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Is MMORPG longevity a myth?

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    MMO's do not have an exclusive hold on "longevity", and they don't necessarily "fail" if they don't keep all players exclusively playing them for years. But both the concept of "longevity" and "fail" are extremely subjective, so this tends to be an endless argument.

    This is exactly right.

    For a B2P game like GW2, they already make their money (or a large part of it) when you buy the game. Whether the players stick around for a long time is not as important as a sub-only game.

     

  • goldtoofgoldtoof Member Posts: 337
    Only pve mmos I've played a long time were wow and EQ. All the others you end up finishing the game after few months

    Pvp mmos are a different matter, I've stuck around in war, daoc & planetside 2 for a long time, because they don't run out of content.
  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,286
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    "Modern MMORPGs" have no longevity, most crash after a few months.

    That was not the case with a good number of the "original" MMORPGs, which actually increased player populations after launch (a radical concept, I know...).

    Careful there; many (all?) of the originals peaked and went into declines before year five.

    In fact, you can count the number of games that increased population steadily for more than five years on just two fingers, can't you? Neither of those two games being considered 'classic era'--not good for the point you're trying to make here.

    It most certainly is: A game holding or increasing its population to year 5 is unheard of these days.

    Forget 5 years, how about 2 years? 1 Year?

    TOR, The Secret World, Rift, even GW2 had big numbers at the beginning and then crashed. None of those had any increase after launch, at all...

    UO, SWG, EvE, DAOC, and others had their numbers go up after launch, as word of mouth got more people to play.

    All world of mouth does these days is tell people how shallow the game is, how short a time it takes to "beat" an MMORPG, and how crappy the cash shop is.

     

    And those are two trends pretty much all the numbers show to be what has really happened.

     

    You're also not comparing apples to apples here. Before WoW the mmo market was a niche market, slowly growing, but it was still very niche. EQ was the "big deal" before WoW and was mentioned in some other media, but nothing like WoW. 

    So what has really happened is that in the post WoW era, mmos became just like every other game. They are advertised well, and sell big at the outset after which point people play through as much as they care to see and put it down. The mmorpg is no longer a genre for nerds. It's yet another gaming genre, and we're seeing the effects of it now.

    We're starting to see changes in the genre. ANet tried to at least be different with GW2, but I'd say they didn't go far enough. Games like ESO and EQN are also at least attempting to not follow the exact WoW formula. At the same time, FF XIV completely followed the WoW formula (with a slight twist) and they have 1.5 million active accounts (time will tell whether this is meaningful or not). 

    MMOs are far to mainstream to be set outside the sphere of the rest of the gaming world. Sure, mmos by their very nature are designed to be long term affairs, but does the average gamer have the attention span for that anymore? Get to max level, beat the raids and many claim they've beaten the game and leave. Nevermind any new content that is delivered after the fact, because the game is "beat" in their eyes.

    The newer games are partially to blame, but the change in gaming habits, those who seemingly want instant action, are just as much to blame. When FPS and MOBAs have the highest consistent populations that shows where the population went and what they want.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    I don't think it's the games that last long, I think it's the social and online aspects. We talk about FPS games. Well the campaign on an FPS is like 10 hours, tops! However, if you look at the way that COD: Black Ops 2 implemented Monthly tournaments, complete with built-in progression systems that change as you play, it's obvious that FPS games COULD experience the same longevity as an MMORPG, or, I'll say, most MMORPGs. 

     

    Granted, there are some MMOs, like UO, EQ, WoW, which stand the test of time. For the most part, though, I think that a well-executed FPS could out-last an MMO. Look at LoL, as another example. Probably already outlasted 80% of all MMOs ever produced, lol. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • goldtoofgoldtoof Member Posts: 337
    There's already fps that have been going for years and years. Team fortress 2 for a start.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by goldtoof
    There's already fps that have been going for years and years. Team fortress 2 for a start.

    Touche! For that matter, probably longer than 99% of MMOs at this point. 

     

    There are so many life eaters out there now. Just pick your poison :) 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381

    Responded "no" but I think first should be clear what "longevity" mean. If game will stay for long and I will play through years ... have no problem with this. For me already Wow is of this kind. Playing it since BC (heh, did not play since start because did not like that cartoony looks ... but now it is one of the best ever for me) all this years. Have no doubt will play for years and years Swtor. However this 2 are so far only "longevity" games.

    But if "longevity" for somebody mean one should play ONLY one game for years and years on daily basis ... that would be madness to expect. No matter how much I love i.e. pizza I can not eat pizza 5 times per day and for 20 years. Would also mean I have some serious problem under my "roof". :-)

  • JC-SmithJC-Smith Member UncommonPosts: 421

    MMOs still have a longer longevity than most single player games. But I do think on average they have much less than they used to. Players expect more, oftentimes having unrealistic expectations. They get hyped for games prior to launch and are almost inevitably disappointed post-launch. I think part of this has to do with the longer development times on MMOs (typically five years). Players wait so long for a game to launch that they've invested of thought into it, and had plenty of time to allow their imaginations to run wild on what they think it will be or what they expect from it. And because the games typically involve so many moving parts, they are generally rushed to launch through player and publisher pressure. What we typically see is games that have a very polished and fun early game, that loses it's luster as you progress deeper into it because the higher end areas did not receive as much testing and polishing.

    Then add to that there are so many alternatives today. So many free games that you can easily just download and try. That wasn't the option in the early games. Your choice back then was of a few games, each with a box price, subscription, and their own set of problems. So players generally invested more time into each game, which made it harder to leave. Nobody likes to leave months or years of work. They don't like leaving behind the friendships they made in those games, either. At least not in the older, more game centric games. As MMOs became more soloable, they became less social, which tajkes away that second component.

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Member UncommonPosts: 357

    If you execute the design for an MMO correctly, no other form of game can hold a candle to the longevity factor. That is, after all, the biggest strength the MMO format can provide over other types of games. So no, it's not a myth. On the other hand, The number of MMO developers and publishers willing and able of utilizing that strength tend to be few and far between, as most of them seem to be looking for the quick buck, not thinking about the long term costs or concerns that come with the server based format. So while longevity is not a myth, it is heavily reliant on having players, developers, and publishers all willing to make that aspect a focus, something that very few people of any of those three categories are going to be willing to do. I wouldn't quite call an MMO that fails to achieve longevity a failure, but I do question whether designing those games as MMOs is really the best design for that style of game, since they have to deal with all of limitations that come with server based games, and are completely ignoring the vast majority of the benefits. Sure, they can do alright, but they would actually probably be a far better product, and be far more successful, in a different format that played to that style of game rather than trying to shoehorn it into a format that doesn't really work all that well for games designed to be short and dumpable.

    On a side note about the WoW being an exception, it very much is. Trying to use WoW to justify anything not directly related to WOW is completely pointless. You have to be careful about what points of data you are using from games like EVE or EQ, but it can be do to a fairly large degree; neither break the "normal" paradigms to the point they render those paradigms useless.  There's no point in even trying to do anything with WOW in the greater context of market comparisons for anything. It breaks all the normal rules to a point that it is it's own rule, and that is that it's a completely unique thing that will never be seen again. Trying to design it's successor based on WoW is folly, and the over saturated market shows this.

  • sportsfansportsfan Member Posts: 431

    MMO's are no longer the only "long term played" games on the market.

    PvP based games have an enormous staying power on the internet for the moment.

    All Dota games, all PvP based games like COD maps, SC2 etc have also huge advavntages over MMO's.

    You can jump in and have eternal PvP fun. Quick and still motivating to play it in the long run.

    The biggest gap at the moment is the needed content for MMO's to ever expand their universes.

    The games I cited hardly need content updates from their developpers (except to tweak classes/mechanics).

    ---

    As a side note: in MMO's it takes so much time investment, you are really down to playing one or two games and so missing out on other very fun games.

    Now PvP in MMO's can be fun too ... but frankly it takes months before getting the right gear etc...

    ---

    Not meaning to sound too pessimistic, but our biological lives are really too short to devote all of our free time to just one or two games...

     

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Member UncommonPosts: 2,527

    Ultima Online-2 years (lost interest after the Trammel introduction)

    Everquest 2- 3 years

    Star Wars Galaxies- 8 years

    EVE Online 6 years

    Star Trek Online-2 years

    Rift- 2 years


  • goldtoofgoldtoof Member Posts: 337
    I don't think wow is the exception when it comes to long term play. It might be compared to simmilar games that came out AFTER wow.

    But the likes of EQ and daoc had as much, if not more content than wow.

    Sandbox games like eve have an inate long term playability about them.

    As do games with more of a pvp focus, as pvp content does not really run out.

    Themepark pve content is the issue, most mmos can't sustain it, especially the more modern mmos as with higher graphics, voice over and what not, it becomes too expensive to keep churning out new content. There's a reason why the games with lots of themepark pve like wow, EQ, eq2, coh & daoc are the older games.
  • pkpkpkpkpkpk Member UncommonPosts: 265

    Everybody I knew who played the old MMORPGs didn't 'game with' anybody. They played by themselves. Many met their husband or wife through the game. Needless to say, they played a lot.

     

    The difference between these games and the new games is that the old games were challenging. My longevity in a Candy Land MMORPG is measured in terms of minutes.

     

    It's about more than that, though. A game like WoW put considerable thought into making the experience fun from the very start. I am not sure how or why good taste like that has all but disappeared from games, or if it was an accident to begin with. Such it is, though. League of Legends believes that art can be 'updated'; World of Warcraft believes that a world can be 'streamlined'.  These people sell their souls like Faust to the devil to make some money. There is always some poor sucker willing to sit in a chair if he can put bread on his table at home. People will put poison in baby formula to make some money. Ethical men where they still exist stand apart from them and the rank and file move in to take their place. The United States does not need to institute a draft; people voluntarily join the army. Cancer by definition eats away at its host.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by pkpkpk

    Everybody I knew who played the old MMORPGs didn't 'game with' anybody. They played by themselves. Many met their husband or wife through the game. Needless to say, they played a lot.

     

    The difference between these games and the new games is that the old games were challenging. My longevity in a Candy Land MMORPG is measured in terms of minutes.

    I didn't find the old games to be challenging.  They were frustrating.  They imposed time sinks.  Nothing in them was difficult, it was just dull.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

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