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Why not more SandBox MMO's.

RenoakuRenoaku Posts: 1,005Member Uncommon

Seriously the reason I think most MMO's Absolutely Fail.

1.) Limits, Every MMO I play which is F2P, or Pay 2 Play has Limits on what players can do for example "Crafting" Who ever said that a game has to limit a persons Character to a Single Craft. Like Age OF Wushu for example I check out the game recently it was updated became a bit better, but I am still limited to one craft and that immediately turned me away from the game because they list the game as a Sand-Box have a bad reputation anyways and its not a true sand-box.

. Who ever said that a MMO has to have limits on what players can enjoy.

Any mmorpg made after 2010 Should have

. Free Barbershop

. No limits on crafting skills

. Why the need for multiple characters, one character can do all Roles with a Role Changing system like Dark-Fall.

. Take path of exile for example having spell reflect which can instant kill a person is the reason I don't play because I can't play full crit build or I kill myself limiting the path I can take to enjoy my game. It does say I can build any way I want to but really can't do so if I can 1 hit myself and playing hard-core which kills the experience for me.

2.) Games which currently have this.

. EVE Online, Although I quit the game because of the changes made in  Odyssey it killed the EVE Experience for me specifically scanning, and mining changes I did not like at all.

. Dark Fall Online.

. Final Fantasy XIV

. Albion Online

3.) So why other MMO's like Guild Wars 2, do not support Freedom to learn all crafts and level them max is beyond me, well technically they do, but having to go and constantly swap skill-sets is annoying as hell I want the ability to walk over to a table and craft with tailor go over to the next table cook my food like Dark-Fall or EVE, there is absolutely no sense why GW2 Limits this. Besides Nice Graphics GW1 was way better GW2 Lacks Skill Customization like GW1 had.

I hope to see in the future more Freedom come to mmorpg based games that are created and released to give players the freedom to experience their RPG how they choose to do such, not scripted systems restricting crafting, or customization/barbershop which is just stupid.

Every MMO that I have played that has been released from Perfect World, or all these other F2P Games do not offer Good Content even when paying over $30 a month like Age OF Wushu for example if I had the ability to experience a full sand-box MMO for $20 a month I would subscribe and enjoy the game but I am restricted I have to use 6 accounts to enjoy the game the way I want that means I would have to spend hundreds of dollars a month to make every account a VIP or just make one a VIP. 

Even Buy 2 Play games like GW2 have serious restrictions which I do not feel they should have, even some Pay 2 Play games have restrictions on crafts, and are not innovative at all to support new 2010 gaming demands that players would like to have in a RPG.

Take Sony for a good example their F2P Games like EQ2, and PlanetSide 2 Suck, both games lag like heck they blame my PC as being the problem, but the real problem Sony needs better developers, same thing with Fire Fall, and Gamers First with APB Reloaded. 

> Planet Side 1 works Great no lag issues 100% smooth to me.

> Planet Side 2 Lags like crazy. ( Well I can play it if I wanted, but with the game not feeling 100% smooth like PS1) I refuse to.  "Also the character Models in Planet Side 2 are a complete laugh."

> DCUO Plays Great, I just don't like the lack of customization and content so I don't play it for example many characters to do what one character should be able to do in the game.

> APB Reloaded, When RTW run the game besides hackers it preform great, Recently with new patches when Gamers First changed the Login screen I get weird popping sounds from my PC, the lack of Customization in game, and changes made by Gamers First completely killed the game for me great game Bad company.

> Nexon, a Bunch of Liars I remember when they released Combat Arms years ago it played great now lag, now I play recently it lags like crazy compared to years ago, they also promised players that it would not really be Pay 2 Win but add specialists to a game and made me quit the game.

It seems that Game Developers are getting pretty lazy when it comes to Development of games, I am waiting to see a Real 2013/2014 MMO that I can actively play and do as I please.

. All on a single character using Class Swap, and power Swap like if DCUO allowed me to recall to safe hub and change my weapon types and Power I would likely be playing DCUO.

. No Limits to Crafting.

Games that might be good which I already backed is Currently "Star Citizen" I don't know much about "Black Desert" or Trion's new game "Arche Age" But I feel these two MMO's will likely be a massive Failure. No developers seem to know how to design a good game anymore.

Years ago when Technology, Coding, and Game Engines really did not exist to create good games where players could freely change with a barber shop, or change classes with a single character it was okay, but today is 2013, not 1999-2005 when these ideas were not around. 

So for the love of god give us some Good MMO's for 2014 that don't have all these restrictions from the past.

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Comments

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon

    Content is the golden pin and the tenuous link that dictates much of this.

     

    The quality, abundance, complexity, control, and implementation of the content that drives sandbox games is all factors that have made the genre very hard to pull off well.

     

    My brain is a bit too short on thinking power at the moment to actually explain things though. >_<

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    Damn, your post is hard to read. I couldn't make it all the way through. Anyway,  you seem to want a game that allows your character to have no weaknesses at all. Single players have something like that called "god mode". Most people don't play games in that way for more for my than 5 minutes because it gets really boring fast. Tradeoffs and risk/reward decisions make games more fun for most people.

     

    Honestly I don't know what other points you were making other than "These games all suck because I found one thing about them I don't like!" But a sandbox is still going to have limits on your power because allowing the player to do literally anything they want would be both stupid and not work at all in a multiplayer environment. What is the point of having other people around if your character can do anything in the game all by himself?

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    90% of people asking for a "true" sandbox would be bored in under a week if they really got one.
  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon

    A post laden with contradictions.

    Game plays great!  Oh except for this thing which I don't like.

    The fallacy in your argument ( more like complaint) is that all games should be specifically designed for you.  Do you have any idea the amount of design decisions that go into making an MMO?  Well neither do I but it must be a huge number and if you think that you will like or agree with each and every one, then you are eating pie in the sky my friend. 

    I play many different MMO's.  Of course there are things I like and don't like about each one.  Difference between me and you is I put the emphasis on things I do like, whereas you, as well as many other posters here seem to go out of your way find as many negatives as you can.    Its a vicious circle and you will never enjoy games as long as you continue looking at them in this way.

    Its not a Perfect World! (pun intended) and you are never going to find that perfect game.  Get over it!

     

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • SyanisSyanis Minneapolis, MNPosts: 68Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    90% of people asking for a "true" sandbox would be bored in under a week if they really got one.

    So very true. The vast majority want a path to follow to some direction. They want a point to their character and many have an idea when they make a character how they want them to end up. All of these concepts are themepark concepts and while could be in a sandbox it would never be a true sandbox. A true sandbox would be a complete bored very quickly to most players if not almost all.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    Because most MMORPG players complain the second a game becomes hard or doesn't lead them around by the nose. The player base is the issue, not so much the games themselves. The average player is the problem, not the games.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,348Member Uncommon
    there is some nice sandbox multi player games releasing but not true mmorpgs. Starforge 7 days to die the dead linger planet explorers and realm explorers are all nice multiplayer sandbox games but lack true mmorpg servers since they are indie games. I think a lot more people would actually be turned onto sandbox style games if every single mmorpg version that comes out wasnt full loot pvp and designed around pvp all the time anywhere. Some people like to have a break from pvp all the time and just relax and craft things, look at how well SWG did for many years , it was a good sandbox that had you have to flag for pvp if you wanted to represent your faction but crafting was its major gem of that game. Xsyon was another true pve sandbox but they made the stupid mistake of allowing full loot pvp on a unfinished game and had morons building giant holes where new players would log in just to grief them . Now after he finally gets on steam he finally wants to make a pve server to attract more players. I think majority of sandboxes fail and remain small is the fact that people do not want to spend days and hours building up stuff only to have it destroyed and griefed. If you can remember sandbox games remember back to shadowbane that had a HUGE population but quickly lost 99% of it because of that exact same reason.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    They take more thought to develop. More variables need to be considered. Much easier use copy past and slap a 50$ price tag on a digital box and make a few million dollars. 
  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Sandbox has become a very loose term where people think EQN is going to be a sandbox just because the devs say so and they let you design some areas to pay for. I guess Neverwinter is a sandbox in that case *facepalm*
  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member

    Why not more sandbox MMOs?

    Maybe game developers want their games to be successful. image

  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 550Member Uncommon

    More gamers than not prefer to have direction, it is not being led around by the nose to have a point to the game, such as quests and storylines and goals. It is simply having activities to do versus wandering around grinding aimlessly.

    I for one don't want a character that can do everything, just like in real life, I don't want to go to a doctor that is also a lumberjack, a magician, a racecar driver, a lawyer, a baker, a police officer and a minister.... I would really prefer they focused on medicine.

    Playing God gets boring.

    I really feel my sig says it all about sandbox lovers, it is ultimately the only way to please one.

     

    PS: SWG was NOT a sandbox, apparently people's memories are all fuzzy... you didn't have as much freedom as you remember having.

     

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Originally posted by grimgryphon

    Why not more sandbox MMOs?

    Maybe game developers want their games to be successful. image

    Ya but they're not successful so obviously infinite clones of WoW aren't working are they?

    Time for something new. So far my vote is with Black Desert and Pathfinder.

  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 454Member Uncommon

    I like being able to be everything on one character but at the same time i think its stupid.

    i shouldnt be able to master everything, its unrealistic.

    I think you should have a main class and profession and anything learned after that is gated a bit. You can level your other profs but once you become a master in one the rest you can only be a journeyman or something.

  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 550Member Uncommon

    Name a single successful true sandbox.

    *crickets*

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • EncephalitisEncephalitis anchorage, AKPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by Renoaku> DCUO Plays Great, I just don't like the lack of customization

    Saw this and the reading came to a dead stop. This comment alone makes me question the entire validity of your post, and here's why.

    I played DCUO for quite awhile (several months, all day every day). During that period of time, not ONCE did i ever see a person who looked like i did NOR did they have the same skill kit as i. I raided with a bunch of different people, helped countless do quests and do daily's, and not one time during any of that did i find a person who played like anybody else nor looked like anybody else.

    (Addendum, i take back that NOBODY looked the same. I saw a few "deadpool" wannabes in my time. They we're also incredibly illiterate.)

    Maybe you would be better off playing Garry's Mod.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Sandbox has become a very loose term where people think EQN is going to be a sandbox just because the devs say so and they let you design some areas to pay for. I guess Neverwinter is a sandbox in that case *facepalm*

    Odd.  I thought they were calling it a sandbox because it appears to offer massive control in letting you create.  Which is kinda the main part about a sandbox... you know creating things with sand.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Because sandbox is a niche...  98% of people cant handle them, they prefer to be entertained... and so the people that actually stick ith sandboxes are very low in number..

     

    Its all about making money....  and a themepark with some sandbox feeling sells much better the a full sandbox game.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DauntisDauntis Kansas City, MOPosts: 550Member Uncommon

    Can anyone actually define a sandbox at this point?

     

    Seems to most users on this site that a Sandbox is a game that makes you invulnerable, all powerful  and allows you to do anything you want and create anything you want. I am not even sure how you encapsulate that into a game, when people want to be dual chainsaw laser sword wielding, sniper, ninja, pirate, cyborg, healer, dps master, tank and time traveller who is also an architect, butcher, armorsmith, weaponsmith, herbalist, medic, tailor, painter and pizza delivery guy.

    I would like to give an opinion on this post, but if I agree I will offend people who disagree. While if I disagree my comment will be seen as inflammatory. Either way I will get banned by this site full of the most delicate flowers in online gaming. Ban people for giving honest opinions... beautiful. Unfortunately I still like the articles.

  • MMO-VeteranMMO-Veteran Lufkin, TXPosts: 45Member
    I'll go out on a limb and say they generally fail, are always bad quality and low population.
  • MMO-VeteranMMO-Veteran Lufkin, TXPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Originally posted by grimgryphon

    Why not more sandbox MMOs?

    Maybe game developers want their games to be successful. image

    Ya but they're not successful so obviously infinite clones of WoW aren't working are they?

    Time for something new. So far my vote is with Black Desert and Pathfinder.

    Last week I went from MMO to MMO checking populations out... WoW, GW2, Neverwinter, Rift are good. Most other games seem dead, Sand boxes are worse off then WoW Clones and I think it is the MMO genre in general that's dying. Games like LoL, Hearthstone, PoE, Diablo 3 take a solid chunk away.

  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Originally posted by grimgryphon

    Why not more sandbox MMOs?

    Maybe game developers want their games to be successful. image

    Ya but they're not successful so obviously infinite clones of WoW aren't working are they?

    Time for something new. So far my vote is with Black Desert and Pathfinder.

    Fast forward...

    Headline 1:

    Black Desert closes up shop after a long run of 4 1/2 weeks. All 7 players disappointed.

    Headline 2:

    Goblinworks stops development on Pathfinder Online. Remaining three Kickstarter investors who haven't already asked for their money back continue to claim sandboxes are the future.

    Headline 3:

    Aventurine continues experimenting with changes to various combat mechanics and re-releases Darkfall: Unholy Wars as Darkfall: My Boat needs Painting Reborn.

    Headline 4:

    Star Vault employee accidentally shuts down Mortal Online game server. No one notices.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Originally posted by grimgryphon

    Why not more sandbox MMOs?

    Maybe game developers want their games to be successful. image

    Ya but they're not successful so obviously infinite clones of WoW aren't working are they?

    Time for something new. So far my vote is with Black Desert and Pathfinder.

    Fast forward...

    Headline 1:

    Black Desert closes up shop after a long run of 4 1/2 weeks. All 7 players disappointed.

    Headline 2:

    Goblinworks stops development on Pathfinder Online. Remaining three Kickstarter investors who haven't already asked for their money back continue to claim sandboxes are the future.

    Headline 3:

    Aventurine continues experimenting with changes to various combat mechanics and re-releases Darkfall: Unholy Wars as Darkfall: My Boat needs Painting Reborn.

    Headline 4:

    Star Vault employee accidentally shuts down Mortal Online game server. No one notices.

    I laughed because any one of these could easily happen. I was going to quip something about the 25 people on this site that want a sandbox (but aren't playing one) wouldn't be enough to support one, but your post is better.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
     

    Fast forward...

    Headline 1:

    Black Desert closes up shop after a long run of 4 1/2 weeks. All 7 players disappointed.

    Thank you Nostradumbass. I know you think your post is really clever and funny but the fact is the same could be true of *any* game coming out. I could just as easily "WildStar will fail because it is yet another WoW clone with a piss poor ugly artstyle". Truth is, while I know I won't be playing WildStar, others might.  It's dumb to predict a game will fail before it comes out unless you have seen the game itself and know it is really badly designed (not just designed in a way you don't like).

    Lots of people want a more sandbox game, if you don't, then I'm sure there'll still be plenty of themeparks for you to play.

     

     

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    Name a single successful true sandbox.

    *crickets*

    Minecraft.

    *baaaa*

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,461Member Uncommon

    The limited crafting skills is done for a reason, a simple one,it helps create/support a game economy.

    Free barbershop,seriously?I can think of about 500 things i would worry about before hair styles.

    EQ2 will lag but shouldn't,yes they have awful coders that leave lots of memory leaks in their games but it also has to do with higher end graphics/effects/lighting that would cause lag.Also SOE tends to flood areas with objects/mobs ect ect,sometimes that helps a game sometimes it just lags it.

    I don't like seeing the term Sandbox means nothing to me,i just like quality gaming,don't care what label people put on them.


    Samoan Diamond

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