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Meaningful PVP?

Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member

Not an attack guys but I am looking at some of the new games coming out and this caught my eye due to having a pvp server for those of us that enjoy full world pvp.

The concern I have and question is what penatly do you suffer for losing in pvp? I realize that unfortunately this is not a drop all your loot when you die like UO, darkfall etc but if there is no penalty and reward for pvp then why even do it?

Will this be another "die and wait a few seconds to get back into battle, no harm done" or will there be some form of real loss and gain making it meaningful pvp?

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Comments

  • DaessarDaessar Chino, CAPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by Romulan78

    Not an attack guys but I am looking at some of the new games coming out and this caught my eye due to having a pvp server for those of us that enjoy full world pvp.

    The concern I have and question is what penatly do you suffer for losing in pvp? I realize that unfortunately this is not a drop all your loot when you die like UO, darkfall etc but if there is no penalty and reward for pvp then why even do it?

    Will this be another "die and wait a few seconds to get back into battle, no harm done" or will there be some form of real loss and gain making it meaningful pvp?

     

    This is another one of those "too vague" posts, you gave an example of what it wont be ( drop all your loot ), but you didn't give an example of the types of "meaningfull losses and gains" that you would be happy about. Just tossing out the word meaningful and expecting everyone to know exactly what you want from that, is not realistic.

    You specifically pointed to open world Pvp, in the open world when you die, there is gear deterioration so you will need to repair, and alternatively you can rez on the spot once every 30min, which will cost you a gold fee and a short rez sickness.

    There are no open world pvp objectives at launch, and there are no "rewards", although they have yet to say if there will be something like "honor points" in Wow. Now for battlegrounds, and warplots, I imagine it will be the standard rez at graveyard and run back to battle, so I dont believe there will be big penalties for those, and the rewards will be standard pvp currency.

  • itsTortitsTort San Diego, CAPosts: 128Member
    Not too sure what you mean by 'meaningful pvp'. I'm sure it will be like every other MMO that has PvP though. The meaning for PvP will likely be to let the player have fun, while they are not doing PvE.
  • renstarensta Bat-YamPosts: 275Member Uncommon

    OMG there will be an open world pvp server? suddenly I am once again interested :)  

    I wonder how will a class like an explorer function in a pvp server? 

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    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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  • Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member

    Just to clarify what is meant by meaninful pvp:

    Consequences for winning or losing, you lose you feel it, similar to eve where you lose your ship, or UO where you get your body looted and lose items in your possesion, I cant stand games where you lose and you are back in the battle with no lose whatsover.

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    Marksman/Bladedancer/Saboteur
  • EinsamWulfEinsamWulf San Diego, CAPosts: 69Member
    I can't say for sure but I am unaware of any heavy consequences to the player from death. Perhaps suffering a defeat in Warplot PvP could be costly due to loosing bosses captured from end game raids and buildings that had to be paid for. I have no idea of this is true so I'm just speculating.

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  • SinsaiSinsai Reno, NVPosts: 236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rensta

    OMG there will be an open world pvp server? suddenly I am once again interested :)  

    I wonder how will a class like an explorer function in a pvp server? 

    Explorer isn't a Class, it's a Path that can be part of any Class.

    Paths are Play Styles you choose and you gain rewards/specific quests/items for them.

    Here's a link that better explains it:

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/paths/

    image

  • GlacianNexGlacianNex Boston, MAPosts: 598Member Uncommon

    Based on my open world pvp play at PAX it is pretty much wait for 15 seconds and restart at the town. 

    I can't see any type of real penalty where you can be killing a monster and then all of the sudden you get jumped by 3 players (no choice, no way to escape, no way to win situation). What you want is just not main stream and in most cases people will get pissed off. 

    WildStar is really aiming at a main stream MMO gamer - if you want something exquisite like full loot on death, permadeath, heavy loss penelity this is not it. That said PvP in this is REALLY REALY fun, fights last a decent amount of time. Some open world 1 v 1 PvP fights took 2 - 4 minutes to finish yet they feel very fast paced and active.

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by Romulan78

    Just to clarify what is meant by meaninful pvp:

    Consequences for winning or losing, you lose you feel it, similar to eve where you lose your ship, or UO where you get your body looted and lose items in your possesion, I cant stand games where you lose and you are back in the battle with no lose whatsover.

    By this definition, all PVP is meaningful, at least to me.  You always suffer some sort of loss, whether it is some sort of draconian rez penalty or something as minor as being pissed off because you were killed and you know some smug jerk is smiling about it and you have to run all the way back to your corpse.  If you think that PVP has to have a more harsh penalty to be truly meaningful, then you might be interested in something like Eve Online, where you can suffer some excruciating losses through PVP.  Some of the stories I have read have discouraged me from playing Eve, simply because of the potential severity of the loss.

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  • wangkomwangkom Leesburg, VAPosts: 119Member
    There is no such thing as meaningful pvp, pvp is stupid, its for people who wants to gank up on someone, then kill him and of course then its time to shit talk a bunch. this is how pvp is now adays.
  • sgelsgel HeraklionPosts: 1,087Member Uncommon

    The only game with meaningful PvP is EvE Online.

    It has ruined my enjoyment of  PVP in every other game I've tried.

    ..Cake..

  • Aison2Aison2 MarburgPosts: 624Member
    I hate this phrase "meaningful pvp". Nothing you do in a game matters.
    All you end up with is more grind as punishment and less actual pvp. Just more time wasted with something you didn't want to do in the first place.


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  • DaessarDaessar Chino, CAPosts: 204Member

    What I hate is when people whine about Pvp but then they go ahead and roll on a Pvp server, your own fault, thats what the server was designed for, if you are looking for "safe" Pvp, then shut your face and go to a PvE server and do instanced Pvp.

    Obviously there are games where a more harsh death penalty works, and all players know this going into the game, and yet they still choose to participate, even with the knowledge they may lose items or w/e upon death. I'm not sure how this would work in a big MMO, as I have not heard of one that has harsh penalties, but in the end the result comes out the same in either game, so it would be interesting to test out on a Pvp server.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Romulan78

    Just to clarify what is meant by meaninful pvp:

    Consequences for winning or losing, you lose you feel it, similar to eve where you lose your ship, or UO where you get your body looted and lose items in your possesion, I cant stand games where you lose and you are back in the battle with no lose whatsover.

    It is more likely this title will go the WOW route because at its heart there's little indication they are trying to do things much differently than a standard theme park MMO.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • BuddyDudeBuddyDude Seattle, WAPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by wangkom
    There is no such thing as meaningful pvp, pvp is stupid, its for people who wants to gank up on someone, then kill him and of course then its time to shit talk a bunch. this is how pvp is now adays.

     

    I agree, things used to be different but now it's all about teabagging and spawn camping.  MMO pvp is all about epeen and bullying. 

  • Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member

    Thanks all for the replies.

    Ya, not really interested in another themepark low consequence to pvp type game, heading back to Eve till a game comes out that is not a WOW clone.

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    Marksman/Bladedancer/Saboteur
  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 550Member Uncommon
    They need real meaningful PvP. A couple of guys show up at your house and beat the hell out of you with baseball bats, after the third time they destroy your computer, ten times they just put two in the back of your head. That's right, PvP should be meaningful, I mean if you are going to go hardcore, go full hardcore.

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by sgel

    The only game with meaningful PvP is EvE Online.

    It has ruined my enjoyment of  PVP in every other game I've tried.

    Me too. I never tried eve, but the pvp in DF is as harsh as in eve so you can count me in. I can't go back playing mmo's with no meaningful pvp.

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
    Originally posted by sgel

    The only game with meaningful PvP is EvE Online.

    It has ruined my enjoyment of  PVP in every other game I've tried.

    Me too. I never tried eve, but the pvp in DF is as harsh as in eve so you can count me in. I can't go back playing mmo's with no meaningful pvp.

    not all eve pvp is meaninful. there's tons of 'drunken frigate roams'....some pvp is fun, some pvp is necesary, some pvp is meaninful. flipping the timer on system XYZ-WT for the 6h time may be necesary but in the long run not meaningful. intercepting half of the enemy supercapital fleet in low sec...is fun and meaningful but not necesary...

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  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Romulan78

    Thanks all for the replies.

    Ya, not really interested in another themepark low consequence to pvp type game, heading back to Eve till a game comes out that is not a WOW clone.

    OP, playing games in general is not meaningful. There are no consequences which translate into real life (unless you count losing job or friends/family because of unhealthy gaming habits). So why do it?

    FPS games such as Battlefield also don't have "meaningful PVP" since there are no consequences to losing, but they are still fun, have progression and millions of people play them.

     

  • Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
    Originally posted by sgel

    The only game with meaningful PvP is EvE Online.

    It has ruined my enjoyment of  PVP in every other game I've tried.

    Me too. I never tried eve, but the pvp in DF is as harsh as in eve so you can count me in. I can't go back playing mmo's with no meaningful pvp.

    Ya agreed. Alot of the kiddies in here never experienced UO felucia where you died and lost everything in your bag and had to travel to you're body to try and retrieve some of you're posessions. 

    Unfortunately games like WOW and GW2 have turned pvp fights into a joke. You die and you just rez up and get back in the battle with barely any consequence.

    I understand that a lot of people dont like to lose, its a win win generation and even the losers get a medal nowdays but I wish some of these games would make servers not only for the carebear crowd but also for those of us not afraid of loss.

    image

    Marksman/Bladedancer/Saboteur
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    My opinion: Pvp isn't meaningful unless the game is 100% pvp driven. Wildstar is most certainly pve driven.

     

    That said pvp can be a fun side portion to the game as long as they don't tack gear grind on it. I haven't heard enough to confirm this though. I simply cannot see pvp being anything more than most themepark games offer.

    You stay sassy!

  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Romulan78
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
    Originally posted by sgel

    The only game with meaningful PvP is EvE Online.

    It has ruined my enjoyment of  PVP in every other game I've tried.

    Me too. I never tried eve, but the pvp in DF is as harsh as in eve so you can count me in. I can't go back playing mmo's with no meaningful pvp.

    Ya agreed. Alot of the kiddies in here never experienced UO felucia where you died and lost everything in your bag and had to travel to you're body to try and retrieve some of you're posessions. 

    Unfortunately games like WOW and GW2 have turned pvp fights into a joke. You die and you just rez up and get back in the battle with barely any consequence.

    I understand that a lot of people dont like to lose, its a win win generation and even the losers get a medal nowdays but I wish some of these games would make servers not only for the carebear crowd but also for those of us not afraid of loss.

    It broke my heart when I read that Raph Koster felt the next step for UO (instead of Trammel) would have been actual player cities with sieging etc. Oh my goodness what might have been.....

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by DeniZg
     

    OP, playing games in general is not meaningful. There are no consequences which translate into real life (unless you count losing job or friends/family because of unhealthy gaming habits). So why do it?

    FPS games such as Battlefield also don't have "meaningful PVP" since there are no consequences to losing, but they are still fun, have progression and millions of people play them.

     

    If you lose your ship in EVE you will have to spend time and money to replace it. That is a consequence which is real. Meaningful PVP is like gambling (except less luck based) . It's just a game but losing can still affect your life a lot if you win or lose badly. Themepark PVP is like playing poker for pennies. It can still be fun I guess but much less so because of the lack of risk/reward.

     

  • Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by DeniZg
     

    OP, playing games in general is not meaningful. There are no consequences which translate into real life (unless you count losing job or friends/family because of unhealthy gaming habits). So why do it?

    FPS games such as Battlefield also don't have "meaningful PVP" since there are no consequences to losing, but they are still fun, have progression and millions of people play them.

     

    If you lose your ship in EVE you will have to spend time and money to replace it. That is a consequence which is real. Meaningful PVP is like gambling (except less luck based) . It's just a game but losing can still affect your life a lot if you win or lose badly. Themepark PVP is like playing poker for pennies. It can still be fun I guess but much less so because of the lack of risk/reward.

     

    DUDE exactly!!! well said! Im so scared to lose my Nemesis currently I have been very careful. Nice to make decisions based on the knowledge that being careless and stupid can really hurt you in the game.

     

    image

    Marksman/Bladedancer/Saboteur
  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Romulan78

    Not an attack guys but I am looking at some of the new games coming out and this caught my eye due to having a pvp server for those of us that enjoy full world pvp.

    The concern I have and question is what penatly do you suffer for losing in pvp? I realize that unfortunately this is not a drop all your loot when you die like UO, darkfall etc but if there is no penalty and reward for pvp then why even do it?

    Will this be another "die and wait a few seconds to get back into battle, no harm done" or will there be some form of real loss and gain making it meaningful pvp?

     

    Because of the fun and challenge of facing a HUMAN opponent instead of an NPC.   That's why people PvPed in the past, and that's why most do it now days.

       Doing PvP just to have an artificial punishment inflicted onto your enemy not doing it for the right reasons, it's doing it to be a narcissistic jerk.   Doing PvP to win, to try to be a better player than them, and to obtain a certain obtainable goal...that is true PvP.


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