If it's f2p I don't care what's in the cash shop as long as if they've allowed ppl to buy endgame gear I can still get similar quality gear if I put in the time.
If it's b2p cosmetic items/boosts only. U can throw ur gambling boxes and keys in there too, idc cuz I'm not likely to try to buy a bunch of boxes and keys since I'm not a big gambler.
Not free to play game developers have little incentive to actually have monthly updates introducing content. There is more incentive to create gimmicks for people to spend their money on. Their games have no long term potential.
I like sub games better, keeps the bot's/gold farmers to a minimum. It also keeps the rift raft out of the game as well. Also on average has an older client base due to needing a credit card.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by shadow9d9 Not free to play game developers have little incentive to actually have monthly updates introducing content. There is more incentive to create gimmicks for people to spend their money on. Their games have no long term potential.
I've played both, and honestly, I don't care what the monetization model is.
I have no problem supporting a product that I find entertaining - be it a sub or cash shop or what ever.
I agree with you as long as the monetization model does not start to interfere with my enjoyment of the game. I have played way to many F2P games where you hit a pay wall while playing that I personally find a big turn off. You either have to change your play style to something less enjoyable to grind though the wall or pull out your pocket book to pay though it. I don't have a problem paying though it except that every time I have it's just to find there is another and another pay wall stacked right behind them. At what point does it end? At least with a sub or at least with how a sub should work you know going into it how much that is going to be.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
The thing is, I don't care what it costs if it's a truly great game. There just aren't any truly great games and the communities in every single game suck, therefore I cannot imagine any game worth paying a sub for, or even worth playing for free. Money isn't the issue, having a fun time is. If I'm not having fun, and I don't in modern MMOs anymore, then I just don't do it at all, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is.
Well, there are plenty of great SP games, or MMOs that are good enough SP games. Forget about community. Strangers are not dependable for fun in a video game. There are plenty of other ways that i enjoy.
I am playing single player games but there aren't enough of them. I used to play MMOs in between good SP games. Today, I just find something else to do.
Originally posted by shadow9d9 Not free to play game developers have little incentive to actually have monthly updates introducing content. There is more incentive to create gimmicks for people to spend their money on. Their games have no long term potential.
Enjoy the short term potential. Problem solved.
Pay for a sub from companies more interested in their game having a world with rules ungoverned by reminders of incremental payments. Problem solved.
My solution let me play more games, enjoy more variety of gaming experience, and not to mention, cheaper.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
The thing is, I don't care what it costs if it's a truly great game. There just aren't any truly great games and the communities in every single game suck, therefore I cannot imagine any game worth paying a sub for, or even worth playing for free. Money isn't the issue, having a fun time is. If I'm not having fun, and I don't in modern MMOs anymore, then I just don't do it at all, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is.
Well, there are plenty of great SP games, or MMOs that are good enough SP games. Forget about community. Strangers are not dependable for fun in a video game. There are plenty of other ways that i enjoy.
I am playing single player games but there aren't enough of them. I used to play MMOs in between good SP games. Today, I just find something else to do.
Really? You must have lots of time on your hands. My problem is that i have more entertainment than i can enjoy in my limited time. There are tons of SP games that i don't have time to finish (Hitman, Borderland 2 ...), and i only have time to finish the real short iOS games (some are much better than AAA games, just because they are different .. like The Room 2).
And there are tons of tv shows i can watch on netflix, and also plenty of novels to read. I will never be able to finish all the entertainment i like, unless i upload my mind to the computer, and become immortal.
Originally posted by shadow9d9 Not free to play game developers have little incentive to actually have monthly updates introducing content. There is more incentive to create gimmicks for people to spend their money on. Their games have no long term potential.
Enjoy the short term potential. Problem solved.
Pay for a sub from companies more interested in their game having a world with rules ungoverned by reminders of incremental payments. Problem solved.
My solution let me play more games, enjoy more variety of gaming experience, and not to mention, cheaper.
We are looking for different things then. For an MMO, I want a game with legs and a future. I don't want cheap, mindless entertainment for a week or two. $15 a month for me is beyond ridiculously cheap for me. Additionally, I have about 50 indie/"AAA" games to play if I wanted quality and cheap. Between Humble Bundles and its spinoffs, gog/steam sales, I can play single player games for years.
You want quantity for free and I want quality and to pay for it. Hell, I'd easily pay $40 for a quality MMO at this point(or more). The problem is that all we are getting is regurgitated 1 month of levelling in a confined, instanced world, with 5 dungeons to repeat over and over games.. or what I call a WOW clone.
I am playing single player games but there aren't enough of them. I used to play MMOs in between good SP games. Today, I just find something else to do.
Really? You must have lots of time on your hands. My problem is that i have more entertainment than i can enjoy in my limited time. There are tons of SP games that i don't have time to finish (Hitman, Borderland 2 ...), and i only have time to finish the real short iOS games (some are much better than AAA games, just because they are different .. like The Room 2).
And there are tons of tv shows i can watch on netflix, and also plenty of novels to read. I will never be able to finish all the entertainment i like, unless i upload my mind to the computer, and become immortal.
I suspect we're looking for different kinds of games, the good ones that I like don't come out that often and I can often blow through the ones that I do like in a couple of days, a week at the outside and I almost never never re-play a game. It's done, it gets deleted, put away and if I ever do reload it, it might be in 4-5 years if I'm bored. I beat Hitman and Borderlands 2, someone just suggested I play the 2013 remake of Shadow Warrior so that's what I'm going to do. My video game interests run very narrow and there just aren't enough games out there to consume
Of course, TV-wise, I watch far too much. At the moment, I'm watching (and reviewing) 12-14 hours a week of new programming. It's not that I have a lot of time on my hands, it's that I'm very efficient and get things done quickly and then have to find something to fill my time.
Originally posted by shadow9d9 Not free to play game developers have little incentive to actually have monthly updates introducing content. There is more incentive to create gimmicks for people to spend their money on. Their games have no long term potential.
Enjoy the short term potential. Problem solved.
Pay for a sub from companies more interested in their game having a world with rules ungoverned by reminders of incremental payments. Problem solved.
My solution let me play more games, enjoy more variety of gaming experience, and not to mention, cheaper.
We are looking for different things then. For an MMO, I want a game with legs and a future. I don't want cheap, mindless entertainment for a week or two. $15 a month for me is beyond ridiculously cheap for me. Additionally, I have about 50 indie/"AAA" games to play if I wanted quality and cheap. Between Humble Bundles and its spinoffs, gog/steam sales, I can play single player games for years.
You want quantity for free and I want quality and to pay for it. Hell, I'd easily pay $40 for a quality MMO at this point(or more). The problem is that all we are getting is regurgitated 1 month of levelling in a confined, instanced world, with 5 dungeons to repeat over and over games.. or what I call a WOW clone.
You are confused that "mindless" always go together with "a week or two". Dishonored, or Deus Ex are deep good games, but they don't last years.
And no, i don't want a MMO that takes years. I don't have that much time for a single game.
Actually you can get quality for free too ... for example, planetside is a pretty good world pvp game. In fact, there is no other like it .. .so it is quality of its own, and of course, free.
I suspect we're looking for different kinds of games, the good ones that I like don't come out that often and I can often blow through the ones that I do like in a couple of days, a week at the outside and I almost never never re-play a game. It's done, it gets deleted, put away and if I ever do reload it, it might be in 4-5 years if I'm bored. I beat Hitman and Borderlands 2, someone just suggested I play the 2013 remake of Shadow Warrior so that's what I'm going to do. My video game interests run very narrow and there just aren't enough games out there to consume
Actually i miss Shadow Warrior .. so i probably will play that too. I am only in the middle of Hitman.
Now, i wonder .. you must have lots of free time. Do you do anything else? I can hardly find enough time to finish video games. That is also why i prefer short and high quality games. The only game i have for more than a month recently is D3 .. just because the combat is so good.
I have yet to play a F2P game where I'm happy with the game itself. I know that developers must make money, but when playing F2P games I'm always disappointed when I can see the line I have to cross to continue playing. This isn't a new thing for me though. I remember getting shareware games out of disks and cd-roms, and then later off of the internet and being disappointed at seeing the line I'd have to cross to go from the shareware version to the pay version of a game.
This might stem from getting magazines and if I was willing to type in all the text, and then debug the code where I typed things in wrong or where the program itself was wrong I could play games for free waaaaay back in the day. Technically it wasn't free because I bought the magazine, but it felt free.
So I voted "sub", but what I'd really want is a game that I want to pay for.
The Oatmeal sums it up much better than I can. I have no issues spending a few to several hundred dollars on a PC, up to $60 for a game that I might not even finish, but ask me to spend $5 in a cash shop or $15 a month and I'm all suspicious and angry.
ever since they started this disaster of F2P with stores and all that craziness, I just wish everything would come back in the early 2000. 1 sub, 1 price, no gimmick, bing bang boom.
Originally posted by Gunthor ever since they started this disaster of F2P with stores and all that craziness, I just wish everything would come back in the early 2000. 1 sub, 1 price, no gimmick, bing bang boom.
You won't get your wish and I am eternally grateful that you won't. Sub fees are the biggest scam in the gaming business. I'm all for buy to play games like GW2 but a sub fee pretty much means I won't play a game unless it is the absolute best on the market or they actually have employees creating dynamic content all the time or something along that line. Giving them $15 a month just to play the game I already paid for and will pay for again come expansions and that costs very little to maintain is the biggest scam any company gets away with.
No vote from me. Whatever the game has to offer is what I'm paying for.
If it's subscription it shouldn't be the typical $14.99 a month if it has just released either. All developers should note that they released their game and content is way below other titles that have been out for years. Start out at $6.99 and work your way up when you get to established releases. For F2P I don't care as long as no one can buy a way to kill me in PvP, PvE only games I don't really care if they want to spend their money to support the game. The best model is like that of GW2 and even TSW, buy it and just play.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I vote Free MMO. Imagine if the oxygen is not free, you gonna die in this world. I purchase some stash, or fashion to support the company look like in real world. I want the mmo that is open to everyone whether you are poor or rich.
All of the very best and most successful MMOs have in FACT been sub based games. For whatever reason, good or bad, sub fees seem to be a requirement to making those AAA long lasting MMOs that most of us desire. That does not mean that every MMO that uses sub fees is good, far from it, but not a single F2P game has ever been a serious contender, aside from GW2s initial hype launch before it collapsed once people played the trash heap.
Of course people would rather things be free rather then having to pay for them. That is human nature, and that is almost everyone. The unthinking people will take that and click "free", while people able to analayze what it means, understand that sub fees means that developers make a good amount of money and can maintain and produce quality content for us. Good for them, good for us. F2P is a cancer on the MMO genre, but a lot of unthinking people do not realize that.
All of the very best and most successful MMOs have in FACT been sub based games. For whatever reason, good or bad, sub fees seem to be a requirement to making those AAA long lasting MMOs that most of us desire. That does not mean that every MMO that uses sub fees is good, far from it, but not a single F2P game has ever been a serious contender, aside from GW2s initial hype launch before it collapsed once people played the trash heap.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it "collapsed". There are still thousands of people who are playing it every day. Also what are the successful MMOs that you are referring to in your first sentence. All of them that I know of other than WoW and Eve have gone F2P, and of those they are still "successful", just under a different payment model.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
But let's face it, there is no free lunch, someone has to pay for the game, I prefer it the cost to be shared more or less equally amongst the player base and not heavily skewed towards whales vs non-payers.
I completely agree with this.
The issue I see with f2p games or games that rely upon cash shops to make up their money, is that not only can they not rely upon a reasonably steady income but they constantly have to come up with new ways to entice players to pay.
My opinion is that if you are spending time playing it then it's worth your money.
We don't work for free and we expect a decent paycheck from a (hopefully)financially stable company. I don't see why developers should expect less.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I suspect we're looking for different kinds of games, the good ones that I like don't come out that often and I can often blow through the ones that I do like in a couple of days, a week at the outside and I almost never never re-play a game. It's done, it gets deleted, put away and if I ever do reload it, it might be in 4-5 years if I'm bored. I beat Hitman and Borderlands 2, someone just suggested I play the 2013 remake of Shadow Warrior so that's what I'm going to do. My video game interests run very narrow and there just aren't enough games out there to consume
Actually i miss Shadow Warrior .. so i probably will play that too. I am only in the middle of Hitman.
Now, i wonder .. you must have lots of free time. Do you do anything else? I can hardly find enough time to finish video games. That is also why i prefer short and high quality games. The only game i have for more than a month recently is D3 .. just because the combat is so good.
I honestly have very little free time, but I'm not into games like D3 at all. Like I said, different tastes.
Comments
I prefer f2p or b2p with no sub.
If it's f2p I don't care what's in the cash shop as long as if they've allowed ppl to buy endgame gear I can still get similar quality gear if I put in the time.
If it's b2p cosmetic items/boosts only. U can throw ur gambling boxes and keys in there too, idc cuz I'm not likely to try to buy a bunch of boxes and keys since I'm not a big gambler.
I like sub games better, keeps the bot's/gold farmers to a minimum. It also keeps the rift raft out of the game as well. Also on average has an older client base due to needing a credit card.
Enjoy the short term potential. Problem solved.
I agree with you as long as the monetization model does not start to interfere with my enjoyment of the game. I have played way to many F2P games where you hit a pay wall while playing that I personally find a big turn off. You either have to change your play style to something less enjoyable to grind though the wall or pull out your pocket book to pay though it. I don't have a problem paying though it except that every time I have it's just to find there is another and another pay wall stacked right behind them. At what point does it end? At least with a sub or at least with how a sub should work you know going into it how much that is going to be.
I am playing single player games but there aren't enough of them. I used to play MMOs in between good SP games. Today, I just find something else to do.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
My solution let me play more games, enjoy more variety of gaming experience, and not to mention, cheaper.
Really? You must have lots of time on your hands. My problem is that i have more entertainment than i can enjoy in my limited time. There are tons of SP games that i don't have time to finish (Hitman, Borderland 2 ...), and i only have time to finish the real short iOS games (some are much better than AAA games, just because they are different .. like The Room 2).
And there are tons of tv shows i can watch on netflix, and also plenty of novels to read. I will never be able to finish all the entertainment i like, unless i upload my mind to the computer, and become immortal.
We are looking for different things then. For an MMO, I want a game with legs and a future. I don't want cheap, mindless entertainment for a week or two. $15 a month for me is beyond ridiculously cheap for me. Additionally, I have about 50 indie/"AAA" games to play if I wanted quality and cheap. Between Humble Bundles and its spinoffs, gog/steam sales, I can play single player games for years.
You want quantity for free and I want quality and to pay for it. Hell, I'd easily pay $40 for a quality MMO at this point(or more). The problem is that all we are getting is regurgitated 1 month of levelling in a confined, instanced world, with 5 dungeons to repeat over and over games.. or what I call a WOW clone.
I suspect we're looking for different kinds of games, the good ones that I like don't come out that often and I can often blow through the ones that I do like in a couple of days, a week at the outside and I almost never never re-play a game. It's done, it gets deleted, put away and if I ever do reload it, it might be in 4-5 years if I'm bored. I beat Hitman and Borderlands 2, someone just suggested I play the 2013 remake of Shadow Warrior so that's what I'm going to do. My video game interests run very narrow and there just aren't enough games out there to consume
Of course, TV-wise, I watch far too much. At the moment, I'm watching (and reviewing) 12-14 hours a week of new programming. It's not that I have a lot of time on my hands, it's that I'm very efficient and get things done quickly and then have to find something to fill my time.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
You are confused that "mindless" always go together with "a week or two". Dishonored, or Deus Ex are deep good games, but they don't last years.
And no, i don't want a MMO that takes years. I don't have that much time for a single game.
Actually you can get quality for free too ... for example, planetside is a pretty good world pvp game. In fact, there is no other like it .. .so it is quality of its own, and of course, free.
Actually i miss Shadow Warrior .. so i probably will play that too. I am only in the middle of Hitman.
Now, i wonder .. you must have lots of free time. Do you do anything else? I can hardly find enough time to finish video games. That is also why i prefer short and high quality games. The only game i have for more than a month recently is D3 .. just because the combat is so good.
I have yet to play a F2P game where I'm happy with the game itself. I know that developers must make money, but when playing F2P games I'm always disappointed when I can see the line I have to cross to continue playing. This isn't a new thing for me though. I remember getting shareware games out of disks and cd-roms, and then later off of the internet and being disappointed at seeing the line I'd have to cross to go from the shareware version to the pay version of a game.
This might stem from getting magazines and if I was willing to type in all the text, and then debug the code where I typed things in wrong or where the program itself was wrong I could play games for free waaaaay back in the day. Technically it wasn't free because I bought the magazine, but it felt free.
So I voted "sub", but what I'd really want is a game that I want to pay for.
The Oatmeal sums it up much better than I can. I have no issues spending a few to several hundred dollars on a PC, up to $60 for a game that I might not even finish, but ask me to spend $5 in a cash shop or $15 a month and I'm all suspicious and angry.
The Oatmeal - This is how I feel about buying apps
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You won't get your wish and I am eternally grateful that you won't. Sub fees are the biggest scam in the gaming business. I'm all for buy to play games like GW2 but a sub fee pretty much means I won't play a game unless it is the absolute best on the market or they actually have employees creating dynamic content all the time or something along that line. Giving them $15 a month just to play the game I already paid for and will pay for again come expansions and that costs very little to maintain is the biggest scam any company gets away with.
No vote from me. Whatever the game has to offer is what I'm paying for.
If it's subscription it shouldn't be the typical $14.99 a month if it has just released either. All developers should note that they released their game and content is way below other titles that have been out for years. Start out at $6.99 and work your way up when you get to established releases. For F2P I don't care as long as no one can buy a way to kill me in PvP, PvE only games I don't really care if they want to spend their money to support the game. The best model is like that of GW2 and even TSW, buy it and just play.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
All of the very best and most successful MMOs have in FACT been sub based games. For whatever reason, good or bad, sub fees seem to be a requirement to making those AAA long lasting MMOs that most of us desire. That does not mean that every MMO that uses sub fees is good, far from it, but not a single F2P game has ever been a serious contender, aside from GW2s initial hype launch before it collapsed once people played the trash heap.
Of course people would rather things be free rather then having to pay for them. That is human nature, and that is almost everyone. The unthinking people will take that and click "free", while people able to analayze what it means, understand that sub fees means that developers make a good amount of money and can maintain and produce quality content for us. Good for them, good for us. F2P is a cancer on the MMO genre, but a lot of unthinking people do not realize that.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it "collapsed". There are still thousands of people who are playing it every day. Also what are the successful MMOs that you are referring to in your first sentence. All of them that I know of other than WoW and Eve have gone F2P, and of those they are still "successful", just under a different payment model.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I completely agree with this.
The issue I see with f2p games or games that rely upon cash shops to make up their money, is that not only can they not rely upon a reasonably steady income but they constantly have to come up with new ways to entice players to pay.
My opinion is that if you are spending time playing it then it's worth your money.
We don't work for free and we expect a decent paycheck from a (hopefully)financially stable company. I don't see why developers should expect less.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I honestly have very little free time, but I'm not into games like D3 at all. Like I said, different tastes.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None