First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You do know that many people have played ESO without actually being in the beta?
This too XD .. didn't want to mention it though. Though I am pretty sure they where shut down recently.
I was actually talking about gaming conventions but yeah i do know what you are talking about.
I try not to post on the mmorpg.com forums, but I had to step in here.
I see a lot of people with opinions that this game is not an ES game, that it resembles nothing of an ES game, that if you take away the names of towns, and some lore...its your standard 'themepark' ish game. What are you talking about?
The combat is so similar it could simply be a copy and paste of any ES game, take skyrim/oblivion for example. The combat is so different than any other modern day MMO. It is hardly anything like your WoW combat, your Tera combat, neverwinter combat, GW2 combat...its completely unique. It is definately, definately ES combat. You just have an action skill bar now...
Nope it's not completely unique, if anything Dark Falls combat has TES written all over it.
The graphics are definately ES graphics...gorgeous graphics. Over-realistic.
The lore is the lore, 'nuff said. ES lore and story.
So without the NDA being lifted, we have no idea what the rest of the game holds. We have no idea what a dungeon really looks like, other than the quakecon dungeon (which was unimpressive to me, btw). We have no idea what crafting looks like. The PvP cinematics are nothing more than marketing, and we have no idea what that format looks like. We have no idea what PVE end game looks like.
So all we have to go on are graphics, lore, and combat. What is not Elder Scrolls about this game?
I personally have high doubts about the game for other reasons. Not being Elder Scrolls is definately not it. If anything, this game will fail as an MMO because it is too much like an ES game. I look at this game as Skyrim in an MMO space. Thats it. And I don't think Skyrim would have worked as an MMO.
But this definately has the look and feel of ES.
As for the game, you know you are in a TES game but remember this isn't a single player TES game it's an mmo. The graphics are okay the UI is as close to Skyrim you can get. The combat is slow, the animation pretty poor as well, in fact the animations are some of the worst i've seen in any mmo.
I'm not going to break the NDA but imo the game needs the IP because if it was a mmo without the TES ip it would be another average mmo.
It will sell huge numbers because the player base will be mostly made up of console players and first time mmo players imo, they can't lose. I'll play the game because of my love for TES but make no mistake the game is more of the same with a few twist when it comes to mmo's.
Like the game or not ZeniMax are in a win win situation.
I think the graphics are as good or better than anything on the market. Currently, IMO Neverwinter/Tera/GW2 have some of the better graphics and I think TESO is on par or better.
The UI is as close to skyrim, yep.
Combat is slow, but it has been slow, clunky and wierd in any ES game. Its sort of the trademark. Ive never been a fan of the combat. I play the games for the exploration and because I can just get completely lost in the world. Im hoping for the same, because you are correct..combat looks like any other ES game and thats not saying a lot.
Animations..same thing. Look just mediocre if not worse than any other mmo.
I don't think the graphics are the best currently, they are no where near ArcheAge or even Age Of Wushu(debatable/) imo. Yes slow combat in TES games is a trademark but this is not a single player TES game, it's an mmo with slow dull combat. Personally i think it will be one of the major issues to seasoned mmo players especially where RvR is concerned.
I completely agree about the combat...which is why I say this will fail as an MMO. If people go into TESO expecting the traditional MMO experience of WoW or GW2 or something where you have a nice third person view, smooth combat, reactive combat, etc...they will be disappointed. Which is why I am adopting the attitude of "Its ES, which isn't known for its fantastic combat. I'll take it for what it is".
Originally posted by Tatercake the world was beautiful and had depth but i ran into invisible walls telling me i was not high lv to enter i was hugely let down
This will shock a lot of people who though the game was open world and you could go where you want. Even within each faction area their are natural barriers blocking your way.
If this was shown via the developers or something, please elaborate. I am one of those players that thought/think the game is open and persistant, to an extent. Aside from dungeons/mini dungeons, buildings and structures.
Originally posted by Tatercake i have played the game and i was very dissipointed in this game the combat system was the same as gwars 2 i see the pvp becoming zerg fests and boring who has the biggest zerg wins the world was beautiful and had depth but i ran into invisible walls telling me i was not high lv to enter i was hugely let down after loving all of the es games and felt little of es in the world tey tell us they could not do this or that i do not baleve it they could do it but they chose to follow and not be inavators that they have been they chose the easy rode to do what has been done not to do what has not been done so i shall pass and when this game becomes free to play i might log on now and then to venture threw the world but not intell then
combat like gw2? This tells me you haven't played either.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom. You keep spouting on about the NDA but you don't have to be in beta to have played the game.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
This is more then a simple book cover. I have played it, I have seen others play it, and I have played other similar games. It's like a person reading you the first couple of chapters in a book, you reading a large summary of the book, and having a list of similar books.
The statement "don't judge a book by it's cover" hardly applies in this situation. But go on ... entertain me more. I like correcting you over and over again.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
I understand about playing the game and deciding for yourself, it's a fare comment. Anyway i've put my feeling across about the game, not long to go before everyone else can see for themselves.
Most who have issues have played the game but the over hyper's don't want to read anything negative about the game.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
No one is saying this though. I only pointed out some issues the game is likely to face. I only mention it will not feel exactly like Elder Scrolls.
What seems to be the problem about that? To me .. it sounds like you want to argue for no reason. I am not saying the game is bad or anything. not even remotely close. I am not trying to change others opinions about the game either.
I think the issue is you are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Which is why i said I agree with you, besides that part where it "feels" like an ES game. I gave a couple of examples of why I felt that way, and those examples are well founded.
No AH is very strange indeed, i love playing the AH in mmo's. This game seems to be going backwards a touch, when mmo's of this generation should be leaps and bounds ahead
I'll try the free month with the game. and see how i get on from there:)
I will be playing ESO and am bringing over my guild to this game, and I hope to make it my home for a decade. Why?
For MMO players like us who like the Elder Scrolls world but prefer to have it in a social environment, this is the game. The graphics are the best I've ever seen in an MMO, it should have a robust crafting system, and between the AVA war, dungeons and adventure zones for up to 24 man parties, the ability to solo when needed, the exploration, 50+ and 50++ PVE content and no limit on alts yet I see a lot of content for a lot of different playstyles.
To address the game being different from Skyrim, let's go back to the beginning of The Elder Scrolls and see what changed between games. Daggerfall and Arena were on a different scale in terms of square miles of landmass from the newer games. Daggerfall had phobias, in Morrowind you could create a Fly spell, in Oblivion you had a persuasion mini-game. I'm sure there were folks somewhere saying they won't play Skyrim because it's smaller than it was in Arena, didn't have phobias or fly spells, or a persuasion mini-game. Despite these and many, many other changes between each chapter of TES, the games have grown more successful over the years, not less, and I certainly had a great time in Skyrim even though I began playing Arena around 1994.
ESO is more of an MMO set in the ES universe. They are trying to make it as much like a single player TES game as they can while still being a functional MMO, but again, it still has to work as an MMO. People look for social interaction in MMO's, that is the primary reason to play an MMO over a single-player game. So seeing other players in the world is one of the objectives of an MMO and thus unavoidable. I find a TES MMO more appealing than a 4 man coop Skyrim would be. In am MMO you have a much larger audience to play with, can make new friends etc.
ESO will not be for every single TES fan, just like Skyrim was not for every MMO fan. However, I have faith in the excellent dev house who appears to be very responsive to their gamer client base and that they will make informed decisions and have for us an entertaining game by April, and will keep updating it with the features we ask for over the coming years. The dev house (ZOS) is like the foundation of a house, and we have a great team here in my opinion. Better than most MMO's have.
In my opinion, everyone should try the open beta for at least a week when it opens up, and then you can make a determination if you like it or not at that point when all of the systems are actually present and functional.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
This is more then a simple book cover. I have played it, I have seen others play it, and I have played other similar games. It's like a person reading you the first couple of chapters in a book, you reading a large summary of the book, and having a list of similar books.
The statement "don't judge a book by it's cover" hardly applies in this situation. But go on ... entertain me more. I like correcting you over and over again.
Correcting me? How? You are then breaking the NDA by giving us your opinion on how the game plays, since you have just admitted to it. Thanks for proving my point.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
This is more then a simple book cover. I have played it, I have seen others play it, and I have played other similar games. It's like a person reading you the first couple of chapters in a book, you reading a large summary of the book, and having a list of similar books.
The statement "don't judge a book by it's cover" hardly applies in this situation. But go on ... entertain me more. I like correcting you over and over again.
Correcting me? How? You are then breaking the NDA by giving us your opinion on how the game plays, since you have just admitted to it. Thanks for proving my point.
What NDA .. I am not in beta. I could care less what information I give. I am not subject to any NDA. So . .no .. didn't prove your point at all.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
No one is saying this though. I only pointed out some issues the game is likely to face. I only mention it will not feel exactly like Elder Scrolls.
What seems to be the problem about that? To me .. it sounds like you want to argue for no reason. I am not saying the game is bad or anything. not even remotely close. I am not trying to change others opinions about the game either.
I think the issue is you are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Which is why i said I agree with you, besides that part where it "feels" like an ES game. I gave a couple of examples of why I felt that way, and those examples are well founded.
So again .. what the hell is your issue?
Nothing is my "issue. My original post was that from the videos we have seen the game looks and is elder scrolls. You went on to reply to my original post saying "I agree with you, aside from the part that it looks or feels like ES". Well, that was my entire post, my entire point...that the game looks like and "looks like it feels like" elder scrolls.
So I am/was confused..you agree with my post, which was entirely about the look and feel relating to elder scrolls, yet you disagreed with it at the same time.
My original post had no other point than correlating the look and feel of the game to traditional ES games, which you agreed with. And also disagreed with.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
No one is saying this though. I only pointed out some issues the game is likely to face. I only mention it will not feel exactly like Elder Scrolls.
What seems to be the problem about that? To me .. it sounds like you want to argue for no reason. I am not saying the game is bad or anything. not even remotely close. I am not trying to change others opinions about the game either.
I think the issue is you are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Which is why i said I agree with you, besides that part where it "feels" like an ES game. I gave a couple of examples of why I felt that way, and those examples are well founded.
So again .. what the hell is your issue?
Nothing is my "issue. My original post was that from the videos we have seen the game looks and is elder scrolls. You went on to reply to my original post saying "I agree with you, aside from the part that it looks or feels like ES". Well, that was my entire post, my entire point...that the game looks like and "looks like it feels like" elder scrolls.
So I am/was confused..you agree with my post, which was entirely about the look and feel relating to elder scrolls, yet you disagreed with it at the same time.
My original post had no other point than correlating the look and feel of the game to traditional ES games, which you agreed with. And also disagreed with.
There you go again ... putting words in my mouth. I never said it didn't LOOK like ES ... gosh learn to freaking read.
I only mentioned portions of the game that are not likely to feel entirely like elder scrolls. you do know the difference between look and feel. .. yes? I sure do hope so, because you are looking very ignorant at this particular moment in time.
First of all ... I never said it didn't "look" like Elder Scrolls.
I was saying it doesn't play like it. It doesn't feel like it in some cases. Huge difference. You essentially just argued with me over something I wasn't argueing about rofl.
Not arguing and what I was saying is spot on because of NDA...we have no idea what the game plays like without breaking NDA.
Without breaking the NDA how can you tell how the game feels? Without breaking NDA, we can only go off looks. And from the looks of it, it looks like a spitting image of any other elder scrolls game. The looks of the combat, aside from action bars, looks like a spitting image.
You are joking right?
First of all, despite NDA, I have seen plenty of gameplay videos of beta and can clearly see how the game plays. You also can get a very good idea of what issues will take place simply by taking experience from other games.
It's called using your brain.
It's why we have the ability to know if we will like a game or not before we play it, because we compare it to similar games.
I have all the Elder Scrolls games, and based on the series, I mentioned problems the game will likely have unless they work on it.
So YES, i can tell how the game feels as it currently stands. Just like how I can watch a game video on the net, and tell as well. Watch let's play series. Not sure why you seem to think this is particularly hard to do, because it isn't.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
This is more then a simple book cover. I have played it, I have seen others play it, and I have played other similar games. It's like a person reading you the first couple of chapters in a book, you reading a large summary of the book, and having a list of similar books.
The statement "don't judge a book by it's cover" hardly applies in this situation. But go on ... entertain me more. I like correcting you over and over again.
Correcting me? How? You are then breaking the NDA by giving us your opinion on how the game plays, since you have just admitted to it. Thanks for proving my point.
Again you are not getting the point, he could of played the game at a gaming convention that is open to the public like GamesCom.
If you played the game at a convention then you are not in the beta, you can't break an NDA unless you are actually part of the beta program.
Ahhhhh I see this thread is alive and well and has deteriorated into what most of these threads become. Trolls baiting other trolls with semantics and rhetoric.
Then others trying to cite an NDA when it comes to stuff/ as if people who are saying negative things arent the ones who are beholding to the NDA. So they will come and say all the negative things that doesnt break the NDA and then magically have stuff that would break the NDA be rainbows and unicorns? Thats as illogical an argument as you can get, but it is definitely trolling 101.
Besides there are clearly more than enough videos out there for people to look at to form an educated opinion.
I dont think I ever said the game was horrible. I just said it doesnt deliver nearly enough to be deserving of the remarks a lot of people are making about it. If you took the Elder Scrolls name off this game, rolled out what we have seen it would be a joke. People would first compare it to DaoC and then maybe GW2, and probably a third game before they even got to the 'it also looks like Elder Scrolls'. But even that would have to be something they experienced with the keypad controls. I doubt they would jump to that conclusion without that.
But its an MMO or a reasonable facsimile of one, and a very generic one at that. Without the name recognition it would most definitely be released as no less than buy to play and more than likely free to play. (opinion) As far as subscription games being 'better quality'. Maybe but that hanst stopped all but a few of them eventually going free to play and anything that still has a sub is a game released 8 or more years ago. With the exception of FFXIV which almost died but they reinvented and is still new enough not to be forced into going F2P on its second go around
I stated 'facts' in what I wrote. I tried to keep opinion out of it. Other than maybe a comment about how not having something would play out, that has yet to be seen. But anyone with a brain who has seen it knows how it ends.
Now even if they do release the things on the list I mentioned, and other things it also lacks which cant be discussed due to the NDA at a later date, then what/? Did they release a half finished MMO? That will be the majority thought I am sure, while some will spin it as, they saw what the playerbase wanted and adjusted.
There are 3 months to go before release, thats 90 days, that is longer than most people who buy the original copy of this will play it. We will see more and more as these dyas go by, but IMO (opinion) they have an uphill battle in gaining some people back tot he hype side of the game In other words the stuff that keeps getting released is pushing more people away than getting them to jump on the other side of the fence.
Ahhhhh I see this thread is alive and well and has deteriorated into what most of these threads become. Trolls baiting other trolls with semantics and rhetoric.
Then others trying to cite an NDA when it comes to stuff/ as if people who are saying negative things arent the ones who are beholding to the NDA. So they will come and say all the negative things that doesnt break the NDA and then magically have stuff that would break the NDA be rainbows and unicorns? Thats as illogical an argument as you can get, but it is definitely trolling 101.
Besides there are clearly more than enough videos out there for people to look at to form an educated opinion.
I dont think I ever said the game was horrible. I just said it doesnt deliver nearly enough to be deserving of the remarks a lot of people are making about it. If you took the Elder Scrolls name off this game, rolled out what we have seen it would be a joke. People would first compare it to DaoC and then maybe GW2, and probably a third game before they even got to the 'it also looks like Elder Scrolls'. But even that would have to be something they experienced with the keypad controls. I doubt they would jump to that conclusion without that.
But its an MMO or a reasonable facsimile of one, and a very generic one at that. Without the name recognition it would most definitely be released as no less than buy to play and more than likely free to play. (opinion) As far as subscription games being 'better quality'. Maybe but that hanst stopped all but a few of them eventually going free to play and anything that still has a sub is a game released 8 or more years ago. With the exception of FFXIV which almost died but they reinvented and is still new enough not to be forced into going F2P on its second go around
I stated 'facts' in what I wrote. I tried to keep opinion out of it. Other than maybe a comment about how not having something would play out, that has yet to be seen. But anyone with a brain who has seen it knows how it ends.
Now even if they do release the things on the list I mentioned, and other things it also lacks which cant be discussed due to the NDA at a later date, then what/? Did they release a half finished MMO? That will be the majority thought I am sure, while some will spin it as, they saw what the playerbase wanted and adjusted.
There are 3 months to go before release, thats 90 days, that is longer than most people who buy the original copy of this will play it. We will see more and more as these dyas go by, but IMO (opinion) they have an uphill battle in gaining some people back to the hype side of the game. In other words the stuff that keeps getting released is pushing more people away than getting them to jump on the other side of the fence.
So that's your opinion about what people's opinions are? I suppose we can then have opinions about whether your opinion of other people's opinions is a valid opinion or just a self-serving biased guess... and then you can have an opinion about that.
If you have an opinion about the game that's one thing, but what makes you think you know what "people" think about the game... all I hear you describing is your opinion and then trying to make your opinion more credible by trying to tell us that it's not just yours but the generic "people's" ... or just thoose with brains because apparently only the brainless can disagree with your "facts."
So... where are all these people with brains you speak on behalf of? Maybe some comments from them acknowledging you as their spokesman would be useful.
I love the unwitting Irony in your post about semantics and trolls.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So that's your opinion about what people's opinions are? I suppose we can then have opinions about whether your opinion of other people's opinions is a valid opinion or just a self-serving biased guess... and then you can have an opinion about that.
If you have an opinion about the game that's one thing, but what makes you think you know what "people" think about the game... all I hear you describing is your opinion and then trying to make your opinion more credible by trying to tell us that it's not just yours but the generic "people's" ... or just thoose with brains because apparently only the brainless can disagree with your "facts."
So... where are all these people with brains you speak on behalf of? Maybe some comments from them acknowledging you as their spokesman would be useful.
I love the unwitting Irony in your post about semantics and trolls.
My 'opinions' about how this game will progress are based on what other games have had happen to them when they did the same thing.
Subscriptions....name a single AAA game since 2005 that has a subscription now. FFXIV doesnt really count because that is a remake of a failed game and it hasnt been 're-released' long enough to prove if the latest incarnation is any better. Or if after the initial flood of players (all 'new' games have) it will actually hold them. That isnt really opinion that is fact. At least the answer to the original question. If FFXIV is still a full sub game in a year I will recant.
The IP, yeah is is a big one, and yes it is a game based one unlike, Star Wars, Lord of the rings, Marvel Comics etc. But with that also comes higher expectations. BECAUSE it is a game based IP people expect more form it, or should. Now that might be opinion. Not sure. Semantics maybe. But the FACT is you can look at ESO and compare it directly to several games that were made for the IP. So it isnt like you have to compare anything to WOW (or any other MMO)you compare it to its own IP. Now people use the excuse that "ES games are sinlg eplayer" so what, there are plenty of examples of MMOs with similar things the ES franchise has used, yet they themselves the maker of the franchise arent using them in THEIR MMO? Red flag.
No AH, thats a fact. The opinions on how that may or may not play out are so lopsided theyre not worth discussing, no one other than blatant fans of the IP can defend NOT having an AH system in the game at release.
PvP, my thoughts on that were based on what I saw and what I have seen. Sure technically opinion but once again opinion based on facts. So that can be discussed some that cant be.
People can have all the opinions they want. I suspect the vast majority of people with the rosiest of opinions have not played the game enough to see the short comings or are so enamored with seeing these places rendered in 3D they simply do not care. Nothing wrong with those opinions, they just dont translate into a good business model. If people just wanted to 'experience' the IP world Lotro and Star Wars wouldnt have tanked like they did. or in the very least held enough regard to continue to charge a subscription to play them.
Like I said we have 3 months, what happens between now and then and when the NDA is lifted and if they offer an open beta should be major tell tale signs of what side and what 'opinions' to believe.
Nothing wrong with Niche games, Eve and even Fallen Earth have done well with them. But they dint spend anywhere near the money this company has or had anywhere near the hype or expectations this game has. Its one thing for my daughter to sing the National Anthem and get sympathy applause when she doesnt do it 'perfectly' it is another if Beyonce butchers it. There are higher standards obviously.
The basic mistake that you and many others here make is to think that declining player numbers after the first 3 months for an MMO reflects badly on the game.
It's just a fact of life on the MMO business. There are way too many current and new MMOs for players to stick around any of them for very long.
It's the way we are, not the way they are. Those who stick around for a long time are the anomaly.
So... Predicting that the population of any MMO will decrease over time is about as useful as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow.
And pointing out similarities to other MMOs and using that as the basis for your prediction is about as useful as saying that the reason the sun will rise tomorrow is because it's Friday.
FF, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, whatever... will all go through the same player retention drop. Just because that's the way it works these days.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Skyrim is my favorite game...ever. 30 years ago I started dreaming about where computers could take the RPG world and for decades games failed to miss the point. NeverWinter Nights (2002) with its toolset was the first time it felt right. Skyrim however completely nailed it.
EOS however has removed every single aspect of what I liked about Skyrim as well as Morrowind (although I hear they are backpelleding on some items)
What disappointment's me more than the lack of the implementation of various approaches is the lack of vision to see how obvious it is. What makes EOS so bad (from the design specs) is the 'tone' they are taking and the 'tone' they obvious missed hearing from the elder scrolls series.
Oh and this business of 'single player' vs 'multiplayer' is flat out asinine to the level that I nearly think people are simply getting paid to make such views.
About 4 years ago I started dabbling in independent MMOs and I haven't looked back sense, the amount of depth these small teams can do over the huge budgets of someone like Zenimax borders on surreal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Iselin The basic mistake that you and many others here make is to think that declining player numbers after the first 3 months for an MMO reflects badly on the game.
It's just a fact of life on the MMO business. There are way too many current and new MMOs for players to stick around any of them for very long.
It's the way we are, not the way they are. Those who stick around for a long time are the anomaly.
So... Predicting that the population of any MMO will decrease over time is about as useful as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow.
And pointing out similarities to other MMOs and using that as the basis for your prediction is about as useful as saying that the reason the sun will rise tomorrow is because it's Friday.
FF, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, whatever... will all go through the same player retention drop. Just because that's the way it works these days.
Thats where YOURE wrong, EVERYONE is looking for a DESTINATION game. One where they can play and STAY for an extended time. While there are a lot of good and free MMOs out there theyre all lacking if they werent they would be the ga,e most people would be playing. So if a game starts out with a few million people and offers enough of everything to appeal to everyone then what would that do?
Instead this game is pigeon holing itself into something ESO is not know for at all...PvP. Now are they challenging themselves? Did they think they had done all they could with PvE in their stand alone games? Did they just think that MMO equates to PvP? Who knows but I doubt it plays well.
The fact that (end game)PvE is almost an after thought is the most disturbing. Sure its difficult (impossible) to develop enough PvE content to keep up with players but if you put enough choices in and options you can extend it a long way. I mentioned some of the most obvious ones a half dozen times. Most are not in this game at all, the only one that is is crafting and that is still a total unknown 3 months from release. So if crafting sucks youre stuck with a stand alone game you playing with a few people you arent phased away from and a PvP game that youre paying 15 bux a month to play.
Thats what it is boiling down to. IMO thats an extremely risky move. Mostly because PvP hasnt been a major draw for a long time, and the old fossils who remember it in the hay day are going to end up being the most vocal and turn it into the fiasco it always turns into.
This game is literally on a knife edge. It could be another Warhammer. Yeah i know the IP is too strong, not when there is nothing in the game that resembles the IP or is focused on. No AH, No housing, no exploration, no 'randomness', and thats just what can be talked about. All we know for sure is that it is PvP focused. Are they really expecting the guys who grew up playing these games to switch from total PvE to total PvP? And expect them to keep this game profitable?
All the 'cool' things like character progression and skills dont mean jack shit if you dont like what you end up having to do with them, which right now is 99% PvP.
For an IP like this and a game with as much hype and 'romance' surrounding it as this one has had what we know is a complete joke.
This really should have been developed as an RPG first and an MMO second. But from what I have seen and read and learned I really dont know how it was developed or what they were smoking when they were developing it.
We have 3 months, I expect a new wave of Beta invites next weekend, if not then who knows what is going on. But they have a couple major areas to test, Crafting, which was totally revamped, and PvP the main focus of the game which has never been adequately tested. Along with the siege details and keep aspects, not to mention getting enough people in there to actually have it close to what can be expected after release. Thats completely forgetting the other 'broken' stuff from past betas that cant be discussed, but just the most obvious ones.
If I get in and it blows me away I might become more optimistic. If I get in and am still underwhelmed that will only be worse. If I dont get in then I wont know.
Originally posted by Iselin The basic mistake that you and many others here make is to think that declining player numbers after the first 3 months for an MMO reflects badly on the game.
It's just a fact of life on the MMO business. There are way too many current and new MMOs for players to stick around any of them for very long.
It's the way we are, not the way they are. Those who stick around for a long time are the anomaly.
So... Predicting that the population of any MMO will decrease over time is about as useful as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow.
And pointing out similarities to other MMOs and using that as the basis for your prediction is about as useful as saying that the reason the sun will rise tomorrow is because it's Friday.
FF, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, whatever... will all go through the same player retention drop. Just because that's the way it works these days.
Thats where YOURE wrong, EVERYONE is looking for a DESTINATION game. One where they can play and STAY for an extended time. While there are a lot of good and free MMOs out there theyre all lacking if they werent they would be the ga,e most people would be playing. So if a game starts out with a few million people and offers enough of everything to appeal to everyone then what would that do?
Player retention statistics for any game in the last 10 years not named WOW would beg to differ. It just does not happen any more AND the reason it doesn't happen is because there are so many choices and a constant stream of new ones with interesting twists on some core MMO aspect.
It's a fantasy to think it will happen again and it's madness to think that you know the magic formula that will prevent people from wanting to check out new and different things.
Even WOW itself has very few constant 10-year vets. People leave it for other things and come back all the time. Blizzard just happened to have cashed in by being the easiest, most popular MMO to pick-up and play at the time when MMOs hit the mainstream. Even today, go up to anyone who doesn't play MMOs and tell them that you do... 99% of them will say "What, like WOW?"
Even if the majority of MMO players are saying that they're looking for a destination game (and even that is not the case) what they actually do with their gaming time and money shows clearly that this isn't so.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
I was actually talking about gaming conventions but yeah i do know what you are talking about.
I completely agree about the combat...which is why I say this will fail as an MMO. If people go into TESO expecting the traditional MMO experience of WoW or GW2 or something where you have a nice third person view, smooth combat, reactive combat, etc...they will be disappointed. Which is why I am adopting the attitude of "Its ES, which isn't known for its fantastic combat. I'll take it for what it is".
If this was shown via the developers or something, please elaborate. I am one of those players that thought/think the game is open and persistant, to an extent. Aside from dungeons/mini dungeons, buildings and structures.
combat like gw2? This tells me you haven't played either.
Ever hear of "dont judge a book by its cover"? You are in a book store, see a lame looking book cover and discard it, but it could actually be decent. Gotta try it to know that though.
You are free to form an opinion on what you think the game plays like, but thats where it ends. Opinion. You can speculate all you want but you still have no idea how it plays.
I do though and many others, i'm in beta but i also played the game at GamesCom. You keep spouting on about the NDA but you don't have to be in beta to have played the game.
As do I. I watch vids and formulate an opinion. And I definately have opinions about TESO which would suade me not to play the game. But I know that it is an ES title, and like most major titles I should give it a try if I am slightly interested. Very rarely will I just completely disregard a game based on some videos and some forum poster opinions. Letting other people make up your mind for you without even trying it out is quite naive (speaking generally).
This is more then a simple book cover. I have played it, I have seen others play it, and I have played other similar games. It's like a person reading you the first couple of chapters in a book, you reading a large summary of the book, and having a list of similar books.
The statement "don't judge a book by it's cover" hardly applies in this situation. But go on ... entertain me more. I like correcting you over and over again.
I understand about playing the game and deciding for yourself, it's a fare comment. Anyway i've put my feeling across about the game, not long to go before everyone else can see for themselves.
Most who have issues have played the game but the over hyper's don't want to read anything negative about the game.
No one is saying this though. I only pointed out some issues the game is likely to face. I only mention it will not feel exactly like Elder Scrolls.
What seems to be the problem about that? To me .. it sounds like you want to argue for no reason. I am not saying the game is bad or anything. not even remotely close. I am not trying to change others opinions about the game either.
I think the issue is you are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Which is why i said I agree with you, besides that part where it "feels" like an ES game. I gave a couple of examples of why I felt that way, and those examples are well founded.
So again .. what the hell is your issue?
No AH is very strange indeed, i love playing the AH in mmo's. This game seems to be going backwards a touch, when mmo's of this generation should be leaps and bounds ahead
I'll try the free month with the game. and see how i get on from there:)
I will be playing ESO and am bringing over my guild to this game, and I hope to make it my home for a decade. Why?
For MMO players like us who like the Elder Scrolls world but prefer to have it in a social environment, this is the game. The graphics are the best I've ever seen in an MMO, it should have a robust crafting system, and between the AVA war, dungeons and adventure zones for up to 24 man parties, the ability to solo when needed, the exploration, 50+ and 50++ PVE content and no limit on alts yet I see a lot of content for a lot of different playstyles.
To address the game being different from Skyrim, let's go back to the beginning of The Elder Scrolls and see what changed between games. Daggerfall and Arena were on a different scale in terms of square miles of landmass from the newer games. Daggerfall had phobias, in Morrowind you could create a Fly spell, in Oblivion you had a persuasion mini-game. I'm sure there were folks somewhere saying they won't play Skyrim because it's smaller than it was in Arena, didn't have phobias or fly spells, or a persuasion mini-game. Despite these and many, many other changes between each chapter of TES, the games have grown more successful over the years, not less, and I certainly had a great time in Skyrim even though I began playing Arena around 1994.
ESO is more of an MMO set in the ES universe. They are trying to make it as much like a single player TES game as they can while still being a functional MMO, but again, it still has to work as an MMO. People look for social interaction in MMO's, that is the primary reason to play an MMO over a single-player game. So seeing other players in the world is one of the objectives of an MMO and thus unavoidable. I find a TES MMO more appealing than a 4 man coop Skyrim would be. In am MMO you have a much larger audience to play with, can make new friends etc.
ESO will not be for every single TES fan, just like Skyrim was not for every MMO fan. However, I have faith in the excellent dev house who appears to be very responsive to their gamer client base and that they will make informed decisions and have for us an entertaining game by April, and will keep updating it with the features we ask for over the coming years. The dev house (ZOS) is like the foundation of a house, and we have a great team here in my opinion. Better than most MMO's have.
In my opinion, everyone should try the open beta for at least a week when it opens up, and then you can make a determination if you like it or not at that point when all of the systems are actually present and functional.
Guildmaster, Brotherhood of Redemption
http://www.borguild.com/
Correcting me? How? You are then breaking the NDA by giving us your opinion on how the game plays, since you have just admitted to it. Thanks for proving my point.
What NDA .. I am not in beta. I could care less what information I give. I am not subject to any NDA. So . .no .. didn't prove your point at all.
Nothing is my "issue. My original post was that from the videos we have seen the game looks and is elder scrolls. You went on to reply to my original post saying "I agree with you, aside from the part that it looks or feels like ES". Well, that was my entire post, my entire point...that the game looks like and "looks like it feels like" elder scrolls.
So I am/was confused..you agree with my post, which was entirely about the look and feel relating to elder scrolls, yet you disagreed with it at the same time.
My original post had no other point than correlating the look and feel of the game to traditional ES games, which you agreed with. And also disagreed with.
There you go again ... putting words in my mouth. I never said it didn't LOOK like ES ... gosh learn to freaking read.
I only mentioned portions of the game that are not likely to feel entirely like elder scrolls. you do know the difference between look and feel. .. yes? I sure do hope so, because you are looking very ignorant at this particular moment in time.
Again you are not getting the point, he could of played the game at a gaming convention that is open to the public like GamesCom.
If you played the game at a convention then you are not in the beta, you can't break an NDA unless you are actually part of the beta program.
Ahhhhh I see this thread is alive and well and has deteriorated into what most of these threads become. Trolls baiting other trolls with semantics and rhetoric.
Then others trying to cite an NDA when it comes to stuff/ as if people who are saying negative things arent the ones who are beholding to the NDA. So they will come and say all the negative things that doesnt break the NDA and then magically have stuff that would break the NDA be rainbows and unicorns? Thats as illogical an argument as you can get, but it is definitely trolling 101.
Besides there are clearly more than enough videos out there for people to look at to form an educated opinion.
I dont think I ever said the game was horrible. I just said it doesnt deliver nearly enough to be deserving of the remarks a lot of people are making about it. If you took the Elder Scrolls name off this game, rolled out what we have seen it would be a joke. People would first compare it to DaoC and then maybe GW2, and probably a third game before they even got to the 'it also looks like Elder Scrolls'. But even that would have to be something they experienced with the keypad controls. I doubt they would jump to that conclusion without that.
But its an MMO or a reasonable facsimile of one, and a very generic one at that. Without the name recognition it would most definitely be released as no less than buy to play and more than likely free to play. (opinion) As far as subscription games being 'better quality'. Maybe but that hanst stopped all but a few of them eventually going free to play and anything that still has a sub is a game released 8 or more years ago. With the exception of FFXIV which almost died but they reinvented and is still new enough not to be forced into going F2P on its second go around
I stated 'facts' in what I wrote. I tried to keep opinion out of it. Other than maybe a comment about how not having something would play out, that has yet to be seen. But anyone with a brain who has seen it knows how it ends.
Now even if they do release the things on the list I mentioned, and other things it also lacks which cant be discussed due to the NDA at a later date, then what/? Did they release a half finished MMO? That will be the majority thought I am sure, while some will spin it as, they saw what the playerbase wanted and adjusted.
There are 3 months to go before release, thats 90 days, that is longer than most people who buy the original copy of this will play it. We will see more and more as these dyas go by, but IMO (opinion) they have an uphill battle in gaining some people back tot he hype side of the game In other words the stuff that keeps getting released is pushing more people away than getting them to jump on the other side of the fence.
So that's your opinion about what people's opinions are? I suppose we can then have opinions about whether your opinion of other people's opinions is a valid opinion or just a self-serving biased guess... and then you can have an opinion about that.
If you have an opinion about the game that's one thing, but what makes you think you know what "people" think about the game... all I hear you describing is your opinion and then trying to make your opinion more credible by trying to tell us that it's not just yours but the generic "people's" ... or just thoose with brains because apparently only the brainless can disagree with your "facts."
So... where are all these people with brains you speak on behalf of? Maybe some comments from them acknowledging you as their spokesman would be useful.
I love the unwitting Irony in your post about semantics and trolls.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My 'opinions' about how this game will progress are based on what other games have had happen to them when they did the same thing.
Subscriptions....name a single AAA game since 2005 that has a subscription now. FFXIV doesnt really count because that is a remake of a failed game and it hasnt been 're-released' long enough to prove if the latest incarnation is any better. Or if after the initial flood of players (all 'new' games have) it will actually hold them. That isnt really opinion that is fact. At least the answer to the original question. If FFXIV is still a full sub game in a year I will recant.
The IP, yeah is is a big one, and yes it is a game based one unlike, Star Wars, Lord of the rings, Marvel Comics etc. But with that also comes higher expectations. BECAUSE it is a game based IP people expect more form it, or should. Now that might be opinion. Not sure. Semantics maybe. But the FACT is you can look at ESO and compare it directly to several games that were made for the IP. So it isnt like you have to compare anything to WOW (or any other MMO)you compare it to its own IP. Now people use the excuse that "ES games are sinlg eplayer" so what, there are plenty of examples of MMOs with similar things the ES franchise has used, yet they themselves the maker of the franchise arent using them in THEIR MMO? Red flag.
No AH, thats a fact. The opinions on how that may or may not play out are so lopsided theyre not worth discussing, no one other than blatant fans of the IP can defend NOT having an AH system in the game at release.
PvP, my thoughts on that were based on what I saw and what I have seen. Sure technically opinion but once again opinion based on facts. So that can be discussed some that cant be.
People can have all the opinions they want. I suspect the vast majority of people with the rosiest of opinions have not played the game enough to see the short comings or are so enamored with seeing these places rendered in 3D they simply do not care. Nothing wrong with those opinions, they just dont translate into a good business model. If people just wanted to 'experience' the IP world Lotro and Star Wars wouldnt have tanked like they did. or in the very least held enough regard to continue to charge a subscription to play them.
Like I said we have 3 months, what happens between now and then and when the NDA is lifted and if they offer an open beta should be major tell tale signs of what side and what 'opinions' to believe.
Nothing wrong with Niche games, Eve and even Fallen Earth have done well with them. But they dint spend anywhere near the money this company has or had anywhere near the hype or expectations this game has. Its one thing for my daughter to sing the National Anthem and get sympathy applause when she doesnt do it 'perfectly' it is another if Beyonce butchers it. There are higher standards obviously.
It's just a fact of life on the MMO business. There are way too many current and new MMOs for players to stick around any of them for very long.
It's the way we are, not the way they are. Those who stick around for a long time are the anomaly.
So... Predicting that the population of any MMO will decrease over time is about as useful as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow.
And pointing out similarities to other MMOs and using that as the basis for your prediction is about as useful as saying that the reason the sun will rise tomorrow is because it's Friday.
FF, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, whatever... will all go through the same player retention drop. Just because that's the way it works these days.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I will try to make this short.
Skyrim is my favorite game...ever. 30 years ago I started dreaming about where computers could take the RPG world and for decades games failed to miss the point. NeverWinter Nights (2002) with its toolset was the first time it felt right. Skyrim however completely nailed it.
EOS however has removed every single aspect of what I liked about Skyrim as well as Morrowind (although I hear they are backpelleding on some items)
What disappointment's me more than the lack of the implementation of various approaches is the lack of vision to see how obvious it is. What makes EOS so bad (from the design specs) is the 'tone' they are taking and the 'tone' they obvious missed hearing from the elder scrolls series.
Oh and this business of 'single player' vs 'multiplayer' is flat out asinine to the level that I nearly think people are simply getting paid to make such views.
About 4 years ago I started dabbling in independent MMOs and I haven't looked back sense, the amount of depth these small teams can do over the huge budgets of someone like Zenimax borders on surreal.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thats where YOURE wrong, EVERYONE is looking for a DESTINATION game. One where they can play and STAY for an extended time. While there are a lot of good and free MMOs out there theyre all lacking if they werent they would be the ga,e most people would be playing. So if a game starts out with a few million people and offers enough of everything to appeal to everyone then what would that do?
Instead this game is pigeon holing itself into something ESO is not know for at all...PvP. Now are they challenging themselves? Did they think they had done all they could with PvE in their stand alone games? Did they just think that MMO equates to PvP? Who knows but I doubt it plays well.
The fact that (end game)PvE is almost an after thought is the most disturbing. Sure its difficult (impossible) to develop enough PvE content to keep up with players but if you put enough choices in and options you can extend it a long way. I mentioned some of the most obvious ones a half dozen times. Most are not in this game at all, the only one that is is crafting and that is still a total unknown 3 months from release. So if crafting sucks youre stuck with a stand alone game you playing with a few people you arent phased away from and a PvP game that youre paying 15 bux a month to play.
Thats what it is boiling down to. IMO thats an extremely risky move. Mostly because PvP hasnt been a major draw for a long time, and the old fossils who remember it in the hay day are going to end up being the most vocal and turn it into the fiasco it always turns into.
This game is literally on a knife edge. It could be another Warhammer. Yeah i know the IP is too strong, not when there is nothing in the game that resembles the IP or is focused on. No AH, No housing, no exploration, no 'randomness', and thats just what can be talked about. All we know for sure is that it is PvP focused. Are they really expecting the guys who grew up playing these games to switch from total PvE to total PvP? And expect them to keep this game profitable?
All the 'cool' things like character progression and skills dont mean jack shit if you dont like what you end up having to do with them, which right now is 99% PvP.
For an IP like this and a game with as much hype and 'romance' surrounding it as this one has had what we know is a complete joke.
This really should have been developed as an RPG first and an MMO second. But from what I have seen and read and learned I really dont know how it was developed or what they were smoking when they were developing it.
We have 3 months, I expect a new wave of Beta invites next weekend, if not then who knows what is going on. But they have a couple major areas to test, Crafting, which was totally revamped, and PvP the main focus of the game which has never been adequately tested. Along with the siege details and keep aspects, not to mention getting enough people in there to actually have it close to what can be expected after release. Thats completely forgetting the other 'broken' stuff from past betas that cant be discussed, but just the most obvious ones.
If I get in and it blows me away I might become more optimistic. If I get in and am still underwhelmed that will only be worse. If I dont get in then I wont know.
Player retention statistics for any game in the last 10 years not named WOW would beg to differ. It just does not happen any more AND the reason it doesn't happen is because there are so many choices and a constant stream of new ones with interesting twists on some core MMO aspect.
It's a fantasy to think it will happen again and it's madness to think that you know the magic formula that will prevent people from wanting to check out new and different things.
Even WOW itself has very few constant 10-year vets. People leave it for other things and come back all the time. Blizzard just happened to have cashed in by being the easiest, most popular MMO to pick-up and play at the time when MMOs hit the mainstream. Even today, go up to anyone who doesn't play MMOs and tell them that you do... 99% of them will say "What, like WOW?"
Even if the majority of MMO players are saying that they're looking for a destination game (and even that is not the case) what they actually do with their gaming time and money shows clearly that this isn't so.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED