on a subscription model? I'd want as many people involved as possible. Shoot, offer a $15 option for a digital copy plus one month! Keep your $45 pakcage with the special tunic and beta access, etc. for anyone who gets off on that, but damn! How many people are sitting there saying, "Cool! But I think I'll wait and see what happens when it releases." There's no value in buying in early. Unless you tell me that the item I get for $45 is like an heirloom item that scales with my level and can be transferred to my other characters. Or get one with each character. Just saying that the pledge levels don't really provide what I would consider "value". I'll probably still back it, but I won't go any higher than the $45. I just don't see anything that would make me open my wallet. Even the $45 will only come once I make sure the whole thing doesn't go sideways.
That just has to be the most uninspired MMO tagline I have EVER seen ! Is there some freeware program that generates generic MMO titles and taglines ?
Perhaps it has some deep personal meaning for Brad, but really...
Vanguard was an epic project, and would have been a killer MMO if all had gone well. However, it became a prime example of what happens to badly managed software projects. Unfortunately, MMO history since then has repeated itself a few times. Nobody seems to learn, or perhaps their ego's just get in the way of sensibility.
The fact that Crafting and PvP are stretch goals is pretty ridiculous.
Also, isn't Brad the same guy that blamed most of Vanguard's issues on budget constraints? Now he's suddenly going to whip up a new MMO with just a few million dollars?
"A mindset that Designed Downtime should be a part of the game to ensure players have time to form important social bonds."
Couldn't have said it better myself. This is so great to hear coming from a developer. I thought none of them recognized how helpful such downtime can be for the community.
The video didn't show much, I mean they are 10 experienced developers and they can't even put together an in-game Demo of 3 minutes.
I know it is pre-alpha but I think they got nothing done yet, and everything is pretty much still on paper.
The campaign will run for 2 months, I am waiting to see more before I pledge my money.
Remember Vanguard? When Microsoft was the original publisher and they finally, after years of shoveling money after money to Brad and Sigil to get the game done, demanded to see the progress on the game and all he had to show was a weak demo? The reason Microsoft dumped Sigil in the first place and why Brad had to beg SOE ( calling in a favor to his ol' buddy Smed ) to pick the game up?And then SOE had to take over completely and kick Sigil and Brad ( although Smed kept Brad for a bit as a "consultant", gotta love those favors ) to the curb just so they could get the damn game out finally?
That's what I'm seeing, all over again. Except this time he's not fleecing Microsoft, he's fleecing Kickstarter "backers". He's cut out the middle man and went straight to screwing the customer directly.
Actually your completely wrong, Microsoft and the other lead guy who was working with Brad ( forgot his name but he LOVED wow and loved killing Vg with its casual ideas) he and microsoft were FAR more responsible for VG's rough early life, no way around it.
Also SoE totally ruined the early VG experience now with that stupid " isle of Dawn" crap.
If Sigil would have had the time and funding it would have be completely different launch/future for the game.
First of all, the graphics. My main complaint about people who start up these Kickstarter campaigns is that they don't have anything to show. Only the most desired games get a pass on this one. Otherwise you just crash and burn. Shoot, even Camelot Unchained almost failed because of this. This kickstarter is prepared. They've put in their work upfront. Don't fault them for poor visuals when they're pre-funding, that's retarded. I think the graphics and animations are ahead of where I'd expect them to be for a concept stage.
First thing I thought. I don't get the complaints. Most games I've seen on Kistarter show nothing but concept art. Here, you have a 3d engine with a minimap, characters, mobs, and spells, and even animations!
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by LeGrosGamer About time we get to party like it's 1999.
^ Dark Elf SK, LFG!
Just wanted to say a quick "Thank you" on behalf of the Visionary Realms team for everyone's interest and support so far. We're currently going through everyone's feedback, questions, and concerns, and we'll be updating our kickstarter page and FAQ's regularly to try to address them as best we can.
Thank you again for your support - we're super grateful, and we can't wait to bring Pantheon to life!
First of all, the graphics. My main complaint about people who start up these Kickstarter campaigns is that they don't have anything to show. Only the most desired games get a pass on this one. Otherwise you just crash and burn. Shoot, even Camelot Unchained almost failed because of this. This kickstarter is prepared. They've put in their work upfront. Don't fault them for poor visuals when they're pre-funding, that's retarded. I think the graphics and animations are ahead of where I'd expect them to be for a concept stage.
First thing I thought. I don't get the complaints. Most games I've seen on Kistarter show nothing but concept art. Here, you have a 3d engine with a minimap, characters, mobs, and spells, and even animations!
Highly likely that all that was was a quick prototype they threw together in Unity. Something they could put together in a week.
An expectation that the path of least resistance should also be the most entertaining? Uhm... Typo or actual design philosophy needing further explanation?
I am not going to make this thread about McQuaid. If he actually did blow a multimillion dollar corporate budget on crack and hookers as some of you suggest then more power to him as I wish I could do that and get away with it too.
Some of the potential features sound interesting to me and I will keep an eye on his kickstarter. I find $45 US awfully high for a digital copy of the game and thus will only buy in if enough people have already committed to meet the 3.8 million dollar stretch goal where it might be worth it to me.
If downtime is a designed feature of advancement then I hope it has options outside of standing around in a community hub waiting. They may need some mini games like keg brawl.
There are a lot of buzzwords being thrown about and nothing but some alpha pics to show. Really to get anywhere he needed to bring more show and tell to that project page.
So the KS will continue to be updated... On the fence people aside.. If you're an old school player that misses those type of games this is your chance to put your money where your mouth is.. I know Brad and team can get this done but that only part of the reason I donated. I donated as a vote towards the future of MMOs.. I'm so bored with games.. This is also about bringing awareness to other gaming companies!
They added some tiers, including a tier with a $1 a year lifetime sub. It is above $90k, with 38 days to go, but it will need to pick up for them I think to make it.
I personally am waiting for more information, I have plenty of time to decide if I want to donate to my first kickstarter or not.
I loved EQ/VG, not thrilled with some of their mechanics, and I enjoy all aspects, like I did in VG, where I could PvP, PvE, Harvest/Craft, or even do diplomacy here and there as a break, so hate to see some of that stuff on expanded funding goals.
Wish they could of got a publisher/partner agreement from someone, that if they proved an initial funding drive, that they would get up to 'x' amount of help. I am sure they want to have it all be crowd funded, so they can do their vision of the game, but I think that Brad may be a little too polarizing for a lot of people to do that.
Originally posted by Tamanous Some of your other examples is something called conflict. Many players like that. It is something to do. Some people hate it while others consider it healthy competition and healthy competition is sorely lacking in many recent mmos. Sure it could have been more greatly refined but much of that is the foundation for the great memories people have of those older mmos. Real people in the real world have gone to war over relics and shiny bits. Billions today watch sports and hate the other team and that team's fans but we enjoy it!
Be a Saints fan in Chigago. Get screamed at. Get shoved. Get spit on. Get your life threatened. Then tell me you're having a good time.
Competition and conflict are not equivalent.
People do not like conflict, and that is as far as I am going to argue this point until you care to provide any, and I mean anything to support your ridiculous, insane, and downright ignorant claim.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
The first thing I notice is that the project is very derivative. He uses "other MMOs" as a reference point for everything. The combat is, at best, as it is in GW2 or TSW: hotbar combat with avoidable AOE. His talk of preparation suggests you may have a limited hotbar as in those games as well. He specifically states that combat will use tab targeting.
He explains that he isn't looking for a mass market, that targeting the masses would be assuring failure. I have to disagree for two main reasons. First, this approach is identical to Vanguard's. Didn't work then; won't work now. Second, you need a mass market if you want a massively multiplayer game. He may manage to actually fund the project. He may manage to actually make the game. He may manage to ship it and get his niche audience. Unfortunately, just like in Vanguard, looking for a group will be an absolute chore because of the very low population. Did we mention you can't solo?
I'm not saying niche games aren't possible. They are. But if you're targeting a niche audience, you have to design for a low population. Your game has to function when no one else is online. It's basic things like this that disappoint me.
And a subscription fee? Don't make me laugh.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
This is not the old school I'm looking for. Forced grouping? No thanks. I'm more of a sandboxie old school guy like UO, SWG and AC. You could lone wolf it all day long in those games. In those games you prepared for a journey into deeper territory and harder fights. You didn't need a group to find challenge. Maybe those old EQ yuppies are lapping this up like kool-aid served in a desert. Not me. And those stretch goals to include fundamental gameplay mechanics? Is he even listening to himself? Nah...I'm good.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by UOlover The testing that you are paying for will be going on way before 2017. Brad is going to make sure this one has a year+ testing just like EQ1 had
Well at least your honest that people will be paying Brad to test his game, but if you think they are gonna have a game ready to test in less then 3 years your crazy. Right now all they have is a few concept arts and some ideas theres 10 devs working out of their homes no office and Brads the manager with no oversight. As someone already pointed out with a 800K budget the devs will probably not be working full time on This MMO as who can afford to live off of 20k or less a year.
What you'll get is a few devs working part time while Brad does another kickstater every year for the next 6-7 years or as long as he can get away with it.
So the KS will continue to be updated... On the fence people aside.. If you're an old school player that misses those type of games this is your chance to put your money where your mouth is.. I know Brad and team can get this done but that only part of the reason I donated. I donated as a vote towards the future of MMOs.. I'm so bored with games.. This is also about bringing awareness to other gaming companies!
Brad and team couldn't get this done if someone gave them 40 million dollars and 100 developers ... Oh wait someone already did that it was called Vanguard. Now with 10 developers and not even a 10th of the budget (if they made 4 million) they are saying they are gonna do it in even less time, Seriously your dreaming.
Comments
Forced grouping [x]
Dungeon focus [x]
Getting new abilities as loot [x]
MMORPG for target audience i.e not casuals [x]
They have good ideas, definately something new. Good luck!
Yeah it doesn't look top notch in the graphics department, but 1980's? Lol. You've been around longer than that to know better, pops
Since there are people still talking about VG and Brad.. Here is a recent post from him on rerolled when asked about his past and if he would talk about it.
The graphics are PH's so are the models and the video. Just put together to showcase ideas the team has.
So anyway.. Brad's post..
If I need to, yes. I really don't want to dwell on the past -- it's time to be forward thinking and to get excited about the future. That said, you guys need to know that we've learned from our mistakes so some discussion may be appropriate. If we aren't honest and we don't learn from the past, then the past was simply a failure and a defeat. I refuse to look at it that way and we won't be defeated by the mistakes of the past, because we are going to learn from them and do a better job this time. I've learned so much, especially about myself, because of both my successes and my failures.
For me it all came in a frustrating sequence. 9 times out of 10 a person fails, fails, fails, and then succeeds (if he ever succeeds at all). For me it was 1. huge success (half a billion dollars of profit for Sony, etc.), 2. Commercial failure (I say commercial because I still think VG was awesome in many ways and I’m still proud of it)
Anyway, the success first and failure second really jacked with my mind. I became extremely arrogant, thinking whatever I touched would turn into gold. And then when things didn't work out so well on my second try it was really quite a blow to me because I had deluded myself big time. I ended up in a bad place and I never want to be back there again, ever.
But also in learning more about myself over the years, I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life: make MMOs that I and other gamers want to play. It's just who I am and it's the only thing that professionally makes me happy.
I just don't want to get bogged down in the past too much. If it makes sense to discuss something about the past, then I'll participate. But to be totally upfront and honest, I'm here primarily to promote my new game. It's a blast talking with you all, and I'm here for that as well, but let's spend most of the time here together facing forward. We will need your feedback and opinions in order to insure we make the game you guys want and that I want. It's about community building and being accessible.
Anyways, I hope that makes sense.
-Brad
First of all, the graphics. My main complaint about people who start up these Kickstarter campaigns is that they don't have anything to show. Only the most desired games get a pass on this one. Otherwise you just crash and burn. Shoot, even Camelot Unchained almost failed because of this. This kickstarter is prepared. They've put in their work upfront. Don't fault them for poor visuals when they're pre-funding, that's retarded. I think the graphics and animations are ahead of where I'd expect them to be for a concept stage.
I know it's probably going to be a themepark, but for anyone who isn't busy tossing their seed all over The Repopulation, I think that some of the features described sound interesting. Death being part of the game is mentioned. I'd love to see something that's implemented similar to the Dark Souls death mechanics. Also, stealing abilities sounds cool.
A couple major knocks is the pledge levels and the subscription. First, there really isn't anything that compelling with their lowest package ($45) that gets you into the game. I mean that's basically like buying it retail, so cool, but it also doesn't really entice me to spend my money. Maybe at $30, $25. Especially when you're working on a subscription model? I'd want as many people involved as possible. Shoot, offer a $15 option for a digital copy plus one month! Keep your $45 pakcage with the special tunic and beta access, etc. for anyone who gets off on that, but damn! How many people are sitting there saying, "Cool! But I think I'll wait and see what happens when it releases." There's no value in buying in early. Unless you tell me that the item I get for $45 is like an heirloom item that scales with my level and can be transferred to my other characters. Or get one with each character. Just saying that the pledge levels don't really provide what I would consider "value". I'll probably still back it, but I won't go any higher than the $45. I just don't see anything that would make me open my wallet. Even the $45 will only come once I make sure the whole thing doesn't go sideways.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
"Rise of the Fallen" ?
LMAO
That just has to be the most uninspired MMO tagline I have EVER seen ! Is there some freeware program that generates generic MMO titles and taglines ?
Perhaps it has some deep personal meaning for Brad, but really...
Vanguard was an epic project, and would have been a killer MMO if all had gone well. However, it became a prime example of what happens to badly managed software projects. Unfortunately, MMO history since then has repeated itself a few times. Nobody seems to learn, or perhaps their ego's just get in the way of sensibility.
The fact that Crafting and PvP are stretch goals is pretty ridiculous.
Also, isn't Brad the same guy that blamed most of Vanguard's issues on budget constraints? Now he's suddenly going to whip up a new MMO with just a few million dollars?
"A mindset that Designed Downtime should be a part of the game to ensure players have time to form important social bonds."
Couldn't have said it better myself. This is so great to hear coming from a developer. I thought none of them recognized how helpful such downtime can be for the community.
Actually your completely wrong, Microsoft and the other lead guy who was working with Brad ( forgot his name but he LOVED wow and loved killing Vg with its casual ideas) he and microsoft were FAR more responsible for VG's rough early life, no way around it.
Also SoE totally ruined the early VG experience now with that stupid " isle of Dawn" crap.
If Sigil would have had the time and funding it would have be completely different launch/future for the game.
First thing I thought. I don't get the complaints. Most games I've seen on Kistarter show nothing but concept art. Here, you have a 3d engine with a minimap, characters, mobs, and spells, and even animations!
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
^ Dark Elf SK, LFG!
Just wanted to say a quick "Thank you" on behalf of the Visionary Realms team for everyone's interest and support so far. We're currently going through everyone's feedback, questions, and concerns, and we'll be updating our kickstarter page and FAQ's regularly to try to address them as best we can.
Thank you again for your support - we're super grateful, and we can't wait to bring Pantheon to life!
Highly likely that all that was was a quick prototype they threw together in Unity. Something they could put together in a week.
An expectation that the path of least resistance should also be the most entertaining? Uhm... Typo or actual design philosophy needing further explanation?
I am not going to make this thread about McQuaid. If he actually did blow a multimillion dollar corporate budget on crack and hookers as some of you suggest then more power to him as I wish I could do that and get away with it too.
Some of the potential features sound interesting to me and I will keep an eye on his kickstarter. I find $45 US awfully high for a digital copy of the game and thus will only buy in if enough people have already committed to meet the 3.8 million dollar stretch goal where it might be worth it to me.
If downtime is a designed feature of advancement then I hope it has options outside of standing around in a community hub waiting. They may need some mini games like keg brawl.
There are a lot of buzzwords being thrown about and nothing but some alpha pics to show. Really to get anywhere he needed to bring more show and tell to that project page.
So the KS will continue to be updated... On the fence people aside.. If you're an old school player that misses those type of games this is your chance to put your money where your mouth is.. I know Brad and team can get this done but that only part of the reason I donated. I donated as a vote towards the future of MMOs.. I'm so bored with games.. This is also about bringing awareness to other gaming companies!
They added some tiers, including a tier with a $1 a year lifetime sub. It is above $90k, with 38 days to go, but it will need to pick up for them I think to make it.
I personally am waiting for more information, I have plenty of time to decide if I want to donate to my first kickstarter or not.
I loved EQ/VG, not thrilled with some of their mechanics, and I enjoy all aspects, like I did in VG, where I could PvP, PvE, Harvest/Craft, or even do diplomacy here and there as a break, so hate to see some of that stuff on expanded funding goals.
Wish they could of got a publisher/partner agreement from someone, that if they proved an initial funding drive, that they would get up to 'x' amount of help. I am sure they want to have it all be crowd funded, so they can do their vision of the game, but I think that Brad may be a little too polarizing for a lot of people to do that.
Be a Saints fan in Chigago. Get screamed at. Get shoved. Get spit on. Get your life threatened. Then tell me you're having a good time.
Competition and conflict are not equivalent.
People do not like conflict, and that is as far as I am going to argue this point until you care to provide any, and I mean anything to support your ridiculous, insane, and downright ignorant claim.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Nobody's pointed it out yet, but the title is an reference to Brad himself. He's the Fallen, and this is his Rise.
If anyone hasn't already, be sure to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9nYMMluAMY. Brad gives a bit more elaboration on what kind of game this is.
The first thing I notice is that the project is very derivative. He uses "other MMOs" as a reference point for everything. The combat is, at best, as it is in GW2 or TSW: hotbar combat with avoidable AOE. His talk of preparation suggests you may have a limited hotbar as in those games as well. He specifically states that combat will use tab targeting.
He explains that he isn't looking for a mass market, that targeting the masses would be assuring failure. I have to disagree for two main reasons. First, this approach is identical to Vanguard's. Didn't work then; won't work now. Second, you need a mass market if you want a massively multiplayer game. He may manage to actually fund the project. He may manage to actually make the game. He may manage to ship it and get his niche audience. Unfortunately, just like in Vanguard, looking for a group will be an absolute chore because of the very low population. Did we mention you can't solo?
I'm not saying niche games aren't possible. They are. But if you're targeting a niche audience, you have to design for a low population. Your game has to function when no one else is online. It's basic things like this that disappoint me.
And a subscription fee? Don't make me laugh.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
This is not the old school I'm looking for. Forced grouping? No thanks. I'm more of a sandboxie old school guy like UO, SWG and AC. You could lone wolf it all day long in those games. In those games you prepared for a journey into deeper territory and harder fights. You didn't need a group to find challenge. Maybe those old EQ yuppies are lapping this up like kool-aid served in a desert. Not me. And those stretch goals to include fundamental gameplay mechanics? Is he even listening to himself? Nah...I'm good.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/mhoward48/media/OnwYv97.jpg.html
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Well at least your honest that people will be paying Brad to test his game, but if you think they are gonna have a game ready to test in less then 3 years your crazy. Right now all they have is a few concept arts and some ideas theres 10 devs working out of their homes no office and Brads the manager with no oversight. As someone already pointed out with a 800K budget the devs will probably not be working full time on This MMO as who can afford to live off of 20k or less a year.
What you'll get is a few devs working part time while Brad does another kickstater every year for the next 6-7 years or as long as he can get away with it.
Brad and team couldn't get this done if someone gave them 40 million dollars and 100 developers ... Oh wait someone already did that it was called Vanguard. Now with 10 developers and not even a 10th of the budget (if they made 4 million) they are saying they are gonna do it in even less time, Seriously your dreaming.