What else would you do in an online Elder Scrolls? Have tea parties? Games that focus on PvE end games tend to have very little replayability for me, and set unrealistic timeframes for developers to create new content to entertain me. PvP on the other hand is an unlimited source of entertainment if done well (GW1 for instance).
To use your logic, Elder Scrolls have never been about exploring content with a group, why are they including dungeons?
The Elder Scroll IP is popular for "PvE" because it is a single player franchise. However, take a look at who you fight in PvE? Besides the Skeletons, Goblins, Undead, etc, a lot of the NPCs you killed are humanoid and fulfill many different roles from beggars and brigand to lords. These NPCs are also often in conflict with other factions (Skyrim's Imperials vs. Stormcloaks for example)
It actually makes perfect sense that an MMO version of Elder Scroll would be focused on PvP. The players are fulfilling the roles of humanoids with various purposes in the world that were otherwise left to NPCs due to the single-player nature of the game.
Mind you, I don't want to defend TESO per se. Quite frankly, I'm not interested at all by this game being as I don't consider it an actual TES game other than in name only, but a MMORPG version of the TES series has always been PvP-centric in my mind because of how much focus is put on interaction with humanoid NPCs and their purpose in the world.
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely.
Yes you did. The part I quoted breaks the NDA. If you are in the beta, you are not allowed to say you are in the beta, and then qualify your opinion based on that.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle There is more PvE content in the game then there is PvP. PvP or AvA as they call it is one hub of many in the game. Having a MMO today without a sold PvP plan is a fools move IMO. Sure there are some niche markets for a pure PvE game but you want too make real money you have something for everyone. Im more shocked there is no raids nor will there ever be by the devs current stand.
pvp is the niche market where MMORPG's are concerned. There is something about the RPG formula that makes people not want to lose loot or xp or any other sort of progression just because some random player kills them. History has proven over and over just how niche pvp is in this genre.
Originally posted by Razeekster Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely.
Yes you did. The part I quoted breaks the NDA. If you are in the beta, you are not allowed to say you are in the beta, and then qualify your opinion based on that.
It's true, quote from the NDA:
Confidential Information includes, but is not limited to, all information relating to the Beta Trial, Your selection as a Beta Trial participant , the Game (including but not limited to information and ideas relating to the Game, software, software code, designs, graphics, rules, playing strategies, artwork, visual depictions, plot, theme, settings, characters, characterizations, skills, emails, screenshots, marketing emails, marketing and promotional plans, current, future or proposed products or services of ZeniMax, written or printed documents, announcements or prereleases, product samples, artwork, graphics, promotional and/or marketing items), the Beta Trial forums and other private ZeniMax forums, business and/or trade secrets, testing protocols, processes, and standards relating to the Game and/or associated products or services of ZeniMax.
Originally posted by Iselin What the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.
Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.
It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
How many MMOs out there have pvp being more important than pve, let alone the game's main focus? How many of them are as big as EQ was or WoW or FFXI and FFXIV. Of all the pvp focused MMOs out there, Eve is the only one to have a decent sized audience and there are other compelling reasons as to why it has the audience it does have that are not related to pvp.
The answer to the main question is obvious: the devs could never hope to create enough content to please fans who want an endless new steam of new stuff to do. By creating a dynamic PvP experience they hope to keep players occupied and interested over the long haul while releasing content at a pace that works for them. Of course there will be people who have no interest in PvP and so will be unhappy but they'd be unhappy anyway once they ran out of stuff to do at level cap. It's the folks who may be inclined to dabble in both whose attachment (and money) they're hoping to court.
Originally posted by Iselin What the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.
Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.
It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well.
Very much so... I would say more, but NDA
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me.
Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
And your "very much so" is an opinion based on what?
So many arguments in this thread seem to be based on a false proposition, for instance how many AAA MMO's that were released that didn't have PvP, i would go one further, and state categorically, that most of the successful MMO's are in that category, the more recent being FFXIV;ARR, which is an entirely PvE game, encouraging cooperative gameplay, although recently it added PvP, in the form of small arena based stuff which hardly counts and isn't even popular.
But then there is the Elephant that should need no explanation, World of Warcraft, is mostly, as in at least 90-95% of the game, is PvE, although the cooperative gameplay is perhaps not as 'focused' as it supports single player gameplay very well these days, and for those who like PvP, there are the various arena's, for those who must have PvP there are PvP servers, oddly enough i think there are more RP servers than PvP ones.
SW;TOR. A heavily storylined game, but again, almost entirely PvE focused and to a degree, encouraging Cooperative gameplay, what little PvP it has is really just in the form of minigames, including their latest galactic starfighter, for which popularity has fallen off so fast that if they don't make it cross server, it may as well not even exist. And as for Huttball, the less said the better, some might count SW;TOR as a failure but i don't, although admittedly its not much of a success either, but the fault there lays in its focus, Storylines, their good, but the game will always need more content because of it.
Most MMO's are focused on PvE gameplay, its just how it is, the few that didnt, the only ones i can think of that made a go of it, and succeeded, are games like Eve Online, and even that game also supports PvE gameplay, most players seem to stay in high sec, and at last count there is probably about 450k - 500k players total, which after 10 years or so, is that the kind of figure that Zenimax are looking forward to? And that is totally ignoring how players behave, what for instance, would happen in ESO, if players behaved like they do in Eve, Cyrodiil would be nothing less than a ghost town, home to a 'few' players, the rest of which would be happily going about their business in the PvE areas, as for trying to force players to enter Cyrodiil by making it the only place where trading etc can take place, players will inevitably find a way around that, they always do.
But how about DAoC, the grand daddy of the RvRvR MMO's even in its hay day it had less players than Eve has now, not exactly a success story to base a future MMO on, nostalgia has a lot to answer for i guess, i would be really interested to see how this works out, my own prediction is that Cyrodiil will initialy be well populated, and then after a few months, or perhaps just weeks, it will become the province of a few dedicated PvP'ers, preying on each other and wondering where the hell everyone else is.
Originally posted by Roxtarr Because it's basically the only thing to do at endgame? I'm not aware of much else after leveling.
Exploring the 50+ and 50++ maps (they are huge), maxing crafting and gaining the special recipes, Dungeons in hard mode (and there are lots of them), also a type of events thats like raids but not. Will take a large number of players but wont focus on one giant boss mob with people standing in a circle hitting its feet. Also they will be adding the other guilds. Unlocking special skill lines (some are going to be very hard to get) This is a few I know off the top of my head.
Exactly and that is just what we know so far and they haven't released a ton of info either so there is probably more . I don't know many MMOs ever that has more PVE content at release. They may have equal but not more.
Originally posted by Iselin What the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.
Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.
It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well.
Very much so... I would say more, but NDA
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me.
Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely. I said I didn't see proof of something that another player said their was. I didn't say it didn't have it and I didn't say it did. I didn't say anything. I also like how you didn't call up the player who actually agreed with you on the same exact thing.
Can't wait until the NDA is over though so the players who are "over the moon" about the game can be outed since all they do is say "you're breaking the NDA!" at the slightest mention of the game (when they don't seem to know the difference between breaking the NDA and just talking in general), as it seems to me the only reason they do this is because they want nothing negative said about the game.
Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.
How many MMOs out there have pvp being more important than pve, let alone the game's main focus? How many of them are as big as EQ was or WoW or FFXI and FFXIV. Of all the pvp focused MMOs out there, Eve is the only one to have a decent sized audience and there are other compelling reasons as to why it has the audience it does have that are not related to pvp.
How many AAA MMOs have actually tried to have a primary PvP focus since DAOC? One. WAR.
It was a failure, but not because it focused on PvP, plenty of people were willing to give it a shot, it just failed to deliver.
Originally posted by IselinWhat the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well.
Very much so... I would say more, but NDA
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me. Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely. I said I didn't see proof of something that another player said their was. I didn't say it didn't have it and I didn't say it did. I didn't say anything. I also like how you didn't call up the player who actually agreed with you on the same exact thing. Can't wait until the NDA is over though so the players who are "over the moon" about the game can be outed since all they do is say "you're breaking the NDA!" at the slightest mention of the game (when they don't seem to know the difference between breaking the NDA and just talking in general), as it seems to me the only reason they do this is because they want nothing negative said about the game.
Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.
You break the NDA if you say that are in Beta imo, i just read the NDA and it clearly says so.
Originally posted by IselinWhat the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well.
Very much so... I would say more, but NDA
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me. Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely. I said I didn't see proof of something that another player said their was. I didn't say it didn't have it and I didn't say it did. I didn't say anything. I also like how you didn't call up the player who actually agreed with you on the same exact thing. Can't wait until the NDA is over though so the players who are "over the moon" about the game can be outed since all they do is say "you're breaking the NDA!" at the slightest mention of the game (when they don't seem to know the difference between breaking the NDA and just talking in general), as it seems to me the only reason they do this is because they want nothing negative said about the game.
Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.
You break the NDA if you say that are in Beta imo, i just read the NDA and it clearly says so.
Devs in the beta forums said you can say your in beta. Giving any info outside of that breaks the NDA. Says what you didnt find in the game is still info about the game. He broke the NDA.
What is the Elder Scrolls IP so well known for and what do the fans love about the Elder Scrolls? The great PvE. So why is PvP being focused on so much?! I don't understand why Zenimax is making the incredibly unintelligent choice of totally ignoring the core player base of the Elder Scrolls' gamers. Most of us didn't play the Elder Scrolls' titles for it's PvP because it simply didn't exist.
We played it for it's awesome PvE experience which hasn't really even been highlighted at all in any articles or news info for TESO so I can only assume that an incredible PvE experience simply doesn't exist within TESO.
I agree, dont understand this at all,love elderscrolls games but wont play thisone due to the pvp focus.
What is the Elder Scrolls IP so well known for and what do the fans love about the Elder Scrolls? The great PvE. So why is PvP being focused on so much?! I don't understand why Zenimax is making the incredibly unintelligent choice of totally ignoring the core player base of the Elder Scrolls' gamers. Most of us didn't play the Elder Scrolls' titles for it's PvP because it simply didn't exist.
We played it for it's awesome PvE experience which hasn't really even been highlighted at all in any articles or news info for TESO so I can only assume that an incredible PvE experience simply doesn't exist within TESO.
I agree, dont understand this at all,love elderscrolls games but wont play thisone due to the pvp focus.
If you take some time to read up on the game, PvP is not the focus, its just one hub and the smallest if you take into account the size of all the PvE areas you get to explore and team up in.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by -aLpHa-Originally posted by NanfoodleOriginally posted by RazeeksterOriginally posted by IselinOriginally posted by RazeeksterOriginally posted by IselinOriginally posted by NanfoodleOriginally posted by IselinOriginally posted by NanfoodleOriginally posted by IselinOriginally posted by RazeeksterOriginally posted by IselinWhat the Elder Scrolls IP is actually known for is single player games... hard to PVP with yourself.
Yes, but why even have PvP? No where is there an MMO rulebook out there that says "Every MMO has to have PvP." This MMO looks to me as if Bethesda is just whoring out the Elder Scrolls IP. Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP.Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book? Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit.It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well. Very much so... I would say more, but NDA Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me. Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely. I said I didn't see proof of something that another player said their was. I didn't say it didn't have it and I didn't say it did. I didn't say anything. I also like how you didn't call up the player who actually agreed with you on the same exact thing. Can't wait until the NDA is over though so the players who are "over the moon" about the game can be outed since all they do is say "you're breaking the NDA!" at the slightest mention of the game (when they don't seem to know the difference between breaking the NDA and just talking in general), as it seems to me the only reason they do this is because they want nothing negative said about the game.Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.You break the NDA if you say that are in Beta imo, i just read the NDA and it clearly says so.Devs in the beta forums said you can say your in beta. Giving any info outside of that breaks the NDA. Says what you didnt find in the game is still info about the game. He broke the NDA.
Then they basically broke the contract they made with the agreeing party. You can't just go around and bind people to a contract and chose later to drop some parts of it.
it clearly states in the NDA that you are not allowed to tell that you a participant in the Beta, i even quoted it a few posts earlier.
What is the Elder Scrolls IP so well known for and what do the fans love about the Elder Scrolls? The great PvE. So why is PvP being focused on so much?! I don't understand why Zenimax is making the incredibly unintelligent choice of totally ignoring the core player base of the Elder Scrolls' gamers. Most of us didn't play the Elder Scrolls' titles for it's PvP because it simply didn't exist.
We played it for it's awesome PvE experience which hasn't really even been highlighted at all in any articles or news info for TESO so I can only assume that an incredible PvE experience simply doesn't exist within TESO.
I agree, dont understand this at all,love elderscrolls games but wont play thisone due to the pvp focus.
If you take some time to read up on the game, PvP is not the focus, its just one hub and the smallest if you take into account the size of all the PvE areas you get to explore and team up in.
There is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
What is the Elder Scrolls IP so well known for and what do the fans love about the Elder Scrolls? The great PvE. So why is PvP being focused on so much?! I don't understand why Zenimax is making the incredibly unintelligent choice of totally ignoring the core player base of the Elder Scrolls' gamers. Most of us didn't play the Elder Scrolls' titles for it's PvP because it simply didn't exist.
We played it for it's awesome PvE experience which hasn't really even been highlighted at all in any articles or news info for TESO so I can only assume that an incredible PvE experience simply doesn't exist within TESO.
I agree, dont understand this at all,love elderscrolls games but wont play thisone due to the pvp focus.
If you take some time to read up on the game, PvP is not the focus, its just one hub and the smallest if you take into account the size of all the PvE areas you get to explore and team up in.
There is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
Ok, then what Triple A MMO are you going too that has no PvP? LOL
There is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
I cant think of a single MMO in the past 8 years that hasn't balanced how skills work in PvP and PvE completely separately. Care to give us an example?
I think youll find most of the whinging is from raiders.
'My class does 10% less damage than class X! Buff me! Nerf X!'
'My tank only has 30 seconds of stoneskin while class Y has 45 seconds, its overpowered! Nerf Y!'
'Class Z heals like crap, buffs plz!'.
Every single MMO has forums full of that crap from PvE players who scrutinise parses and logs. Yet you blame the PvP players when your classes become balanced. Ridiculous.
Originally posted by VidirThere is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
I cant think of a single MMO in the past 8 years that hasn't balanced how skills work in PvP and PvE completely separately. Care to give us an example?
Originally posted by Nanfoodle There is more PvE content in the game then there is PvP. PvP or AvA as they call it is one hub of many in the game. Having a MMO today without a sold PvP plan is a fools move IMO. Sure there are some niche markets for a pure PvE game but you want too make real money you have something for everyone. Im more shocked there is no raids nor will there ever be by the devs current stand.
pvp is the niche market where MMORPG's are concerned. There is something about the RPG formula that makes people not want to lose loot or xp or any other sort of progression just because some random player kills them. History has proven over and over just how niche pvp is in this genre.
You're twisting facts here.
free for all pvp is a niche market, not all pvp. When you look at polls of what people want the largest % of voters want both but pvp has to be by choice. The smallest % is ffa pvp.
It's all whining, bitching, and moaning until you've played the game. No sense in speculating. Those of you who say you refuse to play the game will be bored out of your minds in about 8 months, after game hopping some more. You'll play the game then, and realize you probably should have just kept your e-mouth shut.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle There is more PvE content in the game then there is PvP. PvP or AvA as they call it is one hub of many in the game. Having a MMO today without a sold PvP plan is a fools move IMO. Sure there are some niche markets for a pure PvE game but you want too make real money you have something for everyone. Im more shocked there is no raids nor will there ever be by the devs current stand.
pvp is the niche market where MMORPG's are concerned. There is something about the RPG formula that makes people not want to lose loot or xp or any other sort of progression just because some random player kills them. History has proven over and over just how niche pvp is in this genre.
You're twisting facts here.
free for all pvp is a niche market, not all pvp. When you look at polls of what people want the largest % of voters want both but pvp has to be by choice. The smallest % is ffa pvp.
Wow has both...and is not a niche game.
WoW doesn't even try to force PvP on you though, and the subset of players that do engage in PvP is actually very small, and is almost entirely based on the Arena version of PvP. WoW is a PvE focused game, from dungeons to raids etc, PvP is just something that you can choose to do if you wish, most don't, that is probably one of the reasons why WoW isn't a niche game, the closest parallel to your argument, would actually be Eve online, and it clearly is a niche game, might want to take that into consideration.
Originally posted by VidirThere is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
I cant think of a single MMO in the past 8 years that hasn't balanced how skills work in PvP and PvE completely separately. Care to give us an example?
Guild Wars 1 (if you consider it a MMO).
They had skills work differently in PVP and PVE.
I asked which games hadn't taken the approach of separating PvP balance and PvE balance. GW1 did, so it proves my point. I think you misread what I wrote.
In every single MMO I have played, skills change when they are used in PvP, and they can update how they work in PvP without affecting PvE in any way shape or form.
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What else would you do in an online Elder Scrolls? Have tea parties? Games that focus on PvE end games tend to have very little replayability for me, and set unrealistic timeframes for developers to create new content to entertain me. PvP on the other hand is an unlimited source of entertainment if done well (GW1 for instance).
To use your logic, Elder Scrolls have never been about exploring content with a group, why are they including dungeons?
The Elder Scroll IP is popular for "PvE" because it is a single player franchise. However, take a look at who you fight in PvE? Besides the Skeletons, Goblins, Undead, etc, a lot of the NPCs you killed are humanoid and fulfill many different roles from beggars and brigand to lords. These NPCs are also often in conflict with other factions (Skyrim's Imperials vs. Stormcloaks for example)
It actually makes perfect sense that an MMO version of Elder Scroll would be focused on PvP. The players are fulfilling the roles of humanoids with various purposes in the world that were otherwise left to NPCs due to the single-player nature of the game.
Mind you, I don't want to defend TESO per se. Quite frankly, I'm not interested at all by this game being as I don't consider it an actual TES game other than in name only, but a MMORPG version of the TES series has always been PvP-centric in my mind because of how much focus is put on interaction with humanoid NPCs and their purpose in the world.
Yes you did. The part I quoted breaks the NDA. If you are in the beta, you are not allowed to say you are in the beta, and then qualify your opinion based on that.
pvp is the niche market where MMORPG's are concerned. There is something about the RPG formula that makes people not want to lose loot or xp or any other sort of progression just because some random player kills them. History has proven over and over just how niche pvp is in this genre.
It's true, quote from the NDA:
Confidential Information includes, but is not limited to, all information relating to the Beta Trial, Your selection as a Beta Trial participant , the Game (including but not limited to information and ideas relating to the Game, software, software code, designs, graphics, rules, playing strategies, artwork, visual depictions, plot, theme, settings, characters, characterizations, skills, emails, screenshots, marketing emails, marketing and promotional plans, current, future or proposed products or services of ZeniMax, written or printed documents, announcements or prereleases, product samples, artwork, graphics, promotional and/or marketing items), the Beta Trial forums and other private ZeniMax forums, business and/or trade secrets, testing protocols, processes, and standards relating to the Game and/or associated products or services of ZeniMax.
read it here:
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/legal
How many MMOs out there have pvp being more important than pve, let alone the game's main focus? How many of them are as big as EQ was or WoW or FFXI and FFXIV. Of all the pvp focused MMOs out there, Eve is the only one to have a decent sized audience and there are other compelling reasons as to why it has the audience it does have that are not related to pvp.
So many arguments in this thread seem to be based on a false proposition, for instance how many AAA MMO's that were released that didn't have PvP, i would go one further, and state categorically, that most of the successful MMO's are in that category, the more recent being FFXIV;ARR, which is an entirely PvE game, encouraging cooperative gameplay, although recently it added PvP, in the form of small arena based stuff which hardly counts and isn't even popular.
But then there is the Elephant that should need no explanation, World of Warcraft, is mostly, as in at least 90-95% of the game, is PvE, although the cooperative gameplay is perhaps not as 'focused' as it supports single player gameplay very well these days, and for those who like PvP, there are the various arena's, for those who must have PvP there are PvP servers, oddly enough i think there are more RP servers than PvP ones.
SW;TOR. A heavily storylined game, but again, almost entirely PvE focused and to a degree, encouraging Cooperative gameplay, what little PvP it has is really just in the form of minigames, including their latest galactic starfighter, for which popularity has fallen off so fast that if they don't make it cross server, it may as well not even exist. And as for Huttball, the less said the better, some might count SW;TOR as a failure but i don't, although admittedly its not much of a success either, but the fault there lays in its focus, Storylines, their good, but the game will always need more content because of it.
Most MMO's are focused on PvE gameplay, its just how it is, the few that didnt, the only ones i can think of that made a go of it, and succeeded, are games like Eve Online, and even that game also supports PvE gameplay, most players seem to stay in high sec, and at last count there is probably about 450k - 500k players total, which after 10 years or so, is that the kind of figure that Zenimax are looking forward to? And that is totally ignoring how players behave, what for instance, would happen in ESO, if players behaved like they do in Eve, Cyrodiil would be nothing less than a ghost town, home to a 'few' players, the rest of which would be happily going about their business in the PvE areas, as for trying to force players to enter Cyrodiil by making it the only place where trading etc can take place, players will inevitably find a way around that, they always do.
But how about DAoC, the grand daddy of the RvRvR MMO's even in its hay day it had less players than Eve has now, not exactly a success story to base a future MMO on, nostalgia has a lot to answer for i guess, i would be really interested to see how this works out, my own prediction is that Cyrodiil will initialy be well populated, and then after a few months, or perhaps just weeks, it will become the province of a few dedicated PvP'ers, preying on each other and wondering where the hell everyone else is.
Exactly and that is just what we know so far and they haven't released a ton of info either so there is probably more . I don't know many MMOs ever that has more PVE content at release. They may have equal but not more.
Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.
How many AAA MMOs have actually tried to have a primary PvP focus since DAOC? One. WAR.
It was a failure, but not because it focused on PvP, plenty of people were willing to give it a shot, it just failed to deliver.
You break the NDA if you say that are in Beta imo, i just read the NDA and it clearly says so.
Devs in the beta forums said you can say your in beta. Giving any info outside of that breaks the NDA. Says what you didnt find in the game is still info about the game. He broke the NDA.
I agree, dont understand this at all,love elderscrolls games but wont play thisone due to the pvp focus.
If you take some time to read up on the game, PvP is not the focus, its just one hub and the smallest if you take into account the size of all the PvE areas you get to explore and team up in.
Well that's a whole different, generic topic that has nothing to do with the elder scrolls IP. Is there a AAA MMO out there somewhere that has no PVP? There might be, but I can't think of one.
There are a few but are a niche market. Small MMOs with very small populations. What this thread needs to see is any IP brought to any new medium, movie, books, comics or a game. Needs too change the IP to fit the needs of that medium. MMOs require some elements to justify spending the money. Same with say a movie, would you watch a 32hr movie to make sure it kept 100% too the book?
Yeah I know. And as you know, this is a repeat theme in the ESO forums here. But the premise that there is something intrinsic to the ESO IP that is somehow offended by PVP has no merit. It's just another version of the ever-present "I didn't want this, I wanted co-op Skyrim" opinion.
And if they took 5 min to look under the hood they would see they have that as well.
Very much so... I would say more, but NDA
Um... Been in Beta too, and saw zero proof it was like Skyrim but with other players so no clue what you're talking about. I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and am a huge fan of the IP, but this just hasn't really felt like an Elder Scrolls game to me. Maybe that will change overtime though. One can only hope.
Well you have me at a disadvantage because I won't break NDA like you just did with your opinion based on beta. So I guess you win by default...
I didn't break the NDA so if you reported me, you've reported falsely. I said I didn't see proof of something that another player said their was. I didn't say it didn't have it and I didn't say it did. I didn't say anything. I also like how you didn't call up the player who actually agreed with you on the same exact thing. Can't wait until the NDA is over though so the players who are "over the moon" about the game can be outed since all they do is say "you're breaking the NDA!" at the slightest mention of the game (when they don't seem to know the difference between breaking the NDA and just talking in general), as it seems to me the only reason they do this is because they want nothing negative said about the game.
Saying you like or dislike ESO is breaking the NDA. All you can say once you are in beta, is that you are in beta. Only thing you can say outside that is what devs have confirmed. You broke the NDA.
You break the NDA if you say that are in Beta imo, i just read the NDA and it clearly says so.
Devs in the beta forums said you can say your in beta. Giving any info outside of that breaks the NDA. Says what you didnt find in the game is still info about the game. He broke the NDA.
Then they basically broke the contract they made with the agreeing party. You can't just go around and bind people to a contract and chose later to drop some parts of it.
it clearly states in the NDA that you are not allowed to tell that you a participant in the Beta, i even quoted it a few posts earlier.
There is still way to much focus on pvp wich has during the years allways result in class nerf to pleas the pvp whiners,this hurts every pve game on the market.
Ok, then what Triple A MMO are you going too that has no PvP? LOL
I cant think of a single MMO in the past 8 years that hasn't balanced how skills work in PvP and PvE completely separately. Care to give us an example?
I think youll find most of the whinging is from raiders.
'My class does 10% less damage than class X! Buff me! Nerf X!'
'My tank only has 30 seconds of stoneskin while class Y has 45 seconds, its overpowered! Nerf Y!'
'Class Z heals like crap, buffs plz!'.
Every single MMO has forums full of that crap from PvE players who scrutinise parses and logs. Yet you blame the PvP players when your classes become balanced. Ridiculous.
Guild Wars 1 (if you consider it a MMO).
They had skills work differently in PVP and PVE.
You're twisting facts here.
free for all pvp is a niche market, not all pvp. When you look at polls of what people want the largest % of voters want both but pvp has to be by choice. The smallest % is ffa pvp.
Wow has both...and is not a niche game.
WoW doesn't even try to force PvP on you though, and the subset of players that do engage in PvP is actually very small, and is almost entirely based on the Arena version of PvP. WoW is a PvE focused game, from dungeons to raids etc, PvP is just something that you can choose to do if you wish, most don't, that is probably one of the reasons why WoW isn't a niche game, the closest parallel to your argument, would actually be Eve online, and it clearly is a niche game, might want to take that into consideration.
I asked which games hadn't taken the approach of separating PvP balance and PvE balance. GW1 did, so it proves my point. I think you misread what I wrote.
In every single MMO I have played, skills change when they are used in PvP, and they can update how they work in PvP without affecting PvE in any way shape or form.