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Character Progression: Be Who You Want to Be

ColdrenColdren Nowhereville, TNPosts: 456Member Uncommon

New video on Youtube from ZOS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU07krDtruw

Enjoy! I'm sure it will be on the news section soon. Good video.

 

«13

Comments

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Nice video, however nothing new

    - every class can when specced for it fill every role..

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

     

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    It's too bad they went that rout, in a game they put in the option to be " anything "

    Most people don't want gimp specs in their "end game" groups. So unless "best" really just means more options to spec into and not actually better in game I doubt it will really work.

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,560Member Uncommon
    I love the ultimate abilities, nova is awsome AoE.
  • GendarkGendark New York, NYPosts: 89Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    This is false... Maybe they seem to be the best, because of the name and the first impresions that people make when they see 4 clases and think of warrior/mage/rogue/healer, but nothing else.

    If you can read the spells, every class got mitigation and healing stuff, you can see full of posibilities here, even sorcerers have some nice mitigation and self heals spells, and dragon knights imho will be the best for a fire mage dps. We will have to wait and see what happens at release and there will always be the cookie cutter class, but there is so much room for testing setups to just asume that DKs will be the best tanks (as said i can easly imagine sorcerers as very good tanks with the right setup )

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
     

    It's too bad they went that rout, in a game they put in the option to be " anything "

    Most people don't want gimp specs in their "end game" groups. So unless "best" really just means more options to spec into and not actually better in game I doubt it will really work.

     

    I like that system actually. My DPS mage shouldn't be able to be just as good a healer as someone who's concentrated on healing from the beginning of the game, that would be not rewarding that other person for their efforts. On the other hand it's nice to know that I can concentrate on DPS but still get some emergency healing abilities for a pinch.

    Specialists should always be better at something than generalists though. Otherwise there is no point in specializing.

     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gendark
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    This is false... Maybe they seem to be the best, because of the name and the first impresions that people make when they see 4 clases and think of warrior/mage/rogue/healer, but nothing else.

    If you can read the spells, every class got mitigation and healing stuff, you can see full of posibilities here, even sorcerers have some nice mitigation and self heals spells, and dragon knights imho will be the best for a fire mage dps. We will have to wait and see what happens at release and there will always be the cookie cutter class, but there is so much room for testing setups to just asume that DKs will be the best tanks (as said i can easly imagine sorcerers as very good tanks with the right setup )

    Self mitigation and selfhealing dont have nothing to do with healing...  The templar is the only clas that has both active healing and passive abbities that improve healing, where other classes only get the stuff from the healing staff... Maybe sorcerers might become good healers as they have abbilities to help regen power.

     

    same goes for dragon knights, they are the only class with native agro passives...

     

    they should have let classes out of the game entirely... And shoulda have added the 12 claastrees available for everyone..  

     

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Gendark
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    This is false... Maybe they seem to be the best, because of the name and the first impresions that people make when they see 4 clases and think of warrior/mage/rogue/healer, but nothing else.

    If you can read the spells, every class got mitigation and healing stuff, you can see full of posibilities here, even sorcerers have some nice mitigation and self heals spells, and dragon knights imho will be the best for a fire mage dps. We will have to wait and see what happens at release and there will always be the cookie cutter class, but there is so much room for testing setups to just asume that DKs will be the best tanks (as said i can easly imagine sorcerers as very good tanks with the right setup )

    Self mitigation and selfhealing dont have nothing to do with healing...  The templar is the only clas that has both active healing and passive abbities that improve healing, where other classes only get the stuff from the healing staff... Maybe sorcerers might become good healers as they have abbilities to help regen power.

    You are right.

     

    same goes for dragon knights, they are the only class with native agro passives...

    Again you are right.

     

    they should have let classes out of the game entirely... And shoulda have added the 12 claastrees available for everyone..  

     

     For once i agree with you.

  • PigglesworthPigglesworth Delaware, OHPosts: 257Member Uncommon
    The classes are there for beginners who need some guidance. Not everyone is an expert MMO player. Especially with a lot of console players joining that have never played an MMO before.

    @PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

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  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon

    This is one area of ESO where someone would have e to dig deep to find fault.

     

    Can't wait to tinker with character abilities and choosing where to put my points, which way to morph, which ultimate to slot, etc.

     

    Unlike other "train everything" MMOs, the slotted ability limit and powered-up passives pretty well guarantees many unique builds... or rather, couple of builds since you can hot-swap to an alternate set.

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Nice video, however nothing new

    - every class can when specced for it fill every role..

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    I have a feeling you're right.  I'm not sure why they have the classes if they were going for a more open ended approach without forcing roles, but I'm not really familiar with what higher level builds will look like to see if the class adds a certain 'flavor' to the character or if it makes it more effective for a particular role.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Nice video, however nothing new

    - every class can when specced for it fill every role..

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    I have a feeling you're right.  I'm not sure why they have the classes if they were going for a more open ended approach without forcing roles, but I'm not really familiar with what higher level builds will look like to see if the class adds a certain 'flavor' to the character or if it makes it more effective for a particular role.

    It doesn't add anything but a wall to stop true freedom in terms of character progression. The class system is identical to GW2. You are a class, but you can use different weapons (with the exception of armor in ESO being freedom) that gives different powers. But you still always have your class powers.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

    You are not forced intoo a class, but for ed intoo a build..

     

    there will be no switching around builds, as you cant respec your choices, you can tune your build by switching weapons and skills, however you will allways have the same passives and  stats..  

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

    You are not forced intoo a class, but for ed intoo a build..

     

    there will be no switching around builds, as you cant respec your choices, you can tune your build by switching weapons and skills, however you will allways have the same passives and  stats..  

    You have to choose a class. There are class skills that you cannot change (though you may train or not train them you see fit) and class skills from other classes you can never train. That is indeed a class. Granted, the class only makes up a portion of the potential builds possible, but they are set.

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

    You are not forced intoo a class, but for ed intoo a build..

     

    there will be no switching around builds, as you cant respec your choices, you can tune your build by switching weapons and skills, however you will allways have the same passives and  stats..  

    It is a class. What do you mean bro? Literally you have four selection choices.

    Paladin, Warrior, Rogue, Mage. You pick one and from there can select the weapons, armor, and some other general skills they pick. The only difference this character progression has from every other MMO of the past generation is the ability to use any weapon as well as any armor.

    A true character progression is what Mortal Online has. You literally pick everything your character does and is. That is what Elder Scrolls has always been. You can become anything you want, but they have killed this in this game. 

  • TatercakeTatercake Auburn, WAPosts: 279Member
    na wnot true from what i played  i could tank as anyclass and theres not a lot  of skills   very disapointed in this game tired of all the fake pub they are throwing out there to get us all hyped up about this dont be deceved
  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Gendark
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    - only one class can be the best in a certain role..  I.e. Dragon knights will be the best tanks and templars the best healers.

    This is false... Maybe they seem to be the best, because of the name and the first impresions that people make when they see 4 clases and think of warrior/mage/rogue/healer, but nothing else.

    If you can read the spells, every class got mitigation and healing stuff, you can see full of posibilities here, even sorcerers have some nice mitigation and self heals spells, and dragon knights imho will be the best for a fire mage dps. We will have to wait and see what happens at release and there will always be the cookie cutter class, but there is so much room for testing setups to just asume that DKs will be the best tanks (as said i can easly imagine sorcerers as very good tanks with the right setup )

    Self mitigation and selfhealing dont have nothing to do with healing...  The templar is the only clas that has both active healing and passive abbities that improve healing, where other classes only get the stuff from the healing staff... Maybe sorcerers might become good healers as they have abbilities to help regen power.

     

    same goes for dragon knights, they are the only class with native agro passives...

     

    they should have let classes out of the game entirely... And shoulda have added the 12 claastrees available for everyone..  

     

     

    The only classes that have native passives and abilities, yes. But there will be other healing trees and other tank trees in the game. And since you only have a limited amount of abilities to slot it means that the amount of active tank and healing abilities will be pretty useless. And don't forget that a tanking Templar might be very useful thanks to his healing. He would be more likely to survive for longer since he could still spec Sword and Board plus Heavy Armour.

    And that's just from what we know now. They might be adding in a new skill line called restoration that isn't leveled up by using the restoration staff.

     

    Personally I like that they have classes. Just like back in the good old days before Skyrim. It's nice to have unique abilities to your class. Not to mention that Nightblades for example could quite possibly be great tanks by following the Siphoning tree and Sword and Board tree.

     

    Siphoning:

    • [Ultimate] Soul Shred – Deals PBAoE damage and stuns nearby enemies. Initiates the Leeching Strike synergy.
    • [Active] Strife – Places a DoT on your target which also heals you for the duration.
    • [Active] Agony – Stuns and DoTs an enemy for a long duration, but the effect is broken by any other damage.
    • [Active] Cripple - Places a DoT on an enemy which gradually decreases its movement speed, transferring an equal speed bonus to the Nightblade.
    • [Active] Siphoning Strikes – Sacrifice a portion of your own weapon damage in to restore a portion of your Magicka and Stamina with every hit.
    • [Active] Drain Power – Debuff the attack power of nearby enemies, transferring a portion of that power to the Nightblade for each affected enemy.
    Sword and Board:
     
    • [Active] Puncture - Deals damage, reduces target Armor, and applies Taunt for 15 seconds.
    • [Active] Low Slash - Deals damage, applies Snare, and debuffs target weapon damage.
    • [Active] Defensive Posture - Reflects the next spell projectile back to the attacker. While slotted, increases the effectiveness of block, and reduces the Stamina cost of blocking.
    • [Active] Shield Charge - Charge to a target, stunning it on impact.
    • [Active] Power Bash – Deal damage and Disorient target.
     

    image
  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

    You are not forced intoo a class, but for ed intoo a build..

     

    there will be no switching around builds, as you cant respec your choices, you can tune your build by switching weapons and skills, however you will allways have the same passives and  stats..  

    It is a class. What do you mean bro? Literally you have four selection choices.

    Paladin, Warrior, Rogue, Mage. You pick one and from there can select the weapons, armor, and some other general skills they pick. The only difference this character progression has from every other MMO of the past generation is the ability to use any weapon as well as any armor.

    A true character progression is what Mortal Online has. You literally pick everything your character does and is. That is what Elder Scrolls has always been. You can become anything you want, but they have killed this in this game. 

    I don't remember being able to pick the Argonians racial as a Bosmer in Elder Scrolls. Do you?

     

    Point is, you can pick EVERYTHING except for the 3 starter skill lines you get from your class that are unique to your class. And if you think that you will absolutely need all of those skills you are silly. You can't even them in your hotbar. This isn't WoW.

     

    So, pick what class you are most inclined to play between the Sorcerer, the Templar, the Dragonknight and the Nightblade. Do you really think that you will need those other 9 starter skill lines? Because you can't even fit all of those into your hotbar. And most passives will be useless to you. Chances are that most people just want a single skill line from a single class. The rest of the skill lines in the game are available to everyone.

    image
  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member

    Good points, asrlohz. I was thinking something similar.

    One thing to take into account is something that will hugely affect gameplay: active class skills use Magicka while Weapon and Armor skills use Stamina.  I am sure I don't need to elaborate why that is a very important thing to consider when planning builds, especially when looking at Armor type.

    So that means that whether Racial and Guild skills use Magicka, Stamina, or a combination of the two is an important thing to know. 

    As it stands, Heavy Armor users are going to face a lot more resource management in the area of class skills and Weapon Skills, which is actually awesome mechanically. 

    Interesting stuff.

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by PerfArt

    Good points, asrlohz. I was thinking something similar.

    One thing to take into account is something that will hugely affect gameplay: active class skills use Magicka while Weapon and Armor skills use Stamina.  I am sure I don't need to elaborate why that is a very important thing to consider when planning builds, especially when looking at Armor type.

    So that means that whether Racial and Guild skills use Magicka, Stamina, or a combination of the two is an important thing to know. 

    As it stands, Heavy Armor users are going to face a lot more resource management in the area of class skills and Weapon Skills, which is actually awesome mechanically. 

    Interesting stuff.

    Exactly! Having a unique class to some extent is what puts the RP into MMO _ _ G. I want people to start trying to work out cookiecutter builds, only to have them countered by some guy who just built around their build. Specialization and niche builds will matter.

     

    Just like in Hearthstone you can play against a mage and know what possible cards she might have that are unique to her class, but that mage could still be playing a creature heavy Murloc deck and absolutely trample you.

    And in LoL how you can play as a support character and still build around damage, completely taking the enemies by surprise.

     

    And same goes for the armour design for Bosmers. You can wear leather armour but it can still be a Heavy leather armour because Bosmers rarely use plating or anything that isn't either bone or hides. Or you could be an orc disguised in Elven armour, deceiving those whom just glance at you from afar. I think this asymmetrical design will help adding depth into the game without making it completely impossible to balance or design.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PerfArt
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Celusios

    The only complaint I have ever had about this game for an Elder Scrolls game is the inability for what this video says you can do. You can't be the character you want to be. Much like a plethora of other MMO's you are forced into a class, sure this one is a "soft" class... but none the less a class.

     

    Elder Scrolls was always fun because you had the ability to truly chose what you wanted to be. In this one, you pick between a rogue, a mage, a paladin, or a warrior.

    You are not forced intoo a class, but for ed intoo a build..

     

    there will be no switching around builds, as you cant respec your choices, you can tune your build by switching weapons and skills, however you will allways have the same passives and  stats..  

    You have to choose a class. There are class skills that you cannot change (though you may train or not train them you see fit) and class skills from other classes you can never train. That is indeed a class. Granted, the class only makes up a portion of the potential builds possible, but they are set.

    You are right, you have to choose a class, but that is only a part of your build...  It gives you 3 trees... And then there is 1 tree from your race, add to that fighters, mages( and later on thieves and dark brotherhood ) trees..  Vampire, Werewolf trees and there is more then enough things to spend slillpoints on outside of your specific class ...

    i think crafting, pvp, and emperor skill trees stand on their own..

    weapon fighting and armor skilltrees are a different system too, they improve as you use your weapons and armor... Dont require skillpoints to improve the tree, but it might cost skillpoints to improve single skills in those trees..

     

    all in all there are so many buildingblocks that classchoice might not be so important after all, we will have to see...  But since you can not respec  you are stuck with a single build, and since skillpoints are not infinite, people may end up with only spending points in the skills they want...   On top of that skills grow in power when they are placed on your hotbar... 

     

    So if you never have used a flamestrike on your hotbar, then it could be a very weak strike to begin with, and it moght take days or weeks of training to get it on par with other skills..

     

     

    the system is so much different from gw2 where you can keep mixing and matching ultimately, this is a good thing for my  character immersion, while the abbility to switch all over the place seemed like fun, it turns a virtual world into a game more then intoo an immersive experience..

     

    keep in mind that for the true min maxers the system will be a pain,  as it will not tollerate mistakes and changes of insight... And every spec or build change might require you to relevel an alt, unless over time they add mechanics that allow you to slowly unlearn skills ( your  xp goes to unlearning a skill instead of leveling)  but they will not be in at release..

     

    i can allready see the whining all over after 3 months of gaming.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by PerfArt
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
     

    You have to choose a class. There are class skills that you cannot change (though you may train or not train them you see fit) and class skills from other classes you can never train. That is indeed a class. Granted, the class only makes up a portion of the potential builds possible, but they are set.

    You are right, you have to choose a class, but that is only a part of your build...  It gives you 3 trees... And then there is 1 tree from your race, add to that fighters, mages( and later on thieves and dark brotherhood ) trees..  Vampire, Werewolf trees and there is more then enough things to spend slillpoints on outside of your specific class ...

    i think crafting, pvp, and emperor skill trees stand on their own..

    weapon fighting and armor skilltrees are a different system too, they improve as you use your weapons and armor... Dont require skillpoints to improve the tree, but it might cost skillpoints to improve single skills in those trees..

    all in all there are so many buildingblocks that classchoice might not be so important after all, we will have to see...  But since you can not respec  you are stuck with a single build, and since skillpoints are not infinite, people may end up with only spending points in the skills they want...   On top of that skills grow in power when they are placed on your hotbar... 

    So if you never have used a flamestrike on your hotbar, then it could be a very weak strike to begin with, and it moght take days or weeks of training to get it on par with other skills..

    the system is so much different from gw2 where you can keep mixing and matching ultimately, this is a good thing for my  character immersion, while the abbility to switch all over the place seemed like fun, it turns a virtual world into a game more then intoo an immersive experience..

    keep in mind that for the true min maxers the system will be a pain,  as it will not tollerate mistakes and changes of insight... And every spec or build change might require you to relevel an alt, unless over time they add mechanics that allow you to slowly unlearn skills ( your  xp goes to unlearning a skill instead of leveling)  but they will not be in at release..

     

    i can allready see the whining all over after 3 months of gaming.

    I'm glad you came around. Point is that min/maxing won't work in TES:O. Sure, you can min/max leveling and damage but because of the asymmetrical nature of the game it will be really hard not to get countered.

     

    If you love min/maxing through out PvE content, the skills shouldn't actually matter to you. It's only in PvE were the "Perfect Build" would matter, and as I've said. That build will be countered by an argonian Nightblade that went pure Nightblade and used his Histskin ability against you. There are just too many skill lines and too little actionbars to make a mathematically and universally perfect build.

     

    (By the way, there will be respeccing in the game. And there will be enough skillpoints to get just about all skills available. Just farm some skyshards)

    image
  • VonatarVonatar PraguePosts: 672Member Uncommon

    I don't think this aspect of TESO gets enough credit. People focus on "class choice" and think it means being forced into a role. That is completely untrue of TESO.

     

    Because of the flexibility, people will need to think outside the box when making their character. Take for example Matt Firor's favourite build of a dark magic specced sorceror with a bow. Is this a mage because it uses the sorceror class? No, it's more of a arcane ranger, using the cc abilities of the dark magic tree to support ranged combat in terms of stuns and roots. These kinds of builds are possible across all classes and the fun of character progression is going to be working out what you like, what works and actually playing the game to earn the points for your build.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,619Member Uncommon
    No blacksmith leveling?

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • xanthmetisxanthmetis Racine, WIPosts: 135Member

    i think this system will shine in pvp where different tactics can be used to  give u an advantage... ie a nightblade healer that gets past a defense or doesnt need many peels... or just the class combinations that would not get with "normal or expected class/builds" that represent the most powerful or easiest things that work in pve...  i noticed in gw2 for example some of toughest teams were that played things that werent in the current meta but worked extremely well together if played by talented players... you get things you werent always prepared for... looks like a fun game to bad im a mouse clicker hehe....

    image
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