I accept Star Citizen as my MMORPG. I like having the community (not some large game publisher) behind someone (with one hell of a creative team) with a vision and the balls to create something fresh and exciting. Not conforming and riding on coattails but making their own way. That my friend is what I will accept. Cheers.
MMORPGs do not exist anymore. Those players desiring to be entertained by them are out of luck. So... we are to just "accept it" and be happy? Get real.
Yes. Go read a book, watch a movie, play a SP game. There are plenty of other entertainment options.
And if you don't like any of them .. well tough ... the market is not obliged to make you happy.
LOL, well they are if they expect to earn any of my money. I have it to spend, but no one seems to know how to create a title that will encourage me and others to do so. Their loss really, not mine.
Well, obviously you don't spend enough money for them to notice. It is common knowledge that many MMOs are chasing whales. Since they are not catering for you, apparently you are not one of them.
Again, it is a free market. No one is obliged to make you happy. They can cater to whatever audience (like me!) they want to.
As far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
You are missing the obvious point that the market is not obliged to want *your* business. In fact, if they are not catering to you, they probably have bigger fish to fry ... like whales.
There are plenty of business out there aside from yours. Do you really need me to correctly explain it?
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs do not exist anymore. Those players desiring to be entertained by them are out of luck. So... we are to just "accept it" and be happy? Get real.
Yes. Go read a book, watch a movie, play a SP game. There are plenty of other entertainment options.
And if you don't like any of them .. well tough ... the market is not obliged to make you happy.
/sarcasm on NO WAY! You mean there are other forms of entertainment out there? I never would have thought it! I thought all I had was pining for "the good old days." /sarcasm off
As far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.
This is something I've alluded to a number of times on these forums. We as a collective community need to deal with each game on an individual basis (stop with the constant comparisons), and judge each game on its own merits. I feel the community far too often is so busy comparing one game to another that it forgets what the point of each game is, entertainment.
Far too often games are completely pre-judged based upon limited information, and additionally based upon past experiences which may or may not be relevant to the conversation.
Additionally, the community overall doesn't have a clue what it wants. How many times do we see games crapped on because it's a "WoW clone", but then when someone tries something different the same community complains that the game isn't enough like WoW (not direct wording, but complaints of lack of wow type raiding, or no quest hubs, etc).
It's a wonder we even have games made anymore. With how bipolar the community seems, it's nearly impossible to tell what the hell kind of a game to make.
Far too many of us are waiting on the "perfect game" or are trying to obtain the same feeling you got from your first mmo (chasing the dragon basically), and neither are going to happen...ever.
Very well said.
I really have to agree.
I think there are multiple threads for this same/similar topic. I hope that some of the gaming companies/developers out there read some of this.
Originally posted by Kaneth This is something I've alluded to a number of times on these forums. We as a collective community need to deal with each game on an individual basis (stop with the constant comparisons), and judge each game on its own merits. I feel the community far too often is so busy comparing one game to another that it forgets what the point of each game is, entertainment.Far too often games are completely pre-judged based upon limited information, and additionally based upon past experiences which may or may not be relevant to the conversation.Additionally, the community overall doesn't have a clue what it wants. How many times do we see games crapped on because it's a "WoW clone", but then when someone tries something different the same community complains that the game isn't enough like WoW (not direct wording, but complaints of lack of wow type raiding, or no quest hubs, etc).It's a wonder we even have games made anymore. With how bipolar the community seems, it's nearly impossible to tell what the hell kind of a game to make.Far too many of us are waiting on the "perfect game" or are trying to obtain the same feeling you got from your first mmo (chasing the dragon basically), and neither are going to happen...ever.
Very well said.
I really have to agree.
I think there are multiple threads for this same/similar topic. I hope that some of the gaming companies/developers out there read some of this.
Again, well said.
People are quick to assign labels (like wow-clone) because they share many core features that were popularized by wow. Quest hubs, gear grinds, scripted content, etc. These things basically dictate how you play the game. If you don't like one, you're less likely to enjoy a similar one. I don't understand the problem with picking up on what makes a game tick and calling it what it is.
And the bit about the community being bipolar is... weird. You guys realize that the community is made up of multiple people, right? Those people are going to have differing opinions. All the more reason to stop trying to make games targeted at everybody.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..
You are the perfect MMO consumer that everyone at EA loves. Thanks to you upper management can jump from vacation home to vacation home.
I'm gonna charge you $15 a month to take a dump on your lawn and wrap it with a bowtie you should be grateful it's not a bigger dump or higher priced.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..
You are the perfect MMO consumer that everyone at EA loves. Thanks to you upper management can jump from vacation home to vacation home.
I'm gonna charge you $15 a month to take a dump on your lawn and wrap it with a bowtie you should be grateful it's not a bigger dump or higher priced.
Or do it free to play and charge him for cleanup. But he doesn't have to pay anything if he doesn't want to. Because it's FREEEE.
This is something I've alluded to a number of times on these forums. We as a collective community need to deal with each game on an individual basis (stop with the constant comparisons), and judge each game on its own merits. I feel the community far too often is so busy comparing one game to another that it forgets what the point of each game is, entertainment.
Far too often games are completely pre-judged based upon limited information, and additionally based upon past experiences which may or may not be relevant to the conversation.
Additionally, the community overall doesn't have a clue what it wants. How many times do we see games crapped on because it's a "WoW clone", but then when someone tries something different the same community complains that the game isn't enough like WoW (not direct wording, but complaints of lack of wow type raiding, or no quest hubs, etc).
It's a wonder we even have games made anymore. With how bipolar the community seems, it's nearly impossible to tell what the hell kind of a game to make.
Far too many of us are waiting on the "perfect game" or are trying to obtain the same feeling you got from your first mmo (chasing the dragon basically), and neither are going to happen...ever.
Very well said.
I really have to agree.
I think there are multiple threads for this same/similar topic. I hope that some of the gaming companies/developers out there read some of this.
Again, well said.
People are quick to assign labels (like wow-clone) because they share many core features that were popularized by wow. Quest hubs, gear grinds, scripted content, etc. These things basically dictate how you play the game. If you don't like one, you're less likely to enjoy a similar one. I don't understand the problem with picking up on what makes a game tick and calling it what it is.
And the bit about the community being bipolar is... weird. You guys realize that the community is made up of multiple people, right? Those people are going to have differing opinions. All the more reason to stop trying to make games targeted at everybody.
Yes, WoW may have popularized quite a bit of the features, but some people find 1-2 common traits in a game and are quick to say 'omg, WoW-clone'. Also, many people actually 'hate' WoW now and by placing that 'WoW-clone' label on a game, that portion of the community will avoid the game like the plague.
Nothing wrong with viewing people in an aggregate form. It's actually normal, tbh. Large companies do this all of the time as well. The 'player base', subscribership, community, etc.,...
What's bipolar? When our the majority seems to beg for one type of game, then flames it when it finally releases... that's a pretty good example of what the poster was trying to drive home, there.
I don't think anyone makes a product hoping that the fewest possible players will actually like it. They want players... lots of them. Why? Because games need a 'community' to live. I know, I know... some people will point out that 'hey, we loved game XXX and there were only 10 people on, but we were tight-knit and it was amazing'.
Yes... I want an amazing gameplay experience. But if there's nobody else online to enjoy it with me... did it really happen?
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..
this is why we are getting so many underdeveloped, limited, unpolished, boring, and generic mmorpgs for a while now... because we are accepting them for what they are and blindly supporting them with our wallets telling the company they did an amazing job.... when they clearly did not.
Then don't play them. If enough people refuse to play them, they'll go out of business and be replaced by a different kind of games. The problem is, there are too many MMO players who can't imagine not playing MMOs and therefore they keep giving money to games they don't like and then whine about it. Whining doesn't matter. Vote with your wallet. If there are no MMOs out there that you like, don't play any MMOs at all. Continue to do so until someone puts one out that you like.
Do you decide the standard for quality for everyone? Because there are a lot of people that do not think that WoW has been ruined.
Perhaps you should just accept WoW for what it is and accept that there are a lot of people that accept WoW for what it is and like it.
I don't play it, but subs have gone down about 50% in the last few years, so someone isn't thrilled with the change I would guess.
Yes and WOW has been out a decade and still owns the market. Probably has more subs than every other game combined. It literally owns the MMO world and has for a decade. Subs will continue to go down because its so old, no other game will ever touch it in the amount of people that played it and loved it. And for what its worth, i have never ever even made it to level cap in WOW so i am not a fan boy at all. But games being good or bad are 100% subjective and the MMO community speaks by how many people play a game. And more people like WOW than any other game in the history of MMOs even in its current state.
Originally posted by rojo6934 Originally posted by Lord.Bachus As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..
this is why we are getting so many underdeveloped, limited, unpolished, boring, and generic mmorpgs for a while now... because we are accepting them for what they are and blindly supporting them with our wallets telling the company they did an amazing job.... when they clearly did not.
Then don't play them. If enough people refuse to play them, they'll go out of business and be replaced by a different kind of games. The problem is, there are too many MMO players who can't imagine not playing MMOs and therefore they keep giving money to games they don't like and then whine about it. Whining doesn't matter. Vote with your wallet. If there are no MMOs out there that you like, don't play any MMOs at all. Continue to do so until someone puts one out that you like.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for people.
Actually I am a member of this camp. I haven't spent any money on games at all since 2012, which is a far cry from the days when I readily spent over a grand or more. Got about 9 or 10 friends who as near I can tell aren't spending anything either, all just hanging out on the freeshard just waiting for something new and worthwhile to play.
We might try ESO due to its DAOC tie in, but if not we'll likely pass until CU comes along.
We are all more than willing and able to spend money on our hobby, just doesn't seem to be enough of us to draw much interest.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Do you decide the standard for quality for everyone? Because there are a lot of people that do not think that WoW has been ruined.
Perhaps you should just accept WoW for what it is and accept that there are a lot of people that accept WoW for what it is and like it.
I don't play it, but subs have gone down about 50% in the last few years, so someone isn't thrilled with the change I would guess.
Yes and WOW has been out a decade and still owns the market. Probably has more subs than every other game combined. It literally owns the MMO world and has for a decade. Subs will continue to go down because its so old, no other game will ever touch it in the amount of people that played it and loved it. And for what its worth, i have never ever even made it to level cap in WOW so i am not a fan boy at all. But games being good or bad are 100% subjective and the MMO community speaks by how many people play a game. And more people like WOW than any other game in the history of MMOs even in its current state.
Subs are so outdated, WoW has no where near the people playing it as the mmo LoL, maybe you haven't heard of it. LoL has like 10x the people playing it, and probably more currently playing it, than WoW has ever had.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs do not exist anymore. Those players desiring to be entertained by them are out of luck. So... we are to just "accept it" and be happy? Get real.
Yes. Go read a book, watch a movie, play a SP game. There are plenty of other entertainment options.
And if you don't like any of them .. well tough ... the market is not obliged to make you happy.
/sarcasm on NO WAY! You mean there are other forms of entertainment out there? I never would have thought it! I thought all I had was pining for "the good old days." /sarcasm off
As far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.
I don't think any math needs to be done.
I don't think it has, indie devs among others are trying to make some niche games to make that money.
They haven't put together a lot of success stories, but a decent amount are still trying.
The only problem with subs is that every game since WoW hasn't been good enough to deserve a sub. Make a good game and people will pay whatever for it. The problem? Since WoW there hasn't been a comparable MMO, GW2 being the closest but it's mostly a single player game tbh.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus As long as people dont learn to accept an MMO for what it is....but keep dreaming of what it could have been .... they will never be hapy with any MMO ever again..
nope not true, you have to keep wanting what you want and voice it until they make it. I would understand if you just want a already finished product to be something its not but thats not what I am saying.
It's reasonable to say you don't care for a game because its design isn't something you like. It is unreasonable to think that your opinion is right and the majority opinion by default; therefore, demand from the developer to change said game to conform to your viewpoint. Such mentality is immature and exposes bred entitlement with the lack of ability to self-soothe due to disappointment. Coping skills are defunct in large swaths of individuals today and gaming tends to attract many of these miscreants. This genre in particular.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs do not exist anymore. Those players desiring to be entertained by them are out of luck. So... we are to just "accept it" and be happy? Get real.
Yes. Go read a book, watch a movie, play a SP game. There are plenty of other entertainment options.And if you don't like any of them .. well tough ... the market is not obliged to make you happy.
/sarcasm on NO WAY! You mean there are other forms of entertainment out there? I never would have thought it! I thought all I had was pining for "the good old days." /sarcasm offAs far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.I don't think any math needs to be done.
I do not dispute that. The games are making mega-millions. They are marketing to enough of the "right people" (whales), for sure.
But the comment that the market does not have to make me happy, is utter BS. If they want my money (all measly $60 or whatever), I had best be happy with their products.
Now, granted, *I* am not the player MMOs are currently courting. narriusseldon (and his no paying policy) is the playerbase they desire. I am just saying that my money will be spent again once this market DOES make me happy and not before.
The frustrating part is that my show of no confidence by not playing/paying is equal to nariusseldon's decision to play and not pay. His playing for free carries the same weight as my NOT playing or paying to show my disdain.
Only thing I have left to show my displeasure is "crying on message boards" as my wallet vote means nothing anymore.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AlBQuirky MMORPGs do not exist anymore. Those players desiring to be entertained by them are out of luck. So... we are to just "accept it" and be happy? Get real.
Yes. Go read a book, watch a movie, play a SP game. There are plenty of other entertainment options.
And if you don't like any of them .. well tough ... the market is not obliged to make you happy.
/sarcasm on NO WAY! You mean there are other forms of entertainment out there? I never would have thought it! I thought all I had was pining for "the good old days." /sarcasm off
As far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.
I don't think any math needs to be done.
I do not dispute that. The games are making mega-millions. They are marketing to enough of the "right people" (whales), for sure.
But the comment that the market does not have to make me happy, is utter BS. If they want my money (all measly $60 or whatever), I had best be happy with their products.
Now, granted, *I* am not the player MMOs are currently courting. narriusseldon (and his no paying policy) is the playerbase they desire. I am just saying that my money will be spent again once this market DOES make me happy and not before.
The frustrating part is that my show of no confidence by not playing/paying is equal to nariusseldon's decision to play and not pay. His playing for free carries the same weight as my NOT playing or paying to show my disdain.
Only thing I have left to show my displeasure is "crying on message boards" as my wallet vote means nothing anymore.
Nobody makes you happy. You are in control of your own emotions. Games are there to challenge and entertain you. They're not an antidepressant. If you are generally an unhappy person before you try a game, you will undoubtedly look for faults with it and those faults will likely be more of an issue to you.
Originally posted by jdnyc Nobody makes you happy. You are in control of your own emotions. Games are there to challenge and entertain you. They're not an antidepressant. If you are generally an unhappy person before you try a game, you will undoubtedly look for faults with it and those faults will likely be more of an issue to you.
geeze... You really want to go there?
Games do not "make me happy." They certainly have the option to be fun and enjoyable entertainment. I can certainly "be happy" while playing a video game. I can also be upset playing a video game.
The difference would be better said, "enjoyable." Happy now? Or are you certain that I am just a miserable wretch with no happiness in my life, looking to video games to "make me happy?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
In every case you mentioned you have every right to complain, or act. Not that much of what you said has any relation to accepting games for what they are. However like most you're missing the point. There's a difference between accepting something for what it is and accepting crap.There's a difference between pointing out an issue with a game you'd like to see fixed,and constantly comparing it to something it was never meant to be. It's the latter we see the most of. It's the latter that is essentially irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Look at FireFall, 90% of the players have left. Most if not all of them complained about the direction the game started to take. Same with Chronicles of Spellborn, and the first Iteration of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Most everyone dislikes SWToR, and many people were got up with NeverWinter with the bots and exploiters/hackers that destroyed it in the beginning. No sir, I am pretty sure I am dead on with my rant/soapbox. Just because you want to be a mindless sheeple doesn't mean we all have to follow suit like lemmings. Games that don't listen to the vocal majority of players end up failing or closing their doors and falling into obscurity. But please prove me wrong. Please!
It's not that you're wrong, it's that you're missing the point the OP is making. At least my interpretation of it. On top of that what does anything I said have to do with being a sheep? I made no implication that you must accept and play games you don't like, nor did the OP. Accepting a design means accepting what comes with that design, both the good and the bad. This is something anyone must do to enjoy anything. As nothing is perfect and an orange isn't an apple.
If I want to enjoy a decent sandbox, there are things I might not like that I have to accept that come along with it.Getting hung up on those things I don't like is counter productive to enjoying the things I do like. IF those things get in the way of my enjoyment I'm playing the wrong game. Obviously the focus of the game detracts from the aspects I like in games.
This shouldn't be that hard of a concept to grasp.
Plus 1!!!
That is all.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
As far as that last line goes, if the market, ANY market wants my business, they better well make me happy. Anything less is stupidity in a can. Do you differ in practice here that you felt the need to wrongly point it out, or I felt the need to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.
I don't think any math needs to be done.
I do not dispute that. The games are making mega-millions. They are marketing to enough of the "right people" (whales), for sure.
But the comment that the market does not have to make me happy, is utter BS. If they want my money (all measly $60 or whatever), I had best be happy with their products.
Now, granted, *I* am not the player MMOs are currently courting. narriusseldon (and his no paying policy) is the playerbase they desire. I am just saying that my money will be spent again once this market DOES make me happy and not before.
The frustrating part is that my show of no confidence by not playing/paying is equal to nariusseldon's decision to play and not pay. His playing for free carries the same weight as my NOT playing or paying to show my disdain.
Only thing I have left to show my displeasure is "crying on message boards" as my wallet vote means nothing anymore.
No you're not pay/playing counts for even less than his style. He at least is represented in games and for all they know may one day spend money on something. They just haven't found the right things yet. That 48 million mmo players is who developers really target, not the 6.9 billion who don't.
By not playing at all you go back into the 99% of people who don't play mmos. Wow got it's 12 million subs, one sub at a time. Even if you found some indi game that is trying to do what you're looking for, you'd be showing your support for what you want and contributing towards it becoming profitable enough to attract bigger developers. It's much harder to try and change things when you're the minority. When you really want a major development studio to make a game you want to play the little guys game doesn't seem so appealing.
The not playing anything vote really isn't a vote at all.
Comments
Well, obviously you don't spend enough money for them to notice. It is common knowledge that many MMOs are chasing whales. Since they are not catering for you, apparently you are not one of them.
Again, it is a free market. No one is obliged to make you happy. They can cater to whatever audience (like me!) they want to.
You are missing the obvious point that the market is not obliged to want *your* business. In fact, if they are not catering to you, they probably have bigger fish to fry ... like whales.
There are plenty of business out there aside from yours. Do you really need me to correctly explain it?
Hasn't the market already showed that it doesn't care if it makes YOU happy ? The mmos you liked had maybe a million people total playing ? Last time I saw a number there was 48 million people playing these crappy mmos you wont pay for.
I don't think any math needs to be done.
Very well said.
I really have to agree.
I think there are multiple threads for this same/similar topic. I hope that some of the gaming companies/developers out there read some of this.
Again, well said.
Very well said.
I really have to agree.
I think there are multiple threads for this same/similar topic. I hope that some of the gaming companies/developers out there read some of this.
Again, well said.
People are quick to assign labels (like wow-clone) because they share many core features that were popularized by wow. Quest hubs, gear grinds, scripted content, etc. These things basically dictate how you play the game. If you don't like one, you're less likely to enjoy a similar one. I don't understand the problem with picking up on what makes a game tick and calling it what it is.And the bit about the community being bipolar is... weird. You guys realize that the community is made up of multiple people, right? Those people are going to have differing opinions. All the more reason to stop trying to make games targeted at everybody.
You are the perfect MMO consumer that everyone at EA loves. Thanks to you upper management can jump from vacation home to vacation home.
I'm gonna charge you $15 a month to take a dump on your lawn and wrap it with a bowtie you should be grateful it's not a bigger dump or higher priced.
Or do it free to play and charge him for cleanup. But he doesn't have to pay anything if he doesn't want to. Because it's FREEEE.
Once upon a time....
Yes, WoW may have popularized quite a bit of the features, but some people find 1-2 common traits in a game and are quick to say 'omg, WoW-clone'. Also, many people actually 'hate' WoW now and by placing that 'WoW-clone' label on a game, that portion of the community will avoid the game like the plague.
Nothing wrong with viewing people in an aggregate form. It's actually normal, tbh. Large companies do this all of the time as well. The 'player base', subscribership, community, etc.,...
What's bipolar? When our the majority seems to beg for one type of game, then flames it when it finally releases... that's a pretty good example of what the poster was trying to drive home, there.
I don't think anyone makes a product hoping that the fewest possible players will actually like it. They want players... lots of them. Why? Because games need a 'community' to live. I know, I know... some people will point out that 'hey, we loved game XXX and there were only 10 people on, but we were tight-knit and it was amazing'.
Yes... I want an amazing gameplay experience. But if there's nobody else online to enjoy it with me... did it really happen?
Twelve pages of responses from a platitude in less than a paragraph.
Maybe my expectations for these boards are too high and I'm depriving myself of happiness here
Then don't play them. If enough people refuse to play them, they'll go out of business and be replaced by a different kind of games. The problem is, there are too many MMO players who can't imagine not playing MMOs and therefore they keep giving money to games they don't like and then whine about it. Whining doesn't matter. Vote with your wallet. If there are no MMOs out there that you like, don't play any MMOs at all. Continue to do so until someone puts one out that you like.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for people.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Yes and WOW has been out a decade and still owns the market. Probably has more subs than every other game combined. It literally owns the MMO world and has for a decade. Subs will continue to go down because its so old, no other game will ever touch it in the amount of people that played it and loved it. And for what its worth, i have never ever even made it to level cap in WOW so i am not a fan boy at all. But games being good or bad are 100% subjective and the MMO community speaks by how many people play a game. And more people like WOW than any other game in the history of MMOs even in its current state.
this is why we are getting so many underdeveloped, limited, unpolished, boring, and generic mmorpgs for a while now... because we are accepting them for what they are and blindly supporting them with our wallets telling the company they did an amazing job.... when they clearly did not.
Then don't play them. If enough people refuse to play them, they'll go out of business and be replaced by a different kind of games. The problem is, there are too many MMO players who can't imagine not playing MMOs and therefore they keep giving money to games they don't like and then whine about it. Whining doesn't matter. Vote with your wallet. If there are no MMOs out there that you like, don't play any MMOs at all. Continue to do so until someone puts one out that you like.
I'm not sure why this is so hard for people.
Actually I am a member of this camp. I haven't spent any money on games at all since 2012, which is a far cry from the days when I readily spent over a grand or more. Got about 9 or 10 friends who as near I can tell aren't spending anything either, all just hanging out on the freeshard just waiting for something new and worthwhile to play.We might try ESO due to its DAOC tie in, but if not we'll likely pass until CU comes along.
We are all more than willing and able to spend money on our hobby, just doesn't seem to be enough of us to draw much interest.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Subs are so outdated, WoW has no where near the people playing it as the mmo LoL, maybe you haven't heard of it. LoL has like 10x the people playing it, and probably more currently playing it, than WoW has ever had.
I don't believe LoL is a mmo, but hey, accept it.
I don't think it has, indie devs among others are trying to make some niche games to make that money.
They haven't put together a lot of success stories, but a decent amount are still trying.
nope not true, you have to keep wanting what you want and voice it until they make it. I would understand if you just want a already finished product to be something its not but thats not what I am saying.
But the comment that the market does not have to make me happy, is utter BS. If they want my money (all measly $60 or whatever), I had best be happy with their products.
Now, granted, *I* am not the player MMOs are currently courting. narriusseldon (and his no paying policy) is the playerbase they desire. I am just saying that my money will be spent again once this market DOES make me happy and not before.
The frustrating part is that my show of no confidence by not playing/paying is equal to nariusseldon's decision to play and not pay. His playing for free carries the same weight as my NOT playing or paying to show my disdain.
Only thing I have left to show my displeasure is "crying on message boards" as my wallet vote means nothing anymore.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Nobody makes you happy. You are in control of your own emotions. Games are there to challenge and entertain you. They're not an antidepressant. If you are generally an unhappy person before you try a game, you will undoubtedly look for faults with it and those faults will likely be more of an issue to you.
Games do not "make me happy." They certainly have the option to be fun and enjoyable entertainment. I can certainly "be happy" while playing a video game. I can also be upset playing a video game.
The difference would be better said, "enjoyable." Happy now? Or are you certain that I am just a miserable wretch with no happiness in my life, looking to video games to "make me happy?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Plus 1!!!
That is all.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
No you're not pay/playing counts for even less than his style. He at least is represented in games and for all they know may one day spend money on something. They just haven't found the right things yet. That 48 million mmo players is who developers really target, not the 6.9 billion who don't.
By not playing at all you go back into the 99% of people who don't play mmos. Wow got it's 12 million subs, one sub at a time. Even if you found some indi game that is trying to do what you're looking for, you'd be showing your support for what you want and contributing towards it becoming profitable enough to attract bigger developers. It's much harder to try and change things when you're the minority. When you really want a major development studio to make a game you want to play the little guys game doesn't seem so appealing.
The not playing anything vote really isn't a vote at all.