Its not about having clouded judgement. Its about simply wanting something different than what the masses want. Us old vets that want the old school mechanics with a new realistic graphics engine for better immersion arent wrong. We just want something that hasnt been offered yet. You give me Asherons Call or Everquest with Cryengine 3 and maybe Oculus Rift support and I am in heaven. That is all many of us ever wanted a decade ago. Just to escape even farther into a fantasy vitual world. Recent games are so easy and so streamlined that there is no challenge, no sense of adventure, no emotional attachment, no incentive and certainly no immersion. Just a blitz to max level and start raiding "end game". Throw on top of that graphics that are going backwards and its impossible to forget that you are playing a video game. For those that like those types of games this is a great time, there have been a ton of casual friendly "video game" MMOs in recent years. I dont feel you are wrong for wanting that game. People are allowed to have different tastes. Some of us simply want something else. And we will continue to want for it until someone actually makes it.
Loss? Are you nuts? Is everything alright with you? What "Loss" has to do with "Hardcore gameplay"?
First of all these mmos in the past were niche games at best. It was a time when Internet connection was something new where games development on the PC was also a niche kind of thing. How "Loss" represent of dangerous situation if everyone can die? Right now you can go play Runescape. Farm everything as much as possible and lose everything in PvP areas. So much fun.
Eve has nothing to do with loss. Eve is first of all Space Simulation MMORPG where gameplay supports your loss for a reason. you grind a lot of resources and do a lot of things that will upgrade your ship and gameplay overall. Game design supports it very well for a R.E.A.S.O.N .
Thank god that SOE developers are smart enough to do their own thing and do not please niche crowd that don't know how to make decent raid group and be professionals like in WoW's raid system where Real people compete against each other not just for "cyber loss" but for Real money such as Exorsus, Method, Blood Legion guilds and etc. WoW to this day has the biggest and most loyal community that to this day will come at Blizzcon at 8-9 november and there will be a ton of discussions about Lore, gameplay, community and "Fe-e-e-e-e-e~e~e~elings!111"
If you want to play old games such as Everquest I or II. You can do it right now. They are alive and have it's own dedicated niche community.
I want on the other hand good fantasy like MMORPG with great new innovative features such as voxel destruction, building, raids, dungoens, craft, great heroic movement system, character's SO emote thing, good lore and art style that has nothing to do with brown-gritty-Call Of duty like stuff and of course I want GREAT GAMEPLAY that supports all these features and not some stupid "Loss thing" that won't somehow upgrade gameplay.
and I'm going to get that next year and This Winter I'm going to get fantastic new MMO with innovative building tools. Exciting times.
This kind of seems all over the place, WoW sounds like some new release in your post, and EQ2 sounds like it came out when UO did, since it is a 'old game'. You do realize they released pretty close to the same time, right?
WoW, biggest community? Sorry, but it isn't, and as for loyalty, they have gone from over 12 million to about 7.5 in the last few years, that is about a 40% drop. They are still doing great by all standards, but by WoW standards it is showing it's age and is now also a 'old game'. Blizzcon isn't going to change this, as they have it every year. The redo of Titan, or a super makeover of WoW (which I doubt, time/money would be better spent on what they hope will be a new mmo with the success of WoW) is what they need.
Loss? Are you nuts? Is everything alright with you? What "Loss" has to do with "Hardcore gameplay"?
First of all these mmos in the past were niche games at best. It was a time when Internet connection was something new where games development on the PC was also a niche kind of thing. How "Loss" represent of dangerous situation if everyone can die? Right now you can go play Runescape. Farm everything as much as possible and lose everything in PvP areas. So much fun.
Eve has nothing to do with loss. Eve is first of all Space Simulation MMORPG where gameplay supports your loss for a reason. you grind a lot of resources and do a lot of things that will upgrade your ship and gameplay overall. Game design supports it very well for a R.E.A.S.O.N .
Thank god that SOE developers are smart enough to do their own thing and do not please niche crowd that don't know how to make decent raid group and be professionals like in WoW's raid system where Real people compete against each other not just for "cyber loss" but for Real money such as Exorsus, Method, Blood Legion guilds and etc. WoW to this day has the biggest and most loyal community that to this day will come at Blizzcon at 8-9 november and there will be a ton of discussions about Lore, gameplay, community and "Fe-e-e-e-e-e~e~e~elings!111"
If you want to play old games such as Everquest I or II. You can do it right now. They are alive and have it's own dedicated niche community.
I want on the other hand good fantasy like MMORPG with great new innovative features such as voxel destruction, building, raids, dungoens, craft, great heroic movement system, character's SO emote thing, good lore and art style that has nothing to do with brown-gritty-Call Of duty like stuff and of course I want GREAT GAMEPLAY that supports all these features and not some stupid "Loss thing" that won't somehow upgrade gameplay.
and I'm going to get that next year and This Winter I'm going to get fantastic new MMO with innovative building tools. Exciting times.
This kind of seems all over the place, WoW sounds like some new release in your post, and EQ2 sounds like it came out when UO did, since it is a 'old game'. You do realize they released pretty close to the same time, right?
WoW, biggest community? Sorry, but it isn't, and as for loyalty, they have gone from over 12 million to about 7.5 in the last few years, that is about a 40% drop. They are still doing great by all standards, but by WoW standards it is showing it's age and is now also a 'old game'. Blizzcon isn't going to change this, as they have it every year. The redo of Titan, or a super makeover of WoW (which I doubt, time/money would be better spent on what they hope will be a new mmo with the success of WoW) is what they need.
WoW for a FACT has the biggest community in MMORPG genre to date. Prove me wrong please. Yes, they have gone from 12 to 7.5 and still to this date they are the biggest mmo. They can lose another 30% and will still be the biggest MMO on the market. Period. With the biggest community. With the biggest forum.
and no, it is not old. Each time they make expansion they remake their old mechanics very well and improve visuals up to Direct X11. When EQ2 came out, everyone thought that they will kill WoW with fire but right now EQ2 looks are much worse and mechanics are worse then in the game that is almost 10 years. EQII is now FTP and it is not close to WoW numbers... I doubt that EQ2 have more then 400K players at all in it's F2P state.
And don't forget that Blizzard can easily go F2P model that will destroy any F2P MMO project again.
That's why SOE with EQN changed the art style and started EXPERIMENTING (finally) with new gameplay mechanics. That's awesome. That''s what original EQ was about. It was about new experiences.
WoW for a FACT has the biggest community in MMORPG genre to date.
That's why SOE with EQN changed the art style and started EXPERIMENTING (finally) with new gameplay mechanics. That's awesome. That''s what original EQ was about. It was about new experiences.
WoW is a good game and certainly has the largest community to date. But sadly it is so homogenized, streamlined, hand holding, mass marketed that is feels like the MMO version of McDonalds. The game is so shallow that at times it feels like it plays itself and that I am just there to watch, it feels like some kind of Adventurer's DayCare. The game is so focus on fun and guaranteed success that it removes the challenge that the "old school" games had.
But there is still hope... Given all the interviews and recent round table polls it looks like the EQN DEVs are reviewing a bunch of options for the game and interestingly they have asked for feedback on a bunch of hardcore elements from back in the old days like...
Death Penaltied ( 60%+ want at least XP debt, deleveling and equipment damage/loss)
Significant Travel times ( 90% want limited teleporting thorough Major cities only or specialized class skills)
Contested Content ( 76%+ want some Contest content to be part of the game. World Bosses, camped spawns,etc..)
So beyond the new tech like voxel destruction it looks like they are seriously considering "old school" game mechanics along with the new gameplay mechanics. It may not give us old timers everything we want but at least it better than the options we have today with WoW and it's gazillion clones.
I recently posted in another thread that I thought EQN will be more of the same and just another theme park with no real innovation. I received this private message:
Originally posted by grimgryphon Clouded judgment? I'd say so.I recently posted in another thread that I thought EQN will be more of the same and just another theme park with no real innovation. I received this private message:
The private message certainly was uncalled for but he did have a point. Your opinion makes no sense at all unless everything they said is a lie. I guess that could be true but I won't just assume it is.
The private message certainly was uncalled for but he did have a point. Your opinion makes no sense at all unless everything they said is a lie. I guess that could be true but I won't just assume it is.
At the very least we know EQN will have voxels you build and destroy, procedurally generated content and something to do with Storybricks. Not sure how one takes this information and concludes EQN is a typical theme park.
Sure Smed is a liar and SOE played its part in destroying SWG. I'm not going to skip on an awesome product just because I hold a grudge.
If Wow is considered to be shallow, can someone explain to me what makes EQ1 a deeper gaming experience. Cause to me EQ doesn't seem to be more difficult than Wow. I really don't see how people can call wow shallow but consider EQ to have more depth?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by fivoroth If Wow is considered to be shallow, can someone explain to me what makes EQ1 a deeper gaming experience. Cause to me EQ doesn't seem to be more difficult than Wow. I really don't see how people can call wow shallow but consider EQ to have more depth?
Two reasons:
1. Role-colored glasses
2. Adopting the "I want to believe" mindset from The X Files
In fact, it's been scientifically proven that if you wear role-colored glasses while watching The X Files, your brain will turn to mush.
Two reasons:1. Role-colored glasses2. Adopting the "I want to believe" mindset from The X FilesIn fact, it's been scientifically proven that if you wear role-colored glasses while watching The X Files, your brain will turn to mush.
Haha, I'll have to try that sometime. If I have P99 running at the same time my head might explode!
I recently posted in another thread that I thought EQN will be more of the same and just another theme park with no real innovation. I received this private message:
I'll shoot you with a water gun mate.
Seriously though that is extremely wrong for who ever PM'd you.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by fivoroth If Wow is considered to be shallow, can someone explain to me what makes EQ1 a deeper gaming experience. Cause to me EQ doesn't seem to be more difficult than Wow. I really don't see how people can call wow shallow but consider EQ to have more depth?
From my own personal experience after playing both games for a number of years...
WoW played well and was a good game but it felt shallow because it was fast and easy to progress, no serious time commitment, there was no danger, no risk, no penalty for dying. There were very few requirements for a player to successfully build a max level character and farm tokens for his welfare Epic gear set.
Everquest certainly has the benefit of nostalgia and many could reminisce through rose colored glasses but there is not denying...
EQ required a significant time investment was was fast or easy. 1000+ hours with a good group. Average players would take about 1 year to hit 50th level.
EQ was a dangerous game, you could easily get killed if you weren't paying attention; patrolling monsters, respawns, high level monsters in low level areas, no mob leashing, mob agro, trains, difficult dungeons with tons of respawning and overwhelming monsters.
You risked your gear when adventuring, if you got in over your head and died in a bad place you could simply not be able to retrieve your corpse.
You risked your character when you adventured, when you died you lost XP which could represent hours of hard play time, also you could lose levels which was a huge set back.
You really needed to work with other players to be the most successful, grouping was almost a requirement which required that players learnt to be part of a team and it also meant that if you pissed everyone off then you were stuck solo'ing with a greater risk of dying and losing everything.
I recently posted in another thread that I thought EQN will be more of the same and just another theme park with no real innovation. I received this private message:
Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected. I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers. I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.
EQN is nothing at all like the origional EQ and that is very very clear by what the devs are doing with it.
I loved the origional EQ, but the main reason I am looking forward to EQN is becasue of the great job SOE have done with Planetside 2. After gonig through early beta with PS2 and seeing how the devs interacted with the community it gave me new hope that SOE can once again produce a really good MMORPG and hopefully this time not mess it up like they did with SWG.
anyway that remains to be seen.. its just a waiting game for me now, i dont get hyped about any games really I just wait and play them.
There are so many uninspired MMO games flooding the market these days, spilling out terminology like "game mechanics" "sandbox" "PVP" as if they're checks in the box you just mark along the way...then fill in the cracks with a few quick ideas to make it their own. They slap "EverQuest" on the next game they churn out so that it can be identified in the massive ocean of games. They didn't even bother to give it a real name...EverQuest Next. Like Pepsi Next, or AT&T Next. Forget originality, or the fact that people have played in this world for over a decade...
Looking at videos of this game, it appears that there is no way this will invoke the feeling of nostalgia in me. At most it will bring back memories of playing games like Spyro on the original PlayStation.
Of course EQ nostalgia plays a role whenever fans think back on the early days, but there has also been a fundamental shift in design philosophy which many veteran players resent. Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world.; but mmorpgs today eschew design decisions that make the experience feel like a simulation and instead opt for decisions which make the experience feel more like a mere game.
For example, EQNext is going to have fast travel available to every player whereas in the original EQ only certain spell casting classes had the ability to port. If you wanted to get somewhere you either had to hoof it through dangerous territory or you had to find a spellcaster and pony up some money. While this was oftentimes a real pain, it created all sorts of interesting player interactions and it lent a sense of realistic distance to the environment.
EQNext is going with a decision that makes travel far more convenient, but this convenience undermines the authenticity of the game world. When the primary aim of the developer is to make a game rather than a fantasy world simulation, it becomes more difficult to create a sense of deep immersion because players are repeatedly subjected to design decisions which make them more important than the environment.
Of course EQ nostalgia plays a role whenever fans think back on the early days, but there has also been a fundamental shift in design philosophy which many veteran players resent. Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world.; but mmorpgs today eschew design decisions that make the experience feel like a simulation and instead opt for decisions which make the experience feel more like a mere game.
For example, EQNext is going to have fast travel available to every player whereas in the original EQ only certain spell casting classes had the ability to port. If you wanted to get somewhere you either had to hoof it through dangerous territory or you had to find a spellcaster and pony up some money. While this was oftentimes a real pain, it created all sorts of interesting player interactions and it lent a sense of realistic distance to the environment.
EQNext is going with a decision that makes travel far more convenient, but this convenience undermines the authenticity of the game world. When the primary aim of the developer is to make a game rather than a fantasy world simulation, it becomes more difficult to create a sense of deep immersion because players are repeatedly subjected to design decisions which make them more important than the environment.
Whatever happened to "You're in our world now"?
Couldn't have said it better myself. My post would of been laced with more bitterness and offensive statements as well.
As far as whatever happened to "you're in our world now"
You're still in their world, its just a world where they have designed the game to milk you for every red cent you have. Its not a world of artistic inspiration, of gaming joy and hapiness.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I am a fan of EQ and always will be, EQ2 was junk . MMORPGs nowadays aren't . They are simple rushes to end game that is boring repeats . I got really excited when I first saw an advert for EQN as they promised a great deal BUT each video an announcement since has watered it down .
Real death penalty
NON quest orientated
No fast travel
Distinct Classes
Distinct Races
Hell levels .. ( well maybe )
LONG term play ie not possible to rush / PL
IE eq with updated engine /graphics -
All MMORPGS are the same nowadays and they miss the real gaming experience of EQ - even the ones that were a little different like LOTRO have now been dragged into the simple boring mechanics of the modern games . Its a pity , SOE had a chance to grab a serious section of the market and it looks like they are !£^£!$^ing it against the wall.
Comments
It is just you. Almost nobody who has followed this game expects it to be anything like original EQ.
This kind of seems all over the place, WoW sounds like some new release in your post, and EQ2 sounds like it came out when UO did, since it is a 'old game'. You do realize they released pretty close to the same time, right?
WoW, biggest community? Sorry, but it isn't, and as for loyalty, they have gone from over 12 million to about 7.5 in the last few years, that is about a 40% drop. They are still doing great by all standards, but by WoW standards it is showing it's age and is now also a 'old game'. Blizzcon isn't going to change this, as they have it every year. The redo of Titan, or a super makeover of WoW (which I doubt, time/money would be better spent on what they hope will be a new mmo with the success of WoW) is what they need.
WoW for a FACT has the biggest community in MMORPG genre to date. Prove me wrong please. Yes, they have gone from 12 to 7.5 and still to this date they are the biggest mmo. They can lose another 30% and will still be the biggest MMO on the market. Period. With the biggest community. With the biggest forum.
and no, it is not old. Each time they make expansion they remake their old mechanics very well and improve visuals up to Direct X11. When EQ2 came out, everyone thought that they will kill WoW with fire but right now EQ2 looks are much worse and mechanics are worse then in the game that is almost 10 years. EQII is now FTP and it is not close to WoW numbers... I doubt that EQ2 have more then 400K players at all in it's F2P state.
And don't forget that Blizzard can easily go F2P model that will destroy any F2P MMO project again.
That's why SOE with EQN changed the art style and started EXPERIMENTING (finally) with new gameplay mechanics. That's awesome. That''s what original EQ was about. It was about new experiences.
WoW is a good game and certainly has the largest community to date. But sadly it is so homogenized, streamlined, hand holding, mass marketed that is feels like the MMO version of McDonalds. The game is so shallow that at times it feels like it plays itself and that I am just there to watch, it feels like some kind of Adventurer's DayCare. The game is so focus on fun and guaranteed success that it removes the challenge that the "old school" games had.
But there is still hope... Given all the interviews and recent round table polls it looks like the EQN DEVs are reviewing a bunch of options for the game and interestingly they have asked for feedback on a bunch of hardcore elements from back in the old days like...
Death Penaltied ( 60%+ want at least XP debt, deleveling and equipment damage/loss)
Significant Travel times ( 90% want limited teleporting thorough Major cities only or specialized class skills)
Contested Content ( 76%+ want some Contest content to be part of the game. World Bosses, camped spawns,etc..)
So beyond the new tech like voxel destruction it looks like they are seriously considering "old school" game mechanics along with the new gameplay mechanics. It may not give us old timers everything we want but at least it better than the options we have today with WoW and it's gazillion clones.
Clouded judgment? I'd say so.
I recently posted in another thread that I thought EQN will be more of the same and just another theme park with no real innovation. I received this private message:
The private message certainly was uncalled for but he did have a point. Your opinion makes no sense at all unless everything they said is a lie. I guess that could be true but I won't just assume it is.
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
Yup. Pretty much sums up MMO players.
It's SOE and John Smedley. Of course it's a lie.
At the very least we know EQN will have voxels you build and destroy, procedurally generated content and something to do with Storybricks. Not sure how one takes this information and concludes EQN is a typical theme park.
Sure Smed is a liar and SOE played its part in destroying SWG. I'm not going to skip on an awesome product just because I hold a grudge.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Two reasons:
1. Role-colored glasses
2. Adopting the "I want to believe" mindset from The X Files
In fact, it's been scientifically proven that if you wear role-colored glasses while watching The X Files, your brain will turn to mush.
oh this is hilarious! spot on
Two reasons: 1. Role-colored glasses 2. Adopting the "I want to believe" mindset from The X Files In fact, it's been scientifically proven that if you wear role-colored glasses while watching The X Files, your brain will turn to mush.
Haha, I'll have to try that sometime. If I have P99 running at the same time my head might explode!
I'll shoot you with a water gun mate.
Seriously though that is extremely wrong for who ever PM'd you.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
From my own personal experience after playing both games for a number of years...
WoW played well and was a good game but it felt shallow because it was fast and easy to progress, no serious time commitment, there was no danger, no risk, no penalty for dying. There were very few requirements for a player to successfully build a max level character and farm tokens for his welfare Epic gear set.
Everquest certainly has the benefit of nostalgia and many could reminisce through rose colored glasses but there is not denying...
EQ required a significant time investment was was fast or easy. 1000+ hours with a good group. Average players would take about 1 year to hit 50th level.
EQ was a dangerous game, you could easily get killed if you weren't paying attention; patrolling monsters, respawns, high level monsters in low level areas, no mob leashing, mob agro, trains, difficult dungeons with tons of respawning and overwhelming monsters.
Why have you blocked out the animals name?
EQN is nothing at all like the origional EQ and that is very very clear by what the devs are doing with it.
I loved the origional EQ, but the main reason I am looking forward to EQN is becasue of the great job SOE have done with Planetside 2. After gonig through early beta with PS2 and seeing how the devs interacted with the community it gave me new hope that SOE can once again produce a really good MMORPG and hopefully this time not mess it up like they did with SWG.
anyway that remains to be seen.. its just a waiting game for me now, i dont get hyped about any games really I just wait and play them.
There are so many uninspired MMO games flooding the market these days, spilling out terminology like "game mechanics" "sandbox" "PVP" as if they're checks in the box you just mark along the way...then fill in the cracks with a few quick ideas to make it their own. They slap "EverQuest" on the next game they churn out so that it can be identified in the massive ocean of games. They didn't even bother to give it a real name...EverQuest Next. Like Pepsi Next, or AT&T Next. Forget originality, or the fact that people have played in this world for over a decade...
Looking at videos of this game, it appears that there is no way this will invoke the feeling of nostalgia in me. At most it will bring back memories of playing games like Spyro on the original PlayStation.
Of course EQ nostalgia plays a role whenever fans think back on the early days, but there has also been a fundamental shift in design philosophy which many veteran players resent. Everquest felt like a simulation of a fantasy world.; but mmorpgs today eschew design decisions that make the experience feel like a simulation and instead opt for decisions which make the experience feel more like a mere game.
For example, EQNext is going to have fast travel available to every player whereas in the original EQ only certain spell casting classes had the ability to port. If you wanted to get somewhere you either had to hoof it through dangerous territory or you had to find a spellcaster and pony up some money. While this was oftentimes a real pain, it created all sorts of interesting player interactions and it lent a sense of realistic distance to the environment.
EQNext is going with a decision that makes travel far more convenient, but this convenience undermines the authenticity of the game world. When the primary aim of the developer is to make a game rather than a fantasy world simulation, it becomes more difficult to create a sense of deep immersion because players are repeatedly subjected to design decisions which make them more important than the environment.
Whatever happened to "You're in our world now"?
Couldn't have said it better myself. My post would of been laced with more bitterness and offensive statements as well.
As far as whatever happened to "you're in our world now"
You're still in their world, its just a world where they have designed the game to milk you for every red cent you have. Its not a world of artistic inspiration, of gaming joy and hapiness.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I am a fan of EQ and always will be, EQ2 was junk . MMORPGs nowadays aren't . They are simple rushes to end game that is boring repeats . I got really excited when I first saw an advert for EQN as they promised a great deal BUT each video an announcement since has watered it down .
Real death penalty
NON quest orientated
No fast travel
Distinct Classes
Distinct Races
Hell levels .. ( well maybe
)
LONG term play ie not possible to rush / PL
IE eq with updated engine /graphics -
All MMORPGS are the same nowadays and they miss the real gaming experience of EQ - even the ones that were a little different like LOTRO have now been dragged into the simple boring mechanics of the modern games . Its a pity , SOE had a chance to grab a serious section of the market and it looks like they are !£^£!$^ing it against the wall.
Ah well back to Project 1999