Originally posted by Metrobius Azoth: Thats a lost f features you want. I want a list of things about old sxhool eq that you would want to change, or at least be willing accept changes in.
You are looking for compromises while I want upgrades. I liked EQ for what it was and would love a true successor to it. I am not saying that I wouldn't like another game, I played pretty much every mmo that came out in the last 15 years, my top 2 are still UO and EQ, for very different reasons.
I might like EQN for the game it will be, but from what we know it certainly will not be a true successor to EQ.
You still don't understand my question. I'm not asking for compromises. I am asking you to look back at the feature set of EQ as it launched and tell me what you would agree should be updated. Graphics? Mob AI? Combat?
I understand that harcore features are immersive to you. I played UO at launch and loved it. I loved the fact that every play session, I was at risk of losing any profit I had accrued at any moment if I got careless. I almost never used runes to travel because I loved to explore, even if I knew I was at risk of being killed and looted by a group of reds.
There are some features missing from your list that I would love to see in EQN, but I know I won't, like mobs looting player corpses, thieving skills, real treasure hunting.
I guess most of all, I just want to know if you can acknowledge any features aside from graphics that need improvement over the original EQ.
I have no idea what you are trying to make me say... I think I made it pretty clear. I want an upgraded EQ, that means everything it was but better.
- better graphics
EQN will have better graphics
- bigger and more interactive world
not sure if it will be bigger, but how more ineractive can a game be that has terraforming, making actual interacting with the world and changing it possible. And changing the world by decisions you and other made. sorry the orcs are gone twenty adventurer drove them away last week.
- better crafting
have to see what comes. but so far it sounds not bad
- bigger dungeons
have to see what comes here too. But randomly created dungeons sounds good so far
- more skills and spells
12 skills per class for 40+ Classes, makes 480+ skills. not satisfied?
- could even add an arc story for each class
why an arc story for a class that is for every one the same. instead you get a personal story arc based on your decisions, and rally calls that can be missed.
Improving mob AI is just a marketing gimmick.
You still believe this?
I was looking for an EQ successor, EQN won't fill that need. I am also looking for an UO successor which Trial of Ascension might be, will have to keep my eyes on that one.
Well EQN improves all what you wanted or did i missed the point?
People become attached to something they have invested 100's of hours into, it doesn't matter how bad it is.
I came in pretty late to the MMO scene and i went back through all the "classics" like EQ,EQ2,Vanguard etc and besides the open nature of the games...........they really blow by today's gaming standards.
The only reason they were open in first place is because devs were too lazy to focus the game into something that resembles a coherent experience.
Everyone wants the same basic thing. It's the feeling they had when playing original EQ or SWG or "input your first MMO". The feeling of NEW, undiscovered, deep, engaging and rewarding.
To answer the OP, no, their judgement isn't being "clouded" by anything. They, including myself, remember that amazing feeling of being a part of something amazing and want it back.
People become attached to something they have invested 100's of hours into, it doesn't matter how bad it is.
I came in pretty late to the MMO scene and i went back through all the "classics" like EQ,EQ2,Vanguard etc and besides the open nature of the games...........they really blow by today's gaming standards.
The only reason they were open in first place is because devs were too lazy to focus the game into something that resembles a coherent experience.
Makes as much sense as driving a 50s car and complaining that by todays standards it's missing a lot of features.
Everyone wants the same basic thing. It's the feeling they had when playing original EQ or SWG or "input your first MMO". The feeling of NEW, undiscovered, deep, engaging and rewarding.
To answer the OP, no, their judgement isn't being "clouded" by anything. They, including myself, remember that amazing feeling of being a part of something amazing and want it back.
That's where the cloudiness comes in though... you want that feeling back but the stark reality is you'll never get it back. You didn't get that feeling because EQ was some amazing, well designed game. You got that feeling because it wasn't like anything you had experienced before.
You may think EQN will fail as an EQ successor but to see what combination of features they'll have and, if they pull it off, say it will fail is a bit disingenuous.
You may want it to fail, but a smoothed out Minecraft with an open class system, adaptable NPCs and content that the players fight for/build up/tear down? Sorry brotha, it will, at the very least, be a mild success. I imagine imagine it will be much more than that and Landmark will be a big hit before EQN.
With how much money they're putting into this, even a mild success is a failure.
SWTOR was very successful by modern MMO standards, until you account for post release sub rates and the overall cost of development.
I see what 'cha did there. In a non opinionated response it is possible that the development threshold will not be met, but what is that amount? I don't know and they did use resources from previous iterations in the final EQN so it would be hard to gage. SWTOR on the other hand used the development cost to drum up publicity and was therefore very open about it. The "failure" surrounding SWTOR also was that the final settled numbers right after the F2P conversion were 1/2 of the initial preorders for the game.
Point being that the real sucess or failure will be how good and popular the game itself is over time. If EQN is a good MMO then over time they will have no problem making up the money they have spent. That's supposed to be the balance of taking years to develop them as opposed to a SP game.
Time will tell but saying you're certain it will be a failure is far more of a guess than it not being a failure because of the proposed features and popularity of games already having those features.
Everyone wants the same basic thing. It's the feeling they had when playing original EQ or SWG or "input your first MMO". The feeling of NEW, undiscovered, deep, engaging and rewarding.
To answer the OP, no, their judgement isn't being "clouded" by anything. They, including myself, remember that amazing feeling of being a part of something amazing and want it back.
That's where the cloudiness comes in though... you want that feeling back but the stark reality is you'll never get it back. You didn't get that feeling because EQ was some amazing, well designed game. You got that feeling because it wasn't like anything you had experienced before.
You both seem to be saying the same thing, and something which I hope describes EQN. The hope being that it will be something new that we haven't already played. Will it? Who knows but the picture they are painting says it could and is possible with what they have laid out. It may be a new experience and people will still get the same feeling as any other MMO, which can't be controlled. If the features listed in EQN aren't something new, what game has the same features? Not a combination of MMOs/games but in one package.
Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected. I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers. I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.
Your so right. But you will just have to wait and see when the game comes out. Also think about how just about every new game here gets pumped up before its even released. I don't ever buy into fanboy hype on any game on this site or any site. The Devs promise the world and give little with mmo's these days. All the talk around this game from them could change any minute.
I never liked EQ myself. Tried it then ran back to UO at a full sprint. I think it has some good concepts but I felt UO had a better character design philosophy. Personally I am hoping for UO/EQ mix up. Where I think EQ went off the rails is they made it to much of a grind without enough smaller milestones to reach. Character growth can be challenging without being a mind numbing grind between levels.
To the point of the thread there are a lot of vocal people that think EQ was the end all be all for mmo design. I wouldn't say they are being blinded by nostalgia. I think this is what they really like. Whether EQN feels they are enough to build EQN around or not time will tell.
Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected. I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers. I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.
I'm late to the conversation but I would like you to clarify. Are you saying that EQ was bad and unworthy of nostalgia? Are you saying the features in the old game are inferior to potential new features of the new game? I would like to better understand your bias.
How is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.
Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.
In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.
Why is this considered a bad thing?
Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.
and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.
( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that? The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)
As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.
Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected. I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers. I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.
I'm late to the conversation but I would like you to clarify. Are you saying that EQ was bad and unworthy of nostalgia? Are you saying the features in the old game are inferior to potential new features of the new game? I would like to better understand your bias.
Good question. Actually it has nothing to do with the quality of EQ. My point is that the old EQ players are lobbying for EQN to be a resurrected, modernized version of the original game because they have such fond memories of it, but that's not because of the game design. It's because it was something brand new that they never experienced before. So they are letting the nostalgia of EQ convince them that to get that old feeling back, EQN must follow the same game design. In reality, the opposite is true... in order to experience the same feeling that EQ gave them, EQN will have to be something completely new that they've never experienced before. Taking the old EQ design and dropping it into a game with a better engine/graphics/world won't give them what they are looking for.
Originally posted by FinalFikus Originally posted by pierthOriginally posted by MaelzraelOriginally posted by pierthHow is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.
Funny thing is if they did this there would be people saying how stupid it is to do stuff from 10-15 years ago and how there's nothing original about any of them. People want what they can't have typically. Or perhaps we don't even know what we want until it falls into our lap. I'd agree with both sentiments- you could give players the exact features they ask for and if it isn't set up a certain way they'll still complain. On top of this I find there are quite a few people that like to talk/complain/reminisce about MMORPGs here more than they enjoy actually playing them so it's pretty moot.If you look at the only common factor among all those games of old that people adore you can 'understand' what people are saying.
If you don't bother you end up repeating what others have said before you, and were possibly wrong.
Are you going to look? Or are you just complaining about people because secretly, you really hate all human life as a hobby?
And what do you perceive that common factor to be?
Originally posted by Gardavsshade Originally posted by pierthHow is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.
Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.
In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.
Why is this considered a bad thing?
Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.
and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.
( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that? The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)
As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.
I didn't claim it was a bad thing. The OP has been registered here since '05 and even cursory glances at these boards any time a new MMO is being discussed (particularly when there is little verified info available) reflect that a lot of people just want an updated version of the games I named above, which is why I don't quite understand the point of the original post.
It seems akin to going outdoors, pointing up and asking if the sky appears a bit blue today. The answer: duh.
As for the sentiments in the thread about trying to get that feeling back from their first MMO experience- it's not just the game itself that created that experience and the older that game/experience was the more impossible it will be to get it back.
All I can say is that for me, yes, my EQ nostalgia is clouding my outlook on EQN.
I won't be revisiting the Norrath I once knew (similarly why I had trouble getting into EQ2) and had years of fun in. The changes they are making (and I agree EQ needs some changes) are not what I would like to see in the game.
SOE would have done MUCH better, in my opinion, not connecting their new game to EverQuest in any way, shape, or form. Instead, they wanted to rope in their old playerbase and it looks like they are giving them an MMO nothing like the MMORPG that the old players had fun with. It is obvious to me, that they instead want to draw in a greater number of new players, not the old ones. This is fine. I have no qualms with that. I just think is quite disingenuous of them to title it "EQ:Next."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
...which is why I don't quite understand the point of the original post.
It seems akin to going outdoors, pointing up and asking if the sky appears a bit blue today. The answer: duh.
I'm just trying to get people who loved EQ to think about what they are looking for in EQN, and if they truly believe that trying to make EQN into a modernized version of EQ would even be something they'd play today. Speaking for myself, I would give almost anything to return to those glory days that I remember so fondly, but you couldn't pay me to play a game that follows the same game design now.
Peoples that think making and old game with a fresh design is the way to go, don't realize how much the nostalgia is clouding their view.
I played not long ago a game i played over 15 years ago the last time.
My memories of the game were "its a great game, why didn't they remaked it?"
But after playing it again,it was more like"well some nice things, but overall meh
And that has two reasons. In my Memory it was better then it really was, cause i didnt played it for so long my memroy got foggy about the nasty things and only remained the good ones. Secondly, over the last 15 years i evolved as a player through many games and have now other views on them,then 15 years ago.
So all the people who liked their games back then wouldn't like it today, if it would be sold to them as a new one
So they are letting the nostalgia of EQ convince them that to get that old feeling back, EQN must follow the same game design. In reality, the opposite is true... in order to experience the same feeling that EQ gave them, EQN will have to be something completely new that they've never experienced before. Taking the old EQ design and dropping it into a game with a better engine/graphics/world won't give them what they are looking for.
BOOM! There it is! Many people just don't know the psychology behind why they want the things that they want. They truly want is novelty but ask for the opposite! They point to EQ as the thing that gave them that sense of novelty and say "Give me more of that!" sorry but it doesn't work that way. How many times have we played a new mmo and said to ourselves "oh this crap again..."?
I think people are looking at this too broadly. Yes we want something very different. But at the same time we want some of the concepts that made EQ better than what we have now. We want an open world where we aren't crammed into little 6 man boxes constantly. We want a game that actually has some challenge to it. We want a game that allows character growth through more than just items at max level. We want a world where our actions can have some sort of consequences.
I don't think people want a carbon copy of EQ updated to the present. We've already been told what EQ Next is going to be from the grand scheme of things and it is something completely new which is exciting. How they choose to flesh out that grand scheme is going to make or break the game. Do they dumb everything down and cut out any sense of competition like new games or do they go more old school with.
I don't care if EQN is some holy rebirth of EQ, I just wanted a game that has the design elements that I enjoyed in previous MMOs :
Grouping is a core element of the game, solo play may exist but grouping is the norm.
Slow character development, where it take more than a month to hit the "end".
Less tiering of gear, let us find good gear a low level that we can use effectively for most of your character leveling life. Getting gear that you casually toss away in a couple days isn't very satisfying.
Combat that isn't over in 4 seconds. Open world monsters that are a challenge and require other players helps to defeat.
Death penalties that hurt, maybe xp loss, item loss, corpse run, whatever. Something where dying means more than a 30 second respawn.
Danger in the world, patrolling monsters that can overwhelm you, wide level ranges of monsters in a zone to keep your toes and watching your surroundings... Something where you have to be engaged and pay attention instead of 3 button spamming your way to 50th level through countless under powered monsters while watching TV.
EQ nostalgia could be clouding my view, but what about my Meridan 59 nostalgia, my UO nostalgia, my AC nostalgia, my DAOC nostalgia, my Shadowbane nostalgia, my EQ2 nostalgia.
What I want isn't tied to just EQ, the game elements are found across multiple games spread out over 8-10 years so it would be a bit short sighted to write it off as delusional nostalgia.
No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game. Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used. If you can get over the graphics I think there are good chances that this game will satisfy many vets. As long as EQN is free of linear quest hubs and open world danger (be it PvP or PvE) and difficulty are there, I think most EQ vets would be happy.
I don't care if EQN is some holy rebirth of EQ, I just wanted a game that has the design elements that I enjoyed in previous MMOs :
Grouping is a core element of the game, solo play may exist but grouping is the norm.
Slow character development, where it take more than a month to hit the "end".
Less tiering of gear, let us find good gear a low level that we can use effectively for most of your character leveling life. Getting gear that you casually toss away in a couple days isn't very satisfying.
Combat that isn't over in 4 seconds. Open world monsters that are a challenge and require other players helps to defeat.
Death penalties that hurt, maybe xp loss, item loss, corpse run, whatever. Something where dying means more than a 30 second respawn.
Danger in the world, patrolling monsters that can overwhelm you, wide level ranges of monsters in a zone to keep your toes and watching your surroundings... Something where you have to be engaged and pay attention instead of 3 button spamming your way to 50th level through countless under powered monsters while watching TV.
EQ nostalgia could be clouding my view, but what about my Meridan 59 nostalgia, my UO nostalgia, my AC nostalgia, my DAOC nostalgia, my Shadowbane nostalgia, my EQ2 nostalgia.
What I want isn't tied to just EQ, the game elements are found across multiple games spread out over 8-10 years so it would be a bit short sighted to write it off as delusional nostalgia.
Agree, that's exactly how I feel. I loved all those games, minus eq2 that I never played after beta.
We are looking for core mechanics that made us love those worlds.
Originally posted by Mardukk No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game. Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used.
Originally posted by Mardukk No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game. Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used. If you can get over the graphics I think there are good chances that this game will satisfy many vets. As long as EQN is free of linear quest hubs and open world danger (be it PvP or PvE) and difficulty are there, I think most EQ vets would be happy.
How long do you guess before Norrath is one continent full of holes, just because millions of players can create them almost anywhere? Can you picture players just aiming attacks at random places on the ground and letting go? I sure can.
That is enough for me to make a judgement call on my own personal interest.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
you are right .. you missed the point
Of course it does.
People become attached to something they have invested 100's of hours into, it doesn't matter how bad it is.
I came in pretty late to the MMO scene and i went back through all the "classics" like EQ,EQ2,Vanguard etc and besides the open nature of the games...........they really blow by today's gaming standards.
The only reason they were open in first place is because devs were too lazy to focus the game into something that resembles a coherent experience.
I think you just nailed it.
Later EQ where it was all about grinding end game instanced content for gear was not fun.
I'm hoping its more like the former.
Makes as much sense as driving a 50s car and complaining that by todays standards it's missing a lot of features.
That's where the cloudiness comes in though... you want that feeling back but the stark reality is you'll never get it back. You didn't get that feeling because EQ was some amazing, well designed game. You got that feeling because it wasn't like anything you had experienced before.
I see what 'cha did there. In a non opinionated response it is possible that the development threshold will not be met, but what is that amount? I don't know and they did use resources from previous iterations in the final EQN so it would be hard to gage. SWTOR on the other hand used the development cost to drum up publicity and was therefore very open about it. The "failure" surrounding SWTOR also was that the final settled numbers right after the F2P conversion were 1/2 of the initial preorders for the game.
Point being that the real sucess or failure will be how good and popular the game itself is over time. If EQN is a good MMO then over time they will have no problem making up the money they have spent. That's supposed to be the balance of taking years to develop them as opposed to a SP game.
Time will tell but saying you're certain it will be a failure is far more of a guess than it not being a failure because of the proposed features and popularity of games already having those features.
You both seem to be saying the same thing, and something which I hope describes EQN. The hope being that it will be something new that we haven't already played. Will it? Who knows but the picture they are painting says it could and is possible with what they have laid out. It may be a new experience and people will still get the same feeling as any other MMO, which can't be controlled. If the features listed in EQN aren't something new, what game has the same features? Not a combination of MMOs/games but in one package.
Your so right. But you will just have to wait and see when the game comes out. Also think about how just about every new game here gets pumped up before its even released. I don't ever buy into fanboy hype on any game on this site or any site. The Devs promise the world and give little with mmo's these days. All the talk around this game from them could change any minute.
I never liked EQ myself. Tried it then ran back to UO at a full sprint. I think it has some good concepts but I felt UO had a better character design philosophy. Personally I am hoping for UO/EQ mix up. Where I think EQ went off the rails is they made it to much of a grind without enough smaller milestones to reach. Character growth can be challenging without being a mind numbing grind between levels.
To the point of the thread there are a lot of vocal people that think EQ was the end all be all for mmo design. I wouldn't say they are being blinded by nostalgia. I think this is what they really like. Whether EQN feels they are enough to build EQN around or not time will tell.
I'm late to the conversation but I would like you to clarify. Are you saying that EQ was bad and unworthy of nostalgia? Are you saying the features in the old game are inferior to potential new features of the new game? I would like to better understand your bias.
Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.
In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.
Why is this considered a bad thing?
Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.
and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.
( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that? The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)
As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.
Good question. Actually it has nothing to do with the quality of EQ. My point is that the old EQ players are lobbying for EQN to be a resurrected, modernized version of the original game because they have such fond memories of it, but that's not because of the game design. It's because it was something brand new that they never experienced before. So they are letting the nostalgia of EQ convince them that to get that old feeling back, EQN must follow the same game design. In reality, the opposite is true... in order to experience the same feeling that EQ gave them, EQN will have to be something completely new that they've never experienced before. Taking the old EQ design and dropping it into a game with a better engine/graphics/world won't give them what they are looking for.
I'd agree with both sentiments- you could give players the exact features they ask for and if it isn't set up a certain way they'll still complain. On top of this I find there are quite a few people that like to talk/complain/reminisce about MMORPGs here more than they enjoy actually playing them so it's pretty moot.
If you look at the only common factor among all those games of old that people adore you can 'understand' what people are saying.
If you don't bother you end up repeating what others have said before you, and were possibly wrong.
Are you going to look? Or are you just complaining about people because secretly, you really hate all human life as a hobby?
And what do you perceive that common factor to be?
Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.
Why is this considered a bad thing?
Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.
and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.
( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that? The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)
As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.
I didn't claim it was a bad thing. The OP has been registered here since '05 and even cursory glances at these boards any time a new MMO is being discussed (particularly when there is little verified info available) reflect that a lot of people just want an updated version of the games I named above, which is why I don't quite understand the point of the original post.
It seems akin to going outdoors, pointing up and asking if the sky appears a bit blue today. The answer: duh.
As for the sentiments in the thread about trying to get that feeling back from their first MMO experience- it's not just the game itself that created that experience and the older that game/experience was the more impossible it will be to get it back.
All I can say is that for me, yes, my EQ nostalgia is clouding my outlook on EQN.
I won't be revisiting the Norrath I once knew (similarly why I had trouble getting into EQ2) and had years of fun in. The changes they are making (and I agree EQ needs some changes) are not what I would like to see in the game.
SOE would have done MUCH better, in my opinion, not connecting their new game to EverQuest in any way, shape, or form. Instead, they wanted to rope in their old playerbase and it looks like they are giving them an MMO nothing like the MMORPG that the old players had fun with. It is obvious to me, that they instead want to draw in a greater number of new players, not the old ones. This is fine. I have no qualms with that. I just think is quite disingenuous of them to title it "EQ:Next."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm just trying to get people who loved EQ to think about what they are looking for in EQN, and if they truly believe that trying to make EQN into a modernized version of EQ would even be something they'd play today. Speaking for myself, I would give almost anything to return to those glory days that I remember so fondly, but you couldn't pay me to play a game that follows the same game design now.
Peoples that think making and old game with a fresh design is the way to go, don't realize how much the nostalgia is clouding their view.
I played not long ago a game i played over 15 years ago the last time.
My memories of the game were "its a great game, why didn't they remaked it?"
But after playing it again,it was more like"well some nice things, but overall meh
And that has two reasons. In my Memory it was better then it really was, cause i didnt played it for so long my memroy got foggy about the nasty things and only remained the good ones. Secondly, over the last 15 years i evolved as a player through many games and have now other views on them,then 15 years ago.
So all the people who liked their games back then wouldn't like it today, if it would be sold to them as a new one
BOOM! There it is! Many people just don't know the psychology behind why they want the things that they want. They truly want is novelty but ask for the opposite! They point to EQ as the thing that gave them that sense of novelty and say "Give me more of that!" sorry but it doesn't work that way. How many times have we played a new mmo and said to ourselves "oh this crap again..."?
I think people are looking at this too broadly. Yes we want something very different. But at the same time we want some of the concepts that made EQ better than what we have now. We want an open world where we aren't crammed into little 6 man boxes constantly. We want a game that actually has some challenge to it. We want a game that allows character growth through more than just items at max level. We want a world where our actions can have some sort of consequences.
I don't think people want a carbon copy of EQ updated to the present. We've already been told what EQ Next is going to be from the grand scheme of things and it is something completely new which is exciting. How they choose to flesh out that grand scheme is going to make or break the game. Do they dumb everything down and cut out any sense of competition like new games or do they go more old school with.
I don't care if EQN is some holy rebirth of EQ, I just wanted a game that has the design elements that I enjoyed in previous MMOs :
EQ nostalgia could be clouding my view, but what about my Meridan 59 nostalgia, my UO nostalgia, my AC nostalgia, my DAOC nostalgia, my Shadowbane nostalgia, my EQ2 nostalgia.
What I want isn't tied to just EQ, the game elements are found across multiple games spread out over 8-10 years so it would be a bit short sighted to write it off as delusional nostalgia.
Agree, that's exactly how I feel. I loved all those games, minus eq2 that I never played after beta.
We are looking for core mechanics that made us love those worlds.
agree
EQ2 fan sites
That is enough for me to make a judgement call on my own personal interest.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR