Ah, the mouse fling. A symbol of the superior gamer.
Well, that or a rabid squirrel is attacking whoever is at the computer.
EDIT: And Laser, I'm actually one of those nutty people that used wireless mice too for a long time. Got really fast at swapping the batteries in those things out of a frightful desperation to not die in the middle of a firefight.
Now I got my corded mouse with variable DPI and a sniper mode button.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
i own a ps3 and soon a ps4 as well. and i actually prefer the comfort of playing them better than I did on my desktop, which is a high end gaming computer as well.
as for communities, i think there are elitist jerks in both camps, but hey thats me.
One thing that bugs me though is some of you think that a person is inferior by playing on a console, well hate to burst your bubble, but that cant be farther from the truth. All my friends own consoles, gaming computers and make well over the average median wage .
in the end though, its the game not the platform that makes it worthwhile.
Yeah, that is what the genre needs. More casual MMOs which can be played with a gamepad and minimal communication because most console gamers dont use a keyboard...
In other words. Action based with minimal social interaction and fast to cap because most console gamers dont spend more than a month or two on any game.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.
Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.
There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.
Its all good.
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.
Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.
Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.
That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.
How about developer's code the game to allow both consoles and PC's to use all types of devices and let player's choose the one that they prefer.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.
Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.
There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.
Its all good.
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.
Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.
Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.
That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.
How about developer's code the game to allow both consoles and PC's to use all types of devices and let player's choose the one that they prefer.
Because that just does NOT work. Balance wise.
Take two people, ask them to dig a hole, one having a rake, the other a shovel.
Same thing with controller vs mouse. Mouse will always be superior in a 3D game. And console gamers just don't use mice in their vast majority. Result? A poorly balanced MMORPG, with part of the population asking to nerf all those playing with a mouse.
Better solution: separate the servers. Consoles and PCs. Most problems avoided, and everyone is happy.
The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.
Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.
People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.
I can do a rocket jump (targeting the floor) and then while flying target an opponent in a totally opposite direction above me instantly, without any delay, using a mouse. You just can't do that with a controller, you have delay.
Mouse reaction are just instant for a skilled user. Controllers can't be, by their very nature. They are designed for different gameplay. In any 3D game, a mouse is just vastly superior. Like a shovel is better to dig a hole than a rake.
I think the bigger question is not whether console is better or PC is better for mmo.
The bigger question is that isn't console already on it's way out? Does it still have a reason to exist?
With the advent of more powerful PDA phones and tablets that can do everything and even better graphics, and Android boxes that can easily be built with Android OS, why would still be worth the money for the console developer to still be making console?
Use other prebuilt OS and just make games and build boxes saves heaps more money.
I don't see proprietary OS consoles like PS4 or Xbox One lasting much longer... casual consoles like Wii? maybe, but even that can later on be replaced by easily doable Android boxes.
The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.
Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.
People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.
I can do a rocket jump (targeting the floor) and then while flying target an opponent in a totally opposite direction above me instantly, without any delay, using a mouse. You just can't do that with a controller, you have delay.
Mouse reaction are just instant for a skilled user. Controllers can't be, by their very nature. They are designed for different gameplay. In any 3D game, a mouse is just vastly superior. Like a shovel is better to dig a hole than a rake.
I think you will find that young people today are much more skilled with gamepads, mice and keyboards then you and I ever have been. Mine were pretty much born with them.
I find it astonishing how skilled my kids are with controller's, and they have had there own gaming PC's since they were 10 and 11 respectively.
I myself hate controllers, because quite frankly I suck with them.
Originally posted by Neo_ViperYeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.Its all good.
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.
Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.
Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.
That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.
So yeah lets ignore, 2D games, and 2.5D for that matter. Sidescrollers, platformers, fighting games, 3rd person hack n slash, bemani style, racing sims and sports games.
Then lets focus on games that were specifically developed for a mouse and keyboard.
Yeah your case is rock solid, bro.
You want to say FPS, RTS, traditional pc mmos, yeah you will get no argument here. But this whole all encompassing bs? [mod edit]
At the very least, console devs may bring some much needed professionalism to the genre. MMO devs are masters of bullshit, blowing a budget, and missing deadlines.
This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.
Originally posted by Rockniss Originally posted by FoomerangAt the very least, console devs may bring some much needed professionalism to the genre. MMO devs are masters of bullshit, blowing a budget, and missing deadlines.
This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.
Well I hope that doesn't happen. But if it does, at least we still have Nintendo haha
Originally posted by Deivos Originally posted by HatefullYou hate repeating yourself? Well don't then, I am not sure why you keep posting since you can't seem to make a point.I get the it is hearsay to YOU, I understand that, no need to explain it, what I am describing is something that happened to me directly, I am relating it you and I pointed out the fact that it was my experience to illuminate the fact that it is not just something I heard.So you can babble on about lord knows what you are trying to say, but it is irrelevant to me. I do not wish to share a server with console gamer's, because IN MY EXPERIENCE (see what I did there?) they are sub par in an MMO environment.Good bye.
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.
You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.
What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.
It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.
I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.
Ok...and? again, what is your bloody point? do you even know what we are discussing in this thread?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
As many can see by posts in every MMORPG forum whether current or future, PC gamers are all complaining and bored and have little hope for any MMORPG games. Why? They are burned out, they have been playing these games for 10-15+ years, many people put in 10+ hours a day every day for all that time too(as sick as that may seem, its common for an MMORPG gamer). So, its not the games that are bad, its the gamers that are just burned out.
Now comes along the PS4 and comes with it millions and millions of gamers that never have touched an MMORPG before as they play on consoles only many of them. The ones that have played MMORPGs probably have not been too "hardcore" into them because they play a lot on their PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. all those years.
DC Online, EQ Next, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online and many more will all be on the PS4. These games wil be something new, exciting and refreshing to the PS4 console crowd.
These games will be played on Big screen TVs and look awesome and play awesome as the PS4 while not as strong as a top gaming rig, will still play any current game at top settings and everyone will have the same hardware, nobody will be suffering from lag or crap settings while the guy next to him in game is on a better machine.
I really see the MMORPG genre growing and having a lot of excitement coming soon due to the infusion of console gamers and the games being played on the huge screens by a new group of players that are not going to be bored right away or come in burned out like most PC gamers are that join these games nowadays and complain from day 1.
I myself am a PC gamer for the most part over the past 5+ years, but I grew up on consoles and look forward to seeing the consoles join the MMO world and breathe life into a genre that PC gamers have pretty much given up on and taken for granted the last few years because of burn out.
Yeah whatever, oh Star Citizen on a console, I doubt it unless you come up with $25 mill from your spotty teenagers...Next they will be calling it PCSn5 Muhahahaha!!!!
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.
You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.
What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.
It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.
I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.
Ok...and? again, what is your bloody point? do you even know what we are discussing in this thread?
I refer to my first sentence.
And the thread is commenting on the PS4 as a MMO platform, the OP's commentary being a confusing mash about how upcoming titles have another chance at reigning in a broader crowd into the MMO genre via consoles.
Others commented on keeping console play separate due to personal or performance differences.
You made a claim about console play based on a single frame of reference, I gave counterpoint.
It's not rocket science. What part of my commentary has you confused?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It's a problem of taking the game for what it is, a MMO, but also a RPG. The concept console gamers have of RPGs are very different from what a pen and paper and PC MMORPG veteran have.
Some people here seem to think the MMORPG genre has been dumbed down by games like WoW, mostly the RPG part. Well, they have seen nothing. If the console crowd ever takes over the genre, you will know what dumbing down really means. No more roleplaying, no communication either, dungeons run 100% like single player mario bross levels, no player interaction other than bashing mobs to earn phat loot.
That's why I do not want to play my MMORPGs with console gamers. Would you talk about 3rd person shooters, or other arcade games, I wouldn't mind. But a MMORPG on a console is just a MMO, and no longer a RPG.
Pfft...I don't see how it could get much worse. Do you really think there's any relationship between the current version of WoW or something like Neverwinter and actual pen and paper RPGs? They are becoming more and more "console action arcade games" all the time. I could see something like Guild Wars 2 possibly working on a console with a little tweaking (and I don't even consider that a bad MMO) and as far as console kiddies being ruder or more annoying than the current "PC kiddies" that infest MMOs, I don't see that either.
But, if it is as bad as you say maybe this will finally force some new MMOs to go back to their RPG roots to capitalize on alienated players.
The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.
Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional.
Are you serious? It depends on the game. A controller is superior to kb/m in racing, fighting, platformers. Kb/m is superior when it comes to strategy, FPS, MMOs with a lot of skills in the hotbar. I can't just go and tank or heal on an endgame dungeon with a controller on a lot of MMOs.
They are very different input methods, of course they will give different experiences depending on the game. I use both controller and kb/m on my PC and switch between them depending on the game. One is not inherently inferior to the other in every case. It all depends on the type of game.
You possibly have been lucky with your guild there, but my experience with those games was pretty horrible - it made WoW's barren chat sound like a highly intellectual discussion between two scientists.
Hardware does correlate with personality, and I'm definitely not your "mate". Consoles = easily accessible, plug in and play. PC = harder to configure and to maintain properly (even if that has become easier past 2005). People with not a clue about how a computer works and who have a low education level play console games. Not saying that about people posting here, but in general.
Sorry, I don't enjoy the company of the "LOL WTF ROFLCOPTER" crowd, and console gamers would only make that even worse than it is today. I hope developers will keep servers separated, and I will petition for that on the forums of future games I'm interested in.
To make it clear, I don't talk about discrimination here. I have no problem with console gamers having access to MMORPGs too, as long as it doesn't mean the PC version being dumbed down to adapt to consoles. I just don't want those people in my community (=server), just as I don't want the nightclub crowd and its loud music to invade my favorite pub and it's celtic, jazz and rock music. Different people, different tastes, different places. I don't force people to come to my pub, and I won't accept people trying to force me to go to their nightclub. If a game tries that, I will just not give it any of my money.
Really? Saying console players are people with a low education........My son started playing on a PC when he was 5. That is some barrier you have. I also have plenty of developer / IT friends and old college buddies that would like to have a word with you as they prefer gaming on a console.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by khameleon As many can see by posts in every MMORPG forum whether current or future, PC gamers are all complaining and bored and have little hope for any MMORPG games. Why? They are burned out, they have been playing these games for 10-15+ years, many people put in 10+ hours a day every day for all that time too(as sick as that may seem, its common for an MMORPG gamer). So, its not the games that are bad, its the gamers that are just burned out.
Now comes along the PS4 and comes with it millions and millions of gamers that never have touched an MMORPG before as they play on consoles only many of them. The ones that have played MMORPGs probably have not been too "hardcore" into them because they play a lot on their PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. all those years.
DC Online, EQ Next, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online and many more will all be on the PS4. These games wil be something new, exciting and refreshing to the PS4 console crowd.
These games will be played on Big screen TVs and look awesome and play awesome as the PS4 while not as strong as a top gaming rig, will still play any current game at top settings and everyone will have the same hardware, nobody will be suffering from lag or crap settings while the guy next to him in game is on a better machine.
I really see the MMORPG genre growing and having a lot of excitement coming soon due to the infusion of console gamers and the games being played on the huge screens by a new group of players that are not going to be bored right away or come in burned out like most PC gamers are that join these games nowadays and complain from day 1.
I myself am a PC gamer for the most part over the past 5+ years, but I grew up on consoles and look forward to seeing the consoles join the MMO world and breathe life into a genre that PC gamers have pretty much given up on and taken for granted the last few years because of burn out.
Did you notice yourself saying PS1-2-3-4? So PS players are still fresh we PC gamers are burned out?
MMO's are not only games you can play on PC and not to mention MODS and so much more you can do with PC then LIMITED console.
No my friend becouse we complain about one genre MMO'S dont mean where burned out.
If genre produced CRAP dont mean gamers are burned out and it now just expand this CRAP to consoles HAVE FUN playing CRAP::P
Ill see you back in few months eat those words MARK MY WORDS:)
What im most affraid of is that mmo's will be DUMBED DOWN for the limited consoles and there awefull controlls(skyrim was made with console in mind but luckly we have mods to fix that in mmo's we dont have that luxery). I hope the stay seperate and developers still make MMO'S with mouse/keyboard and UI in mind.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by laseritWho in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard.
Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
Flight Simulators........ and that certainly isn't what you implied earlier. I do quote, "People with not a clue about how a computer works and who have a low education level play console games."
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Originally posted by khameleon As many can see by posts in every MMORPG forum whether current or future, PC gamers are all complaining and bored and have little hope for any MMORPG games. Why? They are burned out, they have been playing these games for 10-15+ years, many people put in 10+ hours a day every day for all that time too(as sick as that may seem, its common for an MMORPG gamer). So, its not the games that are bad, its the gamers that are just burned out.Now comes along the PS4 and comes with it millions and millions of gamers that never have touched an MMORPG before as they play on consoles only many of them. The ones that have played MMORPGs probably have not been too "hardcore" into them because they play a lot on their PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. all those years.DC Online, EQ Next, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online and many more will all be on the PS4. These games wil be something new, exciting and refreshing to the PS4 console crowd. These games will be played on Big screen TVs and look awesome and play awesome as the PS4 while not as strong as a top gaming rig, will still play any current game at top settings and everyone will have the same hardware, nobody will be suffering from lag or crap settings while the guy next to him in game is on a better machine. I really see the MMORPG genre growing and having a lot of excitement coming soon due to the infusion of console gamers and the games being played on the huge screens by a new group of players that are not going to be bored right away or come in burned out like most PC gamers are that join these games nowadays and complain from day 1.I myself am a PC gamer for the most part over the past 5+ years, but I grew up on consoles and look forward to seeing the consoles join the MMO world and breathe life into a genre that PC gamers have pretty much given up on and taken for granted the last few years because of burn out.
I don't know about this. It's not enough to just plop an MMORPG onto a console to get great effects. DCUO is already running on consoles and so is Defiance and we haven't seen great effects happening.
The games themselves will have to be exceptionally appealing to get console gamers to both stick with the game and to possibly pay a subscription fee. Skyrim is one example of a game that has long lasting appeal, but it is very much the exception. Outside of online PvP, most console games are completed within a weekend, and there's not much to show that most console gamers aren't happy with being able to finish most games in a weekend.
I would consider the PS4 more of an additional distribution channel for these MMORPGs, not something that's going to revolutionize the MMORPG landscape.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Ah, the mouse fling. A symbol of the superior gamer.
Well, that or a rabid squirrel is attacking whoever is at the computer.
EDIT: And Laser, I'm actually one of those nutty people that used wireless mice too for a long time. Got really fast at swapping the batteries in those things out of a frightful desperation to not die in the middle of a firefight.
Now I got my corded mouse with variable DPI and a sniper mode button.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
i own a ps3 and soon a ps4 as well. and i actually prefer the comfort of playing them better than I did on my desktop, which is a high end gaming computer as well.
as for communities, i think there are elitist jerks in both camps, but hey thats me.
One thing that bugs me though is some of you think that a person is inferior by playing on a console, well hate to burst your bubble, but that cant be farther from the truth. All my friends own consoles, gaming computers and make well over the average median wage .
in the end though, its the game not the platform that makes it worthwhile.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Holy Jumanji, someone sane! O_O
Burn the heretic!
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah, that is what the genre needs. More casual MMOs which can be played with a gamepad and minimal communication because most console gamers dont use a keyboard...
In other words. Action based with minimal social interaction and fast to cap because most console gamers dont spend more than a month or two on any game.
My gaming blog
How about developer's code the game to allow both consoles and PC's to use all types of devices and let player's choose the one that they prefer.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.
Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.
People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.
Because that just does NOT work. Balance wise.
Take two people, ask them to dig a hole, one having a rake, the other a shovel.
Same thing with controller vs mouse. Mouse will always be superior in a 3D game. And console gamers just don't use mice in their vast majority. Result? A poorly balanced MMORPG, with part of the population asking to nerf all those playing with a mouse.
Better solution: separate the servers. Consoles and PCs. Most problems avoided, and everyone is happy.
My computer is better than yours.
excuse my ignorance
What's a clicker? To me its the remote control for the tv.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I can do a rocket jump (targeting the floor) and then while flying target an opponent in a totally opposite direction above me instantly, without any delay, using a mouse. You just can't do that with a controller, you have delay.
Mouse reaction are just instant for a skilled user. Controllers can't be, by their very nature. They are designed for different gameplay. In any 3D game, a mouse is just vastly superior. Like a shovel is better to dig a hole than a rake.
My computer is better than yours.
I think the bigger question is not whether console is better or PC is better for mmo.
The bigger question is that isn't console already on it's way out? Does it still have a reason to exist?
With the advent of more powerful PDA phones and tablets that can do everything and even better graphics, and Android boxes that can easily be built with Android OS, why would still be worth the money for the console developer to still be making console?
Use other prebuilt OS and just make games and build boxes saves heaps more money.
I don't see proprietary OS consoles like PS4 or Xbox One lasting much longer... casual consoles like Wii? maybe, but even that can later on be replaced by easily doable Android boxes.
I think you will find that young people today are much more skilled with gamepads, mice and keyboards then you and I ever have been. Mine were pretty much born with them.
I find it astonishing how skilled my kids are with controller's, and they have had there own gaming PC's since they were 10 and 11 respectively.
I myself hate controllers, because quite frankly I suck with them.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
So yeah lets ignore, 2D games, and 2.5D for that matter. Sidescrollers, platformers, fighting games, 3rd person hack n slash, bemani style, racing sims and sports games.Then lets focus on games that were specifically developed for a mouse and keyboard.
Yeah your case is rock solid, bro.
You want to say FPS, RTS, traditional pc mmos, yeah you will get no argument here. But this whole all encompassing bs? [mod edit]
A clicker is someone who generally uses the mouse to select their abilities rather than using the hotbar/keyboard shortcuts.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.
Well I hope that doesn't happen. But if it does, at least we still have Nintendo haha
You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.
What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.
It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.
I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.
Ok...and? again, what is your bloody point? do you even know what we are discussing in this thread?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yeah whatever, oh Star Citizen on a console, I doubt it unless you come up with $25 mill from your spotty teenagers...Next they will be calling it PCSn5 Muhahahaha!!!!
Asbo
I refer to my first sentence.
And the thread is commenting on the PS4 as a MMO platform, the OP's commentary being a confusing mash about how upcoming titles have another chance at reigning in a broader crowd into the MMO genre via consoles.
Others commented on keeping console play separate due to personal or performance differences.
You made a claim about console play based on a single frame of reference, I gave counterpoint.
It's not rocket science. What part of my commentary has you confused?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Pfft...I don't see how it could get much worse. Do you really think there's any relationship between the current version of WoW or something like Neverwinter and actual pen and paper RPGs? They are becoming more and more "console action arcade games" all the time. I could see something like Guild Wars 2 possibly working on a console with a little tweaking (and I don't even consider that a bad MMO) and as far as console kiddies being ruder or more annoying than the current "PC kiddies" that infest MMOs, I don't see that either.
But, if it is as bad as you say maybe this will finally force some new MMOs to go back to their RPG roots to capitalize on alienated players.
Are you serious? It depends on the game. A controller is superior to kb/m in racing, fighting, platformers. Kb/m is superior when it comes to strategy, FPS, MMOs with a lot of skills in the hotbar. I can't just go and tank or heal on an endgame dungeon with a controller on a lot of MMOs.
They are very different input methods, of course they will give different experiences depending on the game. I use both controller and kb/m on my PC and switch between them depending on the game. One is not inherently inferior to the other in every case. It all depends on the type of game.
Consoles are now where P.Cs were 5 years ago.
Consoles make my eyes bleed...........
EWwwwww low resolution playing....
Current games;
Star treck online
Rift
Eve online
Firefall
Really? Saying console players are people with a low education........My son started playing on a PC when he was 5. That is some barrier you have. I also have plenty of developer / IT friends and old college buddies that would like to have a word with you as they prefer gaming on a console.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Did you notice yourself saying PS1-2-3-4? So PS players are still fresh we PC gamers are burned out?
MMO's are not only games you can play on PC and not to mention MODS and so much more you can do with PC then LIMITED console.
No my friend becouse we complain about one genre MMO'S dont mean where burned out.
If genre produced CRAP dont mean gamers are burned out and it now just expand this CRAP to consoles HAVE FUN playing CRAP::P
Ill see you back in few months eat those words MARK MY WORDS:)
What im most affraid of is that mmo's will be DUMBED DOWN for the limited consoles and there awefull controlls(skyrim was made with console in mind but luckly we have mods to fix that in mmo's we dont have that luxery). I hope the stay seperate and developers still make MMO'S with mouse/keyboard and UI in mind.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Flight Simulators........ and that certainly isn't what you implied earlier. I do quote, "People with not a clue about how a computer works and who have a low education level play console games."
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I don't know about this. It's not enough to just plop an MMORPG onto a console to get great effects. DCUO is already running on consoles and so is Defiance and we haven't seen great effects happening.
The games themselves will have to be exceptionally appealing to get console gamers to both stick with the game and to possibly pay a subscription fee. Skyrim is one example of a game that has long lasting appeal, but it is very much the exception. Outside of online PvP, most console games are completed within a weekend, and there's not much to show that most console gamers aren't happy with being able to finish most games in a weekend.
I would consider the PS4 more of an additional distribution channel for these MMORPGs, not something that's going to revolutionize the MMORPG landscape.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.