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World or Game?
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
How will the game feel, like an online world, or like an online game?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Not all who wander are lost...
Game.
Unless they changed things the initial reports were that "it is a themepark".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Every "game" is a game and feels like a game while sitting in front of the computer and playing it. Doesn't matter how the game is presented, you will never get "real life" from a game.
Now there will be a day night cycle and weather changes, so that is a plus. There will be weather that changes. After the starting areas, I believe the area to run around in should be big enough for exploration, that is a plus. But there will be static quests and nothing really changing all that much in the PvE world. PvP should be more dynamic with the taking/holding keeps, trying to become emperor, protecting supply lines and so forth.
But when it comes right down to playing a game, it will always be a game. Therepark vs Sandbox makes no difference IMO. You are still staring at a screen with a mouse and keyboard playing a game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
The OP visits these forums a lot and is well aware of the direction of this game so I'm not even sure what we are discussing. Is it new that this is not a sandbox? lol
The better question is will it feel like a SWTOR world or will it feel more alive and feel more like a living breathing world. We know there will be side things to do, fishing, feeding your horse, etc, we know about the swimming and day night cycles, I don't know the extent of possible inclusion of dynamic PVE events, but we do know that not all NPCs just stand there, they designed the game so that its not just like jumping from quest hub to quest hub in that you will find quests as you explore the world, I hear that they are listening to beta feedback asking for even more inclusion of the breathing feel you felt in Skyrim, they are trying to make PVP feel alive with several options including quests and dungeons for exploration in the PVP area, I hear there won't be large areas of completely worthless space, though it will have areas that are level specific, it won't hopefully feel as linear as SWTOR due to the exploration feel they have committed to...does it feel like you are in a Virtual World with an Occulus Rift headset, no not yet lol.
There Is Always Hope!
Given that the world is made up of layers of instances hiding other players from sight, and that it is phased and quest based... a game.
Not really... Those layers and instances will add to the character and story immersion.... To be honest 500 people running trough the same dungeon and standing inline to kill mobs kills my worldimmersion..
The difference between a virtuall world feeling and an online game feeling comes from a beleivable world, where players can truely interact with the world, where as in most online games game mechanics distract from the world instead of immersing people intoo the world ( like people watching the interface instead of the action in the world)
i think eso will be more of a virtual world, then a game where mechanics distract from the world
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Nor mine, good thing that's not how public dungeons work. I'm kind of sick of people pretending that it is. Why don't you actually play a game that has public dungeons before you come up with garbage like that?
And nothing kills immersion faster than a linear pre scripted sequence that magically makes all the other players vanish.
A world is immersive, a themepark ride is not.
Maybe you can enlighten us. How do public dungeons work? How did they work in AC? How did Stonehenge Barrows or Darkness Falls work in DAoC? I seem to recall a lot of very busy camping spots within each with mob tagging competition side games (and all the bitching that goes with that.) Or do you mean GW2 with magic instanced loot for all...in your own sub-instance of GW2... within its own server instance?
Apparently we haven't played as many MMOs as you since you know how open dungeons work and we don't. So... how do they?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Both are right in some way..
A open dungeon makes the World feel more alive in one sence but makes little to no sence in anoher , ea camping mobs at the bottom of the dungeon, just like you said. But with all the players running about it makes the World alive, and not scripted and directed etc, But you could ofcourse question this immersion, if the area is full of idiots running around naked the immersion will maybe be not that good even thou you got alot of "players"
phasing and instancing makes you feel more like "you" are the targeted hero , if it works as it should and not lets 30 players just "magically dissapear infront of you, then you will have all the odds and Inns with ,,-
-Hey..this willage is burnt down.!!
-.What ? No it isn't , not for me atleast ..
-Ohh !!?? How far have you been doing these quests ?
Both systems has their fair share of problems..:) And none of them will be contributing to creating a beliveable "World"
If anything like the SP series, a game. If anything like all MMO's I have played, again a game.
Both.
Hmm, sounds like we have a different opinion of world vs. game. It's a little more simple for me and I even have a recent example:
I was recently playing FF14, and although I really did enjoy the gameplay/art direction, etc. there was just something that was not clicking with me. I came to find that it was the teleporting. It was the feeling of the stitched together world. Even though you could get on a mount and go from one zone to another, it didn't FEEL like you could. Or at least not smoothly. I ended up going back to WoW. The reason is that I really enjoy that world. The areas are huge and moving from one to another feels much better then most over games I've played recently. There are also TON's of little things in the world worth taking a look at. I like with WoW that I can get on my mount, (flying or ground) and run/fly from the top of the continent to the bottom. I like that there are lil islands that I can explore, even if there isn't a reason. I just didn't get that feeling with STWOR, FF14 and yes, even GW2. GW2 was much closer, but I didn't like the lack of mounts in favor of teleporting. Again, it makes the world seem stitched together for me. Notice I said for ME - I'm sure others will feel differently. I also HATE GW2's combat. With the fury of a thousand jungle beast.
So anyway, I don't need a more action oriented game (gw2 vs. wow style combat) to consider it a "world". I just need a world that doesn't feel stitched together. I'll have to wait and look up some more info regarding TESO, hopefully it will have that world feel.
Put it this why i've played the game on numerous occasions, yes beta and GamesCom. I would say it's a game, put it up against Vanguard, DarkFall and ArcheAge then you soon realize the difference.
I've played everyone of the games i've mentioned, be in no doubt this game is themepark game rather than a world.
The game is immersive though, you know you are playing a TES game.
And the same could be said of books or movies. Of course you actually know it's not real in the back of your mind. Doesn't mean a good author can't get you lost in the world so you can suspend your disbelief and feel like it's real while you are experiencing it. Only bad authors make things so implausible that you are constantly reminded that what you are experiencing is fictional.
The problem with talking about immersive world compared to non-immersive game is that immersion is highly subjective and while some might consider it to be a believable world others won't, both are right and neither knows before they actually experienced the world on their own.
For me its a world is when its large, there are no artificial boundaries from loading zones, and it doesn't feel like you are travelling down a road throughout the game and apart from instanced dungeons I think ESO might qualify as a world to me. Although, channels could ruin that world feeling.
Public dungeons are open dungeons in TESO, you see other players and mobs respawn so players have to keep moving forward at a nice pace. Yes the game is made up of layered instances but everyone in that instance of the world can enter that open dungeon.
It's not like Vanguard where every single person on your server can enter the same open dungeon. The game is made up of loads of mini servers that are all housed on one big server, basically it's made up of channels like you get in many modern mmos.
If their are 500 people using the same channel as you then all of those 500 players could see you in a public dungeon.
Sorry but the game has artificial boundaries and it has loading as well. See those mountains over yonder, well they really look inviting but the problem is unlike Vanguard i can't climb or cross those mountains.
Definitely a Game (Excellent questions worthy of a whole article)
The thing that always really annoys me with world design is doors you can't open. If you show it but you can't get there then you have failed in portraying your game as a world.
On the subject of Instances, sure it makes sense to have some parts of a game that is regulated to achieve a standard in difficulty. but if the type of game being created needs instances then hide them! Give people a reason that only 5 people could enter there. Have a magician that teleports your party to another plane of existence or have a hole in the ground that when your party dives in simulates the loading screen into the instance. Developers need to stop looking back at those blue swirling portals and start looking forward at new ways of including instances that aren't so separate.
I don't agree. Well, I say I don't but I really do. I believe that TES:O will feel like a game, but I don't agree with that a game being themepark will automatically make it toss away all possibility of creating a virtual world that feels immersive and real.
Take WoW for example. It felt real to me since there were people standing around doing stuff, when you entered any city, village or such you'd see patrols and people who actually served a purpose. The guards kept the outskirts of citadels safe from the opposing faction and so on. The quests were "collect ten bear asses" but they set up the scene for it. Like an engineer in need of 10 more gears would be standing by some sort of contraption, occasionally beating it with a wrench. You hardly ever saw anything like that even in Skyrim. Partly due to the radiant AI, I do admit.
I'm sure everyone knows my current negative disposition to WoW, but even I must give them credit for their game to some degree.
Either way, I disagree. Sandbox does not necessarily feel real just because they give the players all the tools. Take EvE for example, I'd rather read about the crazy stories than experience them ingame because just like in real life, those stories are in reality very dramatized. Point is, I'm sure that by allowing the players to do what they can and not actively restrict them in PvP nor PvE by removing exploits that aren't necessarily malicious, the game will feel more than just like a game. Things like holding keeps against opposing armies with only a handful of guardians.
Or, if they would actually allow players to intercept arrows and bolts flying through the air to protect their healers. Shield walls and real life tactics, proved in actual wars in which men and women died. That would allow for a breathing world without being a sandbox. Ultimately, I'm afraid the game will remain a game. I believe my sense of wonder in MMO's was lost many a years ago.
Sorry about the rant, albeit, if you got this far, I doubt I'd need to apologize to you.
Why wouldn't it feel like a game that's set within the borders of a world?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.