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Glad ESO will be Subscription model

ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.
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Comments

  • goboygogoboygo Posts: 792Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,203Member Uncommon
    Pft, I'll have to to disagree with you on this one.  I just love playing games where the devs spend all their time working on new things for the cash shop rather than adding real content.
  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    A lot of people are glad about that. The question is: are enough people going to sub up month 2? If not, then F2P in 6 months. Is this game going to be able to hold onto enough subs considering that it isn't planning any raids and is mostly focused around GW2 style WvW PvP with 4 man dungeons at endgame?

     

    I can't wait to see what happens with this one. To me though, it doesn't look like it's planning to offer enough for long term subscribers. But then there could be some unannounced stuff that no one knows about.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

    Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

    It would be rather idiotic on their part to launch with one now.  They did after all come out to correct a false publication that they were going to have one, after a translation error (That's their story anyway).

    As for comparing a sub price in the same vein as an in your face piecemeal alternative, I'll take paying that 15 if I like the game enough any day.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by goboygo
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

    Next time I play a f2p im gonna make a character named "Not Sure" as a tribute to that movie lol

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Originally posted by goboygo
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

    Next time I play a f2p im gonna make a character named "Not Sure" as a tribute to that movie lol

    LMAO

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Yep sounds about right.
  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    I am really interested in knowing which game you possibly played where you need to buy access to regions. Or even a game which forcefully pops up a window telling the deals of the day as soon as you login. You actually sound like you have never played a F2P MMO.

    And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

    image
  • Entropy14Entropy14 Edmonton, ABPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    I agree of all the AAA MMO's coming out , I think this one is going to bomb the hardest, the combat and the world looks sooo boring. Sadly the more I see of this game the worse it gets.
  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member
    Originally posted by skyline385

    And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

    I do not believe you speak for the majority, and neither do I, but your statement is false.  We cannot go further with this due to the NDA though...

    @OP, I agree with the sub model as well.  I have been playing mmo's before we even had RIP graphics on BBS services.  I have to say, that in general, I have experienced better communities in subscription mmo's, than in f2p mmo's.  I have also experienced less 'nickel and diming' from the sub model.  I prefer to pay a set amount for total access than this al a carte garbage that attempts to lure you into spending more or suffer a grind.  There are always exceptions to this, but these are my thoughts on this in general. 

    I believe there is some psychology to a game that has a monthly fee that adds value compared to one that anyone can play on, which has no value to some.  It reminds me of a child.  If they work to earn something, they tend to appreciate and care for it more.  If it is just given to them, then they tend to not care for it as much.  You can go do the research on perceived value and behavior in the marketplace that supports my beliefs on this.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    The fact they will milk people before going FTP is insulting to customers. Some are just not intelligent enough to see it.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by goboygo
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

    Giving money over to a sub par service is in no way intelligent regardless of the way you pay. Prefering a subscription model does not make you less of an idiot than any other sucker who pays for these repetitive games. p2p is as much p2w as f2p is. If you don't pay every month you can't win.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,559Member Uncommon

    Payment model is not indicative of the quality of a game - those days are long gone.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

    Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

    Subscription means a cash shop is not necessary. Some MMOs add them on out of pure greed (or perhaps because subs are somehow not covering the expenses), but that is a more recent thing that came about only since people started embracing the idea of paying extra money for items in a game you're already paying to play. I don't agree with it, either, but hey.. if people weren't so eager to buy the stuff, they probably wouldn't bother selling it.

    At the very least, a sub-based MMO adding a cash shop can at least limit it to truly cosmetic, non-game affecting things and can avoid the draw of adding things are ever more compulsory. Unlike a F2P MMO, their  ability to stay in business doesn't depend on people spending as much in the cash shop as they can, as often as they can. They have a sub fee as their primary revenue source, and, so, can be more selective in what they sell.

    Your second statement is flawed because you can't get the same experience elsewhere. Each MMO is its own experience, in its own world, its own setting, its own story, classes, races, etc. There's similarities in that they're all MMOs, but in many cases that's where it ends. Hey... Cola is Cola. Yet there are myriad different brands, and people still choose one brand as a favorite over all others. Why do you think that is? Because despite being similar, they're not the same. Same concept here.

    You're not going to find an Elder Scrolls MMO, or anything like it, anywhere else, free or otherwise. Unless you can point me to one? Zenimax may have a copyright case on their hands if there is one.

    Yes, a subscription-based MMO makes its money on the concept of providing a wide-open game where progress is made and the entire game is experienced through playing the game (rather than spending money), and making it enjoyable enough for people to want to stick around and continue playing month after month. There's no need to think about nickel and diming, or impulse spending more money in a cash shop or not. Everything is obtained by playing the game.

    How much or how little money someone has outside the game means nothing inside the game because everyone has the same requirements to get what they want. Whether something is "just vanity" or not isn't an issue because it's obtained in-game, by playing. Whether a means of travel is faster than another isn't such an issue because everyone can obtain it in the same way, by playing. Whether a piece of gear makes a character more powerful isn't an issue because everyone can obtain it in the same way, by completing the same content. P2P MMOs are built around this crazy concept of actually playing your way through the content, not buying your way through it. 

    Ultimately, it's just like any other subscription service people will happily pay for and never think twice about it, so long as it's worth it to them. And no matter how much you play, you will never spend more than $15 a month (or whatever the sub fee is for a given game), except for the occasional expansion.

    Further, the idea that it seems "offensive" to you that you'd have to pay $15, or any amount, to engage in activity produced by another entity (be it a company or anyone else) isn't a strike against them for charging it. The concept of products and services being offered in exchange for money isn't some strange, alien concept. Subscriptions for a service are not some strange alien concept. They're quite standard and quite normal.

    So, that final remark of yours about "making you pay $15 to try the game again" is both disingenuous and indicative of an entitled, "I shouldn't have to pay for something I want" mentality. But hey, you're not alone. There's a lot of  people floating around these days who've been misled into believing they're entitled to have anything they want for free, simply because they want it.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

    I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    subscription, with no item shop is the way to go for MMO´s..  and several expansion packs over time

     

    It gives developers a steady income..

    It gives players controll over their billing..

     

    And gameplay wise... everything need in game is supported by the game and the econnomy and the crafting community..

     

     

    Best system works around both ways, and if you can not miss $12 a month, you probably would be better off finding a 2nd job instead of playing games.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

    I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

    Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

    I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

    Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

    Fair enough, I'm not anti cash-shop it's just not my preference.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    [mod edit]

    Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

    I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

    Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

    No, you're not paying for "the few that do". That is such ridiculous logic.

    You're paying for access to the entire game. Everything. Just as everyone else is. 

    You're not paying more than them. Whether others do everything in the game, or hardly anything in the game, your sub fee doesn't change, and - here's the key part - neither does theirs. They are paying their own sub fee, just like you, just like everyone else. No one is paying for anyone else.

    Now, ironically... that's exactly what happens in F2P/Cash Shop MMOs. The spenders literally keep the ship afloat so the non-spenders can enjoy the party for free. So, yeah... Though somehow I don't think you'll have a problem with it in that setting.

    What you are paying for in P2P MMOs is 24/7 access to everything and anything you might feel like doing. It's there if you want to. 

    It's no different than paying for cable service. Do you watch every single channel? No? Does that mean you're paying for others to watch it? Of course not, they're paying their own subscription fee.

    It's like a magazine or newspaper subscription. Many people only read a few sections and that's it. Does that mean people are paying for sections of the paper they don't read, so others can? No, of course not. Everyone's paying their own subscription fee and getting access to all the same content.

    The examples go on and on.

    It's hysterical - and yet, sad - seeing all the various ways people try to spin subscriptions to make them sound like they're somehow these evil things, or like their developers are pulling some dirty trick on the players. It couldn't be farther from the truth. It's as plain and straight-forward a deal as you can have. You pay $15 a month (or whatever), you get full access to the game's servers, including all patches, events, customer support and content updates short of major expansions (and some P2P MMOs even include that). You feel you no longer want to play the game, or that it's no longer worth  your monthly sub, you simply cancel and you will no longer be charged. While you're subbed, everything in the game is available to you, along with the content associated with it.  The developer provides the content and 24/7 access to it, you pay a flat fee, you get access to all of it. Simple, straight-forward, no hidden details or strings attached.

    Now, you want to talk about a revenue model mired in deceit, exploitation of human psychology, social pressures and behaviors, and so forth? Go do some research on the F2P/Cash Shop system. That's a true "masterpiece" in underhanded tactics, ulterior motives and disingenuous claims.  I mean, let's just start at the start.. They market themselves as "free", yet set up the entire system with the full intent, and expectation, that people will actually spend more money, more often.

    I can agree that if you absolutely only ever want access to specific content - and that's it - that being able to pay for it piece-meal isn't a bad way to go (though piece meal pretty much always ends up costing more than paying for everything at once - in any context, MMO or otherwise). However, it still wouldn't mean that, with subs, you're "paying for the few that do", any more than those people are paying for you to do content that you like, which they have no interest in. All the content is equally available to all of you.

  • HeraseHerase LondonPosts: 371Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

    I would disagree, every time i play a F2p game i never feel a sense of community, most people just hop from game to game because they have no reason to commit and put time into the game. tbh i have the same feeling everytime i play a F2p game, i have like 6+ on my desktop, but never play them very often because i don't feel commited to the game. From what iv'e seen aswell with F2p games, is your more likely to spend shit load more in a month than you would paying £8.99 a month;

    .Extra toon slots

    .Bank slots

    .Skill repsec

    .Gold cap

    .Auction house cap

    .Toon customization 

    .Vanity items

    .Exp boost

    .Crafting boost

    .ETC..

    Not everyone payd, but a lot do or the game would die. I rather fork over £8.99 than spend around £20 to use basic functions or a few pounds each time to stay competitive, also i know the money i spend all goes towards content than more items on the shop.

     

     

     

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by cura
     

    If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

    Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

    Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by cura
     

    If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

    Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

    Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

    What's the difference really? :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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