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Why blame the kids?

Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon

I've never gotten the blame on the kids for easy and quick games.  Kids are generally the ones with the most time to play so I don't see how they could be influencing easy games.  On the other hand older adults growing into the ages with young children and full time jobs are likely going to need more casual games.  I know I went through the phase but I have a lot more time now that my kid is older.  

 

So why are so many people quick to jump on the kids for problems with the MMORPG genre?

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    When you're going to lash out irrationally at something and you have no facts to back it up....kids are an easy target. They can be kind of annoying and will often be the ones who "cheat" because they don't have the experience to know it ruins the game etc.

    So easy target, annoying... why wouldn't you blame them for ruining everything. And get them off my lawn while you're at it!

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    The reason I see most often listed is due to shorter attention spans than most adults. I read an article some months ago where a dad was exasperated that his kids just skipped all the cut scenes in a game because they were boring to the kids, but to the dad they furthered the story and plot of the game- they were something integral to the game for him while the kids just want to play.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pierth

    The reason I see most often listed is due to shorter attention spans than most adults. I read an article some months ago where a dad was exasperated that his kids just skipped all the cut scenes in a game because they were boring to the kids, but to the dad they furthered the story and plot of the game- they were something integral to the game for him while the kids just want to play.

    Haha.  Funny.  I was playing TSW yesterday (just started playing a few days ago again).  And was really enjoying the cut scenes for the first day.

    2nd day they were just hmmm

    Yesterday I was, "enough allready just let me go play"

    :)

    I can relate to the just let me go sentiment.

    I've been told I'm a bit impatient though.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXPosts: 192Member
    I guess they are a huge target market and mmo's have evolved to get their business thus the blame.  Plus every generation grows up in a different world.  We didnt have so much instant gratification when I was a kid thus I never looked for it, its not their fault its just the way the world runs nowadays.
  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Todays kids are more spoiled than the kids 20-30 years ago I'ts only natrual they want it easy in todays games aswell.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

        

        

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon

    Blaming the kids is silly - as kids are a product of our society - it starts with the family, schools, media, everything.

    So if you are blaming the kids, its because WE failed them, as we brought kids into this world and we educated them in our ways.

     

  • VeldekarVeldekar Greeneville, TNPosts: 220Member
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

        

        

    The devs could have easily NOT listened to the massive cries to casualize their games and stuck with a smaller playerbase, but alas, greed is a powerful emotion and hard to resist.

    The love of money truly is the root of all bad things in this world, including bad games...

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Veldekar
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

        

        

    The devs could have easily NOT listened to the massive cries to casualize their games and stuck with a smaller playerbase, but alas, greed is a powerful emotion and hard to resist.

    The love of money truly is the root of all bad things in this world, including bad games...

    Tell that to your shareholders. Devs don't have any power. It's the suits that tell them what to do. A dev is a developer not a business person.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

     

    It depends how you look at it. Blizzard could have chosen not to let the consumer take over their game.

    But to pick up on how you think the consumer decided where the game had to go.

    How did Blizzard came to that conclusion that their customers wanted those changes? How can they asses what millions of players want? I'm sure there were counter-whines for all type of whines posted on the forum. The game started very popular and people made in-game videos of all kinds. Action videos, musicals, stories etc. People talked about WoW constantly in bars, at work etc. People really loved the game.

    That type of fanatic behavior decreased, even though the population increased. So according to me, they made a pure strategic decision to appeal to mass instead of appealing to fans. So from that point of view, to me, Blizzard is the one to blame. Not the consumer. Consumers are and will be consumers. You can't blame them for playing their role. However Blizzard has a much bigger role in this.

  • VeldekarVeldekar Greeneville, TNPosts: 220Member
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Veldekar
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

        

        

    The devs could have easily NOT listened to the massive cries to casualize their games and stuck with a smaller playerbase, but alas, greed is a powerful emotion and hard to resist.

    The love of money truly is the root of all bad things in this world, including bad games...

    Tell that to your shareholders. Devs don't have any power. It's the suits that tell them what to do. A dev is a developer not a business person.

    Why are we splitting hairs here?

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

     

    It depends how you look at it. Blizzard could have chosen not to let the consumer take over their game.

    But to pick up on how you think the consumer decided where the game had to go.

    How did Blizzard came to that conclusion that their customers wanted those changes? How can they asses what millions of players want? I'm sure there were counter-whines for all type of whines posted on the forum. The game started very popular and people made in-game videos of all kinds. Action videos, musicals, stories etc. People talked about WoW constantly in bars, at work etc. People really loved the game.

    That type of fanatic behavior decreased, even though the population increased. So according to me, they made a pure strategic decision to appeal to mass instead of appealing to fans. So from that point of view, to me, Blizzard is the one to blame. Not the consumer. Consumers are and will be consumers. You can't blame them for playing their role. However Blizzard has a much bigger role in this.

    THey have metrics and internal polling.  IMO in many cases I think it's like having players judge if they like individual lite bright LEDS while deciding how you create whole picture.  

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    I'm sure going to sleep every night on a pillow stuffed with billion dollar bills goes a long ways to easing their guilt for disappointing you.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,461Member Uncommon

    Blizzard and Wow changed a LOT in this genre and how OTHER devs see the monetary value and design ideas.

    When Blizzard was the proud recipient of those 20 million new MMO gamer's, when internet finally hit all households at a reasonable price it changed everything.

    Those new players for the most  part was children or young teens.

    You influence the market by spending money and by millions spending it on Wow they influenced the market and how games are made.It is not even opinion it is fact,we have seen in MANY times games using the same Wow lingo like "100 man raids" or "instances" "Raid looting" ect ect.When i was MMORPGing before Wow came out,we just played and tried to help each other learn the games,NOBODY was using any of that lingo in any parties,guilds i was in.Now it is common place,ALL the games are still trying to copy the cheap Wow formula even though nobody has been able to maintain subs,really makes you wonder who is running these operations.

    Ok the last 30 games all tried it and failed,but wait i think WE can do it with our game because we have this savvy marketing scheme.

    Sadly even the LAST of the light brigade Square Enix began copying the same cheap formula or game design,just putting their own twist,naming schemes to make it appear different.

    Bottom line is that the majority of MMORPG'rs have been WOW fanatics,they think rpg=Wow,so now if any game tries something different or hey MORE realistic to the genre,tons of people start complaining.It is all that era of vanilla Wow players that started this trend,if they never supported that game,who knows how versatile and how many different ideas we might actually see.


    Samoan Diamond

  • goldtoofgoldtoof leedsPosts: 337Member
    I don't blame the kids, I blame the game devs.

    There seems to be a modern trend for telling a story at you. And yeah some games make a lot of money doing that, cod for instance.

    But there's still a market for games where you use your imagination and make your own story and set your own goals, look at the success if minecraft and skyrim, the former being very popular with the kids.

    But 90% of game devs thinks everyone has no imagination and must be told exactly what to do in games.

    This isn't just a mmo problem, although most mmos push your goals at you - grind this item set, move to the next tier dungeon etc.. its a problem with modern gaming in general.
  • stonerocksstonerocks Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3Member

    I think kids are partially to blame. It's like what was said before, they usually have the shorter attention span that they "cheat" their way to get strong.

    By kids I don't just mean kids by age but also kids by heart, the bad kind of kid by heart. Both kinds of kids...usually...not always but usually.

    Also perhaps those adult gamers who're probably gamers at a young age are becoming pros and unaware of it. That's why they rant about games being "too easy". Maybe...just maybe.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by jazz.be
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I guess they're easiest to blame.

    No consumer should be blamed for anything. If something went wrong, it's the devs or whoever is in charge for the changes that needs to be blamed.

    I blame Blizzard for dumbing down WoW, not the new players that joined during the decade.

    This is wrong. The Consumers are the ones that drive the market. Blizzard can share some of the blame for the dumbing down of WoW but these changes were brought on by the consumers constant bitching. With such hits as: 

     

        ~ "It takes way to long to level!"

        ~ "It takes way to long to find a group! FIX IT!"

        ~ "Travel Time to instance suxors! FIX NOOOWZ!"

        ~ "I want fat lootz like this guy but dont want to invest the time! GIVE ME FAT LOOOTZ NOW PLOX!"

     

    These are just some of the hits the dev team had to listen to over the years. And these complaints came from the consumers. 

     

    It depends how you look at it. Blizzard could have chosen not to let the consumer take over their game.

    But to pick up on how you think the consumer decided where the game had to go.

    How did Blizzard came to that conclusion that their customers wanted those changes? How can they asses what millions of players want? I'm sure there were counter-whines for all type of whines posted on the forum. The game started very popular and people made in-game videos of all kinds. Action videos, musicals, stories etc. People talked about WoW constantly in bars, at work etc. People really loved the game.

    That type of fanatic behavior decreased, even though the population increased. So according to me, they made a pure strategic decision to appeal to mass instead of appealing to fans. So from that point of view, to me, Blizzard is the one to blame. Not the consumer. Consumers are and will be consumers. You can't blame them for playing their role. However Blizzard has a much bigger role in this.

    So Blizzard is to blame for making changes to their game that a majority of their player base wanted...You can see the flaw in your argument right?

    Im not saying that it was the right decision but Blizzard cant take all the blame here. They can only do what they can do to keep mass people playing their game to keep the suits happy so they keep giving them money to keep making expansions for the masses so they keep spending their money on their product. Run on sentence lol. 

    The consumer is the first to blame because without their input, these changes would not occur. 

     

    Yes you can blame them. i just did. 

    image

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member

    It's a panic mode, knee-jerk response. Aspects of the activity aren't satiating their obsessive/compulsiveness and they "reach" to point out which demographic is creating the "limiting factor" (handicap?). In some cases one would say "kids", when they really mean "child minded", which really doesn't resemble the thoughts of a child but rather a depreciated value of cognition, which is brought about by their own overblown sense of self importance.

    There's a continuum of disdain, too. It can range from the polite, "Why am I not getting any help here? I'm surrounded by munchkins!", to the vulgar "This game could be really cool if retards didn't have to play it!".

    I guess take that for what it's worth. I've been guilty of it. I think most of us do it.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    I've never gotten the blame on the kids for easy and quick games.  Kids are generally the ones with the most time to play so I don't see how they could be influencing easy games.  On the other hand older adults growing into the ages with young children and full time jobs are likely going to need more casual games.  I know I went through the phase but I have a lot more time now that my kid is older.  

     

    So why are so many people quick to jump on the kids for problems with the MMORPG genre?

    Where did you get that idea?

    The "Blame" for how the MMO genre has changed and de-evolved over the years rests firmly on the shoulders of.... IMO....

    ....Some of the Players of MMOs that have demanded more casual and solo gameplay in a genre built upon challenging and multiplayer gameplay.... an insane idea from my point of view and mostly the cause of many of the quote-unquote "new and improved features" that I feel do more damage to online gaming and the Players than any amount of convenience they add... this the changes are not worth it and diminish the genre;

    ***some of the Posters on this Forum are the Players that have called for turning MMOs into online Single Player RPGs and these Posters I will gladly admit infuriate me and frustrate me to no end. For their own SELFISH REASONS they seek to change a Genre they did not Create or Appreciate. That is just plain wrong.

    ....the MMO Investors who place Profits as number one and are looking to swap out the original Customer Base(s) of MMOs for much larger Customer Bases, customers btw that know little or nothing about the genre but that the advertisers are trying to get them to buy into to, all in an effort to get more profit; all done with absolutely no concern or respect for the genre or what it adds to Player's Lives as an Art Form (most of US Society is afflicted with this greed virus that DE-valuates all Life experience so MMOs are not the only areas affected by this foolishness);

    ....and finally the Devs whom mostly have no choice, but who did in fact have a choice and share in some of the responsibility as to why this genre has turned into a steaming pile of false advertizing and slick promotions.

    The "Kids"... the customers of Minor Age that play MMOs are not to blame for anything other than perhaps bad etiquette and some shenanigans ingame from time to time, and this I willingly forgive.

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member

    Blame the kids for what? There are so many different problems that people have here and in other gaming communities that the problems aren't problems for all but yet it all gets lumped into one.

     

    There isn't one problem in the industry, most problems aren't universally recognised as being a problem and are actually fun for some. As such there isn't one person or group of people to blame and there is certainly not one solution or solutions that will make everyone happy.

     

     

    Sorry for the formatting.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    I blame Bob.

    Easier than raging at vast nameless masses who dun yuh rong.

    So, if your name is Bob...I'm sorry, everything's all your fault.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gardavsshade
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

    I've never gotten the blame on the kids for easy and quick games.  Kids are generally the ones with the most time to play so I don't see how they could be influencing easy games.  On the other hand older adults growing into the ages with young children and full time jobs are likely going to need more casual games.  I know I went through the phase but I have a lot more time now that my kid is older.  

     

    So why are so many people quick to jump on the kids for problems with the MMORPG genre?

    Where did you get that idea?

    The "Blame" for how the MMO genre has changed and de-evolved over the years rests firmly on the shoulders of.... IMO....

    ....Some of the Players of MMOs that have demanded more casual and solo gameplay in a genre built upon challenging and multiplayer gameplay.... an insane idea from my point of view and mostly the cause of many of the quote-unquote "new and improved features" that I feel do more damage to online gaming and the Players than any amount of convenience they add... this the changes are not worth it and diminish the genre;

    ***some of the Posters on this Forum are the Players that have called for turning MMOs into online Single Player RPGs and these Posters I will gladly admit infuriate me and frustrate me to no end. For their own SELFISH REASONS they seek to change a Genre they did not Create or Appreciate. That is just plain wrong.

    ....the MMO Investors who place Profits as number one and are looking to swap out the original Customer Base(s) of MMOs for much larger Customer Bases, customers btw that know little or nothing about the genre but that the advertisers are trying to get them to buy into to, all in an effort to get more profit; all done with absolutely no concern or respect for the genre or what it adds to Player's Lives as an Art Form (most of US Society is afflicted with this greed virus that DE-valuates all Life experience so MMOs are not the only areas affected by this foolishness);

    ....and finally the Devs whom mostly have no choice, but who did in fact have a choice and share in some of the responsibility as to why this genre has turned into a steaming pile of false advertizing and slick promotions.

    The "Kids"... the customers of Minor Age that play MMOs are not to blame for anything other than perhaps bad etiquette and some shenanigans ingame from time to time, and this I willingly forgive.

     Look up kiddies lol.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon

    I personally don't blame kids for it. I do agree though that the genre has gone down hill and it's not what I expected it to evolve into.

    I don't understand the notion of some players liking everything handed to them. End game? Why? Correct me if I am wrong, but I could have sworn, back in the day, something that made mmorpgs unique was that it never ended. It was suppose to be an adventure that really never ended unless you personally decided to end it yourself. Another thing that was unique about them was that it was suppose to be a world. Traveling from point A to point B is suppose to take time, it's the whole point of it being a world. What is the point of a world if you don't even need it?

    Leveling quickly? You have got to be kidding me. I hear people say the game doesn't begin until level cap. This notion also makes no sense.

    People also argue between sandbox and theme park but I feel that is the least of the genres problems. I personally think you can make a fantastic theme park game as long as it is done correctly. Same goes with sandbox.

    Beyond all this, I don't really complain about it all that often because I know it wont change a thing. I also am well aware that what I think may not be exactly what someone else thinks. You sometimes just have to live with what occurs and tend to have no control over it. That is unless of course you make your own game, however, even then that may not change anything at all.

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    I think it's a combination of kids who have shorter attention spans and have never actually played a pen and paper RPG so they think RPGs should be like Diablo or worse Call of Duty. Then you have a selfish subset of busy adults who can only play for less than an hour a day but still demand the right to "win" an MMO in a month or two not understanding that these games were built to be long term time sinks and many players like them that way.

     

    What the two groups have in common is their selfishness and demanding nature which game companies have caved in to many times to the detriment of their games.

     

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