I was really disappointed that they don't have a plethora of people writing out new content for me to experience each day so that I didn't have to grind at anything to keep me busy. They should have at least 5 hours of new content produced for each day, and by new I mean new, not some cheap rehash of the previous days content. New storylines, new areas, new NPC's and if they have time, some new game skills and effects as well. If they can't live up to that, it's just another in a long list of grindy games.
I also was pretty disappointed in how they made this game pay to win. I mean they had given away trial codes, but then those players all of a sudden can't compete at all in sPvP or WvW just because the trial ran out! Now they have to cough up their hard earned dollars just to be able to compete at all! It's sickening!
I'm sure that when they started they told me I would never have to swing a sword more than once, but here I am, swinging a sword multiple times! I'm thinking about starting a petition to Anet about this abuse on their playerbase, making them repeat a skill more than once! It's just lack of effort on the developers part.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by Torcip Guild Wars 2 is grindy? Has anyone played Guild Wars 1 in this thread, you know nothing about grind.
Guild Wars 1? Grindy? What?
I know?? GW1 was anything but grindy. You could hit the cap in a few hours in the first expansion. In fact I would say the levelling experiences (and post cap experience) in GW1 was vastly superior to GW2.
I was really disappointed that they don't have a plethora of people writing out new content for me to experience each day so that I didn't have to grind at anything to keep me busy. They should have at least 5 hours of new content produced for each day, and by new I mean new, not some cheap rehash of the previous days content. New storylines, new areas, new NPC's and if they have time, some new game skills and effects as well. If they can't live up to that, it's just another in a long list of grindy games.
I also was pretty disappointed in how they made this game pay to win. I mean they had given away trial codes, but then those players all of a sudden can't compete at all in sPvP or WvW just because the trial ran out! Now they have to cough up their hard earned dollars just to be able to compete at all! It's sickening!
I'm sure that when they started they told me I would never have to swing a sword more than once, but here I am, swinging a sword multiple times! I'm thinking about starting a petition to Anet about this abuse on their playerbase, making them repeat a skill more than once! It's just lack of effort on the developers part.
How is GW2 P2W lol? A 12% stat increase in a skill based game is not much of anything. In WvW, it's completely meaningless unless you're roaming in small groups. And even then, if the opposing player is better than you, he'll still beat you, even if he only has rares. Fractals, the grindiest endgame content there is, can be beaten by people with absolutely no AR up to pretty high levels.
Again, skill based game, if you're good at it, you don't need ascended gear, or exotics. Maybe for tier 3+ fractals, and that would be it. Ascended and Legendary equipment was introduced for min/maxers who want to have that small boost, gives them something to grind for.
I agree, GW2 is not perfect, but it's definitely not P2W.
Originally posted by Torcip Guild Wars 2 is grindy? Has anyone played Guild Wars 1 in this thread, you know nothing about grind.
Guild Wars 1? Grindy? What?
I know?? GW1 was anything but grindy. You could hit the cap in a few hours in the first expansion. In fact I would say the levelling experiences (and post cap experience) in GW1 was vastly superior to GW2.
Until you got reputation based skills like Ursan Blessing or Save yourselves plus the entire lightbringer and sunspear rank.
And lets not talk how grindy some of the GW1 titles could be.
Not that I agree with the introduction of ascended items (completely unnecessary and alt unfriendly), on the other hand I think only a small group feels the need to acquire them.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
To me, Legendary Weapons are just overpriced skins. They don't make you any better and they don't make you too strong. I don't have one because I know I would get extremely bored of it in a couple of weeks. You don't need ascended and legendary items to do good in this game. I annihilate players who have legendary weapons all the time, so its not pay to win. Grinding as in repetition of activities? Yes. It's impossible in any game to always have something new.
Originally posted by rodingo I see that people still pass opinion as fact. I know,..no surprise really.
There is no such thing as objectivity. If people feel GW2 is grindy and P2W then it cannot be helped.
Tbh, GW2 feels way more grindy than GW1 ever has, because you play some chart most of the time.
If you want to experience the game's whole content, as any "normal" customer would want to, there's absolutely no grind involved. The only grind in the game is for the "ePeen" people, those who need to be "better" (in their own mind) than other because the numbers on their character sheet are slightly higher. It's nothing like WoW clones where you HAVE to complete the previous raid tier in order to be geared to do the next one.
And I like it. Even more in GW2, where it's funny to see who actually values his ePeen higher than just the fun to play a video game.
Define normal. Define fun. You make some pretty broad generalizations and assumptions. Some people like to collect things. Others like gear development. Some like the excitement of the anticipation of what loot they might get from a boss. I am not saying the GW2 is overly grindy or the cash shop is P2W because I don't believe that either of those statements is true. I just think your argument is quite flawed.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Funny, I finished my personal story and a lot of the dungeon content without hitting the exotics that you had to grind for. So as far as grind goes, Collin was accurate that the game is not a grind fest. Now if you want to get into the meager increases in stats for BIS's then by all means rage on. The game has to have some things not served up on a silver platter or there would be little point in continuing once you reach max level. The fact still remains that those grindy pieces are not necessary to do anything and are really just a way for people to have something to ascribe for. So I guess I am sorry as well if this is the mentality that the genre is spiraling towards. A shame....
Originally posted by Torcip Guild Wars 2 is grindy? Has anyone played Guild Wars 1 in this thread, you know nothing about grind.
Guild Wars 1? Grindy? What?
Yeah... That person that said Guild Wars 1 was grindy compared to GW2 apparently never played GW1... GW2 is way grindier feeling to me. Not only that but most of it besides ascended gear is utterly pointless grind.
Grindy? Yes. Pay to win? Hell no. It's only pay to win if it confers an advantage which can't be obtained through other means in the game; paying in this case merely lessens the grind / time involved.
You sound like those... how can I put this politely... 'less than articulate' people on the Path of Exile forums who think having a cosmetic pet perform a function, such as looting currency items, is pay to win. Ridiculous, to say the least.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Originally posted by rodingo I see that people still pass opinion as fact. I know,..no surprise really.
There is no such thing as objectivity. If people feel GW2 is grindy and P2W then it cannot be helped.
Tbh, GW2 feels way more grindy than GW1 ever has, because you play some chart most of the time.
If you want to experience the game's whole content, as any "normal" customer would want to, there's absolutely no grind involved. The only grind in the game is for the "ePeen" people, those who need to be "better" (in their own mind) than other because the numbers on their character sheet are slightly higher. It's nothing like WoW clones where you HAVE to complete the previous raid tier in order to be geared to do the next one.
And I like it. Even more in GW2, where it's funny to see who actually values his ePeen higher than just the fun to play a video game.
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Aeander
Originally posted by Torcip Guild Wars 2 is grindy? Has anyone played Guild Wars 1 in this thread, you know nothing about grind.
Guild Wars 1? Grindy? What?
Yeah... That person that said Guild Wars 1 was grindy compared to GW2 apparently never played GW1... GW2 is way grindier feeling to me. Not only that but most of it besides ascended gear is utterly pointless grind.
Two things: I played GW1 for 7 years, getting optimal gear could be acquired in a matter of a week, at most. Gw2 takes a lot more than that given it has way more gear tiers (and more to come, including levels). Second, way more important than the first, there is nothing to do in GW2 than to grind. In PvE, there is no single hard core dungeon (at least not in the sense of UW before Factions, Urgoz and Deep before Factions and 7 heroes, and Mallyx - forgot his location), no progression in WvW except flipping objectives and accumulating points on some arbitrary score chart, and no interesting pvp mode.
Conquest somehow suits a game that got combat way too fast for its gameplay, but it is not really interesting to watch or play. The ladder in spvp feels disconnected and there is no reason to go pvp except for training or testing. Other games feel way different and understand how your impact on play is rewarded.
That is why GW2 feels grindy. I don't see why I should play it, it all feels more like some job to keep me busy instead of a task to achieve a personal or common goal.
I crafted exotic gear for my toons and basically, getting Ascended or Legendary just gives you a cool skin, nothing more (the differences are very small and if you thinks it makes a difference in damage, etc - go take on a Veteran on Orr - you will die just as fast if you are not careful). If you like doing high level Fractals, then you HAVE to have Ascended gear - otherwise Crafted Exotic works just as well.
Originally posted by botrytis I crafted exotic gear for my toons and basically, getting Ascended or Legendary just gives you a cool skin, nothing more (the differences are very small and if you thinks it makes a difference in damage, etc - go take on a Veteran on Orr - you will die just as fast if you are not careful). If you like doing high level Fractals, then you HAVE to have Ascended gear - otherwise Crafted Exotic works just as well.
An advantage, regardless of how big or small, makes a difference to me. I want to be challenged, not my toon.
Originally posted by botrytis I crafted exotic gear for my toons and basically, getting Ascended or Legendary just gives you a cool skin, nothing more (the differences are very small and if you thinks it makes a difference in damage, etc - go take on a Veteran on Orr - you will die just as fast if you are not careful). If you like doing high level Fractals, then you HAVE to have Ascended gear - otherwise Crafted Exotic works just as well.
An advantage, regardless of how big or small, makes a difference to me. I want to be challenged, not my toon.
If you want to be challenged, then just wear green or blue gear and things will be tougher. Or did you mean, that you wanted to be challenged in how hard it was to get the gear?
EDIT: In all honesty, I can see what you're probably getting at. I have fond memories of playing the difficult instances like The Deep and such. Unfortunately, those places had a very specific grouping that was followed and it made it harder for some classes to find a group. Thats what they wanted to get away from.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I agree with your points, OP, totally. Must admit, though, I like grinding. One of the reasons I play MMORPGs is to relax, and I find this aspect perfect for that. I can see why it would put a lot of other players off, though.
Originally posted by rodingo I see that people still pass opinion as fact. I know,..no surprise really.
There is no such thing as objectivity. If people feel GW2 is grindy and P2W then it cannot be helped.
Tbh, GW2 feels way more grindy than GW1 ever has, because you play some chart most of the time.
If you want to experience the game's whole content, as any "normal" customer would want to, there's absolutely no grind involved. The only grind in the game is for the "ePeen" people, those who need to be "better" (in their own mind) than other because the numbers on their character sheet are slightly higher. It's nothing like WoW clones where you HAVE to complete the previous raid tier in order to be geared to do the next one.
And I like it. Even more in GW2, where it's funny to see who actually values his ePeen higher than just the fun to play a video game.
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Aeander
Originally posted by Torcip Guild Wars 2 is grindy? Has anyone played Guild Wars 1 in this thread, you know nothing about grind.
Guild Wars 1? Grindy? What?
Yeah... That person that said Guild Wars 1 was grindy compared to GW2 apparently never played GW1... GW2 is way grindier feeling to me. Not only that but most of it besides ascended gear is utterly pointless grind.
Two things: I played GW1 for 7 years, getting optimal gear could be acquired in a matter of a week, at most. Gw2 takes a lot more than that given it has way more gear tiers (and more to come, including levels). Second, way more important than the first, there is nothing to do in GW2 than to grind. In PvE, there is no single hard core dungeon (at least not in the sense of UW before Factions, Urgoz and Deep before Factions and 7 heroes, and Mallyx - forgot his location), no progression in WvW except flipping objectives and accumulating points on some arbitrary score chart, and no interesting pvp mode.
Conquest somehow suits a game that got combat way too fast for its gameplay, but it is not really interesting to watch or play. The ladder in spvp feels disconnected and there is no reason to go pvp except for training or testing. Other games feel way different and understand how your impact on play is rewarded.
That is why GW2 feels grindy. I don't see why I should play it, it all feels more like some job to keep me busy instead of a task to achieve a personal or common goal.
The only reason you do FoW/UW, Deep/Urgoz or Domain of Anguish (Mallyx is in there) was to grind items.
All you did in GW1 after completing the story was grinding.
Having 2 GWAMM and Champion of the Gods, I can tell you what GW1 PvE was about (and before the last couple years where the grind was reduced, omg, it was grindy).
It is true that ascended has better stats than exotics while something like Vabbian or FoW armor didn't have better stats.
It is also true that takes longer to reach level 80 than it took to reach level 20 in GW1 (at least after factions, prophecies was slow as hell), but it takes around 100-120 hours to reach level 80, hardly grindy.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I ran the elite dungeons for HoM achievements and before that with a couple of friends/guildies for fun and challenge. I found the stories in GW1 much more involving and often better. GW2 stories feel generic after lvl 20 and I didn't bother with the "living" story after missing the second part of flame and frost. At least you can replay the story-relevant missions in GW1. Only once felt GW1 grindy, when I had to grind for sunspear/lightbringer.
I never had to grind for equipment in GW1, I have to in GW2, that's a big difference to me.
100-120 hours actually is a lot. I can complete Skyrim, AC 4, Arkham City and a campaign in Rome 2 in that time. I won't argue which is more fun.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter Originally posted by IPolygon
An advantage, regardless of how big or small, makes a difference to me. I want to be challenged, not my toon.The way to survive is good timing of dodges and defensive skills and those are not altered an ounce by ascended gear.
Comments
I definitely agree with these. But, as I have said before, I have definitely gotten my money's worth out of GW2.
I was really disappointed that they don't have a plethora of people writing out new content for me to experience each day so that I didn't have to grind at anything to keep me busy. They should have at least 5 hours of new content produced for each day, and by new I mean new, not some cheap rehash of the previous days content. New storylines, new areas, new NPC's and if they have time, some new game skills and effects as well. If they can't live up to that, it's just another in a long list of grindy games.
I also was pretty disappointed in how they made this game pay to win. I mean they had given away trial codes, but then those players all of a sudden can't compete at all in sPvP or WvW just because the trial ran out! Now they have to cough up their hard earned dollars just to be able to compete at all! It's sickening!
I'm sure that when they started they told me I would never have to swing a sword more than once, but here I am, swinging a sword multiple times! I'm thinking about starting a petition to Anet about this abuse on their playerbase, making them repeat a skill more than once! It's just lack of effort on the developers part.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I know?? GW1 was anything but grindy. You could hit the cap in a few hours in the first expansion. In fact I would say the levelling experiences (and post cap experience) in GW1 was vastly superior to GW2.
Strawman much?
How is GW2 P2W lol? A 12% stat increase in a skill based game is not much of anything. In WvW, it's completely meaningless unless you're roaming in small groups. And even then, if the opposing player is better than you, he'll still beat you, even if he only has rares. Fractals, the grindiest endgame content there is, can be beaten by people with absolutely no AR up to pretty high levels.
Again, skill based game, if you're good at it, you don't need ascended gear, or exotics. Maybe for tier 3+ fractals, and that would be it. Ascended and Legendary equipment was introduced for min/maxers who want to have that small boost, gives them something to grind for.
I agree, GW2 is not perfect, but it's definitely not P2W.
Until you got reputation based skills like Ursan Blessing or Save yourselves plus the entire lightbringer and sunspear rank.
And lets not talk how grindy some of the GW1 titles could be.
Not that I agree with the introduction of ascended items (completely unnecessary and alt unfriendly), on the other hand I think only a small group feels the need to acquire them.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
There is no such thing as objectivity. If people feel GW2 is grindy and P2W then it cannot be helped.
Tbh, GW2 feels way more grindy than GW1 ever has, because you play some chart most of the time.
Define normal. Define fun. You make some pretty broad generalizations and assumptions. Some people like to collect things. Others like gear development. Some like the excitement of the anticipation of what loot they might get from a boss. I am not saying the GW2 is overly grindy or the cash shop is P2W because I don't believe that either of those statements is true. I just think your argument is quite flawed.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
as someone who got GWAMM, hell no
Yeah... That person that said Guild Wars 1 was grindy compared to GW2 apparently never played GW1... GW2 is way grindier feeling to me. Not only that but most of it besides ascended gear is utterly pointless grind.
Smile
Grindy? Yes. Pay to win? Hell no. It's only pay to win if it confers an advantage which can't be obtained through other means in the game; paying in this case merely lessens the grind / time involved.
You sound like those... how can I put this politely... 'less than articulate' people on the Path of Exile forums who think having a cosmetic pet perform a function, such as looting currency items, is pay to win. Ridiculous, to say the least.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
Two things: I played GW1 for 7 years, getting optimal gear could be acquired in a matter of a week, at most. Gw2 takes a lot more than that given it has way more gear tiers (and more to come, including levels). Second, way more important than the first, there is nothing to do in GW2 than to grind. In PvE, there is no single hard core dungeon (at least not in the sense of UW before Factions, Urgoz and Deep before Factions and 7 heroes, and Mallyx - forgot his location), no progression in WvW except flipping objectives and accumulating points on some arbitrary score chart, and no interesting pvp mode.
Conquest somehow suits a game that got combat way too fast for its gameplay, but it is not really interesting to watch or play. The ladder in spvp feels disconnected and there is no reason to go pvp except for training or testing. Other games feel way different and understand how your impact on play is rewarded.
That is why GW2 feels grindy. I don't see why I should play it, it all feels more like some job to keep me busy instead of a task to achieve a personal or common goal.
An advantage, regardless of how big or small, makes a difference to me. I want to be challenged, not my toon.
If you want to be challenged, then just wear green or blue gear and things will be tougher. Or did you mean, that you wanted to be challenged in how hard it was to get the gear?
EDIT: In all honesty, I can see what you're probably getting at. I have fond memories of playing the difficult instances like The Deep and such. Unfortunately, those places had a very specific grouping that was followed and it made it harder for some classes to find a group. Thats what they wanted to get away from.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
A great list of free games (mostly MMORPGs): http://www.mytop10games.com/
The only reason you do FoW/UW, Deep/Urgoz or Domain of Anguish (Mallyx is in there) was to grind items.
All you did in GW1 after completing the story was grinding.
Having 2 GWAMM and Champion of the Gods, I can tell you what GW1 PvE was about (and before the last couple years where the grind was reduced, omg, it was grindy).
It is true that ascended has better stats than exotics while something like Vabbian or FoW armor didn't have better stats.
It is also true that takes longer to reach level 80 than it took to reach level 20 in GW1 (at least after factions, prophecies was slow as hell), but it takes around 100-120 hours to reach level 80, hardly grindy.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I ran the elite dungeons for HoM achievements and before that with a couple of friends/guildies for fun and challenge. I found the stories in GW1 much more involving and often better. GW2 stories feel generic after lvl 20 and I didn't bother with the "living" story after missing the second part of flame and frost. At least you can replay the story-relevant missions in GW1. Only once felt GW1 grindy, when I had to grind for sunspear/lightbringer.
I never had to grind for equipment in GW1, I have to in GW2, that's a big difference to me.
100-120 hours actually is a lot. I can complete Skyrim, AC 4, Arkham City and a campaign in Rome 2 in that time. I won't argue which is more fun.
The way to survive is good timing of dodges and defensive skills and those are not altered an ounce by ascended gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeHe_pIDX-U
This video is before ascended armor.
If you cant solo something like the Lupicus with exotic armor you won't be able to do it with ascended armor.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The way to survive is good timing of dodges and defensive skills and those are not altered an ounce by ascended gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeHe_pIDX-U
This video is before ascended armor.
If you cant solo something like the Lupicus with exotic armor you won't be able to do it with ascended armor.
Dodging and defensive skills are useless against agony.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower