Originally posted by bobdole1979 SWG did essententially go freemium with the Sony Station Pass
What? I don't remember SWG going freemium, I remember that if you had a recurring sub before Sept 1st you were able to play sWG without having to pay anymore up until it shut down, I didn't have a recurring sub at the time and wasn't able to log in after Sept 1.
In Feb, SOE is getting rid of the $14.95/mo to individual games and changing it to Station Pass for $14.95/mo access to all games. Planetside 2 and DCUO are the only 2 games I think are worth bothering with anyways, Vanguard is terrible and EQ2 is bland but I will check out EQ:Next when it comes out since it'll be using the Forgelight engine that PS2 uses.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
"Best" is a worthless word, because it's completely subjective. Ask ten different people what the best MMO they have ever played is, and there is a decent chance you get ten different answers.
As for your argument about the relationship between quality and a sub, we established a long time ago from the synthesis of your posts that the only game that could even theoretically be considered "good" would be WoW. I think everybody gets that you are a big ole troll at this point.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
All that stuff you hear in Interviews and Game trailers is all PR Bullsh**. Every game developer says they love their subscribers but it's like real life. Actions speak louder then words. Wake up and Lets get back to reality here. If you want to continue buying EA/Bioware products and feeling ripped off then the developers will continue Ripping gamers off and laughing all the way to the bank. F2P is a lot like the Government, because it's only good if it's handled properly in a moderate manner were the customers are respected by the developers and company when they don't have to feel like they are being continually milked like they are in SWTOR. SWTOR is a descent game, but the Companys EA/Bioware who run it really have Respect for their subscribers at all, or the Starwars game itself, but just use it to Make millions each year. EQ2 has a fair and descent cashshop system and so does most other F2P Games because when you subscribe there is no unlocking too do. Everything in EQ2 for instance the SC Market Place is all Cosmetic you don't have to buy anything out of it at all, Plus they give you 5 free packs of cards that reward you with free loot and includes 500 SC cash. the Cartel Market used to reward players in the beginning with 1 Cartel Pack Free and 600 Cartel Coins. But they got cheap and greedy, so Now they just Give you 500 Cartel Coins a Month and no Cartel Pack. Yeah your not getting ripped off right? Wrong.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
"Best" is a worthless word, because it's completely subjective. Ask ten different people what the best MMO they have ever played is, and there is a decent chance you get ten different answers.
As for your argument about the relationship between quality and a sub, we established a long time ago from the synthesis of your posts that the only game that could even theoretically be considered "good" would be WoW. I think everybody gets that you are a big ole troll at this point.
but only one game has the best sales numbers
that is the product, that most people are willing , to spend their Cash on
this may be difficult for you , to accept, but there IS a connection between sales and quality
remember Aston martin lagonda? that car looks so cool
but it is a shitty car, so it didnt sell well, even with a big name
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength
how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?
yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20
wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?
EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
if you want to win, copy the champion
if not, do something else
numbers tell the tale
I'm taking a guess as what you're saying, so apologies if I've not interpreted things correctly.
This only works if all the games are the same, and if all the customers for all the games are the same. Even on this website there are people who prefer F2P systems over subscription systems. If this were not the case, every person who could afford a subscription, and who wanted to play an MMORPG would be playing World of Warcraft. This isn't the case though. Player preferences extend to types of games, game subject matter, particular game mechanics and the monetization system used. "[C]opy[ing] the champion" just isn't a viable model to address even a small portion of the many possible games that can be made or the many possible gamer preferences that exist.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
that is the product, that most people are willing , to spend their Cash on
this may be difficult for you , to accept, but there IS a connection between sales and quality
remember Aston martin lagonda? that car looks so cool
but it is a shitty car, so it didnt sell well, even with a big name
This may be difficult for you to accept, but when analyzing why one product manages to do something others don't, you have to look at all the differences. What are the primary differences between WoW today and other games? I'll give you a hint; the answer isn't quality. Actually, I'll just tell you straight out; it's about two things, the extremely high number of subscribers WoW had when it peaked, and the amount of customer loyalty you can build when your game has been around for a decade.
There are lots of games that have just as much quality as WoW. They just don't have ten years of history establishing a long term emotional connection with players.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
There are lots of games that have just as much quality as WoW. They just don't have ten years of history establishing a long term emotional connection with players.
I have played a LOT of MMOs (easily ALL of the more popular ones), and NO game has ever approached the general level of quality that WoW has. You may not like it, but you cannot argue that it does not deliver an impeccably tight gameplay experience.
Again, it may not be the game for you (it isn't for me either), but nothing else even remotely comes close to the level of quality that it delivers.
Don't be cheap. Pay some money to fund the game. Why are p2p gamers so cheap? Spend $15 and unlock some stuff and then you don't have to pay it again. Or spend $15 a month and do a sub. Threads where people whine about money are really getting annoying.
you know? this makes kinda sense...pay for the sith, pay for the hotbar, pay for some other stuff lets say total 20-25$? cool but thats once and done! i think its better that paying every month 15$ . Dont get me wrong ii've been on both sides of the coin and i support both sub and non-sub games. But this here kinda makes sense to me
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden I longed for her beauty Yet from dust, she returned The dream, an enigma.... silent
Not sure how 30+ pages of discussion still hasn't come to this conclusion.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
i would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business model
they Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?
and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signs
people will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength
how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?
yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20
wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?
EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game
Yes WOW IS FREEMIUM
Up to level 20 the FREE part then $20 to get all the way up to level 90 with Mists of Pandarai Thats the premium part.
THUS FREEMIUM
You didn't answer my question
What about Star Citizen? Its a game that is not going with a tradiational pay method. You have said if a game is good enough it can make it.
Originally posted by simpliusi would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business modelthey Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signspeople will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
Then why did TF2 go F2P?Why is WoW changing its business model?
TF2 didnt deliver, apparantly
wow is getting old, and the market has shown signs of new times
blizzard is milking wow for more Cash, while they can, yes they get penalty points for that too
theyre still MILES above swtor, both in quality, AND in quantity
TF2 was one of Valve's most popular game behind Counter-Strike before DOTA 2 came out. They were clever to turn TF2 into F2P, it rakes in MORE money.
Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by DamonVileOriginally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by simpliusi would put it this way: the best games dont have to change business modelthey Work fine, as is, and why fix something, that isnt broken?and, they dont have to lure in customers , using big FREE signspeople will gladly pay a fixed monthly fee , if they have faith in the product
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally. I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength
how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?
yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20
wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?
EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game
To be quite blunt, I would have still been subbing to City of Heroes (and yes even buying something from their cash shop) if NCSoft hadn't shut it down, but NCSoft wanted to push existing players to Guild Wars 2.
I have played a LOT of MMOs (easily ALL of the more popular ones), and NO game has ever approached the general level of quality that WoW has. You may not like it, but you cannot argue that it does not deliver an impeccably tight gameplay experience.
Again, it may not be the game for you (it isn't for me either), but nothing else even remotely comes close to the level of quality that it delivers.
I just don't agree. I find WoW consistently mediocre and boring. Is it polished? Yes, always has been. But it's not polished gold, it's polished pyrite. The only time I ever enjoyed it was back at the start of vanilla, when it was impressive not because it's quality was so high, but because it was being compared to other MMOs with such low quality. I admit Alterac Valley was a thing of beauty. But then they completed gutted it, throwing away the one thing they truly did well.
Compared to single player RPGs, it has always been a substantially below average experience.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
While i have always been a subscriber - at launch and again now when i came back - i have many preferred players in my guild that are doing pretty much everything i do, from raiding to PvP.... and they play for free minus some initial cost for some upgrades.
I think its a good deal... and if you don`t like F2P because its greedy you can just pay the standard sub and have everything unlocked and if you want even more - like more GTN slots etc you can get it with the Cartel Coins they give you, 500 a month, or buy them from the GTN...
Comments
In Feb, SOE is getting rid of the $14.95/mo to individual games and changing it to Station Pass for $14.95/mo access to all games. Planetside 2 and DCUO are the only 2 games I think are worth bothering with anyways, Vanguard is terrible and EQ2 is bland but I will check out EQ:Next when it comes out since it'll be using the Forgelight engine that PS2 uses.
"Best" is a worthless word, because it's completely subjective. Ask ten different people what the best MMO they have ever played is, and there is a decent chance you get ten different answers.
As for your argument about the relationship between quality and a sub, we established a long time ago from the synthesis of your posts that the only game that could even theoretically be considered "good" would be WoW. I think everybody gets that you are a big ole troll at this point.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Problem with free to play?
Simple solution, sub to the game and enjoy
It is not more then a couple of beers worth anyway
Then why did TF2 go F2P?
Why is WoW changing its business model?
I know this is a waste of time, but what evidence do you have that a fixed monthly fee is always the best fit for a "good" game, throughout the lifetime of the game? I'm not aware of any general model that applies to all games equally.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
the cult of infinite greed is the way in merica today, there should be no surprise in this.
What exactly are they losing? Your willingness to spend $5?
I think others are right. This F2P mentality has gone overboard. It's freaking $15 a month! That's like one hour of working at the majority of jobs.
But there's countless of people who will spend 8 hours a day on a game and expect every aspect of it to be free.
Cheers
-Trash
but only one game has the best sales numbers
that is the product, that most people are willing , to spend their Cash on
this may be difficult for you , to accept, but there IS a connection between sales and quality
remember Aston martin lagonda? that car looks so cool
but it is a shitty car, so it didnt sell well, even with a big name
TF2 didnt deliver, apparantly
wow is getting old, and the market has shown signs of new times
blizzard is milking wow for more Cash, while they can, yes they get penalty points for that too
theyre still MILES above swtor, both in quality, AND in quantity
if you want to win, copy the champion
if not, do something else
numbers tell the tale
yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength
how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?
yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20
wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?
EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game
I'm taking a guess as what you're saying, so apologies if I've not interpreted things correctly.
This only works if all the games are the same, and if all the customers for all the games are the same. Even on this website there are people who prefer F2P systems over subscription systems. If this were not the case, every person who could afford a subscription, and who wanted to play an MMORPG would be playing World of Warcraft. This isn't the case though. Player preferences extend to types of games, game subject matter, particular game mechanics and the monetization system used. "[C]opy[ing] the champion" just isn't a viable model to address even a small portion of the many possible games that can be made or the many possible gamer preferences that exist.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This may be difficult for you to accept, but when analyzing why one product manages to do something others don't, you have to look at all the differences. What are the primary differences between WoW today and other games? I'll give you a hint; the answer isn't quality. Actually, I'll just tell you straight out; it's about two things, the extremely high number of subscribers WoW had when it peaked, and the amount of customer loyalty you can build when your game has been around for a decade.
There are lots of games that have just as much quality as WoW. They just don't have ten years of history establishing a long term emotional connection with players.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I have played a LOT of MMOs (easily ALL of the more popular ones), and NO game has ever approached the general level of quality that WoW has. You may not like it, but you cannot argue that it does not deliver an impeccably tight gameplay experience.
Again, it may not be the game for you (it isn't for me either), but nothing else even remotely comes close to the level of quality that it delivers.
you know? this makes kinda sense...pay for the sith, pay for the hotbar, pay for some other stuff lets say total 20-25$? cool but thats once and done! i think its better that paying every month 15$ . Dont get me wrong ii've been on both sides of the coin and i support both sub and non-sub games. But this here kinda makes sense to me
Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent
Choices:
1) Purchase a subscription
2) Buy from the cash shop
3) Not play
Not sure how 30+ pages of discussion still hasn't come to this conclusion.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
It made 139 million last year.
Yes WOW IS FREEMIUM
Up to level 20 the FREE part then $20 to get all the way up to level 90 with Mists of Pandarai Thats the premium part.
THUS FREEMIUM
You didn't answer my question
What about Star Citizen? Its a game that is not going with a tradiational pay method. You have said if a game is good enough it can make it.
The system is paying off apparently to the tune of 139 million in profits.
World of Tanks has made a shit ton of money too.
I wonder what he has to say about wow adding a cash shop. Their business model has been evolving ( IE changing ) for years. They've also been running ADs saying play warcraft for FREE!!! ( to lvl 20 ) for a long time...but then I wouldn't put it past someone here to say the largest most successful mmo isn't among the best mmos.
yes, they are milking, that fact is a evidence for wows strength
how many other 8 year old games, can get people to open their wallets, like that?
yes, that ad is bad, but wow still isnt freemum..only up to lvl 20
wow is getting OLD, and it shows. how many other 8 year old games do you play?
EVE has adapted better, but its so much easier, to do with a small game
To be quite blunt, I would have still been subbing to City of Heroes (and yes even buying something from their cash shop) if NCSoft hadn't shut it down, but NCSoft wanted to push existing players to Guild Wars 2.
I just don't agree. I find WoW consistently mediocre and boring. Is it polished? Yes, always has been. But it's not polished gold, it's polished pyrite. The only time I ever enjoyed it was back at the start of vanilla, when it was impressive not because it's quality was so high, but because it was being compared to other MMOs with such low quality. I admit Alterac Valley was a thing of beauty. But then they completed gutted it, throwing away the one thing they truly did well.
Compared to single player RPGs, it has always been a substantially below average experience.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
While i have always been a subscriber - at launch and again now when i came back - i have many preferred players in my guild that are doing pretty much everything i do, from raiding to PvP.... and they play for free minus some initial cost for some upgrades.
I think its a good deal... and if you don`t like F2P because its greedy you can just pay the standard sub and have everything unlocked and if you want even more - like more GTN slots etc you can get it with the Cartel Coins they give you, 500 a month, or buy them from the GTN...