The "Hardcore"...

Slampig

So I logged onto the page and in the past 5 minutes or so I have seen three different posts crying about "carebears" and full loot and blah blah blah.

 

You all need to stop and just THINK for a minute instead of flooding the forums with post after post of the same monotonous crap.

 

If these "hardcore" full loot games were what people wanted then there would BE "hardcore" full loot games for people to play. 

Mr.Kujo

Originally posted by Slampig

If these "hardcore" full loot games were what people wanted then there would BE "hardcore" full loot games for people to play. 

People on this forums just fail to understand this one simple fact that every company in the world answers demand, so if there is no product that answers certain demands, it means that there was not enough demand to begin with. So in other words, there is no wave of successful hardcore games, because that guy, and his friend, and friend of his friend, and a bunch of other people on forums are the only group that wants this type of game. But it seems to be hard to accept by them.

Originally posted by Robokapp

Eve high-sec for example. ganking happens but it's safer than low/null/wh space unless you fly in something juicy. there's an immense crowd of crafers,t raders, pve'rs and otherwise non-pvp'ers that are fundamental to sustaining the economy for the pvp'ers. Simply put, the pvp'er will not be in belt for months mining to build his ship.

So what's the problem? recently MMOs failed to achieve this population stratification. Leninism happened. everyone equal, everyone after his own, everyone looking alike, playing alike, showing little care for anyone else. no elite class to be industrially supported by the peasant class...and with each peasant having his own farm, what's the point of an economy? everyone lives off his own land. The cries for an increas in hardcore support is not to create a full hardcore-only MMO, it's simply to shift games back into the balance.

I imagine an MMO would be ideal at 0.5% "world first race" extreme hardcore, maybe 10-15% at "not world first but as hard as we can"...and the rest at the "just for fun" level. the 'many' supply the few, the few transfer wealth down to the many. The fw are too few to self-sustain, the many are too inefficient to overflow the supply for the few. That's optimal.

Why does every one bring out EvE as example. It is a space game, and the only decent one at it. It basically has monopoly on people that like space exploration and mmo's, it will obviously have good player base.

How do you know that recent MMO's didn't achieve population stratification? How did you measure it? Where do you get your numbers? What type of mechanics changed the ratio in your opinion? I don't buy it. I don't see how anything changed. Maybe the fact, that more content is avaliable for every class, but the separation still exist and is visible. Just form changed. Leveling doesn't matter that much, since cap is for everyone, but to max everything a game has to offer is still left for hardcore players, and they are still dedicated to do so.

MMOredfalcon

Every MMO that comes out, even one with full loot PvP for the hardcore players...the Hardcores will still complain bout it. Kinda one of those 'facts of life' around here.

Helleri

It's like saying "If people really wanted money; Then every one would be rich."

The only kind of thread on here that I have come to dislike more then a flat out rant thread is thread ranting about rant threads.

Helleri

Originally posted by Slampig

If these "hardcore" full loot games were what people wanted then there would BE "hardcore" full loot games for people to play. 

It's like saying "If people really wanted more money; Then every one would be rich."

The only kind of thread on here that I have come to dislike more then a flat out rant thread is thread ranting about rant threads (regardless of how long or brief that contention may be).

iridescence

Originally posted by Robokapp

 

So what's the problem? recently MMOs failed to achieve this population stratification. Leninism happened. everyone equal, everyone after his own, everyone looking alike, playing alike, showing little care for anyone else. no elite class to be industrially supported by the peasant class...and with each peasant having his own farm, what's the point of an economy? everyone lives off his own land. The cries for an increas in hardcore support is not to create a full hardcore-only MMO, it's simply to shift games back into the balance.

 

 

This is an absolutely terrible analogy. Everyone *should* be equal in an MMO where everyone is paying the same (and in EVE everyone has equal opportunity no matter what you think. That "peasant" in high sec can PVP if that's what he decides he wants to do.). Most MMOs are more like a right wing caricature of a welfare state. No one wants to put effort into anything so most of the time the devs just give it to them. Then people complain because it turns out, having everything handed to you isn't actually very fun.

 

This idea, subscribed to heavily by Blizzard, is the real problem:  

http://www.eldergame.com/2011/06/world-vs-game-emergent-gameplay-and-the-fun-loop/

 

Also see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

 

Holophonist

Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

Originally posted by Slampig

If these "hardcore" full loot games were what people wanted then there would BE "hardcore" full loot games for people to play. 

People on this forums just fail to understand this one simple fact that every company in the world answers demand, so if there is no product that answers certain demands, it means that there was not enough demand to begin with. So in other words, there is no wave of successful hardcore games, because that guy, and his friend, and friend of his friend, and a bunch of other people on forums are the only group that wants this type of game. But it seems to be hard to accept by them.

The MMO genre is very young. It's still in flux. Not only that, it was heavily affected by WoW's success. That skewed the market towards easy, linear themeparks in an attempt to recreate that success.

5Luck

One of the only truly P2P games around is a FFA Full Loot Pvp game with an open world..

 

Go figure

Classicstar

I still play for most part like this, do you?

http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap10.htm

VicodinTaco

Oh come off it.

 

Think back to 2003 when 250,000 people were playing Ultima Online through their shitty AOL connection and tell me nobody wants this type of game play.  

 

Most of these people probably had to have two phone lines.