OP's idea could work, but these people couldn't interact with eachother. The way I see it working is not as checkboxes at character creation but instead as variable difficulty servers.
House or teleport beacon? PvP contested zone or PvP instanced battle? Quest or a daily? Read a text box or just join in the fighting?
If you put in both the harder option wont get used. Take the contested PvP zone in SWTOR, they had PvP arenas as well so hardly anyone used the contested zone.
House or teleport beacon? PvP contested zone or PvP instanced battle? Quest or a daily? Read a text box or just join in the fighting?
If you put in both the harder option wont get used. Take the contested PvP zone in SWTOR, they had PvP arenas as well so hardly anyone used the contested zone.
The harder option will get used if the incentives are there to support it. For example, you regularly find miners, blacksmiths and general PvE players on the FFA PVP facet of each UO server (No, I didn't say it was crawling with them, just that you can regularly find some there), which seems odd until you consider some of the incentives:
- double the quantity of crafting resources from nodes and animals
- loot table is 1 tier higher than normal on most mobs
I agree that most would take the easy route, but from what I've seen in UO, AoC and several other MMOs, the harder path seems to get enough traffic to warrant its inclusion.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Talemire I think if someone checked permadeath and died, they would probably regret having checked permadeath lol.
I wish more games copied Path of Exiles approach.
You have a hardcore league for characters that didn't die, and if you die you get moved to Standard league. The best players play HC, those who want a more laid back approach play SC, and everyone is happy.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
I Think your idea is good but sadly I Think It will only work for certain types of games, or if certain criterias are met.
DDO has difficulty checks Before entering a dungeon, but then again you and YOUR party choose this..It works fine here plus I Think the mindset of DDO players are MUCH diffrent then your average MMO player. This is what most DDO players need , a challenge
Age of Conan has a choice to play a zone as a Group only zone , but back when I played that game none would use it , It gave you tougher monsters and It took loonger to complete anything but the same rewards. The zones where empty in this mode.
I tried to play in these zones with my Guild friends, but as they were just solo mobs turned into super mobs and the zone was originally designed for solo, the difficulty in these zones where beyond sanity with all the adds and fast respawn rates. If they had taken their time to design a real Group version of the same zone then this would have been the best idea in later MMO development.
BUt as many has mentioned you cant JUST have a slider in an MMO ..It affects so many things and needs to be balanced . There is alot of work here, ALOT.
PLus...The reason many plays MMO's is to actually play with their friends in an open World where all could see each other, for each of these check boxes you click you would have to have a diffrent instance of the gameworld or else it would create a multtude of other problems.
The harder option will get used if the incentives are there to support it. For example, you regularly find miners, blacksmiths and general PvE players on the FFA PVP facet of each UO server (No, I didn't say it was crawling with them, just that you can regularly find some there), which seems odd until you consider some of the incentives:
- double the quantity of crafting resources from nodes and animals
- loot table is 1 tier higher than normal on most mobs
I agree that most would take the easy route, but from what I've seen in UO, AoC and several other MMOs, the harder path seems to get enough traffic to warrant its inclusion.
I feel the problem with the UO-style Fel/Tram-reward model is that it's actually rewarding playstyle rather than play. Given the low propbability of encountering Pkers away from high-traffic areas, the perception of risk was almost entirely subjective and many non-PvP players wouldn't enjoy playing in Fel no matter how high you cranked the rewards. As a result, I feel the system only constributed to the toxic antagonism between factions of the playerbase.
I Think your idea is good but sadly I Think It will only work for certain types of games, or if certain criterias are met.
DDO has difficulty checks Before entering a dungeon, but then again you and YOUR party choose this..It works fine here plus I Think the mindset of DDO players are MUCH diffrent then your average MMO player. This is what most DDO players need , a challenge
Age of Conan has a choice to play a zone as a Group only zone , but back when I played that game none would use it , It gave you tougher monsters and It took loonger to complete anything but the same rewards. The zones where empty in this mode.
I tried to play in these zones with my Guild friends, but as they were just solo mobs turned into super mobs and the zone was originally designed for solo, the difficulty in these zones where beyond sanity with all the adds and fast respawn rates. If they had taken their time to design a real Group version of the same zone then this would have been the best idea in later MMO development.
BUt as many has mentioned you cant JUST have a slider in an MMO ..It affects so many things and needs to be balanced . There is alot of work here, ALOT.
PLus...The reason many plays MMO's is to actually play with their friends in an open World where all could see each other, for each of these check boxes you click you would have to have a diffrent instance of the gameworld or else it would create a multtude of other problems.
I don't see any incentive to play on harder difficulty if there isn't a better reward. Those who choose to take on a difficult challenge should be rewarded for it. I rarely went into dungeons(unless it was below my level by a lot, raider, or grouped in Everquest, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I knew people were tackling really difficult challenges and were being rewarded for it. They deserved what they got as it wasn't easy to get it. It also gave you something to strive for if you decided you wanted to try.
The harder option will get used if the incentives are there to support it. For example, you regularly find miners, blacksmiths and general PvE players on the FFA PVP facet of each UO server (No, I didn't say it was crawling with them, just that you can regularly find some there), which seems odd until you consider some of the incentives:
- double the quantity of crafting resources from nodes and animals
- loot table is 1 tier higher than normal on most mobs
I agree that most would take the easy route, but from what I've seen in UO, AoC and several other MMOs, the harder path seems to get enough traffic to warrant its inclusion.
I feel the problem with the UO-style Fel/Tram-reward model is that it's actually rewarding playstyle rather than play. Given the low propbability of encountering Pkers away from high-traffic areas, the perception of risk was almost entirely subjective and many non-PvP players wouldn't enjoy playing in Fel no matter how high you cranked the rewards. As a result, I feel the system only constributed to the toxic antagonism between factions of the playerbase.
The goal wasn't to get everyone to play on Fel. The goal was to offer incentives to a certain subset of the players. UO is just one way to do it. EVE's hi/low/null security divisions is another. AoC used zone instances/channels to offer greater rewards for greater challenges. Again, the goal isn't to get everyone there but to have that option for those interested in it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The harder option will get used if the incentives are there to support it. For example, you regularly find miners, blacksmiths and general PvE players on the FFA PVP facet of each UO server (No, I didn't say it was crawling with them, just that you can regularly find some there), which seems odd until you consider some of the incentives:
- double the quantity of crafting resources from nodes and animals
- loot table is 1 tier higher than normal on most mobs
I agree that most would take the easy route, but from what I've seen in UO, AoC and several other MMOs, the harder path seems to get enough traffic to warrant its inclusion.
I feel the problem with the UO-style Fel/Tram-reward model is that it's actually rewarding playstyle rather than play. Given the low propbability of encountering Pkers away from high-traffic areas, the perception of risk was almost entirely subjective and many non-PvP players wouldn't enjoy playing in Fel no matter how high you cranked the rewards. As a result, I feel the system only constributed to the toxic antagonism between factions of the playerbase.
The goal wasn't to get everyone to play on Fel. The goal was to offer incentives to a certain subset of the players. UO is just one way to do it. EVE's hi/low/null security divisions is another. AoC used zone instances/channels to offer greater rewards for greater challenges. Again, the goal isn't to get everyone there but to have that option for those interested in it.
They had a reason to take the harder route so some did. In the SWTOR example I gave the rewards for zoned PvP were the same as the rewards for instanced PvP which gave more frequent rewards. Result, a PvP contested battleground that no one used.
Originally posted by Loktofeit It makes far more sense and requires far less unnecessary work for both the player and the developer for that player to just go play a game they do like instead.
The nerve of some people! Get your logic out of here
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
The downside of OP proposed system is that it fragments the playerbase, not all players are playing the same way, so it makes artificial barriers instead of bridging all players together.
Huge downside imo.
The up side to it though is it would bring like minded people together. People who want a greater challenge in the same areas would be in the same settings. To me that's more important than trying to get everyone in the same clown car
Raiding for example is a place you never want casuals and hardcores together. That's like fire and gas. Having difficulty settings would help split them up while letting them both essentially do the same content.
Originally posted by LittleBoot Because people will take the path of least resistance. If I had to leave a group mid-quest to repair my items due to having 'item decay' switched on I would not be invited back.
And yet in Single player games that have selectable difficulty options most people do not just play the easiest possible way all the time. Maybe they do at the beginning but then most get bored and want to increase the challenge. Wouldn't whole guilds of people form around those who liked the more difficult mechanics and wanted to play that way?
Single player games that have "higher difficulty" do so by increasing/decreasing hit points and decreasing/increasing damage. Long, drawn out fights are not "more difficult." They are just longer.
Have you ever played a single player game that has potions WITHOUT using said potions? The choice is there. How about NOT using the best items in that single player game?
Every MMO ever made has a "self-imposed" harsh death penalty available. When a character dies, you can very easily delete the character and start again. Would you do this? What self-imposed difficulties do you put in place when you play MMOs?
Self-imposed difficulty in games (single or MMO) rarely is effective, or utilized.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
The OP is on to something tho I asked for years ago with WoW, when I got tired of their end game treadmill.. Why not have different TYPES of servers with different levels of dificulty and options.. They already do that with PvP servers.. Why not have a server for example that is considered hardcore, in where the mobs are next to impossible to solo., thus promoting group play and camps.. OR change all dungeons to open land zones where multiple groups can enter at the same time (Boss Mobs would be on random spawn timers like the old days).. This would also give companies like Blizzard an option to expand their base.. I"m wanting to go back to the days of kiting like I did with my EQ druid.. Why not have special SPELLS or SKILLS that can ONLY be taught on those servers such a Druid dotting and rooting? The options would be numerous..
Keep in mind tho, for those thinking of exploiting this server.. Characters would NOT be transfered in or out.. I haven't played WoW since Lich King, and I would come back in a second if they allowed such a variety of servers..
Have you ever played a single player game that has potions WITHOUT using said potions? The choice is there. How about NOT using the best items in that single player game?
Every MMO ever made has a "self-imposed" harsh death penalty available. When a character dies, you can very easily delete the character and start again. Would you do this? What self-imposed difficulties do you put in place when you play MMOs?
Self-imposed difficulty in games (single or MMO) rarely is effective, or utilized.
It is not the same. Plenty of single player games have hardcore mode, as well as at least one online game, Path of Exile. Playing like an idiot deliberately is not the same as the game imposing challenges on you.
I didn't bring up making monsters tougher because obviously that would be impossible to do in an MMO in the non-instanced world without fragmenting the player base a lot. I was hoping if you kept it to just settings that would still allow people to play together and just some people would see quest markers or have their items decay or whatever depending on how they'd set up their character but I really don't know what the technical limitations are.
Although as I said, Path of Exile does it with Perma-Death and Shroud of the Avatar is talking about having a bunch of options like this you can set when you roll up your character so it can't be totally impossible.
It makes for more complex game design when you have multiple players interacting with the environment using differing rule-sets. It's also likely that players will simply choose a game who's core gameplay is designed around the specific difficulty setting and ruleset they are interested in, in preference to a game that tries to morph it's rulesets to accomodate different play styles.
I mean people could already do alot to self-handicap in order make play more difficult within existing MMO's. Mostly we don't because people (in PvE) are playing AGAINST the game and ALSO are competing to some degree against the other players of it...even if we don't really like to admit it. So part of the interest is taking best advantage of the ruleset the game provides to achieve success.
Comments
Players always take the easy route.
House or teleport beacon? PvP contested zone or PvP instanced battle? Quest or a daily? Read a text box or just join in the fighting?
If you put in both the harder option wont get used. Take the contested PvP zone in SWTOR, they had PvP arenas as well so hardly anyone used the contested zone.
The harder option will get used if the incentives are there to support it. For example, you regularly find miners, blacksmiths and general PvE players on the FFA PVP facet of each UO server (No, I didn't say it was crawling with them, just that you can regularly find some there), which seems odd until you consider some of the incentives:
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I wish more games copied Path of Exiles approach.
You have a hardcore league for characters that didn't die, and if you die you get moved to Standard league. The best players play HC, those who want a more laid back approach play SC, and everyone is happy.
I Think your idea is good but sadly I Think It will only work for certain types of games, or if certain criterias are met.
DDO has difficulty checks Before entering a dungeon, but then again you and YOUR party choose this..It works fine here plus I Think the mindset of DDO players are MUCH diffrent then your average MMO player. This is what most DDO players need , a challenge
Age of Conan has a choice to play a zone as a Group only zone , but back when I played that game none would use it , It gave you tougher monsters and It took loonger to complete anything but the same rewards. The zones where empty in this mode.
I tried to play in these zones with my Guild friends, but as they were just solo mobs turned into super mobs and the zone was originally designed for solo, the difficulty in these zones where beyond sanity with all the adds and fast respawn rates. If they had taken their time to design a real Group version of the same zone then this would have been the best idea in later MMO development.
BUt as many has mentioned you cant JUST have a slider in an MMO ..It affects so many things and needs to be balanced . There is alot of work here, ALOT.
PLus...The reason many plays MMO's is to actually play with their friends in an open World where all could see each other, for each of these check boxes you click you would have to have a diffrent instance of the gameworld or else it would create a multtude of other problems.
I feel the problem with the UO-style Fel/Tram-reward model is that it's actually rewarding playstyle rather than play. Given the low propbability of encountering Pkers away from high-traffic areas, the perception of risk was almost entirely subjective and many non-PvP players wouldn't enjoy playing in Fel no matter how high you cranked the rewards. As a result, I feel the system only constributed to the toxic antagonism between factions of the playerbase.
I don't see any incentive to play on harder difficulty if there isn't a better reward. Those who choose to take on a difficult challenge should be rewarded for it. I rarely went into dungeons(unless it was below my level by a lot, raider, or grouped in Everquest, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I knew people were tackling really difficult challenges and were being rewarded for it. They deserved what they got as it wasn't easy to get it. It also gave you something to strive for if you decided you wanted to try.
The goal wasn't to get everyone to play on Fel. The goal was to offer incentives to a certain subset of the players. UO is just one way to do it. EVE's hi/low/null security divisions is another. AoC used zone instances/channels to offer greater rewards for greater challenges. Again, the goal isn't to get everyone there but to have that option for those interested in it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
They had a reason to take the harder route so some did. In the SWTOR example I gave the rewards for zoned PvP were the same as the rewards for instanced PvP which gave more frequent rewards. Result, a PvP contested battleground that no one used.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The up side to it though is it would bring like minded people together. People who want a greater challenge in the same areas would be in the same settings. To me that's more important than trying to get everyone in the same clown car
Raiding for example is a place you never want casuals and hardcores together. That's like fire and gas. Having difficulty settings would help split them up while letting them both essentially do the same content.
Have you ever played a single player game that has potions WITHOUT using said potions? The choice is there. How about NOT using the best items in that single player game?
Every MMO ever made has a "self-imposed" harsh death penalty available. When a character dies, you can very easily delete the character and start again. Would you do this? What self-imposed difficulties do you put in place when you play MMOs?
Self-imposed difficulty in games (single or MMO) rarely is effective, or utilized.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The OP is on to something tho I asked for years ago with WoW, when I got tired of their end game treadmill.. Why not have different TYPES of servers with different levels of dificulty and options.. They already do that with PvP servers.. Why not have a server for example that is considered hardcore, in where the mobs are next to impossible to solo., thus promoting group play and camps.. OR change all dungeons to open land zones where multiple groups can enter at the same time (Boss Mobs would be on random spawn timers like the old days).. This would also give companies like Blizzard an option to expand their base.. I"m wanting to go back to the days of kiting like I did with my EQ druid.. Why not have special SPELLS or SKILLS that can ONLY be taught on those servers such a Druid dotting and rooting? The options would be numerous..
Keep in mind tho, for those thinking of exploiting this server.. Characters would NOT be transfered in or out.. I haven't played WoW since Lich King, and I would come back in a second if they allowed such a variety of servers..
It is not the same. Plenty of single player games have hardcore mode, as well as at least one online game, Path of Exile. Playing like an idiot deliberately is not the same as the game imposing challenges on you.
I didn't bring up making monsters tougher because obviously that would be impossible to do in an MMO in the non-instanced world without fragmenting the player base a lot. I was hoping if you kept it to just settings that would still allow people to play together and just some people would see quest markers or have their items decay or whatever depending on how they'd set up their character but I really don't know what the technical limitations are.
Although as I said, Path of Exile does it with Perma-Death and Shroud of the Avatar is talking about having a bunch of options like this you can set when you roll up your character so it can't be totally impossible.
It makes for more complex game design when you have multiple players interacting with the environment using differing rule-sets. It's also likely that players will simply choose a game who's core gameplay is designed around the specific difficulty setting and ruleset they are interested in, in preference to a game that tries to morph it's rulesets to accomodate different play styles.
I mean people could already do alot to self-handicap in order make play more difficult within existing MMO's. Mostly we don't because people (in PvE) are playing AGAINST the game and ALSO are competing to some degree against the other players of it...even if we don't really like to admit it. So part of the interest is taking best advantage of the ruleset the game provides to achieve success.