GW2 is a great example of when more (updates) does not equal better. It's nice that they want to be "different" but it just doesn't work out so well for a lot of people's tastes (including mine.) Maybe if the Living Story wasn't so disjointed and boring I would feel differently about it.
The problem, for me, with GW2 is that the updates have been of a type that is not interesting to me at all: more jumping puzzles, "Living Story" (zzzz…), holiday events, class tweaks -- it's all well and good.
But if they ever bring in an honest-to-goodness real, full-fledged expansion, I'll consider actually coming back to this game.
So we've had a series of living story updates that have brought about new zones, changes to existing zones, new skills, class balances, revamped Fractals, Meta events, holiday events, a WvW skill progression system, a new LFG tool, changing and advancing storylines, dungeons, jumping puzzles, new enemies, new ascended weapons and armors, a revamped magic find system, new sPvP maps, changed WvW maps, etc., but that's not good enough... so what would you like to see in an expansion?
Originally posted by nerovipus32 To be honest i don't want to play an mmo that adds jumping puzzles as content. I was excited about the launch of GW2 but it has utterly disappointed me.
I agree, but the alternative is games with an expansion ever 2 years, which is basically just more kill rats quests in a new map.
EVE Online has had 20 expansions. Sometimes they manage to infuriate the player base with them but you can't say CCP isn't trying. With what Arenanet is doing? They ain't trying and talking about how you have the most updated game when these updates are 90% bullshit is an insult to your customers.
That page is a fraction of AC's updates as there are still 9 more years of monthly updates after that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When TESO will be released, GW2 will be another "generic-over-hyped-and-forgotten-MMO" like there are a lot out there.
Just think, if GW2 had a monthly fee, how many players would be still playing it? It would change to F2P in few months after release, just like other generic MMOs out there.
The only good thing of GW2 is being B2P, but ther eare far better B2P MMOs out there.
doubful.
ive been fortunate to be in beta for both, they are completely different.
my only hopes for the TESO release next year is thatll get Anet to actually release and expansion pack to the game- revealing their closed content currently on their map.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The problem, for me, with GW2 is that the updates have been of a type that is not interesting to me at all: more jumping puzzles, "Living Story" (zzzz…), holiday events, class tweaks -- it's all well and good.
But if they ever bring in an honest-to-goodness real, full-fledged expansion, I'll consider actually coming back to this game.
So we've had a series of living story updates that have brought about new zones, changes to existing zones, new skills, class balances, revamped Fractals, Meta events, holiday events, a WvW skill progression system, a new LFG tool, changing and advancing storylines, dungeons, jumping puzzles, new enemies, new ascended weapons and armors, a revamped magic find system, new sPvP maps, changed WvW maps, etc., but that's not good enough... so what would you like to see in an expansion?
First of all one new zone does not equal "zones." Second, if the change to existing zones is so little that it is practically unnoticeable than I don't count it as a true change (not to the extent that GW2 was originally advertised as a "living, breathing world"). Events as well as holiday events are all the same exact thing (grind those achievements for a skin or a back item; not to mention items that people actually want from the events and "living" stories are largely RNG based).
An LFG tool that should have been there at launch. Storylines? Really? You actually classify the poor writing that they have infused into the game as "storylines?" Okay...
What are people asking for? Lasting PvE content! Not more tiny little changes that are barely a blimp on any ones radar. Not more fractals and jumping puzzles as there are more than enough now. Not more poorly written and implemented "living" stories. Not more ascended gear that's only sole purpose is to for people to work for something towards at endgame because of the lack of good endgame content (GW2: Promises to have no raiding because endgame should not be about a grind for gear... And then implements ascended gear... Genius I tell you!).
No, none of that. There needs to be more permanent PvE content, something people have been crying for, for a very long time now. All this comes from someone who played the original Guild Wars and has been apart of Guild Wars 2 since its Beta, and truly cares about the game and wants to see it rise from the slums that it seems to be residing in currently.
24 updates since this games inception including the holiday events and repeated events. Can you really count those as updates? Really?
This article is overall stupid and for the most part leaving me speechless as to how ignorant and blind the writer is. What happened to someone doing research before they accidentally spout false information?
You made the same mistake as me and didn't finish reading the article which brought up player's concerns.
Often updated but lacks quality so much. MOST OF updates are re runs of old content one dungeon path for 1h or some useless life burning achievements farm in 1 year not much changed no huge major changes. Fractal for for 9 months has bugs ... only now fixed rly ?
24 updates since this games inception including the holiday events and repeated events. Can you really count those as updates? Really?
This article is overall stupid and for the most part leaving me speechless as to how ignorant and blind the writer is. What happened to someone doing research before they accidentally spout false information?
Probably the same thing that happened to actually reading an article before commenting on it. If you bothered to read it, the whole thing was criticising the lack of significant content addition.
Quite a difference between updating with actual useable content and fluff content. GW2 just makes content for the sake of making content not actual good useable endgame content. Mainly because GW2 is made for the ultra casuals that do not play MMOs. So they give the appearance of adding content which keeps happy the people who do not play MMOs except in the most liberal definition of play.
But on the flip side if people are happy that I am happy for them. My concern is the effects that games with such shallow and simple gameplay have on the genre as a whole. Articles like this that distort the quality and quantity of the actual content do not help the genre.
Every time I hear someone say that they want their actions to have a real impact on the world, I just feel like I want to SMACK them. I hate it when people say this. THey are so full of bullshit it's unreal. Article is bang on the money. People will complain about everything. Give them permanent content which is accessible they will complain about the impact they have on the world. Give them a temporary content which changes the world, they will complain again. Seriously!
I hate temporary content and I hate people who moan about having an impact in an MMO. Those people should go play a singleplayer game. Cause I haven't seen a SINGLE MMO which lets you have a real impact on the world. So they want something which doesn't exist and which will probably never exist!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Every time I hear someone say that they want their actions to have a real impact on the world, I just feel like I want to SMACK them. I hate it when people say this. THey are so full of bullshit it's unreal. Article is bang on the money. People will complain about everything. Give them permanent content which is accessible they will complain about the impact they have on the world. Give them a temporary content which changes the world, they will complain again. Seriously!
I hate temporary content and I hate people who moan about having an impact in an MMO. Those people should go play a singleplayer game. Cause I haven't seen a SINGLE MMO which lets you have a real impact on the world. So they want something which doesn't exist and which will probably never exist!
Accept the temporary content doesn't change the world in Guild Wars 2... Unless you count having zergs with different mobs than usual in one zone or area as "changing the world."
Every time I hear someone say that they want their actions to have a real impact on the world, I just feel like I want to SMACK them. I hate it when people say this. THey are so full of bullshit it's unreal. Article is bang on the money. People will complain about everything. Give them permanent content which is accessible they will complain about the impact they have on the world. Give them a temporary content which changes the world, they will complain again. Seriously!
I hate temporary content and I hate people who moan about having an impact in an MMO. Those people should go play a singleplayer game. Cause I haven't seen a SINGLE MMO which lets you have a real impact on the world. So they want something which doesn't exist and which will probably never exist!
It can exist, but only in the form of PvP and sandboxes. Changing the PvE world is simply beyond the scope of any development, aside from a few gimmicky elections or so forth. You are never going to be the only person to kill that boss, they simply cost too much to develop to have this kind of thing be exclusive to each player.
Maybe when AI evolves it might become a reality, but anything overly scripted is never going to be unique or world changing. Honestly I think GW2 was going in the right direction with dynamic events, but they needed to make the zone events easier to fail and actually have much longer cooldowns. When the same army is invading every hour it doesn't feel like you've acoomplished anything, even though following the events around the zone is cool.
I agree with pretty much everything said except two things:
"Aside from time constraints, another issue with the temporary content is its close ties to the game's gem store."
The gem store stuff might be thematically linked to the Living Story, but that's all cosmetic items, like skins, so nothing that's needed in game? Not sure how exactly this is a negative?
I also haven't really noticed "slip shod" content. Yes, there are a few bugs and exploits that typically get hot fixed the same day. If you think the LS is boring, fine, but that's not what "slip shod" means.
Asheron's Call 1 has had monthly updates for over 14 years. So even at bi-weekly updates that means GW2 has to run for 7 years just to hit that number, at which point Asheron's Call will have added monthly updates while they were catching up...
So yeah, not anywhere in the ballpark of the most updated MMO in the world.
You could try most frequently updated if you really wanted to try to make it something, but it still isn't that impressive because it isn't a new concept. Again, one of the original MMOs, AC, decided to do monthly updates from the start. It took another company a good 13 years to decide to try regular updates.
Having lots of small updates =/= more the a big update. Its about WHAT is added. There is no difference say if I needed to paint my car blue in a month. If I were to put a dab of paint every day on my car every day till the end of the month, or if I were to do it all on the very last day, its the same amount of work just how its delivered is different.
Though its quite entertaining seeing that one suck up article there linked which a lot of the 'points' I call bogus on. XD
I understand how they are pitching the game is different. They aren't going for 'grindy content' (well... raids and stuff, the game for certain IS grindy if your not spending Real money on currency in the game or for cosmetics which they push a lot). They need to balance out frequent updates while having actually big content updates to make players feel as if they are doing something. PvE is often about progression. Sure, you don't NEED an old school MMo style were gear was 70% of a players ability to do things, but you could certainly have content that you 'progress' through still providing challenge and having a story.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should focus on the story like it was in the personal story (which ranged from "Mildly Entertaining" to cringe worthy terrible) but they could learn from their mistakes and really learn to tell a story in a much more subtle fashion.
"For more than a year, free-to-play MMO Guild Wars 2"
Why do people always get this wrong? It's buy-to-play., just like TSW is b2p. EQ2 is f2p. Rift is f2p. Swtor is f2p.
As for the "most updated mmo", well, sort of. The quality of it isn't so great though, especially when most of it was temporary or holiday events.
As if the quality of content is connected with how long it is available.
The Mad King's Tower is an awesome jumping puzzle that returns every year.
Southsun is an area with an interesting jumping puzzle and tough enemies.
The Queen's Gauntlet was a cool player vs boss (or mobs) with different mechanics.
The Bazaar of the Four winds jumping achievement was quite good.
Tequatl revamp created a tough open world boss.
The Tower of Nightmares is also a tough place where groups are required for survival.
Fractals are decent dungeons.
Some of the mini games, like southsun survival or the aspect arena, are quite good and available.
There are also a few open world mini dungeons that were added after release and are interesting.
I think the point was a bunch of jumping puzzles and once a year content isn't really content to begin with. Same with mini games. You can only play so many rounds of mini games and Mario style jump puzzles before you start craving some real meat and potatoes. The biggest problem being that they can't really add any true meat to the game because they have backed themselves into a corner with no progression, no trinity, no options. Most other MMO's already have these timed events every year, so I don't really consider those "content updates".
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Comments
If there was ever an article out there that showed who read it based on their comment alone, this is it.
As for the article itself..ouch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So we've had a series of living story updates that have brought about new zones, changes to existing zones, new skills, class balances, revamped Fractals, Meta events, holiday events, a WvW skill progression system, a new LFG tool, changing and advancing storylines, dungeons, jumping puzzles, new enemies, new ascended weapons and armors, a revamped magic find system, new sPvP maps, changed WvW maps, etc., but that's not good enough... so what would you like to see in an expansion?
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sure, there are a lot of updates, but they don't really bring much to the table in terms of actual solid content. It should be quality over quantity.
EVE Online has had 20 expansions. Sometimes they manage to infuriate the player base with them but you can't say CCP isn't trying. With what Arenanet is doing? They ain't trying and talking about how you have the most updated game when these updates are 90% bullshit is an insult to your customers.
GW2 is the world's most updated MMO because
Asheron's Call
is out of this world! Woot!
http://themess.com/acbuildnotes/
That page is a fraction of AC's updates as there are still 9 more years of monthly updates after that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
doubful.
ive been fortunate to be in beta for both, they are completely different.
my only hopes for the TESO release next year is thatll get Anet to actually release and expansion pack to the game- revealing their closed content currently on their map.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
First of all one new zone does not equal "zones." Second, if the change to existing zones is so little that it is practically unnoticeable than I don't count it as a true change (not to the extent that GW2 was originally advertised as a "living, breathing world"). Events as well as holiday events are all the same exact thing (grind those achievements for a skin or a back item; not to mention items that people actually want from the events and "living" stories are largely RNG based).
An LFG tool that should have been there at launch. Storylines? Really? You actually classify the poor writing that they have infused into the game as "storylines?" Okay...
What are people asking for? Lasting PvE content! Not more tiny little changes that are barely a blimp on any ones radar. Not more fractals and jumping puzzles as there are more than enough now. Not more poorly written and implemented "living" stories. Not more ascended gear that's only sole purpose is to for people to work for something towards at endgame because of the lack of good endgame content (GW2: Promises to have no raiding because endgame should not be about a grind for gear... And then implements ascended gear... Genius I tell you!).
No, none of that. There needs to be more permanent PvE content, something people have been crying for, for a very long time now. All this comes from someone who played the original Guild Wars and has been apart of Guild Wars 2 since its Beta, and truly cares about the game and wants to see it rise from the slums that it seems to be residing in currently.
Smile
You made the same mistake as me and didn't finish reading the article which brought up player's concerns.
Smile
Probably the same thing that happened to actually reading an article before commenting on it. If you bothered to read it, the whole thing was criticising the lack of significant content addition.
Is Pistol/pistol any cooler than it was back then!?
Quite a difference between updating with actual useable content and fluff content. GW2 just makes content for the sake of making content not actual good useable endgame content. Mainly because GW2 is made for the ultra casuals that do not play MMOs. So they give the appearance of adding content which keeps happy the people who do not play MMOs except in the most liberal definition of play.
But on the flip side if people are happy that I am happy for them. My concern is the effects that games with such shallow and simple gameplay have on the genre as a whole. Articles like this that distort the quality and quantity of the actual content do not help the genre.
Every time I hear someone say that they want their actions to have a real impact on the world, I just feel like I want to SMACK them. I hate it when people say this. THey are so full of bullshit it's unreal. Article is bang on the money. People will complain about everything. Give them permanent content which is accessible they will complain about the impact they have on the world. Give them a temporary content which changes the world, they will complain again. Seriously!
I hate temporary content and I hate people who moan about having an impact in an MMO. Those people should go play a singleplayer game. Cause I haven't seen a SINGLE MMO which lets you have a real impact on the world. So they want something which doesn't exist and which will probably never exist!
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Accept the temporary content doesn't change the world in Guild Wars 2... Unless you count having zergs with different mobs than usual in one zone or area as "changing the world."
Smile
It can exist, but only in the form of PvP and sandboxes. Changing the PvE world is simply beyond the scope of any development, aside from a few gimmicky elections or so forth. You are never going to be the only person to kill that boss, they simply cost too much to develop to have this kind of thing be exclusive to each player.
Maybe when AI evolves it might become a reality, but anything overly scripted is never going to be unique or world changing. Honestly I think GW2 was going in the right direction with dynamic events, but they needed to make the zone events easier to fail and actually have much longer cooldowns. When the same army is invading every hour it doesn't feel like you've acoomplished anything, even though following the events around the zone is cool.
"For more than a year, free-to-play MMO Guild Wars 2"
Why do people always get this wrong? It's buy-to-play., just like TSW is b2p. EQ2 is f2p. Rift is f2p. Swtor is f2p.
As for the "most updated mmo", well, sort of. The quality of it isn't so great though, especially when most of it was temporary or holiday events.
As if the quality of content is connected with how long it is available.
The Mad King's Tower is an awesome jumping puzzle that returns every year.
Southsun is an area with an interesting jumping puzzle and tough enemies.
The Queen's Gauntlet was a cool player vs boss (or mobs) with different mechanics.
The Bazaar of the Four winds jumping achievement was quite good.
Tequatl revamp created a tough open world boss.
The Tower of Nightmares is also a tough place where groups are required for survival.
Fractals are decent dungeons.
Some of the mini games, like southsun survival or the aspect arena, are quite good and available.
There are also a few open world mini dungeons that were added after release and are interesting.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I agree with pretty much everything said except two things:
"Aside from time constraints, another issue with the temporary content is its close ties to the game's gem store."
The gem store stuff might be thematically linked to the Living Story, but that's all cosmetic items, like skins, so nothing that's needed in game? Not sure how exactly this is a negative?
I also haven't really noticed "slip shod" content. Yes, there are a few bugs and exploits that typically get hot fixed the same day. If you think the LS is boring, fine, but that's not what "slip shod" means.
Most updated MMO in the world huh?
Asheron's Call 1 has had monthly updates for over 14 years. So even at bi-weekly updates that means GW2 has to run for 7 years just to hit that number, at which point Asheron's Call will have added monthly updates while they were catching up...
So yeah, not anywhere in the ballpark of the most updated MMO in the world.
You could try most frequently updated if you really wanted to try to make it something, but it still isn't that impressive because it isn't a new concept. Again, one of the original MMOs, AC, decided to do monthly updates from the start. It took another company a good 13 years to decide to try regular updates.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Having lots of small updates =/= more the a big update. Its about WHAT is added. There is no difference say if I needed to paint my car blue in a month. If I were to put a dab of paint every day on my car every day till the end of the month, or if I were to do it all on the very last day, its the same amount of work just how its delivered is different.
Though its quite entertaining seeing that one suck up article there linked which a lot of the 'points' I call bogus on. XD
I understand how they are pitching the game is different. They aren't going for 'grindy content' (well... raids and stuff, the game for certain IS grindy if your not spending Real money on currency in the game or for cosmetics which they push a lot). They need to balance out frequent updates while having actually big content updates to make players feel as if they are doing something. PvE is often about progression. Sure, you don't NEED an old school MMo style were gear was 70% of a players ability to do things, but you could certainly have content that you 'progress' through still providing challenge and having a story.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should focus on the story like it was in the personal story (which ranged from "Mildly Entertaining" to cringe worthy terrible) but they could learn from their mistakes and really learn to tell a story in a much more subtle fashion.
Guild Wars 2 as the "most updated MMO in the world" - Wrong
Even Runescape gets updates more often.
I think the point was a bunch of jumping puzzles and once a year content isn't really content to begin with. Same with mini games. You can only play so many rounds of mini games and Mario style jump puzzles before you start craving some real meat and potatoes. The biggest problem being that they can't really add any true meat to the game because they have backed themselves into a corner with no progression, no trinity, no options. Most other MMO's already have these timed events every year, so I don't really consider those "content updates".
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.