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WTF Youtube: Game Reviewers getting screwed

BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

Check out Angry Joes rant on the subject.  He quit his job four years ago trying to do something he loved, and now google is completely destroying his way of making a living.

Does MMORPG have youtube videos up of interviews that have been stopped from monotinization?

I sure hope a competitor emerges out of all of this.

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Comments

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Either it's a major screw-up on behalf of Google / YouTube, or other companies are getting really greedy.

     

    YouTube used to just suck up the intellectual property lawsuits with quiet settlements & blanket protection (from what I read a year or 2 ago).  Their revenue was greater than the losses, then, so it wasn't a big deal.

     

    It's possible that YouTube just got tired of buying rights for every complaint, especially if companies were relying on increasing the scope of complaints to generate more cash for themselves.  Someone is to blame, and it's not entirely YouTube, I'm afraid.

     

    This will be an interesting story to follow though, as more info comes out.

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    The problem is that it is all automated content ID system.  On reddit, Paradox Interactive wrote this:

     

    I manage the youtube page for Paradox Interactive, and we actually had our EUIV Release Trailer flagged as content managed by someone else.

    So we, the content creator and game publisher, had one of our videos monetized by some user for featuring original music from our own game.

    Mind you, on our own Youtube page there are clear instructions that you are free to use our content, monetize videos, and so on, so long as you reference the game.

    The whole thing was solved in about 24 hours, but it was still extremely frustrating and mind-boggling how Youtube could allow someone to claim to own content from an official verified publisher's channel.

     

    Edit:  The onus should be on the person/company submitting the copyright ownership claim.  You know, innocent until proven guilty.  Here it is the opposite.

     

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    lol this is the angriest I've ever seen Joe get.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    lol this is the angriest I've ever seen Joe get.

    Well I would guess so since it completely affects his livelihood.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Yeah, he's honestly mad this time no joke and it's because it's hurting his income and he has some points.

    He's like me everyday thinking about things only I'm ranting at the microwave instead of taping it.

    Tell him to switch to Vimeo, he's right, the content creators can leave when they are suppressed and should. They can find another way to monetize, it doesn't have to be G based.

    I've been trying to delete a youtube account for years but the button is broken. I swear it does nothing. So, I deleted all my content since they won't answer their forums to get the account deleted manually. After a few weeks of trying I just left my email and said, delete my account and gave up. Even if you leave they will still claim you exist as a user lol

    Some woman complained similarly about the comments recently. I intentionally load then reverse sort the comments back to the way they were instead of the way they want to put more server load on them even if I don't want to read the comments. Make sure you at least scroll down to them for every video you watch since they are trying to progressively load and not show comments on videos unless you move down. That's two requests for no reason - high fyyyyve!

    Here's her musical rant -

    Now I wonder if Yogscast is being hit...

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    The way the law is written, there no need for proof that a person has ownership of the rights, when a dmca notice is sent. The companies like google are also on the hook to pay for each notice. Google gets millions of notices, they rarely contest them for it is too expensive for them. They have even had people try to claim google owned material.
    The music industry are some of the worst offenders. Kim Dot Com had a bunch of people write and sing a song for megaupload. The song sucked; however, the music industry was in a fight with megaupload so they sent dmca notices and had the song taken down. Effectivly censoring free speech.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    Actually, I've been doing more digging and found this video that explains clearly how the content id system works at google.

     

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    While I wouldn't say youtube is blameless, this guy brings up some interesting points too. 

    Edit: He explains why he thinks YT new system is actually a reaction to multi channel networks like Machinima, Polaris etc., that didn't stick to the initial deals they agreed upon with YT.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2gswdiH3VE

  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon
    I love how THQ is apparently screwing users from beyond the grave. That's right YouTube, feel free to completely automate the system upon which people's livelihoods may depend.

    Nature without Technology is little more than animals running about.
    Nature without Magic is without wonder or miracle.
    .........
    Magic without Technology is fantasy.
    Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
    .........
    Technology without Nature is application without understanding.
    Technology without Magic is repetitious and uninventive.
  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    Used to, you could buy a game and be considered to own it. The product came complete and fully featured. Somewhere along the road from then until today attempts to monetize every feature have gotten out of hand. The average consumer isn't going to win this either. Day one downloadable content already on disc to complete the game you just bought, making every vehicle inside a purchase it takes months to earn via play, new DRM to prevent used game sales or sharing discs, failing to include retro compatibility with titles for previous OS or consoles even though they could... That list goes on.

     

    So YouTube has caved to publishers and money interests, tired of being sued and harassed. It's no wonder they are a target since a lot of people they want to get at publish under their umbrella and I am not surprised they have caved since they are now a money interest too. What do these individual content creators really matter to a company like YouTube that can become richer by turning into more of an outlet for big money publishers than individuals like Joe? Is it any wonder they look at Joe in the same way government officials look at citizens that do not earn enough money to vote? He is small time.

     

    Joe did mention the right acronyms for people involved in making this happen. EA has employed viral marketers and forum trolls to go after critics for years. Silence the critics and they make more money as no one can forewarn or fore-inform you. Even this site gets silly about maintaining an air of positiveness sometimes to make money and stay out of the targeting reticle and maintain a reputation as a kitten outlet for games. This sort of money making strategy in controlling the voices and keyboards commenting on a product favors big business interest and helps them further by making it harder for indie game publishers who need that word of mouth to get the publicity they need to compete. They can't even post their own original material without fear some one will post claim and lack the resourrces to combat it. I wonder if they really understand who is posting claims on them in an effort to make sure their games get pub and yours doesn't?

     

    If you can't pass the law to protect your interest get in bed with the company letting people do what you don't want... I don't know what will happen with it in the end but it is changing the way I go about business.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    Actually, I've been doing more digging and found this video that explains clearly how the content id system works at google.

     

    Nice video.

     

    The irony of complaining video game companies is that YouTube copyright detection can apparently become acceptable by dropping the framerate or zooming in / distorting the video / sound quality.  That was from the video.

     

    Imagine all the fan videos that make a game look like complete shit just to upload it, in all it's 12 fps low res, zoomed in tunnel vision glory! lol

     

    Well I guess it's poetic justice to the greedy :P

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I would say it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that has no obligation to continue "as is". Sure it's fun, but at any time, for any reason bad or good that platform can get pulled out from under you.

    If Angry Joe disputes the copyright matches against his account, it should fall back to the developers of the games to approve his disputes. This is what many of the developers who own the copyrights on the materials being shown said to do. This make sense because Google shouldn't be the arbiter of whether copyrighted material can get used or not. The burden should fall to the copyright holders. This way movie studios can continue to lose sales because they don't want any video of movies to show up on Youtube, and game developers can drive increased sales by approving these videos.

    There must be a reason for doing this in the first place though. Any revenue not generated for the people posting these videos is revenue that Google isn't getting either, and Google is probably getting more revenue from each individual viewing of a video than the people posting the videos. Something was costing too much, or some future initiative made Content ID a viable choice. Maybe Google just wants other content holders to put more content on Youtube, so they are showing that they can automate the content protection process, and the Let's Play and Game Review videos are caught in the crossfire.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Ahhh Total Biscuit is talking about it too.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JqjDhuPFaQ

    Didn't see anything on yogscast.

  • SephrosSephros Somewhere, CAPosts: 396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I would say it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that has no obligation to continue "as is". Sure it's fun, but at any time, for any reason bad or good that platform can get pulled out from under you.

     

    Based on that observation, no job is safe, because nothing is obligated to continue "as is".  I see no difference between youtubers decisions to make an income based on viewership and other media platforms / performers / actors doing the same thing.

    Error: No Keyboard Detected!
    Press F1 to continue......

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by greenreen

    Ahhh Total Biscuit is talking about it too.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JqjDhuPFaQ

    Didn't see anything on yogscast.

     

    Total Biscuit doesn't know when to shut up sometimes. LMAO. I only say that because he has a thirty minute video on it. He could have got to the point in ten.

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    I'm glad they do this.

    I hope the miriads of selfproclaimed "eVIPs with an attitude and important opinion" trying to make a living of the big names+games disappear. Hopefully the same thing happens on twitch with the streamwhores fishing for donations.

     

    image
  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I'm glad they do this.

    I hope the miriads of selfproclaimed "eVIPs with an attitude and important opinion" trying to make a living of the big names+games disappear. Hopefully the same thing happens on twitch with the streamwhores fishing for donations.

     

    Copyright trolls will go after Twitch ..

     

    I give that site one more year before it gets shut down.

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I'm glad they do this.

    I hope the miriads of selfproclaimed "eVIPs with an attitude and important opinion" trying to make a living of the big names+games disappear. Hopefully the same thing happens on twitch with the streamwhores fishing for donations.

     

    Its the viewer who really loses.  You may not like these type of videos, so you probably don't watch them.  Others do...and they like them.  If the content provider cannot make a living making the videos, then they won't make them and the viewers...well you know, they won't have anything to view.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    Lot's of people talking about this but this is the best DISCUSSION I've seen on it by people in the industry including some mentioned above.

    Be warned though it's almost 90 minutes long.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1ubSVMwaw

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Sephros
    Originally posted by lizardbones I would say it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that has no obligation to continue "as is". Sure it's fun, but at any time, for any reason bad or good that platform can get pulled out from under you.  
    Based on that observation, no job is safe, because nothing is obligated to continue "as is".  I see no difference between youtubers decisions to make an income based on viewership and other media platforms / performers / actors doing the same thing.


    It is certainly true that there is very little obligation for the world to remain "as is". The difference is that the entire platform being used isn't usually controlled by one entity with no recourse if that entity decides to change something. The movie industry, magazine and newspaper industries and the television industry are not controlled by one entity who can arbitrarily decide to change a rule that eliminates the income of every person using those industries. Even Microsoft is limited in what it can do with Windows because of market pressure.

    The people using Youtube to generate income on things like game reviews or playthroughs are entirely beholden to Google. They have no recourse, legal or otherwise if Google decides to change the rules. There is no alternative to Google and Youtube to do this type of thing. Again, it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that you have no control over, which can change at any time.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Sephros

    Originally posted by lizardbones I would say it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that has no obligation to continue "as is". Sure it's fun, but at any time, for any reason bad or good that platform can get pulled out from under you.  
    Based on that observation, no job is safe, because nothing is obligated to continue "as is".  I see no difference between youtubers decisions to make an income based on viewership and other media platforms / performers / actors doing the same thing.

    It is certainly true that there is very little obligation for the world to remain "as is". The difference is that the entire platform being used isn't usually controlled by one entity with no recourse if that entity decides to change something. The movie industry, magazine and newspaper industries and the television industry are not controlled by one entity who can arbitrarily decide to change a rule that eliminates the income of every person using those industries. Even Microsoft is limited in what it can do with Windows because of market pressure.

    The people using Youtube to generate income on things like game reviews or playthroughs are entirely beholden to Google. They have no recourse, legal or otherwise if Google decides to change the rules. There is no alternative to Google and Youtube to do this type of thing. Again, it's a questionable decision to base your life and income on a platform that you have no control over, which can change at any time.

     

     

    True man. Very true. But there are also people out there who for whatever reason had little other recourse in life that YouTube made a part of my life. Guys like Boogie2988 in particular who really would have nothing and likely be dead in a ditch without the tube giving him a valued voice on the net. Even PewDiePie to a degree (I love and hate him. Okay I lean a little toward hate but still.)  Without that outlet to sell their personality and your game ... I look at those guys, even Joe, and think they are about to be rolled over and they do not deserve it for these reasons. Big money killing small business all over again.

     

    But unlike biscuit, I am not sure the industry he is part of is here to stay. Even TWITCH is going to be in trouble. It may be automated but he is yet to get who is filing the claims regardless of ownership.

  • TybostTybost Ill, WIPosts: 419Member Uncommon

    Poor Angryjoe! ;( Good Money over @TwitchTV Live-streaming is the way to go if things turn for the worst over @youtube

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rigitdog

    Poor Angryjoe! ;( Good Money over @TwitchTV Live-streaming is the way to go if things turn for the worst over @youtube

    ..or get a proper job instead of yelling into a cam for clicks and views.

    image
  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by Rigitdog

    Poor Angryjoe! ;( Good Money over @TwitchTV Live-streaming is the way to go if things turn for the worst over @youtube

    ..or get a proper job instead of yelling into a cam for clicks and views.

    Who are you to say what a proper job is...or isn't.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by Rigitdog

    Poor Angryjoe! ;( Good Money over @TwitchTV Live-streaming is the way to go if things turn for the worst over @youtube

    ..or get a proper job instead of yelling into a cam for clicks and views.

    Who are you to say what a proper job is...or isn't.

    I agree with Badaboom.I'll support anyone trying to make a living doing what they are passionate about(as long as it's legal heh).Also there is a misconception that what some of these guys do is easy and has no overhead.

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