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Guys, lets try to remember, this is still an MMORPG

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  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    I never stated it as fact.

    My inferred point was that it's way better than Most MMOs out there (i.e. the 90% that ended up as failures; and yes, 90% is just a guess).

    image
  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Because a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience may not be received well by devout Elder Scrolls fans.

    But, it should be enough to actually be better than general mmorpgs. Thats were im going with this.

    But what I'm trying to say is that the diehard Elder Scrolls fan may not think it's better than other Elder Scrolls games, and thus may not be interested enough to stay. For such players, the Elder Scrolls aspect is the foremost point of attraction, not the MMO aspect.

    image
  • merv808merv808 Member UncommonPosts: 511
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    And thats not a bad thing, at all. The reason i am posting this is because im noticing people getting skeptical.

    Being skeptical is fine, but im talking over-skeptical. The type of people who are comparing the game to Skyrim, and every little difference makes them mad or loose faith in the game.

    Lets try to remember, this is still an MMORPG. 

    Here is an example of what im trying to say:

    (This is what i hear people say, A LOT.)

    "That screenshot is ugly, those graphics suck."- To these types of people, have you ever even played an MMO? From what i have seen, TESO's graphics are great for an MMORPG to be honest with you. But thats subjective i suppose.'

     

    TESO actually is offering a lot for a MMORPG to be honest. I mean, its promising a crime system, its got the mages guild and fighters guild and ect., any class can use any armor type and weapon, heck, its even got 1st person view on it!

    And for me, thats enough to be optimistic.

     

    Thanks.

     

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

     

    Relative to former TES games such as Skyrim,

    TESO doesn't quite live up to the Elder Scrolls name.

    And that, in my mind, is the biggest concern.

    Because a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience may not be received well by devout Elder Scrolls fans.

     

    Skyrim was a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience and it was very well recieved

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by merv808
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    And thats not a bad thing, at all. The reason i am posting this is because im noticing people getting skeptical.

    Being skeptical is fine, but im talking over-skeptical. The type of people who are comparing the game to Skyrim, and every little difference makes them mad or loose faith in the game.

    Lets try to remember, this is still an MMORPG. 

    Here is an example of what im trying to say:

    (This is what i hear people say, A LOT.)

    "That screenshot is ugly, those graphics suck."- To these types of people, have you ever even played an MMO? From what i have seen, TESO's graphics are great for an MMORPG to be honest with you. But thats subjective i suppose.'

     

    TESO actually is offering a lot for a MMORPG to be honest. I mean, its promising a crime system, its got the mages guild and fighters guild and ect., any class can use any armor type and weapon, heck, its even got 1st person view on it!

    And for me, thats enough to be optimistic.

     

    Thanks.

     

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

     

    Relative to former TES games such as Skyrim,

    TESO doesn't quite live up to the Elder Scrolls name.

    And that, in my mind, is the biggest concern.

    Because a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience may not be received well by devout Elder Scrolls fans.

     

    Skyrim was a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience and it was very well recieved

    Achingly beg to differ there! Skyrim succeeded beyond all measure having fully embodied the Elder Scrolls experience.

    image
  • Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    You cannot tell the future.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by merv808
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    And thats not a bad thing, at all. The reason i am posting this is because im noticing people getting skeptical.

    Being skeptical is fine, but im talking over-skeptical. The type of people who are comparing the game to Skyrim, and every little difference makes them mad or loose faith in the game.

    Lets try to remember, this is still an MMORPG. 

    Here is an example of what im trying to say:

    (This is what i hear people say, A LOT.)

    "That screenshot is ugly, those graphics suck."- To these types of people, have you ever even played an MMO? From what i have seen, TESO's graphics are great for an MMORPG to be honest with you. But thats subjective i suppose.'

     

    TESO actually is offering a lot for a MMORPG to be honest. I mean, its promising a crime system, its got the mages guild and fighters guild and ect., any class can use any armor type and weapon, heck, its even got 1st person view on it!

    And for me, thats enough to be optimistic.

     

    Thanks.

     

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

     

    Relative to former TES games such as Skyrim,

    TESO doesn't quite live up to the Elder Scrolls name.

    And that, in my mind, is the biggest concern.

    Because a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience may not be received well by devout Elder Scrolls fans.

     

    Skyrim was a watered-down Elder Scrolls experience and it was very well recieved

    Achingly beg to differ there! Skyrim succeeded beyond all measure having fully embodied the Elder Scrolls experience.

    Really my elder scrolls experience has been totally different with every game i played

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • RinnaRinna Member UncommonPosts: 389

    As long as the publisher/devs keep the overhead low and realize they're not shooting for WoW numbers, just for enough happy players to keep the lights on and pay decent salaries, keep people employed, they should focus on their target market and just go with it and the game will be fine and everything it's meant to be.

    If they try and please all the people, PVP, PVE, Skyrim hardcores, then they're going to have a rough time.  I'm a PvEer but I'm happy that they're not raid and end game focused.  I honestly hope that will turn most of the elitest crybaby lalas away and just leave a 'patient' pvp community and lore/skyrim lovers behind to enjoy the game.   Take 'endgame' out of the equation and I think that will diminish a lot of the rush through content.  You KNOW the story is going to be well written and the NPC's are going to be colorful.  

    I think it will do well, as long as they don't lose sight of the goal, and make sure the goal is realistic.

    No bitchers.

  • funyahnsfunyahns Member Posts: 315
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    You cannot tell the future.

     He might not be able to, but I am pretty confident I can. It will have some similarities too SwToR.   It probably will not sell nearly as many copies, then most of the people will bail out on the game.  It will be left with somewhere between 25k to 125k people. Not so much telling the future as judging based off of recent history.   I am unsure who they are trying to reach with this game.  Should be funny to watch unfold though.

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Originally posted by funyahns
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    You cannot tell the future.

     He might not be able to, but I am pretty confident I can. It will have some similarities too SwToR.   It probably will not sell nearly as many copies, then most of the people will bail out on the game.  It will be left with somewhere between 25k to 125k people. Not so much telling the future as judging based off of recent history.   I am unsure who they are trying to reach with this game.  Should be funny to watch unfold though.

    Less. I suspect they sell a million copies, maybe 750K depending on if they have an open beta or not and how much the game progresses.

     

    What people fail to realize is this game has at most 6 months left before release. assuming they want to keep that 2nd Quarter deadline. Some people think it may be released as early as late March Early April then thats 4 months. Anyone that played the beta knows its more than 4 months from release. 

     

    But even if they really ramp up beta play and have one every month that is still on;y 3 more betas. I dont think they are because there hasnt been one announced for Dec yet. Or I suppose they could shoot for two betas with longer play time and rolling updates. So two 7 day betas with downtime and updates (similar to weekly maintenance) might work.

     

    In the end it still comes down to the price. 60 bux,  15/mo AND a cash shop. But I have stated what I thought about that from the get go. Free to play or buy to play within 6 months.

     

    They should really delay it, get their cash shop in full swing and just release as a buy to play with a cash shop. That way they might have a prayer of holding some players. These developers that want to sell a million copies and then think they can hold a percentage of them are dreaming. It has failed time and time again, the major factor in holding more people is THE PEOPLE. Thats why GW2 is holding players. It isnt that great a game, pretty boring actually but its free to play once you buy it and thus people sick around. Thats all the excuse they need.

     

    EVERYONE wants these games to be awesome, people are BEGGING for a game that can be what I call a 'destination game' the game you go to because there is stuff to do and people to do it with. People WOULD pay a sub for a game like that I think, this game isnt it. It might be eventually but by then, as history has shown it is too late, people will have moved on to the next thing and the numbers will be lost. Even rereleasing as a free to play or free to play if you bought it isnt enough, sure it brings people back for a while but generally they figure out why they left in the first place and they go again. These companies have a lot of smart people working for them it is amazing the ALL make the same mistakes every other company makes, I guess its Hubris. 

     

    I hope I am wrong. I hope the next beta is amazing and it delivers on everything everyone wants. Not likely but that is the beauty of a game still in development, there is always an unknown even when you thin you know everything.

  • Originally posted by funyahns
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    You cannot tell the future.

     He might not be able to, but I am pretty confident I can. It will have some similarities too SwToR.   It probably will not sell nearly as many copies, then most of the people will bail out on the game.  It will be left with somewhere between 25k to 125k people. Not so much telling the future as judging based off of recent history.   I am unsure who they are trying to reach with this game.  Should be funny to watch unfold though.

    Why so skeptical, pal?

    Have you played the beta, if not you have nothing to be skeptical about. I will assure you.

  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    "You can trust me, I wouldn't lie to a stranger."

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • MargulisMargulis Member CommonPosts: 1,614
    It's a lot better than I thought it would be.
  • Originally posted by Deivos
    "You can trust me, I wouldn't lie to a stranger."

    Of course you can. Were else am i suppose to get my candy supply from?

  • MyownGodMyownGod Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior

    And thats not a bad thing, at all. The reason i am posting this is because im noticing people getting skeptical.

    Being skeptical is fine, but im talking over-skeptical. The type of people who are comparing the game to Skyrim, and every little difference makes them mad or loose faith in the game.

    Lets try to remember, this is still an MMORPG. 

    Here is an example of what im trying to say:

    (This is what i hear people say, A LOT.)

    "That screenshot is ugly, those graphics suck."- To these types of people, have you ever even played an MMO? From what i have seen, TESO's graphics are great for an MMORPG to be honest with you. But thats subjective i suppose.'

     

    TESO actually is offering a lot for a MMORPG to be honest. I mean, its promising a crime system, its got the mages guild and fighters guild and ect., any class can use any armor type and weapon, heck, its even got 1st person view on it!

    And for me, thats enough to be optimistic.

     

    Thanks.

    That's funny, because the developer them selves even said TESO is more like a co-op multiplayer game. Involving your own instance for the story missions, BAH! I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ANYMORE!! -flips table-.

  • MyownGodMyownGod Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by Deivos
    "You can trust me, I wouldn't lie to a stranger."

    Of course you can. Were else am i suppose to get my candy supply from?

    A guy named stranger who live in a white van that tends to park across a children playground.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by funyahns
    Originally posted by Heavy-armor-warrior
    Originally posted by tasburath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Relative to the cesspool of MMOs out there,

    you're absolutely right,

    TESO is leaps and bounds better than what's out there.

    It's not leaps and bounds better than what's out there.  That's your opinion, don't state it as fact.

    I am of the opinion that a majority of experienced MMO players are going to play this game and realize that it's just plain bad and go back to whatever they were playing before it.

    You cannot tell the future.

     He might not be able to, but I am pretty confident I can. It will have some similarities too SwToR.   It probably will not sell nearly as many copies, then most of the people will bail out on the game.  It will be left with somewhere between 25k to 125k people. Not so much telling the future as judging based off of recent history.   I am unsure who they are trying to reach with this game.  Should be funny to watch unfold though.

    Why so skeptical, pal?

    Have you played the beta, if not you have nothing to be skeptical about. I will assure you.

    I played the beta, and I can say that everyone should be skeptical. There's a fair number of good points, but there is a tremendous lack of polish. I can really see this game appealing to a niche market, but I don't see any mass appeal to this game at all.

    ESO also has to contend with Wildstar, which looks far more polished, and of course the next WoW expansion (which historically sell well). I am willing to bet that Blizzard is aiming for a similar release time as both WS and ESO. Between the three, ESO will most likely be the odd man out. 

    Before you respond with some on liner such as; "you can't tell the future" and all that jazz. We can glean into the future by looking at the past. Aside from WoW, very few popular IPs have done well in the mmo market; Star Trek, LotRO, SWTOR, Warhammer, Matrix Online, and DCUO for a few examples of IPs that didn't do well. Additionally, when a mmo has attempted to break away from the typical mmo formula, it has been lauded as well (GW2 is a perfect example). Given those two historical references I'm going to wager that ESO doesn't fare well beyond the first month or two.

    It's based on a very popular IP, and there are a ton of faulty assumptions that the game is going to be Elder Scrolls multiplayer (just look at the constant Skyrim comparisons). Secondly, the game is breaking away from enough of the standard Themepark mmo formula to make people uncomfortable.

    As much as I would love for ESO to do well and grow into a great game. Given experience, I can't see this happening.

  • PigglesworthPigglesworth Member UncommonPosts: 260
    Haters just love to hate.

    @PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

    Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

    Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vynt
    There are a lot of things I like about ESO, but the main thing I don't like is a killer for me, and that is the combat. Can't stand it. Never really liked clicking the mouse for attacks, blocks etc. I played a decent amount, and I just couldn't get into it. I didn't mind the skills that went to the hotbar, but over all, the combat doesn't appeal to me.

    It was designed to be played with a controller.

    That isn't really true at all.  Porting it to consoles came pretty recently (last few years).

    The games only been in development for the "last few years". 

    If they only decided to port it in the "last few years" then that decision was made at the same time they started actual development.  Or otherwise known as, from the beginning. 

    Zenimax Online Studios was setup in 2007, specifically for ESO.  It was in development for about 5 years before they even announced it.

    You make me like charity

  • deakondeakon Member Posts: 583
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vynt
    There are a lot of things I like about ESO, but the main thing I don't like is a killer for me, and that is the combat. Can't stand it. Never really liked clicking the mouse for attacks, blocks etc. I played a decent amount, and I just couldn't get into it. I didn't mind the skills that went to the hotbar, but over all, the combat doesn't appeal to me.

    It was designed to be played with a controller.

     

     

    No it wasn't, originally when it was announced at e3 2012 it was just tab target combat and didn't have mouse aiming at all, and your heavy and light attacks took up 1 and 2 on your action bar. Everyone freaked out and called it a wow clone so they changed it to aim based targeting and moved your heavy/light attacks to the right mouse (just like ALL TES games even the pc exclusive ones), people still complained so they added first person.

     

    The control scheme is the way it is because people complained when it had a more traditional mmo control system, the new control scheme is the reason why they could port it to the consoles, not he other way around

  • deakondeakon Member Posts: 583
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Vynt
    There are a lot of things I like about ESO, but the main thing I don't like is a killer for me, and that is the combat. Can't stand it. Never really liked clicking the mouse for attacks, blocks etc. I played a decent amount, and I just couldn't get into it. I didn't mind the skills that went to the hotbar, but over all, the combat doesn't appeal to me.

    It was designed to be played with a controller.

    That isn't really true at all.  Porting it to consoles came pretty recently (last few years).

    The games only been in development for the "last few years". 

    If they only decided to port it in the "last few years" then that decision was made at the same time they started actual development.  Or otherwise known as, from the beginning. 

    The game has been in development since 2007, so nearly 7 years. It was first shown to the public in may 2012 and it was tab target based (not mouse aiming) typical mmo combat, it changed to mouse aiming due to everyone screaming wow clone when it was first shown, porting to consoles only really became viable after that change was made

  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583

    I'm pretty sure this game will suck, and I will not buy it at release. But I will continue to follow development, and after it's released, I will read reviews to get a feel about the average opinions.

    But I will not even try the game before they offer a free trial, regardless of the average scores. Simply because I've bought too many games in the past which I couldn't bare to play for more than an hour.

    I really do hope this becomes a great MMO, but unfortunately I doubt that very much. Too many weird decisions have been made along the way, which doesn't suit me at all.

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I'm pretty sure this game will suck, and I will not buy it at release. But I will continue to follow development, and after it's released, I will read reviews to get a feel about the average opinions.

    But I will not even try the game before they offer a free trial, regardless of the average scores. Simply because I've bought too many games in the past which I couldn't bare to play for more than an hour.

    I really do hope this becomes a great MMO, but unfortunately I doubt that very much. Too many weird decisions have been made along the way, which doesn't suit me at all.

    Yeah I'm going to get a few months out of it anyway, I'll probably leaving when you finally decide to check it out. I have nothing else to look forward too game wise so will pick it up at launch.

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I'm pretty sure this game will suck, and I will not buy it at release. But I will continue to follow development, and after it's released, I will read reviews to get a feel about the average opinions.

    But I will not even try the game before they offer a free trial, regardless of the average scores. Simply because I've bought too many games in the past which I couldn't bare to play for more than an hour.

    I really do hope this becomes a great MMO, but unfortunately I doubt that very much. Too many weird decisions have been made along the way, which doesn't suit me at all.

    I doubt it will 'suck'. I will just be another MMO if anything. I bought Warhammer, I bought AoC, I bought Rift, I bought Fallen Earth. I liked all of those except Warhammer. But with enough people even that was playable. But the pop dried up because there wasnt anything to do at max level. Same with Conan.

     

    I didnt buy Aion, I didnt buy SWOTOR, I didnt buy anything after those.

     

    I did buy GW2 but mostly because it is buy to play and I can log on anytime I want to and play it.

     

    But MMOs are MMOs. People dislike the game for a myriad of reasons. THAT is the most telling thing about this.

     

    Like I said somewhere else its a watered down version of both entities.  A watered down MMO pisses off the MMO crowd, a watered down Elder Scrolls approach pisses off the ES crowd too. No raids pisses off the raiders (what few there are left) a watered down PvP/RvR system pisses off the PvP crowd.

     

    While you cant please everyone most MMOs appeal to at least one portion of the players theyre looking to attract.

     

    From reading the positive reviews of the game thus far the people who like it would like anything. They like any MMO they play because they appreciate the 'work' it takes to do it. Not understanding that some stuff is as simple as cutting and pasting to make a game. There is also a small contingent of casual ES IP fans who are just looking at the IP and would play any game with the environment. Akin to the players who still think Lotro is a 'good' game because its set in Middle Earth. Its all subjective so no one is really wrong. Some are just less informed than others or have lower standards or look at these games like parents look at their kids.

  • Originally posted by rodarin
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I'm pretty sure this game will suck, and I will not buy it at release. But I will continue to follow development, and after it's released, I will read reviews to get a feel about the average opinions.

    But I will not even try the game before they offer a free trial, regardless of the average scores. Simply because I've bought too many games in the past which I couldn't bare to play for more than an hour.

    I really do hope this becomes a great MMO, but unfortunately I doubt that very much. Too many weird decisions have been made along the way, which doesn't suit me at all.

    I doubt it will 'suck'. I will just be another MMO if anything. I bought Warhammer, I bought AoC, I bought Rift, I bought Fallen Earth. I liked all of those except Warhammer. But with enough people even that was playable. But the pop dried up because there wasnt anything to do at max level. Same with Conan.

     

    I didnt buy Aion, I didnt buy SWOTOR, I didnt buy anything after those.

     

    I did buy GW2 but mostly because it is buy to play and I can log on anytime I want to and play it.

     

    But MMOs are MMOs. People dislike the game for a myriad of reasons. THAT is the most telling thing about this.

     

    Like I said somewhere else its a watered down version of both entities.  A watered down MMO pisses off the MMO crowd, a watered down Elder Scrolls approach pisses off the ES crowd too. No raids pisses off the raiders (what few there are left) a watered down PvP/RvR system pisses off the PvP crowd.

     

    While you cant please everyone most MMOs appeal to at least one portion of the players theyre looking to attract.

     

    From reading the positive reviews of the game thus far the people who like it would like anything. They like any MMO they play because they appreciate the 'work' it takes to do it. Not understanding that some stuff is as simple as cutting and pasting to make a game. There is also a small contingent of casual ES IP fans who are just looking at the IP and would play any game with the environment. Akin to the players who still think Lotro is a 'good' game because its set in Middle Earth. Its all subjective so no one is really wrong. Some are just less informed than others or have lower standards or look at these games like parents look at their kids.

    Great post.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    Not sure why people keep calling it tab targeting standard combat. I can say for fact it feels the same as any other elder scrolls game...

    image
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