Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.
AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.
But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.
THANK. GOD.
AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.
Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.
This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.
I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.
I've always had the most fun with WoW, when it comes to dungeons. Mostly because the core gameplay mechanics of your class are tried and true. I especially liked it back in Vanilla and TBC because getting a group together for a dungeon run was part of the "gameplay" as well. You were going to be spending the next 45 minutes to an hour with 4 other people, so you wanted to make sure you had a good group. Reputation meant something, and communication was needed for things like CC and agro (tanks couldn't just hold agro against everything in sight like they can now).
It's horribly simplistic now, but nothing else really comes close even today. Mainly due to low player pops for other games making the process kind of difficult.
I think what he wast trying to say is "several parts of EQ dungeons were soloable".
Cheers.
I said exactly what I meant to say. The dungeons catered to a wide range of numbers. You could solo some spots, you could duo, you could run with a full group. The problem is that particular poster tends to just make stuff up in his replies and he changed it to solo friendly and insinuated I meant everyone could just solo the dungeons when I said nothing like that.
Every single dungeon pre Luclin you could solo pretty large areas of the dungeon (if you weren't a Warrior or Rogue obviously). There were areas that only the best soloers could touch though. My Bard could actually solo almost every normal dungeon boss in the game pre Luclin using charm tactics, Monks could solo anything they could split effectively etc. It was different for every class.
The key to all of that is that the mobs in the dungeons were the same strength as the same level mob outside of the dungeon. When games started to make the dungeon mobs extra hard it pushed them towards requires a group only. Then when they linked them and made the impossible to split it pushed it towards required a full group. I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.
I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.
I much prefer the new style dungeon where you go in an instance with a fixed group so the is no camp check, and content does not become trivial just because 5 more shows up and zerg the mobs.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Ender4I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.
I much prefer the new style dungeon where you go in an instance with a fixed group so the is no camp check, and content does not become trivial just because 5 more shows up and zerg the mobs.
Generally speaking they tune the instances to be trivial so everyone can complete it anyway.
I prefer real dungeons where you can encounter players and its not all pre scripted. They feel more real and more exciting.
I never found standing around with 12 other people waiting for the big bad boss that has been terrorizing the surround lands to spawn so we could all jump him and stomp his face in. I don't know how he ever had time to terrorize anything when he's only alive for 30 seconds at a time.
Yet you're fine with spawning a virtual reality of your own McDungeon where a copy of your favorite boss is conveniently cloned for you and your group's satisfaction. Thousands of the same "Mr. TerroizeYourAss" boss spawned for every Timmy and Jimmy, hurray!
*facepalm*
When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?
How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.
AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.
But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.
THANK. GOD.
AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.
Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.
This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.
I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.
The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons.
But to stay on the specific boss point, you can drop almost any boss inAC with a mixed group. Many you can do solo with enough perseverance. In WOW, there are rage attacks and regen levels designed into each boss to prevent most anything outside the proper group set up to beat it. Basically, I don't think anyone in AC ever said "We're all archers? Forget it, can't be done," whereas WOW bosses are designed specifically to make sure such a scenario is extremely difficult or utterly impossible. (cue the post from the guy that's too stupid to know the difference between 'exception' and 'rule').
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.
AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.
But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.
THANK. GOD.
AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.
Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.
This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.
I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.
The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons.
Erm, sorry Lokto... you usually make a lot of sense in those otherwise senseless waters, but here...
I remember patch days in AC1. It was all about getting to the newest boss mob down the latest dungeon and doing as much damage as possible to beat everyone else and reap the rewards. I know the pain as a melee character before they added "rending" weapons. I also remember people "ninjaing" Aerfalle quests other had provided the materials for and started, by camping the relic city and going into the portal.
Sorry if I don't have those "rose colored glasses" anymore and if I remember games like they were, and not like they were supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, those games were great... but not even remotely close to be as perfect as people try to make you believe they were here.
Well call me old.....but when you say dungeon crawl it brings back memories of the old 'Might & Magic' games. I am currently debating on buying 'Wizardry 8' as it looks like the best option for a great dungeon crawl game plus everyone that has played it gave it top reviews.
For anyone that likes some of the older games and they are DRM free you can find them here: http://www.gog.com/
Without a doubt, Asheron's Call. The diversity of dungeons, the numbers I can pick and choose from at any level range, the action-packed gameplay of slashing through the enemy and wading knee-deep in the dead... HELLZ YEAH.
AC1 had great dungeons, I totally agree (200% actually), but what made the dungeons even greater than just farming them for XP (grouped with a bunch of bots...) was the quests linked to them.
But no AC1 dungeon boss had the mechanics WoW dungeon bosses can have though.
THANK. GOD.
AC was about the hack-n-slash, dungeon crawling experience (flood rooms, respawning, traps, etc) while WOW was modeled after EQ which is to trudge through 'trash mobs' to get to the high-mitigation/regen mountain of hit points in the final room that you whack at for a half hour in order to initiate the loot argument session.
Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.
This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.
I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.
The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons.
Erm, sorry Lokto... you usually make a lot of sense in those otherwise senseless waters, but here...
I remember patch days in AC1. It was all about getting to the newest boss mob down the latest dungeon and doing as much damage as possible to beat everyone else and reap the rewards. I know the pain as a melee character before they added "rending" weapons. I also remember people "ninjaing" Aerfalle quests other had provided the materials for and started, by camping the relic city and going into the portal.
Sorry if I don't have those "rose colored glasses" anymore and if I remember games like they were, and not like they were supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, those games were great... but not even remotely close to be as perfect as people try to make you believe they were here.
Whoa there. When did I say AC players were perfect? I'm speaking solely from a design perspective. I don't doubt that you or others tried to get the kill to take the loot at some point. We're talking about bosses and which we preferred, right? You said AC bosses didn't have the mechanics of WOW bosses. I replied to that specific statement (highlighted it) with THANK GOD because I don't like the rare drop and DKP stuff. In WOW, the dungeon exists solely for the rare drop pinata (boss) at the end. In many AC dungeons, the boss is entirely optional or non-existent. In the ones where it exists, it doesn't make a difference if someone grabs item x from the boss because it ALWAYS drops item x. With very few exceptions (Aerfalle and a couple others), you don't have to repeat a 45 minute to 1.5 hr run to get the boss drop, and it certainly isn't in hopes of a tiny chance of MAYBE getting that drop from the boss.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Either AC1 or EQ1. AC1 had just a tremendous variety of dungeons scattered throughout the world to explore. It was probably nearly impossible for one person to explore all of them.
EQ1 had some awesome open world dungeons in vanilla and the first two expansions. It's too bad after Velious the quality of the open world dungeons really took a turn for the worse. The people who designed dungeons like Sebilis and Howling Stones must not have stayed with SOE.
When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?
How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
Says who?
If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.
Whatever you want is irrelevant to the market. Clearly MMORPGs are not solo-able games, and often there is no persistent world in many aspects of the gameplay (instance pvp & pve).
If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. Millions seem to enjoy it, hence the market respond.
Well, I'll leave it to your simplistic (and possibly/obviously ignorant) view that "WoW style" bosses all have to be about DKP and rare drops. I'm happy to actually have played WoW and know better than that.
If the bosses in dungeons no longer do percentage-based drops of rare, often needed for raiding, gear then that's a change since last I played. Haven't played since TBC, so if they are different now then I apologize for my ignorance of the newer design. Prior to that, the purpose of the dungeon was to hold the boss and the purpose of the boss was to drop rare items.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Remember the dungeon boss that only took damage from healers ? That was fun, sitting 60 minutes at the side an watching the healers hitting that thing for good :-)
When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?
How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
Says who?
If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.
They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.
Originally posted by tzj2006 AoC was my favorite so far, a decent amount of challenge and the atmosphere and art direction were amazing. Too bad the pop is so low
I couldn't make it through most of the content in AoC because it was such tedious simple WoW quest grinding and the zones were really linear.
What are the dungeons like? Are they instanced? Can I go into them with a few friends and run them, or am I locked out until I get to a specific quest point in a quest I have to pay for, like in LotRO? I found it near impossible to do dungeons in LOtRO with friends, the game fights you every step of the way. Are they linear "clear the boss" deals, or more open?
When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?
How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
Says who?
If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.
They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.
The massive belly flop has more players than Eve, and darkfall.
And which hugely successful MMO cannot be solo-ed or have no instances? GW2?
When you read a book are you the only one ever to read it ? a movie ? a single player game ?
How is an instance any different than a single playe game ?
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
Says who?
If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.
They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.
The massive belly flop has more players than Eve, and darkfall.
First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.
SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.
You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.
First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.
SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.
You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.
All excuses. Eve has years .. and what happened? Not even a mil of players.
How about GW2? Take them what ... 4 weeks to get to 2M?
First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.
SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.
You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.
All excuses. Eve has years .. and what happened? Not even a mil of players.
I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.
I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.
You have a very strange definition of "successful". It certainly took a long time to get to a pantry of a small 500k player base. Say GW2 got that in what? 3 days?
And it is smaller than GW2, LoL, WoT, and not to mention WoW.
I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.
You have a very strange definition of "successful". It certainly took a long time to get to a pantry of a small 500k player base. Say GW2 got that in what? 3 days?
And it is smaller than GW2, LoL, WoT, and not to mention WoW.
Your opinion does not make it a success.
Got it, troll or not, you aren't worth listening to. You're entirely out of touch with reality. Either that or you don't have the barest grasp on how business works, and you do not even attempt to back up your facts. You also like to refer to non MMOs to support MMO based arguments. So right, to the ignore list!
Comments
Errr how many dungeons have you done in WoW? If you think bosses are just mobs with huge health you simply "whack", you couldn't be more wrong... and actually, that sounds more like AC1 to me, where indeed all fights were "tank and spank", with the bosses having huge amount of health.
This said, I'm sure both experiences can be combined. Remember also, AC1 was all about camping the big boss at the bottom of the dungeon, and then doing as much damage as possible in hope to beat the line jumpers and other macros in killing it so you could finally get your turn to loot.
I'd love a game that combines the traps, puzzles, flood rooms, etc... of AC1 with the more advanced boss mechanics of WoW. GW2 comes close in many of the mini dungeons and some jumping puzzles too, but it can be done better.
My computer is better than yours.
I've always had the most fun with WoW, when it comes to dungeons. Mostly because the core gameplay mechanics of your class are tried and true. I especially liked it back in Vanilla and TBC because getting a group together for a dungeon run was part of the "gameplay" as well. You were going to be spending the next 45 minutes to an hour with 4 other people, so you wanted to make sure you had a good group. Reputation meant something, and communication was needed for things like CC and agro (tanks couldn't just hold agro against everything in sight like they can now).
It's horribly simplistic now, but nothing else really comes close even today. Mainly due to low player pops for other games making the process kind of difficult.
You make me like charity
Best dungeon crawl? Diablo series hands down. Great combat. Totally solo-able. Not a MMO, but still best dungeon crawls (to me).
I said exactly what I meant to say. The dungeons catered to a wide range of numbers. You could solo some spots, you could duo, you could run with a full group. The problem is that particular poster tends to just make stuff up in his replies and he changed it to solo friendly and insinuated I meant everyone could just solo the dungeons when I said nothing like that.
Every single dungeon pre Luclin you could solo pretty large areas of the dungeon (if you weren't a Warrior or Rogue obviously). There were areas that only the best soloers could touch though. My Bard could actually solo almost every normal dungeon boss in the game pre Luclin using charm tactics, Monks could solo anything they could split effectively etc. It was different for every class.
The key to all of that is that the mobs in the dungeons were the same strength as the same level mob outside of the dungeon. When games started to make the dungeon mobs extra hard it pushed them towards requires a group only. Then when they linked them and made the impossible to split it pushed it towards required a full group. I much prefer the old style dungeon where you can go in with however many you have and then move to harder stuff if more people show up.
I much prefer the new style dungeon where you go in an instance with a fixed group so the is no camp check, and content does not become trivial just because 5 more shows up and zerg the mobs.
EQ2 fan sites
Generally speaking they tune the instances to be trivial so everyone can complete it anyway.
Because massively multiplayer games are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world?... If I wanted a singleplayer experience that didn't suck, I wouldn't play an MMO, I'd play a singleplayer game.
The difference is in the rewards and the design of the content. One game has 'trash mobs' and drops so rare that raiders have extensive spreadsheets and online apps to manage who can or should get a particular item if/when it drops. In AC1, UO and other games with public dungeons, the dungeon is about fighting monsters and not about avoiding whatever you can until you get to the big thing at the end with the gear you almost need to have if you want to join your guild in successive dungeons.
But to stay on the specific boss point, you can drop almost any boss inAC with a mixed group. Many you can do solo with enough perseverance. In WOW, there are rage attacks and regen levels designed into each boss to prevent most anything outside the proper group set up to beat it. Basically, I don't think anyone in AC ever said "We're all archers? Forget it, can't be done," whereas WOW bosses are designed specifically to make sure such a scenario is extremely difficult or utterly impossible. (cue the post from the guy that's too stupid to know the difference between 'exception' and 'rule').
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Erm, sorry Lokto... you usually make a lot of sense in those otherwise senseless waters, but here...
I remember patch days in AC1. It was all about getting to the newest boss mob down the latest dungeon and doing as much damage as possible to beat everyone else and reap the rewards. I know the pain as a melee character before they added "rending" weapons. I also remember people "ninjaing" Aerfalle quests other had provided the materials for and started, by camping the relic city and going into the portal.
Sorry if I don't have those "rose colored glasses" anymore and if I remember games like they were, and not like they were supposed to be. Don't get me wrong, those games were great... but not even remotely close to be as perfect as people try to make you believe they were here.
My computer is better than yours.
Well call me old.....but when you say dungeon crawl it brings back memories of the old 'Might & Magic' games. I am currently debating on buying 'Wizardry 8' as it looks like the best option for a great dungeon crawl game plus everyone that has played it gave it top reviews.
For anyone that likes some of the older games and they are DRM free you can find them here: http://www.gog.com/
Here is the link for 'Wizardry 8' for anyone that is interested plus it's on Steam too: http://www.gog.com/game/wizardry_8
Whoa there. When did I say AC players were perfect? I'm speaking solely from a design perspective. I don't doubt that you or others tried to get the kill to take the loot at some point. We're talking about bosses and which we preferred, right? You said AC bosses didn't have the mechanics of WOW bosses. I replied to that specific statement (highlighted it) with THANK GOD because I don't like the rare drop and DKP stuff. In WOW, the dungeon exists solely for the rare drop pinata (boss) at the end. In many AC dungeons, the boss is entirely optional or non-existent. In the ones where it exists, it doesn't make a difference if someone grabs item x from the boss because it ALWAYS drops item x. With very few exceptions (Aerfalle and a couple others), you don't have to repeat a 45 minute to 1.5 hr run to get the boss drop, and it certainly isn't in hopes of a tiny chance of MAYBE getting that drop from the boss.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Either AC1 or EQ1. AC1 had just a tremendous variety of dungeons scattered throughout the world to explore. It was probably nearly impossible for one person to explore all of them.
EQ1 had some awesome open world dungeons in vanilla and the first two expansions. It's too bad after Velious the quality of the open world dungeons really took a turn for the worse. The people who designed dungeons like Sebilis and Howling Stones must not have stayed with SOE.
Says who?
If MMO are about playing with other people in a realistic immersive world, solo-content and instances won't be so popular.
Whatever you want is irrelevant to the market. Clearly MMORPGs are not solo-able games, and often there is no persistent world in many aspects of the gameplay (instance pvp & pve).
If you don't like it, you don't have to play it. Millions seem to enjoy it, hence the market respond.
If the bosses in dungeons no longer do percentage-based drops of rare, often needed for raiding, gear then that's a change since last I played. Haven't played since TBC, so if they are different now then I apologize for my ignorance of the newer design. Prior to that, the purpose of the dungeon was to hold the boss and the purpose of the boss was to drop rare items.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
DAoC of course !!!
Remember the dungeon boss that only took damage from healers ? That was fun, sitting 60 minutes at the side an watching the healers hitting that thing for good :-)
Step in the arena and break the wall down
They don't appear to be, see: SWTOR's massive belly flop.
I couldn't make it through most of the content in AoC because it was such tedious simple WoW quest grinding and the zones were really linear.
What are the dungeons like? Are they instanced? Can I go into them with a few friends and run them, or am I locked out until I get to a specific quest point in a quest I have to pay for, like in LotRO? I found it near impossible to do dungeons in LOtRO with friends, the game fights you every step of the way. Are they linear "clear the boss" deals, or more open?
The massive belly flop has more players than Eve, and darkfall.
And which hugely successful MMO cannot be solo-ed or have no instances? GW2?
First of all, that's incorrect in terms of Eve. Eve has 500k subscribers and growing, and a lot more free players. That's with almost no marketing, or budget, or brand names.
SWTOR, the most expensive MMO ever made, with both Bioware's name behind it, and Star Wars behind it, crashed and burned faster than almost any MMO ever made, and its transition to FTP has only slowed its decline, not stopped it.
You can sell a lot of boxes with the marketing budget SWTOR had (probably bigger than Eve's development budget) but they won't stay if they don't like the game, and they don't.
All excuses. Eve has years .. and what happened? Not even a mil of players.
How about GW2? Take them what ... 4 weeks to get to 2M?
I flip flop trying to figure out if you're just a very dedicated troll, or if you don't read the things you respond to. Eve is one of the most successful MMOs of all time. It has a growing stable population. Your precious instanced solo centric MMOs do not.
You have a very strange definition of "successful". It certainly took a long time to get to a pantry of a small 500k player base. Say GW2 got that in what? 3 days?
And it is smaller than GW2, LoL, WoT, and not to mention WoW.
Your opinion does not make it a success.
Got it, troll or not, you aren't worth listening to. You're entirely out of touch with reality. Either that or you don't have the barest grasp on how business works, and you do not even attempt to back up your facts. You also like to refer to non MMOs to support MMO based arguments. So right, to the ignore list!
Now can someone answer my Age of Conan question?